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Is it acceptable to play a healer anymore?

  • Lerozain
    Lerozain
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    madrab73 wrote: »
    DPS needs cut in half so PVE groups can't burn through all mechanics

    You say that, but trying to clear vSS / vCR / vMOL / vHOF or whatever with literally half the dps we have now is insane. Simply putting dps on the chopping block is not the answer.
  • darvaria
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    In normal mode, most ppl can solo non DLC dungeons.

    I never use my healing skills on normal except on a few DLC dungeons like March of Sacrifices or Moongrave.

    You don't need tanks either on non DLC, therefore the queing of so many fake tanks. I que as a healer on 6 templars almost daily to get the 100K exp. I do have one bar of healing basics, the other is dps.
    Edited by darvaria on May 18, 2021 7:22PM
  • Adaarye
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    Running random normals or random vets with pugs, at least 50% of my attempts, as a healer is a waste of time. Trials are okay from time to time, both vets and normal. I don't do those on a regular basis anymore either.

    Regarding not running dungeons .. I won't list the reasons. If you're a healer, you already know what the reasons are. I'm not sure why the game went the way it did, pretty much eliminating the need for healers in dungeons.

    Dungeons used to be my favorite part of the game, but not anymore. I'm now playing my DPS characters a lot more, soloing non DLC dungeons for exp and gear (BSW staff will be mine one day), doing solo arenas, overland questing and achievements, trading and housing.

    I'm having a lot more fun "as a healer" by not doing it, lol. :D

    (edit: I successfully played a healer main for quite some time. Have 27 "healer sets" all arena staves, etc. Vet dungeons (all Vet Dungeons, Vet trials .. have all clears other than vMoL)
    Edited by Adaarye on May 18, 2021 8:17PM
  • Jaimeh
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    Of course they are needed! For the majority of content and majority of groups. Maybe some tops players run 3 dd/1 tank for faster runs, and they usually have specialized set-ups where someone casts elemental drain, and the tank probably wears a major courage set, and runs fountain, etc., but they are the exception. This is usually because even a medium third DD will be better than a bad healer, and there's a lot of healers don't do proper buff/debuff, and don't keep good uptimes, so these groups, being experienced with avoiding damage and so on, will prefer the 3 DD combo. But that's not the majority of groups, especially in the group finder, and having a good healer, who knows how to properly use buffs/debuffs is always a good idea for 4-person runs, and of course mandatory for trials, and they are very much appreciated. Today, I did a vCR1 farm run on my healer and even though I don't normally heal a lot nowdays, I tried my best to keep uptimes, and afterwards I received a message from the other healer who was going over logs and complimented my healing/uptimes/CPM. Doing your role well never goes unnoticed, might not be as obvious as in the case of DDs, but I think you will be hard pressed to find people refusing a good healer in their group for harder content.
  • Xebov
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    I'm just curious since everyone seems to think that 3 DPS and 1 tank are needed. I only really want to play healers in group content but I want to know if I am actually needed.

    You are needed and wanted. If you get paired with a good tank there might just be little to do for you in some easier content which can be frustrating. Besides that welcome aboard.
  • Soraka
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    As someone who has always liked healing I find it sad to see how much the game has turned towards lack of needing healers. It also kind of seems like from what people say about companions that healer is one of the better specs for them, which I worry is going to make me even more useless. I wish we could dual spec so that I can have a better set up if I want to do dungeons without redoing everything and still be able to do overland content as DPS.
  • O_LYKOS
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    Personally i've ran dungeons with 3 or even 4 dps. If i group with friends then it's on us.
    If i pug a dungeon i expect the set positions to be filled. From experience this isnt always the case. Normals tend to have a fake tank. However when i've ran vet i dont often run in to fake positions.
    PC NA - GreggsSausageRoll
    Xbox NA - CinnamonRoll266
  • LettuceBrain
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    Soraka wrote: »
    As someone who has always liked healing I find it sad to see how much the game has turned towards lack of needing healers. It also kind of seems like from what people say about companions that healer is one of the better specs for them, which I worry is going to make me even more useless. I wish we could dual spec so that I can have a better set up if I want to do dungeons without redoing everything and still be able to do overland content as DPS.

    Yeah, the companions are starting to scare me. I'll probably just turn to soloing overland content and PvP if things get any worse for healers.
    they/them/theirs
  • ForeverJenn
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    I'm just curious since everyone seems to think that 3 DPS and 1 tank are needed. I only really want to play healers in group content but I want to know if I am actually needed.

    You are definitely needed. I'm incorporating plenty of self-healing morphs into my builds these days, because it's actually becoming something of a rare occurrence to recieve a bit of healing. If I had to guesstimate I'd say that for every ten random groups, there's one healer who makes me happy. Sometimes two.

    For example, it happens quite often that I'm finding myself catching a lot of aggro, not sure why but it happens too often! (Maybe I'm too trigger-happy?) It's because of this I've decided to sacrifice some DPS in order to increase survivability. (Because lying face-down on the floor gets boring quick!) So it wouldn't surprise me at all if other people have had similar ideas by now, but back to my original point..

    You, as the healer, may think you're no longer needed when you see me doing trashfights, but I can assure you I appreciate a proper burst of healing every now and then, because during some fights it's pretty stressful to stay alive *and* deal proper damage at the same time. (I'm a bit reckless sometimes and prefer melee!)

    You're needed and definitely appreciated. Don't let anyone else tell you differently.

    Keep up the good work!

    I've noticed that most of my Earthgore procs occur when a DD goes Leroying into a trash pack.

    Perhaps we've grouped together. Do you play on PC/NA? :D

    Lol. I stopped wearing Earthgore cause it only procs when you're forced to jump down a cliff and ppl take fall damage.
  • vgabor
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    fred4 wrote: »
    vDSA is actually my prime example as to why you may not want a healer. To this day, the only way I know to finish the final boss is by keeping him at the door, while the tank takes away the adds. I'm a PvPer who only goes for the weapons. It's a complete DPS race. The single biggest problem I have had in this fight, with multiple groups, is a lack of DPS. There may be other ways of doing it, but as a PvPer and someone who enjoys the solo arenas from time to time, I am most comfortable with self-healing, self-sustaining builds. These builds include more defense than a typical DD at the expense of a better attack rotation. I struggle to reach anything beyond 25K DPS, unless AOE. I don't make a separate build, but run my solo arena build. It seems to be the same for my friends, as I've done vDSA as a DD and as a tank with much the same problem. This is why, perhaps, the 3 DD setup suits me best for that arena.

    It's actually everything else where you better off with a 3rd dd, on the final boss a healers do well if they slot a taunt to tank and debuff the boss while the tank playing with the adds. If they can provide the major and minor breach plus crusher plus major courage while also healing the dds, then the two dd can go all out on dps and just burn the boss fast...
  • Nagastani
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    I'm just curious since everyone seems to think that 3 DPS and 1 tank are needed. I only really want to play healers in group content but I want to know if I am actually needed.

    So what you have stated here is correct.

    PvP really needs healers and support casters btw.

    As for PvE, the idea is to bring as much DPS to the table as possible to make the run shorter. I've said this ever since I started playing an MMO, that there is no substitute for good DPS.

    And if you find yourself in a pickle, on Scalecaller or Bloodforge or anything like that, you'll find that another good DPS brings more to the table than your average healer. Good DPS can unlock more doors and possibilities for you than a healer barely keeping you alive long enough to see the group fail.
  • fred4
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    darvaria wrote: »
    In normal mode, most ppl can solo non DLC dungeons.
    It's only the vet DLC dungeons you can't solo on the whole. Sure, there are unsoloable aspects to many dungeons, Direfrost (pressure plates), Fungal 2 (being quartered), Fang Lair (Ulfnor / Sabina dragging you), but a healer is not usually what you're stuck for. Simply another player, sometimes a tank, sometimes another DD (Valkyn Skoria). I soloed vet City of Ash 2 the other day and only Skoria stopped me. Oh, I died many times along the way, but could work out strategies, much as you work out strategies for the solo arenas. I run a Master's 2H stam DK Brawler for soloing. It's a rounded build that will carry any group, except for vet DLC dungeons.

    On the other hand, what I do is only one way to skin the cat. That it's possible, these days, to be so well-rounded, well, it's what brings up the OP's question, right? For the record, I think it's totally acceptable to play a healer. For one thing my DK self-buffs to 6K weapon damage, but I've sat at over 8K in groups. The main thing, though, is that a healer allows DDs to go all out on damage. A traditional DD has higher damage and is squishier than a PvPer / solo player, like me.

    In other words, it really depends on the group. In a premade, a healer can absolutely be useful. In a PUG you never know what you're going to get. PUGs succeed or fail for all sorts of reasons, not having a good healer being one. I've been outclassed as a DD, felt useful as a tank in some, redundant in others. I don't play healers, but I imagine it's the same, right? When I started ESO, I remember the healer telling us what to do and pulling us through in the Fungal 2 final fight (roughly at what is now vet mode). Still a place I wouldn't say no to a healer, even if it seems easier now.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Adaarye
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    Nagastani wrote: »
    I'm just curious since everyone seems to think that 3 DPS and 1 tank are needed. I only really want to play healers in group content but I want to know if I am actually needed.

    So what you have stated here is correct.

    PvP really needs healers and support casters btw.

    As for PvE, the idea is to bring as much DPS to the table as possible to make the run shorter. I've said this ever since I started playing an MMO, that there is no substitute for good DPS.

    And if you find yourself in a pickle, on Scalecaller or Bloodforge or anything like that, you'll find that another good DPS brings more to the table than your average healer. Good DPS can unlock more doors and possibilities for you than a healer barely keeping you alive long enough to see the group fail.

    I wonder what ZoS is going to do, in the long run, to correct this problem for healers, that is if the devs see this is a problem. They may not. I've not seen the situation mentioned other than pale order is being nerfed and I believe companions have been scaled down pre-release.

    I don't know. I'm still boggling as to how fast the group dynamic has changed at the expense of the healer class and how and if things are even able to be rolled back to how they were before.
  • jane_01215
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    Adaarye wrote: »
    Nagastani wrote: »
    I'm just curious since everyone seems to think that 3 DPS and 1 tank are needed. I only really want to play healers in group content but I want to know if I am actually needed.

    So what you have stated here is correct.

    PvP really needs healers and support casters btw.

    As for PvE, the idea is to bring as much DPS to the table as possible to make the run shorter. I've said this ever since I started playing an MMO, that there is no substitute for good DPS.

    And if you find yourself in a pickle, on Scalecaller or Bloodforge or anything like that, you'll find that another good DPS brings more to the table than your average healer. Good DPS can unlock more doors and possibilities for you than a healer barely keeping you alive long enough to see the group fail.

    I wonder what ZoS is going to do, in the long run, to correct this problem for healers, that is if the devs see this is a problem. They may not. I've not seen the situation mentioned other than pale order is being nerfed and I believe companions have been scaled down pre-release.

    I don't know. I'm still boggling as to how fast the group dynamic has changed at the expense of the healer class and how and if things are even able to be rolled back to how they were before.

    If 90% of player base are damage dealers, it may be wise to satisfy their needs at the potential expense of the minority.
    Sad but perhaps it's the reality that we need to adapt to.
    Edited by jane_01215 on May 19, 2021 3:01AM
  • madrab73
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    Lerozain wrote: »
    madrab73 wrote: »
    DPS needs cut in half so PVE groups can't burn through all mechanics

    You say that, but trying to clear vSS / vCR / vMOL / vHOF or whatever with literally half the dps we have now is insane. Simply putting dps on the chopping block is not the answer.

    Players cleared VMOL with half the DPS we have now. They just needed to be good rather than carried by high DPS.
  • Adaarye
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    If 90% of player base are damage dealers, it may be wise to satisfy their needs at the potential expense of the minority.
    Sad but perhaps it's the reality that we need to adapt to.

    For sure. If ZoS is happy with that and they support phasing out healers in 4 man content to keep DPS soothed and spending, then that's what they are going to do.

    There will still be backlash though. Believe it or not, a lot of people enjoy playing the healer class and have spend hours and hours farming support gear. Most healers have a lot of time and effort invested in the class.

    I spend maybe a quarter of the crowns I used to spend in game when I could get a decent vet pug with my three healers. My husband buys no crowns at all. He's already pretty much migrated to another game. We used to spend a lot of money in ESO.

    No more. No more crowns for notable houses, furniture packs, style pages .. I do have one more thing I will buy with crowns. I'll be adding just enough crowns to add to what I currently have to purchase new trial dummy unless she's locked behind a gem wall. I don't buy crown crates any longer. I am speaking with my wallet. As you say, it most likely won't make a difference as DPS seems to be the dominant class currently.

    I now have so much time as a non-healer, lol, I've made enough gold to support my vice .. housing. I've purchased several large ones with gold. I don't intend to buy anymore crowns until/if things get back to how they were before pale order and the self heal CP. I don't want to tie up more cash in a game that I may well be leaving. I purchased two new games to try with the money I would have spent for crowns before all this.

    All that said, I have been having fun trading and making gold. It's keeping me busy during the "lets wait and see what Blackwood is going to bring" period. But honestly, my new play style doesn't have a long shelf life :( .
    Edited by Adaarye on May 19, 2021 8:35AM
  • The_Lex
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    I really wish that ZOS would have created a separate tree, either within the Red or Blue trees, that was dedicated solely for healing, tanking, and support. Remove the ability (or make it difficult) for DPS to spend points into healing, tanking, or other more focused support skills.

    But, I am quite sure that was proposed as an option in their CP 2.0 planning meetings. It was obviously rejected, which tells me that pure healing may be phased out in favor of a generalized support/off healing/off DSP role.

    Edited by The_Lex on May 19, 2021 12:55PM
  • AcadianPaladin
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    Though primarily a healer, being able to enjoy solo play is more important to me. If healers become limited (like tanks are) to slowly slogging through solo content, I'll be done with healing. There in lies the rub. I think tanks are the least popular because they are the least enjoyable to solo. Then healers, then dps. Overspecializing any of the roles will kill solo play. A dd who cannot effectively self-heal? A healer or tank who cannot effectively do damage? No thanks.

    PvE soloists represent a large number of players and must build for survival, sustain and damage - in that order. That is, they have to 'do it all'.
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on May 19, 2021 4:11PM
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • flyingduchess
    Personally speaking I do think healers add a lot to 4-man content. I mean sure, I'm pretty spoiled because I do pledges and everything with my very capable guildies and I don't have to bother with pugging, but there aren't a lot of players where a 3 DD run will go more smoothly than a 1T-1H-2DD setup. Things can get messy the moment you get to a spicy bit, or it's just literally slower because they have to bother with self-heals and that's damage lost.

    I mainly tank and heal at the moment, and I do find that setups like Olo/SPC + something like idk Master Architect boost the DPS enough that it'll be preferable to a 3rd DD there. Which honestly goes for mid-range DDs whose dps might be more around 60k *as well as* DDs whose deeps are more around 95k. I'm sure I don't have to explain that in the last case even just the 5% extra damage from minor berserk makes more of a difference there than for the former.

    Can you complete most HMs in dungeons without a healer? Sure. But in my experience it's not true that having a healer there will mean it'll take longer.
  • Jem_Kindheart
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    Astrid wrote: »
    svendf wrote: »
    Astrid wrote: »
    Unless it’s moongrave HM due to healing debuff or Stone garden HM to babysit your tank, dungeons it’s a no. 3 dd and a tank running Olorime is far far easier. PvP and trials, healers are absolutely viable and good ones are very sought after : )

    Look at the post above your´s. This poster is both wise and have knowledge. That 3rd dd may be a good idea as you most of the time have to spam selfheals and looses dps - maybe I missed the line, where dd´s also equip sets to buff the group.

    Do not misunderstand me here. Im not saying you and your grroup/groups or mates can´t do it. What I try to say it´s maybe it´s a good idea too add to your post that this can only be done by the "few". same as going in with 4 tanks, with low dps in some vet dungeons, which I don´tt recomment if you don´t have the knowledge.

    It is allway´s a good idea to remind some folks, that these kind of grouping´s isn´t for every one, but can be tried out on preformed groups.

    Three dd´s form a group for a vet dlc or norm dlc pledge or just to farm, one skip the healer que and the cool kids zone in and wait for the pug tank. I know in most cases this will end up as an wipe party or tank will leave after first trash pull as something is misssing.

    I have seen at first hand dds spaming heals to the point, where there is no reason to stay in group. As a healer I pay much attention to the tank role and if it´s a fake tank it´s just bye, bye. Just reminding you we are talking pugs, right ? Not preformed.

    As a dd I would do the same and if im on one of my dds and se fake tank and healer in same group it´s just bye. Im not in a dungeon to spam selfheals, Im there as a dps.

    If the cool kids wanna do these kind of things, they should form a premade group and take it from there and actually give them a positive result as a bonus.

    These kind of runs is not for every one, wwhich I feel you should have added.

    Thank You

    I’m literally a healer main, and it’s what i love to do more than anything. But once you hit a certain point you’re just losing damage having a healer there, you don’t/barely play mechanics with 3 dds you just straight nuke majority of content.
    There’s nothing “cool” about this, it’s just more efficient. I’ve healed dungeons that don’t necessarily need one and i am bored to literal tears. Yes it’s not for everyone, and it’s mostly not recommended in a PUG (which are notorious for all bad roles and even fake roles). But getting together a group of people who are capable, you’re better off 3 dd for speed and efficiency. You’re not even spamming heals, just don’t be stupid, let the tank do their job and nuke it. If you wanna PUG stuff with questionable tanks/dds, sure a healer is likely your best bet and you can stand and heal people through their own mistakes for 12 years.

    So you admitted that I was right calling out your first point as incorrect LOL
    Longtimer since beta, the usual. 26 CP toons. ~1700cp on main account, 1000cp on 2nd account. Endgame-ish lol. Most Vets / some HM's cleared.
  • Nagastani
    Nagastani
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    Adaarye wrote: »
    Nagastani wrote: »
    I'm just curious since everyone seems to think that 3 DPS and 1 tank are needed. I only really want to play healers in group content but I want to know if I am actually needed.

    So what you have stated here is correct.

    PvP really needs healers and support casters btw.

    As for PvE, the idea is to bring as much DPS to the table as possible to make the run shorter. I've said this ever since I started playing an MMO, that there is no substitute for good DPS.

    And if you find yourself in a pickle, on Scalecaller or Bloodforge or anything like that, you'll find that another good DPS brings more to the table than your average healer. Good DPS can unlock more doors and possibilities for you than a healer barely keeping you alive long enough to see the group fail.

    I wonder what ZoS is going to do, in the long run, to correct this problem for healers, that is if the devs see this is a problem. They may not. I've not seen the situation mentioned other than pale order is being nerfed and I believe companions have been scaled down pre-release.

    I don't know. I'm still boggling as to how fast the group dynamic has changed at the expense of the healer class and how and if things are even able to be rolled back to how they were before.

    Right. Pale Order basically makes healers obsolete on much of the 4 man content. In PvP obviously this is going to be totally different.

    Which is a catch-22 for so many ppl who pride themselves as accomplished healers in their Guild or on the forums even and now their role is being replaced by another DPS. Which is why things like Templar and Warden are so *perfect* for PvP groups.

    Hah... guess everyone only has themselves to blame now huh? :)
    Edited by Nagastani on May 29, 2021 12:14AM
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