ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

It never ends...

definitely seems like a lot of community outrage is misdirected just because a class is overpowered in an area or 2 so they attack several aspects of the class even if that particular aspect is not even broken in of itself, but rather, just because the class is strong, this line of thought is incredibly unhealthy for balance. but it's not as if you can ask everyone to think logically about the design of a class.

Well said.

Enlightened game design balances the powerful features a given unit-to-balance with other features that counter it. This contrasts with the relatively mindless approach toward game design that seeks to smash down any features that stand above the rest until every unit-to-balance is exactly the same.

Unfortunately, many, especially when they lose in PvP, instinctively gravitate toward the latter. It is my belief that most nerf threads are created as a continuation of the lost battle, one last play for revenge. The forums and these threads become, to abuse Clausewitz, PvP by other means.

Skoomah wrote: »

Necromancer's Goliath Form ultimate skill is so powerful. It lasts 20 seconds (one of the longest lasting ultimates), increases HP to god mode level (equal to fighting two player's health pools in one, increasing survivability equal to DK's Corrosive Armor Ultimate), heals a player to full (equal to a Restoration Skill Line Ultimate), deals tons of aoe damage and heals equal to the damage output (equal to DK's Standard of Might Ultimate's damage and Rapid Regen Skill's heal over time). Also, given the fact that this ultimate can be up and ready to go again every 90 seconds or so, it's a bit overpowered.

Also, let me add that, 20 seconds in PVP is an ETERNITY.

Who wants to fight against this? Not many people... so the PVP community is shrinking by the day.

What are you going to do about it ZOS?

Arent you the guy who's played carry wolf for literal years now? XD

How about not standing next to it? It's fine as is. Stop asking for nerfs!

Ryuvain wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Vampire lord and goliath are balanced, you can’t regen ult while its up and you just need to kit it for 20 seconds and its over, if any transformation ult is overpowered its werewolf, the thing can literally last indefinitely in combat.

Shantu wrote: »

It never ends...

Seriously. Werewolves were already nerfed and aren't even tanky. They also can't use ults. The trauma must be real.

No purge, no range, basic armor, no ult, no back bar...

Hardly nerfed in the grand scheme of how the entire game changed at the same time, you saying 1 bar like its a negative, many werewolf players aren’t capable of utilising 2 bars anyway. On live they have huge damage output with malacath, huge and easy regen with engine guardian, a hard CC, an execute, a gapclose all on 1 bar, couple with 45k health and crimson and you have the survivability of a tank with almost a magsorc spamming streaks mobility in sprint speed bonuses and enough damage to kill most players 1v1 and easily Xv1 even the most competent players with 0 chance of getting burst down in an Xv1 scenario, and thats a terrible player playing one, a good 1vXer has an absolute field day. Not bad for a build that has 1 bar and basically auto heals.

Pepegrillos wrote: »

Could you elaborate on the idea that clown form is a product of enlightened game design, and how it has been balanced (by introducing counters to it, for example)?

"But you can counter it by waiting there doing nothing until your zerg shows up!"

Pepegrillos wrote: »

It's not a bit overpowered: it's broken, which doesn't mean it's the only one around in that state.

I don't remember any other ability, in any mmorpg I've played, that works both as an "oh ***" skill and a gross enhancer of your overall survival and damage capabilities simultaneously. An ability should either save you from dying (Undo), massively enhance your survival (SB ult), or enhance your damage (Onslaught?). Perhaps you could have two of those (Corrosive), but all three at the same time?

There's other ultimates in the game that provide buffs that work in the same manner that goliath does that you described here. The dual wield ultimate, it does a massive DoT tick on your target and it heals at the same time. Therefore it has both offensive and defensive capabiities. Especiall the thrive in chaos morph.
Ability description:
Slash enemies in front of you, causing them to bleed for 9170 Bleed Damage over 8 seconds and healing you for 50% of the damage done. Each enemy hit increases your damage done by 6% for the duration. This effect can stack up to 6 times. This ability has potential to return 50% of the damage dealt to targets and it's an AoE damage over time ability. The dot usually ticks for 2.5k ticks every second when I've used it before. And then the damage done increase makes thel dot tick for even more and as the ability states, more damage = more healing.

Literally any transformation is another ability that increases survivability and damage simulatenously. Vampire, werewolf. Especially werewolf because you can potentially stay in werewolf indefinitely despite it having a time limit on it.

Corrosive armor/magma shell like you said, however corrosive is way stronger because it gives outright damage mitigation instead of health. The necro goliath only gives health and a strong heal/dot attached to it but it doesn't increase your tankiness at all. If you were squishy beforehand, you will still be squishy even with 50k hp in goliath. Whereas corrossive gives you outright damage mitigation, limiting incoming damage which potentially gimps any ultimate someone tries using on you to negligible damage. Not only that, it deals damage and with DK earthern heart passives where they get 46 tri stats per ultimate cost, so it's a heal, resource pool restore, gives damage mitigation, deals damage over time that can't be purged(because the dot is centered around the caster), and direct damage ignores physical resistance outright.

Let's not forget the broken ability wardens have: arctic blast which is literally a damage over time, heal over time, burst heal, and stun all wrapped into one ability. Which like you stated increases survivability and gives you increased damage through DoT ticks. All those buffs and it's not even an ultimate

I'm not arguing for or against your PoV however goliath is hardly the only ability in the game that gives similar functionality that you think is problematic

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Vampire lord and goliath are balanced, you can’t regen ult while its up and you just need to kit it for 20 seconds and its over, if any transformation ult is overpowered its werewolf, the thing can literally last indefinitely in combat.

Shantu wrote: »

It never ends...

Seriously. Werewolves were already nerfed and aren't even tanky. They also can't use ults. The trauma must be real.

No purge, no range, basic armor, no ult, no back bar...

Hardly nerfed in the grand scheme of how the entire game changed at the same time, you saying 1 bar like its a negative, many werewolf players aren’t capable of utilising 2 bars anyway. On live they have huge damage output with malacath, huge and easy regen with engine guardian, a hard CC, an execute, a gapclose all on 1 bar, couple with 45k health and crimson and you have the survivability of a tank with almost a magsorc spamming streaks mobility in sprint speed bonuses and enough damage to kill most players 1v1 and easily Xv1 even the most competent players with 0 chance of getting burst down in an Xv1 scenario, and thats a terrible player playing one, a good 1vXer has an absolute field day. Not bad for a build that has 1 bar and basically auto heals.

You know that base classes can do the exact same with that setup right? Most of that is procs doing your work for you. You're saying a class can't slot a gapcloser, execute, cc, and mobility on one bar? They have two bars.

Wolves still lose to cc and have no purge or range. Base classes are better imo. Haven't seen any problematic wolves in PvP recently. They usually die faster than before they transformed. I don't do bgs though, so no comment there.

Malacath is still the biggest problem on live. It enables the dumbest builds that are used by anyone.

I'm guessing you weren't here when Necro was first introduced. THAT was overpowered. Now? It's a joke.

BlueRaven wrote: »

How about moving out of range of the ultimate? If you are standing in range of a 20sec ultimate the whole time...

Also, STOP ASKING FOR NERFS!!

By standard, in these asking-for-nerfs-threads, the 2nd or 3rd comment are the "wake up call" from whom is against nerfs, for every reason possible.

I really really love when those "wake up calls" have much more likes and awesomes than the ones asked by nerfers.

I've made this war mine too (fight against nerfs) because if Zenimax were constantly buffing stuff, i would understand it, but It's exactly the opoposite. People don't need to help or encourage them even more...