You seem to have high expectations from completely random players. My expectation is that they occasionally point their weapons toward enemy targets and know where the left mouse button is. I'm still disappointed more often that I'd like to be.

I really like tanking but
I prefer to avoid to be to selfless in PUGs doing dungeons.
There are no group buffs needed in dungeons.
Take your Worldboss build in there and do some damage for yourself.
If this doesn't work it is definitely not your fault.

Nestor wrote: »

Is this a:

I am better than everyone else thread?

or

No one is up to my standards thread?








5 Minutes to clear a dungeon? Video or did not happen.

All of the above.

MoreTune wrote: »

Full Group support tank here in perfected yolnahkrin and powerful assault.
I swap out encratis vs tremorscale based on group in dungeons.

My build literally focuses around buffing group dps and yet I’m stuck in dungeons holding aggro for 3-5 minutes per boss fight.

Meanwhile I swap to my dps toon and clear dungeons in 5 minutes.

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

I've never felt helpless as a tank (and I play a real one). So I can't relate to your post.

Maybe try building a more offensive tank for dungeons if not doing a lot of damage makes you feel so helpless. That's all I can think to say.

Simple thing, the group either has enought DPS to get through a dungeon fluidly or it doesnt. If it doesnt i simply go. Plain, Simple and Painless.

MoreTune wrote: »

The reason why people queue as fake tanks is because as a real tank you feel helpless. You just sit there holding block hoping that group dps isn’t subpar. But 75-80% of the time it is.

I think the conclusion is incorrect here.

If there were more capable DPS queuing as DPS then you would have had a better chance of getting one of them.

Poor gameplay experience as a tank is more likely one contributor to why there are few tanks in general in this game. The low percentage of real tanks then contributes to fake tanks existing at all.

Another one of these threads! Anyway,

There is a common misconception with players. They think because they are not a healer or a tank, that they are by default, a DPS, it's not true, you can also just be completely useless....

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Another one of these threads! Anyway,

There is a common misconception with players. They think because they are not a healer or a tank, that they are by default, a DPS, it's not true, you can also just be completely useless....

I'm sure you're joking, but being "useless" as a dps is still a dps. By definition, you will still be dealing damage regardless of whether you think it's a good amount of damage. The only way you wouldn't be a dps is if you're doing zero damage at all. Is that even possible considering this is a game built around killing things and to kill things you have to, you know, deal damage? That of course means that even if your level is low you will still do damage. It just may not be much damage.

zvavi wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Another one of these threads! Anyway,

There is a common misconception with players. They think because they are not a healer or a tank, that they are by default, a DPS, it's not true, you can also just be completely useless....

I'm sure you're joking, but being "useless" as a dps is still a dps. By definition, you will still be dealing damage regardless of whether you think it's a good amount of damage. The only way you wouldn't be a dps is if you're doing zero damage at all. Is that even possible considering this is a game built around killing things and to kill things you have to, you know, deal damage? That of course means that even if your level is low you will still do damage. It just may not be much damage.

This argument is one I heard many times. You are not a fake tank because you take damage even if you don't taunt bosses. You are not fake healer because your passives heals you therefore you have heals. /Sarcasm

It is not fair to expect things from tanks and healers. But expect nothing from dds. Dds are damage dealers. Their role is to deal lots of damage. Tanks roll is to control the battlefield. Healer's role is to support everyone as much as he can, including resources.
If you don't deal more damage than a tank in 3 support sets that applies crusher to boss and stacks adds, you are a fake dd.

That's called being an insufficient dps, not a fake dps. Fake implies queueing as something that you aren't. If your character can't do the things a healer or tank are specifically meant to do, that leaves them as a dps. A dps' role is literally to do damage, which every character does. Healers and tanks have other roles besides dealing damage, which is why queueing as either when your character literally isn't made to perform those roles makes you a fake healer or fake tank. That term doesn't work with dps because their role is literally just to attack. They'd be a fake dps if they did nothing but watch or run past everything.

Edit: People complain about fake healers and fake tanks, but they also complain about healers and tanks underperforming. Those are two separate complaints. An underperforming healer or tank isn't automatically a fake healer or tank. Therefore, an underperforming dps isn't a fake dps. They're just an underperforming dps.

Anyway, I guess we're arguing semantics here. I rarely have issues when doing dungeons. You guys just have awful luck, I guess. My dungeon runs go smooth 90% of the time, and the only times they don't are when we die a bunch to a boss that's meant to be difficult or if half the group leaves because they got put in a DLC dungeon, ignoring the fact that I had to wait 15-30 minutes to get into a single dungeon at all. I'm completely fine with dying to bosses. It's part of the game. Can't expect everything to be easy.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Another one of these threads! Anyway,

There is a common misconception with players. They think because they are not a healer or a tank, that they are by default, a DPS, it's not true, you can also just be completely useless....

I'm sure you're joking, but being "useless" as a dps is still a dps. By definition, you will still be dealing damage regardless of whether you think it's a good amount of damage. The only way you wouldn't be a dps is if you're doing zero damage at all. Is that even possible considering this is a game built around killing things and to kill things you have to, you know, deal damage? That of course means that even if your level is low you will still do damage. It just may not be much damage.

This argument is one I heard many times. You are not a fake tank because you take damage even if you don't taunt bosses. You are not fake healer because your passives heals you therefore you have heals. /Sarcasm

It is not fair to expect things from tanks and healers. But expect nothing from dds. Dds are damage dealers. Their role is to deal lots of damage. Tanks roll is to control the battlefield. Healer's role is to support everyone as much as he can, including resources.
If you don't deal more damage than a tank in 3 support sets that applies crusher to boss and stacks adds, you are a fake dd.

That's called being an insufficient dps, not a fake dps. Fake implies queueing as something that you aren't. If your character can't do the things a healer or tank are specifically meant to do, that leaves them as a dps. A dps' role is literally to do damage, which every character does. Healers and tanks have other roles besides dealing damage, which is why queueing as either when your character literally isn't made to perform those roles makes you a fake healer or fake tank. That term doesn't work with dps because their role is literally just to attack. They'd be a fake dps if they did nothing but watch or run past everything.

Edit: People complain about fake healers and fake tanks, but they also complain about healers and tanks underperforming. Those are two separate complaints. An underperforming healer or tank isn't automatically a fake healer or tank. Therefore, an underperforming dps isn't a fake dps. They're just an underperforming dps.

Anyway, I guess we're arguing semantics here. I rarely have issues when doing dungeons. You guys just have awful luck, I guess. My dungeon runs go smooth 90% of the time, and the only times they don't are when we die a bunch to a boss that's meant to be difficult or if half the group leaves because they got put in a DLC dungeon, ignoring the fact that I had to wait 15-30 minutes to get into a single dungeon at all. I'm completely fine with dying to bosses. It's part of the game. Can't expect everything to be easy.

I guess the question is where do you draw the line? If a full tank or full healer queued as DPS, I would say that’s as fake as a DPS queueing as tank or healer. Now maybe that tank or healer was going to pull 5k DPS. If another player joins on a non-tank non-healer build and does the same 5k DPS are they more legitimate in the role than the others?

Seems like all 3 options perform the role equally poorly. Just lacking tank or heal skills doesn’t make one a real DPS, and in this example I’d prefer having another support build if they’re doing the same damage. Maybe they’d bring more buffs/debuffs.

I guess that's fair. Honestly, this whole numbers thing is of little interest to me. I do what I can to get us through the dungeon and I don't die often. That's all that matters to me.

Well, there were azureblight tanks that could do at least enough dps. That's getting nerfed out of existence next patch though because Zos can't balance PvP.

I draw the line at "queue as DPS with S&B and proceed to taunt bosses" as fake DPS

^ actually happens

Stratloc wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Now, the times I feel helpless as a tank are when an untauntable red phase Centurion starts chasing a DD, who starts running and screaming "Tank?!! in chat. Believe me, I'd pull it off you if I could.

This made me think of the unpredictable mess that is the end boss in Arx... I get yelled at all the time.

Those fights where "the boss just does their own thing sometimes" are confusing for EVERYBODY who doesn't know the dungeon mechanics.

I remember tanking Arx Corinium the first couple times and having no idea what I (the tank) was doing wrong. Nope -- Sellistrex just does stuff.

She (randomly?) likes to charge after furthest targets but it's difficult to tell what exactly her range trigger is. I'm not even sure if that's the same random attack or not.

I've experimented (also as the tank) intentionally distancing myself from the group just to test whether she'd be more likely to charge at me. But Sellistrix still preferred the other party members in those cases.


A reduction in "WTF" mechanics would be another way to help improve people's willingness to tank. Or at least boost general understanding of what's going on.

I've said this before but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure: If you're tanking for a PUG and you know a boss is going to act funky, put it in chat. Never had people argue with me after I tell them exactly what's going to happen.