As already somewhat mentioned herein, the issue is that we only have 4 man groups. The ratio of tanks vs healers vs damage dealers is basically 1:1:2 respectively. Other MMORPGs have 5 or even 6-man groups, which makes the ratio much more favorable for damage dealers. I am not saying this is the only cause, but it seems to be the main one. If you take a random sample of 100 players, in ESO, 25 of them must be tanks, 25 healers and 50 damage dealers to get instant queues. With 5-man groups the ratio is 20 tanks, 20 healers and 60 damage dealers, and in 6-man groups its only 16 tanks, 16 healers, and 67 damage dealers.
I dont know much work it would require to change all dungeons into 5 man fights, but it would certainly help the queues and would align the dungeon T:H:DD ratio with the trial one.
As already somewhat mentioned herein, the issue is that we only have 4 man groups. The ratio of tanks vs healers vs damage dealers is basically 1:1:2 respectively. Other MMORPGs have 5 or even 6-man groups, which makes the ratio much more favorable for damage dealers. I am not saying this is the only cause, but it seems to be the main one. If you take a random sample of 100 players, in ESO, 25 of them must be tanks, 25 healers and 50 damage dealers to get instant queues. With 5-man groups the ratio is 20 tanks, 20 healers and 60 damage dealers, and in 6-man groups its only 16 tanks, 16 healers, and 67 damage dealers.
I dont know much work it would require to change all dungeons into 5 man fights, but it would certainly help the queues and would align the dungeon T:H:DD ratio with the trial one.
Any magic DD can heal, now if you heal hard vet trials you probably have an setup who is not optimal for DD but no issues in dungeons but guess you could still pull impressive numbers in an dungeon.ResidentContrarian wrote: »Blame the fact that tanking and healing are two roles that:
1. Aren't really enjoyable
2. Aren't really needed the more experienced players get (thank hard DPS checks, one shots, etc.)
3. Aren't good outside a group
4. Require more gear sets than damage roles
5. Aren't really that good in PvP
6. Ultimately aren't profitable, esp. when paired with terrible damage dealers
The sad reality is that healing and tanking is a role that isn't emphasized properly by the game developers at this stage in the game and it won't be for some time. The game emphasizes doing damage too much, and thus the end result is that players emphasize it too.
Veinblood1965 wrote: »OK I've played healers and tanks and those are great almost instant queue but playing a dps and queuing just plain sucks. Waiting 20 to 30 minutes to get a group, or waiting that long and the system just unques you for no reason(this has happened a few times in the last week btw), or zoning and just as you zone you get the queue invite only to have it gone and you have to requeue again after you zone and so on and so on.
Something is broken with the group finder anyway. Last night i queued for Stone Garden normal. I waited about 40 minutes and nothing. I finally just soloed a normal dungeon and requed and within ten minutes had the invite. Then of all things my daily random ended up being Stone Garden right after that which was about a 20 minute wait.
Just tossing out some ideas here but anything is better than this as a DPS. (And yes I could play my healer or tank but this is my new toon). How about normal dungeon option with no healer or tank, just take your chances. I can pretty much solo most of those anyway except those that require a group like Direfrost due to mechanics etc. Or even two man option? Make the dungeons a little harder in that case. Not the best options I'll admit but this is getting OLD fast. I was semi fine with it until the bug started happening where you get unqueued for no reason at all just a BUG!.
RANT OVER now back to regularly scheduled programming.
It's because there is a severe shortage of players who play as tanks, even more so on this game than is usual for an MMORPG. They need to stop nerfing tanks, and start taking their problems seriously (like pets blocking their view so they can't watch for animations to block etc.). This game neglects tanks and actively works to make them secondary to DPS characters, so it really isn't any wonder when people stop playing them. Maybe when the precious DPS characters can't get into queues they will finally start taking this issue seriously and start paying some needed attention to tanks except when it comes to nerfing them so DPS classes can kill the more easily. Because that's usually the only time they pay any attention to them.
So keep threads like this coming.
Since when did tanks get nerfed? Tanking since CP 2.0 is as buffed as it's ever been. Yeah, pets can be a bit annoying but hardly game breaking is it...
The queue system is just supply and demand though. If you want to go on the most popular ride at Disney World, you'll be queuing for 4 hours sometimes. If you want to go on the Carousel of Progress you get on in 5 minutes. Same with DPSing, everyone wants to do it so expect a longer queue; tanks (and healers) are in constant demand so they get a nice short queue. (For what it's worth, I play both DPS and tank, and I love the Carousel of Progress just as much as the new rides.)
I don't think having wildcard queues is a good idea. It might work with some groups in some dungeons but it will significantly increase the chances of a really bad experience. I mean, it's not as if people aren't fake roling anyway but at least at the moment they hopefully feel a bit of shame about it XD
If you queue for a random that gives the shortest queue anyway (as well as the transmutes).
The fix for the que times in the LFG tool is obviously tanking incentives like getting additional rewards for tanking a vet dungeon daily, etc. I created a post about this already and most people didn't want tanks to get any additional incentives. If ZOS can't make tanking more desirable then people won't play it.
PigofSteel wrote: »Well i took my old tank out and got instant dungeons but boy o boy the dps was so low that i thought i do more damage with my heavy attacks, and im talking about people with like 800CP +...
Less play people tank or healer.
Because for most people, they're boring roles. You can get by on them without doing much if you want. People think tanking is taunt and hold block, which is boring. Not enough people have a rotation which helps the group in some way.
I enjoy tanking, especially with how I've set up a saptank which also does damage.
But most people just like doing DPS.
Don't know how you fix it to be honest. If you force tanking/healing to require move rotations and needing more input, it might just put other players off entirely.
Thechuckage wrote: »Additionally, separate PvE/PvP balance. Unkillable tank in dungeon or trial = Awesome! Unkillable tank in Cyro = BS class, NERF!!!
This goes hand in hand with no longer catering to DPS races. As long as mechanics can be bypassed by sufficient damage, tanks and healers will always be less desirable.
Unkillable tanks in PVE isn't awesome.
It makes tanking stupidly boring and too easy.
That's why I don't think nerfs to heavy armour/health based health/mitigation a bad thing.
You have to be more on your toes to tank, which makes the role more engaging.
ThePianist wrote: »Veinblood1965 wrote: »OK I've played healers and tanks and those are great almost instant queue but playing a dps and queuing just plain sucks. Waiting 20 to 30 minutes to get a group, or waiting that long and the system just unques you for no reason(this has happened a few times in the last week btw), or zoning and just as you zone you get the queue invite only to have it gone and you have to requeue again after you zone and so on and so on.
Something is broken with the group finder anyway. Last night i queued for Stone Garden normal. I waited about 40 minutes and nothing. I finally just soloed a normal dungeon and requed and within ten minutes had the invite. Then of all things my daily random ended up being Stone Garden right after that which was about a 20 minute wait.
Just tossing out some ideas here but anything is better than this as a DPS. (And yes I could play my healer or tank but this is my new toon). How about normal dungeon option with no healer or tank, just take your chances. I can pretty much solo most of those anyway except those that require a group like Direfrost due to mechanics etc. Or even two man option? Make the dungeons a little harder in that case. Not the best options I'll admit but this is getting OLD fast. I was semi fine with it until the bug started happening where you get unqueued for no reason at all just a BUG!.
RANT OVER now back to regularly scheduled programming.
It's because there is a severe shortage of players who play as tanks, even more so on this game than is usual for an MMORPG. They need to stop nerfing tanks, and start taking their problems seriously (like pets blocking their view so they can't watch for animations to block etc.). This game neglects tanks and actively works to make them secondary to DPS characters, so it really isn't any wonder when people stop playing them. Maybe when the precious DPS characters can't get into queues they will finally start taking this issue seriously and start paying some needed attention to tanks except when it comes to nerfing them so DPS classes can kill the more easily. Because that's usually the only time they pay any attention to them.
So keep threads like this coming.
Since when did tanks get nerfed? Tanking since CP 2.0 is as buffed as it's ever been. Yeah, pets can be a bit annoying but hardly game breaking is it...
The queue system is just supply and demand though. If you want to go on the most popular ride at Disney World, you'll be queuing for 4 hours sometimes. If you want to go on the Carousel of Progress you get on in 5 minutes. Same with DPSing, everyone wants to do it so expect a longer queue; tanks (and healers) are in constant demand so they get a nice short queue. (For what it's worth, I play both DPS and tank, and I love the Carousel of Progress just as much as the new rides.)
I don't think having wildcard queues is a good idea. It might work with some groups in some dungeons but it will significantly increase the chances of a really bad experience. I mean, it's not as if people aren't fake roling anyway but at least at the moment they hopefully feel a bit of shame about it XD
If you queue for a random that gives the shortest queue anyway (as well as the transmutes).
Since when did tanks get nerfed? You must be joking.
ThePianist wrote: »Veinblood1965 wrote: »OK I've played healers and tanks and those are great almost instant queue but playing a dps and queuing just plain sucks. Waiting 20 to 30 minutes to get a group, or waiting that long and the system just unques you for no reason(this has happened a few times in the last week btw), or zoning and just as you zone you get the queue invite only to have it gone and you have to requeue again after you zone and so on and so on.
Something is broken with the group finder anyway. Last night i queued for Stone Garden normal. I waited about 40 minutes and nothing. I finally just soloed a normal dungeon and requed and within ten minutes had the invite. Then of all things my daily random ended up being Stone Garden right after that which was about a 20 minute wait.
Just tossing out some ideas here but anything is better than this as a DPS. (And yes I could play my healer or tank but this is my new toon). How about normal dungeon option with no healer or tank, just take your chances. I can pretty much solo most of those anyway except those that require a group like Direfrost due to mechanics etc. Or even two man option? Make the dungeons a little harder in that case. Not the best options I'll admit but this is getting OLD fast. I was semi fine with it until the bug started happening where you get unqueued for no reason at all just a BUG!.
RANT OVER now back to regularly scheduled programming.
It's because there is a severe shortage of players who play as tanks, even more so on this game than is usual for an MMORPG. They need to stop nerfing tanks, and start taking their problems seriously (like pets blocking their view so they can't watch for animations to block etc.). This game neglects tanks and actively works to make them secondary to DPS characters, so it really isn't any wonder when people stop playing them. Maybe when the precious DPS characters can't get into queues they will finally start taking this issue seriously and start paying some needed attention to tanks except when it comes to nerfing them so DPS classes can kill the more easily. Because that's usually the only time they pay any attention to them.
So keep threads like this coming.
Since when did tanks get nerfed? Tanking since CP 2.0 is as buffed as it's ever been. Yeah, pets can be a bit annoying but hardly game breaking is it...
The queue system is just supply and demand though. If you want to go on the most popular ride at Disney World, you'll be queuing for 4 hours sometimes. If you want to go on the Carousel of Progress you get on in 5 minutes. Same with DPSing, everyone wants to do it so expect a longer queue; tanks (and healers) are in constant demand so they get a nice short queue. (For what it's worth, I play both DPS and tank, and I love the Carousel of Progress just as much as the new rides.)
I don't think having wildcard queues is a good idea. It might work with some groups in some dungeons but it will significantly increase the chances of a really bad experience. I mean, it's not as if people aren't fake roling anyway but at least at the moment they hopefully feel a bit of shame about it XD
If you queue for a random that gives the shortest queue anyway (as well as the transmutes).
Since when did tanks get nerfed? You must be joking.
if you're queued for more than 15 minutes requeue and one should pop-up soon. Also, if you queue for a specific dungeon expect your times to be longer. Big tip: find some guildies or even zone chat players to give you a hand...get a few in the group and the remaining roles should fill up quicker for you.
Good luck OP!
Thechuckage wrote: »Additionally, separate PvE/PvP balance. Unkillable tank in dungeon or trial = Awesome! Unkillable tank in Cyro = BS class, NERF!!!
This goes hand in hand with no longer catering to DPS races. As long as mechanics can be bypassed by sufficient damage, tanks and healers will always be less desirable.
Unkillable tanks in PVE isn't awesome.
It makes tanking stupidly boring and too easy.
That's why I don't think nerfs to heavy armour/health based health/mitigation a bad thing.
You have to be more on your toes to tank, which makes the role more engaging.
Veinblood1965 wrote: »Just an update. I have gotten so tired of the issues with getting kicked out of the queue I dusted off my dk tank and have been playing him for a few days. As a tank of course I get instant queue times but there have been several times where someone else didn't accept the queue invite and instead of just requeing I got "You have been removed from the queue because someone declined the invite" or some words to that effect. This is what has happened on my dps toon which after 20 to 30 minute wait times is NOT fun.