Casual/disabled player input

Inaya · May 2021

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Why not make it so that everyone can get stuff like Kyne's Aegis boat, that way people with disabilities don't feel worthless for not being able to do Kyne's vet just so they can get nice things. People with disabilities are people, and are equally deserving of nice things; they are NOT "too worthless and don't deserve nice things" all because they have a disability.

And before anyone says "oh, but then people who want a challenge won't feel rewarded for it if they can't show off how special and superior they are with nice skins, furnishings, etc!"

People who truly want a challenge will do challenges regardless if they're given a special reward for it. Otherwise...people who want a challenge just for some special reward don't actually want a challenge, they want to feel superior to other players by showing off items that others cannot get.

I just absolutely do not understand how not being able to do and/or get ALL game content can make someone feel worthless, unequal or undeserving. This is a GAME. No MMO is designed for everyone to get everything.

If anyone, no matter who, lets not getting a bunch of pixels make them feel worthless, unequal or undeserving then ....I'm just speechless that this is even a "thing"

Fennwitty · May 2021

I'm not an expert, but for audio related disabilities I think PC is hands-down the superior platform.

Again, keyboard chat is the default. There's no built in voice communication whatsoever on PC. To achieve voice chat, players run external applications such as Discord or Skype with others they know.

Tigertron wrote: »

If you can type “tyfg” after it’s all over that all the communication you need. Or nothing. It very common on pc.

Exactly right. Honestly the majority of people who queue for random dungeons or daily pledge dungeons say "tyfg" at the end, and maybe sometimes "ok".

Not that PC is inherently antisocial but the majority of players running the dungeons have done each so frequently there's not much to discuss. When someone is new to the dungeon and lets me know, I always type out any guidance they need.

I don't think I've ever used voice chat in a 4-person dungeon of any difficulty in ESO.

It's reserved for 12-person trials, and even then not strictly necessary. VERY frequently "pug" groups will run normal trials, even sometimes vet, with nobody using voice chat. (I won't guarantee the results on a pug vet trial regardless of voice chat ...)

Several times I've been in normal difficulty trial groups where a kernal of the organizing players were in voice chat using Discord, but up to half of the rest were PUG members with chat only. The content always got cleared.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

1) come to pc. Not sure how to work around deaf, but the MANY addons that can tell you when to block or dodge will certainly aid you in vet mechanics ...

Agree, also. On PC with have A LOT of helpful addons.

There are addons which give you amazing visibility to track active buffs or debuffs, that can warn visually when certain dungeon or trial mechanics are about to start, and customizations to your group's health bars/colors/shapes practically anything.

@Supertonicbaker and anyone else on console: If you get a chance to try out PC (NA) send me a message and I'll get your new characters set up with full training gear, introduce you to some guilds, and walk you through setting up addons for the first time.

Serious offer.

noneatza · May 2021

Yes, trial trifectas take weeks to months to get depending on the trial with 4-6h per week. I'm not up for that and i am fine with that.
I don't want it to change, i've seen games where devs catered to the casual players to the extent of nerfing everything with any remote level of difficulty, that is just bad and players quit because of the lack of challenge.

The way zos is going about content difficulty is the right way, have normal, vet, vet hm versions for stuff. It's not like "eliteteteteists" have an easy time in vet hm content. They just put the time and effort in to get those rewards.

If only devs would find a way to separate pvp and pve...

Sanctum74 · May 2021

As an older disabled person I have to say no. Already the majority of the content is catered to casual players so why should zos change game to exclude more experienced players?

Currently there is content for all types of players, if you want to argue better rewards for normal versions that’s fine, but seems selfish to want to ruin content for other players that worked hard for it.

I do agree with you on the bug fixes though, the game is in the worst performance state it’s been since release.

Stevie6 · May 2021

[Quoted Post Removed]

I think the devs should step up and provide us data on player dps numbers ie 0 to 10k, 11 to 20k, ect. If it shows that the vast majority of the player base is below 30k dps, it needs to be addressed. I know a lot of players with disabilities, bad internet connections, etc that fall into a category that is over looked. It exits in all mmos. GW2 comes the closest in providing an even playing field while others do not.

Human beings will always have the need to be included and everybody should be. I’m a bad player that is also a disabled vet. I do play this game but can only go so far with it. Do I want to play harder content. Sure I do. I don’t have any real dps but I will go in a try to solo vet 1 content. It takes a very long time but I manage. The best setup I had was back in pre Morrowind. It was the petsorc. Devs nerfed it and basically ended my play style. So I ended up making a heck of a magsorc tank w/ 1 pet and just do basic to overland bosses. It’s gets boring due to repetition...same bosses different day.

Every body gets sky shards, lore books, delves but once that runs it’s course then what? Upper content is locked out to people for one reason or another. I did a few pugs and actually helped someone worse than me. I didn’t leave them but helped all the way a had a good laugh with them. I don’t leave people behind. That was a couple of years ago. Now I just mainly solo including normal maelstrom arena. I still have my vet MA at arena 9 still but can’t do it...been there for over a year lol. Problem I have is reaction time. Numbness and nerve damage. It’s hard to determine a key press or mouse button. It takes a little longer to respond....thus heavy attack is the only method for me. I can manage only two key hits with the left hand and mouse w/ side thumb button for weapon swapping for right hand.

I tried to solo the first boss in the clockwork city trial...didn’t last long but I tried.

Psiion · May 2021

Greetings,

After removing a few non-constructive posts, we would like to remind everyone to keep discussion respectful and on topic moving forward. Keep in mind that Baiting is against the Forum's Community Rules as well.

desndb · May 2021

Ty all for your replies and for the majority being actual conversation.

I wanted to add a bit more context here seeing as I'm seeing a bit of "you can't have it all" replies.

I have completed all but the 4 most recent dungeons on Vet, most on HM also. This last 4 I just haven't found time to go honestly try yet.

I do not want things "handed to me". Disability and old age just tend to make things extra hard

What I'm asking for is specifically in relation to vet Trials. There is a huge gap between running on normal and running on Vet. The gap is not just "hey up your DPS". It's closer to "double your DPS and please learn these new mechanics that make everything confusing and different, maybe impossible".

I get the reasoning, but I do not get the extreme jump between the two.

I don't think it's too much to ask that the DPS requirements for vet be brought down slightly, and perhaps limit the new mechanics to just 1 or 2 new things. Or heck, just give me one or the other.

Perhaps save the double DPS checks AND extra mechanics for HM. This would provide a much more steady pace of progression for people like me who struggle with certain game aspects.

As I said previously, I have a prog group put together. We practice every week for hours/days. But we are getting nowhere. No matter how much we try, we are stuck due to both the double DPS check and the game breaking bugs. We've already changed all our gear/skills/rotations to maximize everything we can and it's just not enough. This is the frustrating part... We ARE trying to the best of our ability.

Again, I don't want this handed to me, I just think the disparity between normal and vet should be looked at from another point of view, maybe reserve HM for all that "super Uber challenging" stuff, if for no other reason than to see a slightly higher percentage of the player base pass them.

Thoragaal · May 2021

desndb wrote: »

What I'm asking for is specifically in relation to vet Trials. There is a huge gap between running on normal and running on Vet. The gap is not just "hey up your DPS". It's closer to "double your DPS and please learn these new mechanics that make everything confusing and different, maybe impossible".

I get the reasoning, but I do not get the extreme jump between the two.

This I can agree with. It's something that's been brought up in both PvE and PvP, for a long time.
I think it's partially because the current end game wasn't even on the radar when the game was first being made; there were no trials upon release. It was tacked on as an after thought.

(Example)
The same could be said for some people going from overland content into group dungeons; light attacks alone isn't going to cut it. Unfortunately, with the recent CP changes and the added transmute crystals for finishing a random, there are more high level CP players than ever willing to just blast through the normal dungeon, while the "new guy" has no idea what's going on. And the "new guy" learned absolutely nothing from the new experience in order to further increase their capabilities so that they later can move on to more difficult content.

Another reason I believe nothing is being done about the Normal -> Vet disparity is because normal is being viewed as "this is content for those that want to experience/see everything", while vet is viewed as "this is for players that wants more of a challenge".

Jaimeh · May 2021

If you want to do vet content, and want to have ALl the achievement as you said, then that's not really being casual, and the answer is improvement. No matter what ZOS does to sets, if you don't have a solid rotation you can't improve, the best set can't carry a suboptimal rotation, and knowing your class. You can clear most content with lower dps, it has been demonstrated by no cp runs, no gear runs, etc., time and time again. If your group couldn't, then it means there something amiss and this is usually not executing mechanics well or not having coordination (assuming everyone knew their role).

Inaya · May 2021

desndb wrote: »

Ty all for your replies and for the majority being actual conversation.

I wanted to add a bit more context here seeing as I'm seeing a bit of "you can't have it all" replies.

I have completed all but the 4 most recent dungeons on Vet, most on HM also. This last 4 I just haven't found time to go honestly try yet.

I do not want things "handed to me". Disability and old age just tend to make things extra hard

What I'm asking for is specifically in relation to vet Trials. There is a huge gap between running on normal and running on Vet. The gap is not just "hey up your DPS". It's closer to "double your DPS and please learn these new mechanics that make everything confusing and different, maybe impossible".

I get the reasoning, but I do not get the extreme jump between the two.

I don't think it's too much to ask that the DPS requirements for vet be brought down slightly, and perhaps limit the new mechanics to just 1 or 2 new things. Or heck, just give me one or the other.

Perhaps save the double DPS checks AND extra mechanics for HM. This would provide a much more steady pace of progression for people like me who struggle with certain game aspects.

As I said previously, I have a prog group put together. We practice every week for hours/days. But we are getting nowhere. No matter how much we try, we are stuck due to both the double DPS check and the game breaking bugs. We've already changed all our gear/skills/rotations to maximize everything we can and it's just not enough. This is the frustrating part... We ARE trying to the best of our ability.

Again, I don't want this handed to me, I just think the disparity between normal and vet should be looked at from another point of view, maybe reserve HM for all that "super Uber challenging" stuff, if for no other reason than to see a slightly higher percentage of the player base pass them.

Grats to you on the Vet HM dungeons, there is absolutely no way I'd even attempt them anymore!!! I'm chicken lol and I think you are amazing for trying and working hard to succeed

But here is my thing (so to speak) OK, so we change vet/hard mode content to the extent that your group can complete it. What do those players who want a challenge do now? What happens to the players in progression guilds and teams? What about those for whom normal delves and dungeons are out of reach? Do we change those too? Your group can't complete it (bugs excluded) because it's not designed for US. Where and with who does this all stop?

I get it and it sucks to try your hardest and still not be able to complete some content, it really does. There are some real shiny things I would love to get, but I can't hang with progression anymore, I can't get the hang of PVP. I do vet dungeons rarely but always with friends/guildies and I am fully aware that I make it harder for them. I ONLY do dungeons with friends or guildies. Vet trials, no way, wouldn't even ASK friends to carry me.

MMO's are designed to appeal to a wide variety of people and ESO does it better than most for the non-progression peeps since there are sooooooooo many things to do. You notice I didn't say casual? Casual has nothing to do with the type of content you do.. Are you casual if you work diligently to collect every motif, chase achievements, collect all patterns/recipes etc... nope! You are just as hard core/dedicated as someone who does vet trials, just in different content.

I want a healthy game with stuff for everyone. I just can't get behind asking to change the game to cater to a few....for anyone, even me!

lolo_01b16_ESO · May 2021

Actually almost all dps checks are so low compared to the damage that is possible, that you should easiely pass them as long as boss mechanics don't kill you.
I recently tested how much dps I could get without fast moving fingers. I only used one skill, bound to my mouse wheel, a potion every 45s and a synergy for sustain about every 30s. The result was more than 60k dps on the dummy. Which is way more than what you need for most vet content. I think the hardest currently existing dps check are 42k on sunspire last boss hardmode. (Yes I know dummy dps isn't equal to raid dps, but even if you loose some damage because the boss moves around or buffs are missing, it should still be enough).
I'd say the most important things when you want to complete vet content are:
- have a group that wants to play together as a team
- make sure you understand how boss mechanics and damage work
- pick your strategy based on what woks for you and don't try to copy what some random guy on youtube or elsewhere claims to be "the best"
https://imgur.com/FmTqRCe

Inaya · May 2021

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually almost all dps checks are so low compared to the damage that is possible, that you should easiely pass them as long as boss mechanics don't kill you.
I recently tested how much dps I could get without fast moving fingers. I only used one skill, bound to my mouse wheel, a potion every 45s and a synergy for sustain about every 30s. The result was more than 60k dps on the dummy. Which is way more than what you need for most vet content. I think the hardest currently existing dps check are 42k on sunspire last boss hardmode. (Yes I know dummy dps isn't equal to raid dps, but even if you loose some damage because the boss moves around or buffs are missing, it should still be enough).
I'd say the most important things when you want to complete vet content are:
- have a group that wants to play together as a team
- make sure you understand how boss mechanics and damage work
- pick your strategy based on what woks for you and don't try to copy what some random guy on youtube or elsewhere claims to be "the best"
https://imgur.com/FmTqRCe

Absolutely! With those 3 things and even almost adequate DPS you should be able to complete content. In my opinion, there is no # 1 in your list... all those things are mandatory!

Oh I'd add one more...do it for FUN!!!! Take breaks, walk away when frustrated and don't get overly obsessed with progression. Take pleasure in even small accomplishments like "hey we got it down 10% more that time"

katanagirl1 · May 2021

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually almost all dps checks are so low compared to the damage that is possible, that you should easiely pass them as long as boss mechanics don't kill you.
I recently tested how much dps I could get without fast moving fingers. I only used one skill, bound to my mouse wheel, a potion every 45s and a synergy for sustain about every 30s. The result was more than 60k dps on the dummy. Which is way more than what you need for most vet content. I think the hardest currently existing dps check are 42k on sunspire last boss hardmode. (Yes I know dummy dps isn't equal to raid dps, but even if you loose some damage because the boss moves around or buffs are missing, it should still be enough).
I'd say the most important things when you want to complete vet content are:
- have a group that wants to play together as a team
- make sure you understand how boss mechanics and damage work
- pick your strategy based on what woks for you and don't try to copy what some random guy on youtube or elsewhere claims to be "the best"
https://imgur.com/FmTqRCe

Is this really a test for not doing the rotation fast, though? You said only one skill, but did you do it every second with light weaving? People with disabilities might not be able to click that fast.

FangOfTheTwoMoons · May 2021

katanagirl1 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually almost all dps checks are so low compared to the damage that is possible, that you should easiely pass them as long as boss mechanics don't kill you.
I recently tested how much dps I could get without fast moving fingers. I only used one skill, bound to my mouse wheel, a potion every 45s and a synergy for sustain about every 30s. The result was more than 60k dps on the dummy. Which is way more than what you need for most vet content. I think the hardest currently existing dps check are 42k on sunspire last boss hardmode. (Yes I know dummy dps isn't equal to raid dps, but even if you loose some damage because the boss moves around or buffs are missing, it should still be enough).
I'd say the most important things when you want to complete vet content are:
- have a group that wants to play together as a team
- make sure you understand how boss mechanics and damage work
- pick your strategy based on what woks for you and don't try to copy what some random guy on youtube or elsewhere claims to be "the best"
https://imgur.com/FmTqRCe

Is this really a test for not doing the rotation fast, though? You said only one skill, but did you do it every second with light weaving? People with disabilities might not be able to click that fast.

If you look at the combat metrics they posted, you'll see that there were no light attacks done at all. Jabs was the only skill they were using.

blktauna · May 2021

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

<snip>

People who truly want a challenge will do challenges regardless if they're given a special reward for it. Otherwise...people who want a challenge just for some special reward don't actually want a challenge, they want to feel superior to other players by showing off items that others cannot get.

This exactly! Well said.

Stevie6 · May 2021

blktauna wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

<snip>

People who truly want a challenge will do challenges regardless if they're given a special reward for it. Otherwise...people who want a challenge just for some special reward don't actually want a challenge, they want to feel superior to other players by showing off items that others cannot get.

This exactly! Well said.

The better / leet players aren’t interested in “raising the floor” only that you have to earn it. The effects of nerfing the top end are being felt at the bottom. Every time there is a damage nerf dps just slides with it. I would say at this time, the devs need to really look at the past...pre Morrowind. I know magicka users had a lot going for them and stam needed some adjustments to be on par with them. However, nerf/balancing was implemented and it’s still not working for the casual / disabled player. I haven’t improved at all. All I did was compensate for better health survival and low dps on all builds. Heavy attack is basically my sustain. Are the devs going to look at what I’m doing and make changes accordingly? No they are not and they shouldn’t.

It’s just the way this mmo was designed from the beginning. Better armour sets/weapons won’t make you a better player, but having the base damage adjusted upward will and I do mean by a lot. We need at least 5k base weapon and spell damage to start with and adjust upwards if you want to raise the floor. The ceiling can go beyond the moon for all I care for pve that is..PVP needs to be on it’s own server and nerfed into oblivion.

Castagere · May 2021

Old school MMO's didn't need different modes for group content. Now you have to have different modes or people complain. All you used to need was solo content and group content that was it. Group content meant a full group was all you needed and one of them better be a healer. Today you have normal mode hard mode vet mode and suicide mode. Sounds pretty funny.

lolo_01b16_ESO · May 2021

katanagirl1 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually almost all dps checks are so low compared to the damage that is possible, that you should easiely pass them as long as boss mechanics don't kill you.
I recently tested how much dps I could get without fast moving fingers. I only used one skill, bound to my mouse wheel, a potion every 45s and a synergy for sustain about every 30s. The result was more than 60k dps on the dummy. Which is way more than what you need for most vet content. I think the hardest currently existing dps check are 42k on sunspire last boss hardmode. (Yes I know dummy dps isn't equal to raid dps, but even if you loose some damage because the boss moves around or buffs are missing, it should still be enough).
I'd say the most important things when you want to complete vet content are:
- have a group that wants to play together as a team
- make sure you understand how boss mechanics and damage work
- pick your strategy based on what woks for you and don't try to copy what some random guy on youtube or elsewhere claims to be "the best"
https://imgur.com/FmTqRCe

Is this really a test for not doing the rotation fast, though? You said only one skill, but did you do it every second with light weaving? People with disabilities might not be able to click that fast.

I didn't do any light attacks. And while I did recast the skill on cooldown it didn't require any clicks. Just slowly moving my finger back and forth on the mouse wheel.

Minyassa · May 2021

I honestly don't think there is a solution for this in today's gaming world. I see a lot of lip service to inclusion, and they all wind up with a big "but" before the reasons why things have to stay the way they are. People like their status modes and they like exclusivity, and as long as they are able to do things they don't have to worry about other people who aren't themselves. And that's what these games run by, majority observation. Game admin is never going to look at a few disabled people and worry about their game experience because they aren't a high enough number to affect the game's cash flow, and it's not staff's job to put energy where there isn't significant cash. The devs, individually, might care, but their company is concerned with finance and finance only and there is no money in improving game experience for a small percentage of customers.

katanagirl1 · May 2021

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually almost all dps checks are so low compared to the damage that is possible, that you should easiely pass them as long as boss mechanics don't kill you.
I recently tested how much dps I could get without fast moving fingers. I only used one skill, bound to my mouse wheel, a potion every 45s and a synergy for sustain about every 30s. The result was more than 60k dps on the dummy. Which is way more than what you need for most vet content. I think the hardest currently existing dps check are 42k on sunspire last boss hardmode. (Yes I know dummy dps isn't equal to raid dps, but even if you loose some damage because the boss moves around or buffs are missing, it should still be enough).
I'd say the most important things when you want to complete vet content are:
- have a group that wants to play together as a team
- make sure you understand how boss mechanics and damage work
- pick your strategy based on what woks for you and don't try to copy what some random guy on youtube or elsewhere claims to be "the best"
https://imgur.com/FmTqRCe

Is this really a test for not doing the rotation fast, though? You said only one skill, but did you do it every second with light weaving? People with disabilities might not be able to click that fast.

I didn't do any light attacks. And while I did recast the skill on cooldown it didn't require any clicks. Just slowly moving my finger back and forth on the mouse wheel.

OK so I am not familiar with this combat metrics since I am on console, but stamplar PvE was (not sure if still is) the highest dps class and jabs is a channeled skill so 4 hits per click. While it might work for that class, other classes will probably have much lower dps for just one skill.

I also meant to point out that I am not physically disabled, but I am an older gamer and I just can’t get my rotation fast enough to get good dps. I can relate to this post in some way.

Zodiarkslayer · May 2021

@desndb I can understand, that you are frustrated. [snip]
I genuinely want to know why everybody should be kept from challenging themselves and have a feeling of achievement when they overcome a HardMode Trial?

See, I am a father, a husband and have a fulltime day job. I had to accept long ago, that I will never have the time to get so good that I can beat VET HardMode Trials. Not without giving up being employed, a father or a husband.

I chose to focus on what I can do and on what I have fun doing. I choose to live on the positive side of things.
You should give it a try. It is quite healthy.

I do have to agree on the "rewards" for Vet content. If it is just aesthetics or skins or mounts, I do not care. But anything that is relevant for other parts of the game, like furnishings, that are achievement locked, I find hard to stomach.

[Edited to remove Offensive Content]

Castagere · May 2021

Is anyone old enough to remember when MMO's didn't need or require achievements? They were brought over from console games and that's pretty much when all these different modes showed up.

Sylvermynx · May 2021

Castagere wrote: »

Is anyone old enough to remember when MMO's didn't need or require achievements? They were brought over from console games and that's pretty much when all these different modes showed up.

I am. And to this day I have zero use for achievements.

Morgha_Kul · May 2021

I've spoken many times about that gap. The problem is the power creep. Each update brings players new and better ways to get more and more and more powerful, until they're practically obliterating the original World Bosses in a couple of attacks, and wiping out dozens of normal enemies in less than a second.

I honestly don't know quite what to do about it at this point. There needs to be some way to bring down the top end damage levels dramatically.

My thinking is this:

My characters are capable of doing around 5k-10k dps. I'm not sure how to quantify my defensive abilities, but he's a HYBRID character, with heavy armour. This character (indeed, all my characters) is capable of soloing almost any of the original content of the game, including all the Public Dungeons, most World Bosses and probably a few of the Group Dungeons.

This being so, I must conclude that this should be approaching the upper level of power we should be able to achieve. I mean, at that level of ability, MUCH of the game is pretty trivial. Overland enemies are NO threat, and no challenge. Pretty well all the delves are no threat, and no challenge.

Now, I'm not an elite player by any stretch, so it's pretty easy to get to this level of performance, I think. What that means is that measures need to be implemented to make it increasingly difficult to increase your performance. I'm not sure what they would be, though, because I'm not entirely sure where the dramatic increases in power are coming from.

It's important. There are players who ARE challenged by overland content. These players CANNOT do many of the NORMAL Dungeons, let alone the Veteran ones. Worse, later zones and enemies have become so powerful that these kinds of players can't even do overland content. I mean, I don't think of myself as powerless, but I simply cannot contribute in a Harrowstorm, or fighting a Western Skyrim World Boss. I mean, if I can't compete with these kinds of foes, how is someone of lesser capability supposed to participate? They're being pushed right out of the game. I find it worrisome. I've seen rampant power creep utterly destroy games in the past. I'd really hate to see it happen here, but it's already started. Something needs to be done about it.

Stevie6 · May 2021

ESO by it’s own nature or game design has divided the player base into three or four types of players. The elite have a good grasp of game mechanics, weaving, ect and know how to adjust or exploit any changes made wether it is a buff or nerf. They also have the highest damage output. The middle of the road are caught at a crossroads. They will either go up, stay the same, or slip back a little with patch rollouts.

The casual, new, and disabled players are basically stuck sorting things out after every patch. They are trying to make a build that works in overland, normal dungeons, and world bosses. They have to juggle between damage and survival. Most of the time it’s a tank build with low damage output no matter which race or class. They can’t progress into harder content without sacrificing survival. Low dps will only get a these individuals so far. La and weaving might get picked up by some but not the vast majority. Heavy attack is the preferred method. Damage output is low.

Item set are not the concern, it’s the base damage as well as all skills that are reliant on wp/sp damage, resources health, stam, mag, or a combination of each. A newbie or casual player is only looking at sp/wp damage in combination with item sets. Most will wonder why they have very low damage and end up getting killed to world bosses. Is it the equipment or player? Both? How do you raise the floor when players are struggling and can’t progress? There isn’t a guide going around telling them what to do. Rotation, weaving, LA what the heck...just spam two to three skills and do a basic weapon attack...that should do it right? Nope. They die.

Damage output isn’t consistent. How do you fix that? Lowering the ceiling is easy but raising the floor? I can do three key presses and a heavy attack and get a different output every time. 8 k at the low end all the way to 28k on the same overland target. Really? Practicing on a dummy isn’t going to help while engaging a world boss. It’s moving at you. I practice on world bosses, they are my practice dummies. Low dps, dodge rolling, evade, back to attack....this is the reality for casual players.

Nord_Raseri · May 2021

Supertonicbaker wrote: »

I can sympathize with the frustration. I can never do group content, ever, as I’m essentially deaf and mute. I’m sure that I’d be kicked instantly pugging and no militarily precise end game team would want someone tagging along that is incommunicado. Plus, console player and it takes me about 30 minutes to respond with types, as it’s taking me right now just to post this. This game is the only one I dared to solo dungeons just so I can see what’s inside. Curiosity and all that. Although I know there’s a lot I’ll never be able to see and bosses to fight. Thought it’d be cool if there were solo versions of dungeons, without any serious loot drops of course, just so I can get on in there.

But lets be serious, that’d probably be a huge undertaking with servers and extra development that zos probably can’t do. Ahh well. My beggar can’t be a chooser.

What platform/server are you on? I'm on ps4 na and would be happy to run some dungeons sometime. Normal or vet, either way.

LashanW · May 2021

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I've spoken many times about that gap. The problem is the power creep. Each update brings players new and better ways to get more and more and more powerful, until they're practically obliterating the original World Bosses in a couple of attacks, and wiping out dozens of normal enemies in less than a second.

I honestly don't know quite what to do about it at this point. There needs to be some way to bring down the top end damage levels dramatically.

Power creep is not a problem. It's more like a symptom. Real problem is the skill gap between players. Game can't be balanced around top end because then mid-tier groups and inexperienced players can't even think about clearing difficult content. I can't think of a single way to bring down the top end damage levels dramatically without also gutting the low end, and still keep the combat system non-trivial and engaging. LA weaving adds less than 30% dps. Damage difference between low end and top end is so much larger than that. So nerfing LA weaving alone won't help much.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What that means is that measures need to be implemented to make it increasingly difficult to increase your performance. I'm not sure what they would be, though, because I'm not entirely sure where the dramatic increases in power are coming from.

The dramatic increases in power you speak of, it comes from an in-depth understanding how the combat works (as in what stats are more important, what skills work better in combination with the rest of your build and the fight you are heading for), concept of a proper dps build and a "rotation", weaving and the ability/practice to pull it off in hard content. Most of this knowledge and skill comes from a player looking up all this stuff and putting in the time to practice it. Addons help a lot too. There is little to no in-game help for a player to achieve this. It's one of the core reasons for skill gap in this game imo.

LashanW · May 2021

Stevie6 wrote: »

Damage output isn’t consistent. How do you fix that? Lowering the ceiling is easy but raising the floor? I can do three key presses and a heavy attack and get a different output every time. 8 k at the low end all the way to 28k on the same overland target. Really?

I assume you are playing on PC since you mentioned dps numbers against overland targets. Combat metrics addon will show every last tiny detail about your damage output and how it happened, including timestamps for each combat event. Open up combat metrics and check. Crit rng and enchantment procs are most likely the cause of that inconsistency you see.

Jeremy · May 2021

desndb wrote: »

Where is it?

I see ALL these changes coming to the PTS (which WILL make it to live) and all I feel is utter dispair. It seems to me that EVERY update the gap gets wider, regardless of the Devs intention. Inevitably the floor and the ceiling grow farther apart because NO ONE is fighting for or paying attention to those of us who are not elite or even great. We are your average, run of the mill players who are just looking for an escape from reality for a small amount of time whenever we are able.

It feels like we are relegated to normal everything: dungeons, trials, arenas, etc.
If we have ZERO hope of passing the hard content then why should we continue to play?
(Please DO NOT just tell me to "git gud", disabilities suck)

I went so far as to put together my own progression group. We studied the videos, we changed our gear, we practiced our rotations. We did everything we could have to get through the content... With ZERO success.

Why is there no leeway on the vet content for the casual players? Why is it perfect or nothing?
This is especially maddening for a housing enthusiast, when I cannot get the achievement items I want for my homes (of which I own almost ALL of). Also for someone who wants very much to have AS MANY achievements as I can get, but that's another story.

Can we stop trying to balance PVE & PVP! Please!? Seperate them! For the love of all that is holy, it's only making things worse!
And quit making all vet content SO dang different from normal! Vet shouldn't mean 100 times harder plus 15 new mechanics to learn; instead there should either be less of a disparity in difficulty or a middle ground somewhere to help the transition.

Also, FIX THE BUGS!
It does absolutely ZERO good to learn mechanics if they are just going to break or bug or fail. How is it encouraging to fail ANYTHING through ZERO fault of your own?

I don't really need replies, I am essentially just venting here. I am tired of loosing friends to bugs. I am tired of feeling like this game has just become "do dailies if you can and hope they aren't bugged, but also you'll never complete 'THAT', so HAHA"!

I just hope that someone, somewhere is paying attention... Because if you aren't, this game will loose a lot of players very quickly (CP 2.0 already saw too many people give up, and the PTS doesn't look promising).

*That was a lot of random ranting and I apologize*

I don't think Veteran Content has that many new mechanics. It's just that normal modes are so easy and enemies die so fast you just don't notice them. But it would be nice if they could find a better middle ground. A lot of content on this game is either so easy it's boring or too hard it's frustrating. Though I do still enjoy quite a bit of the veteran content on this game. But there is some though that goes overboard.

ApoAlaia · May 2021

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

Is anyone old enough to remember when MMO's didn't need or require achievements? They were brought over from console games and that's pretty much when all these different modes showed up.

I am. And to this day I have zero use for achievements.

I am too, and I too have little to no use for achievements or titles - other than playful/tongue-in-cheek ones like Empieror/ess or Pirate for instance - however some of the rewards that come with them are neat. No necessary, just neat.

Said that I have no issue with achievements existing or people chasing them, this is not a case of 'I have no use for them so I don't want you to have them either'.