What's wrong with Nightblade Healers?

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

Shaiba wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

15k cp sounds more like dps burst heal then healer heals.

What do you mean with DPS burst heal ? I'm 1272 CP, all my healing CPs are maxxed and slotted, all magicka/crit passives too. My stuff is gold SPC/master architect/encratis (or sympho of blades) for dungeon - Roaring opportunist/jorvuld/encratis (or bogdan) for raids. I'm khajiit.

I just checked my DK healer and his tooltip value is 7k

My tooltip on my NB unbuffed (only with my food, wearing my dungeon gear) :
https://i.ibb.co/jzvxGDK/CP-unbuffed.png
My tooltip self-buffed (pots, food, major courage, wearing my dungeon gear) :
https://i.ibb.co/47kzrjK/CP-buffed.png
EDIT : oops I forgot minor mending on this pic, here we are :
https://i.ibb.co/pPVFvd3/CP-buffed-with-minor-mending.png

SD glyphs on jewelry isn't only for DPS or non-casual playstyle, as soon as you have enough magicka recovery on your healer to not be OOM on any content you're doing, stacking more mag recovery is useless, meaning you can slot more useful glyphs on your build. I use 3 SD glyphs on my opportunist build (to max out uptime), and 2 SD glyphs on my dungeon build.

casual or semi-casual playstyle,

Casual playstyle doesn't mean you have to use an inneficient build. Casual only means you're playing chill, and/or don't have much time to play.

Oh, unbuffed is what we were thinking here before.

the1andonlyskwex · May 2021

Shaiba wrote: »

casual or semi-casual playstyle,

Casual playstyle doesn't mean you have to use an inneficient build. Casual only means you're playing chill, and/or don't have much time to play.

In my mind, the main difference between casuals and non-casuals build-wise is always going to include gear cost. Casuals don't farm enough gold/mats to upgrade everything to legendary, put SD/WD enchants on their jewelry, and transmute all their traits. They might do some of those things, but doing all of them is out of reach.

This is why so many people are up in arms about the proc set scaling changes. They look at the 6500 SD/WD thresholds to maintain their current power level and see something unreachable, because their current SD/WD is barely half that.

Shaiba · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Oh, unbuffed is what we were thinking here before.

fully self-buffed

??? I'm confused . Nobody said we were talking about unbuffed (and the person I quoted and answered to was talking about self-buffed tooltip). We were talking about a situation in dungeon situation where one hit can remove 90% of your HP pool ^^ In dungeon I'm self-buffed at least

In my mind, the main difference between casuals and non-casuals build-wise is always going to include gear cost. Casuals don't farm enough gold/mats to upgrade everything to legendary, put SD/WD enchants on their jewelry, and transmute all their traits. They might do some of those things, but doing all of them is out of reach.

If you are low on ressources, only gold your staves, put good glyph on your jewelry, put purple magicka glyphs on the rest of your stuff (specially if the traits aren't that good). That's what I do on my rerolls (yes I do have some well-fitted gear on my alts ). For gold/mats I only do daily crafts quests.

CreepyPahuska · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Oh, unbuffed is what we were thinking here before.

You might want to clarify who is "we" I think :

I just checked my DK healer and his tooltip value is 7k (fully self-buffed, with Major Courage, Major Sorcery, and magicka food)

Besides, what's the point of talking about non-buffed stat anyway ? Who goes in a dungeon without buffs ?
From what I understand this conversation is about a healer loosing 90% of his health in veteran content. If this healer deliberately goes in a dungeon without buffs and complains about his heal not being powerful enough, then the problem isn't the class he plays but his poor choices

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

In my mind, the main difference between casuals and non-casuals build-wise is always going to include gear cost. Casuals don't farm enough gold/mats to upgrade everything to legendary, put SD/WD enchants on their jewelry, and transmute all their traits. They might do some of those things, but doing all of them is out of reach.

According to TTC, on PC EU, one Resin is approximetaly 2000 gold, and one Kuta is 1500 gold. If upgrading two staves in gold and making 2 or 3 purple or gold SD Enchants is out of their reach, then these players should rethink their goals and priorities.
What are you asking exactly ? To nerf the game toward players who aren't willing to pay 40k to improve their character just a little bit ? Cause you can actually go quite far with just the things I mentionned

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

Shaiba wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Oh, unbuffed is what we were thinking here before.

fully self-buffed

??? I'm confused . Nobody said we were talking about unbuffed (and the person I quoted and answered to was talking about self-buffed tooltip). We were talking about a situation in dungeon situation where one hit can remove 90% of your HP pool ^^ In dungeon I'm self-buffed at least

In my mind, the main difference between casuals and non-casuals build-wise is always going to include gear cost. Casuals don't farm enough gold/mats to upgrade everything to legendary, put SD/WD enchants on their jewelry, and transmute all their traits. They might do some of those things, but doing all of them is out of reach.

If you are low on ressources, only gold your staves, put good glyph on your jewelry, put purple magicka glyphs on the rest of your stuff (specially if the traits aren't that good). That's what I do on my rerolls (yes I do have some well-fitted gear on my alts ). For gold/mats I only do daily crafts quests.

🤦‍♀️ I meant 15k was buffed that's was the confusion from before

exeeter702 · May 2021

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Shaiba wrote: »

Do you not know how PuGs work? Almost nobody "knows how to position themselves"

Sadly, i know that, that's why i don't PuG that often. And i don't think devs should balance classes around bad PuG.

Also, Combat Prayer heals for half as much as a normal burst heal.

Which is more than enough to heal you full. My Combat Prayer heals for 15k/17k average on my NB, it's enough to recover yourself from a bad hit (add to that the HoTs you're maintaining). Avoid what's avoidable, your HoTs will cover the rest, specially on content you're doing with DDs who are at 5k DPS avg.

Ultimately, you're just saying NBs need to slot a second (worse) burst heal just for themself, which isn't necessary on any other class.

No it's not just for yourself, it's an AoE burst heal and it brings utility. And it is necessary on any other healing class for pushing content.

Casting it often only hits one person (other than yourself), and half the time one of your DDs only does 5k DPS, making a 5% damage buff to them worse than bringing an additional damage skill of your own.

Problem here isn't the healer's class, it's the DPS. You can't do DLC Hm with that kind of DPS anyway and besides DLC HM you won't take hits that will blow 90% of your HP pool, so i don't really see the problem here. I'm sorry I think I misunderstood what kind of content you were talking about, I was talking about content where one hit can blow 90% of the HP pool of the healer, (punishing content), you were talking about non HM or non DLC dungeons. Sorry again for the quiproquo. Can you clarify what kind of content you can complete with DDs who are at 5k avg AND at the same time where you take one hit that blow 90% of your HP pool off ?

Sorry dude, but you were just moaning that you couldn't survive without a self burst healing skills when we have access to that kind of skills. Just wanted to help. Have a nice day.

Your build is clearly different from mine. My Combat Prayer is a lot closer to 5k than 15k (although I don't remember exactly what it is).

There are tons of places where you can take big damage as a healer in base game vet dungeons. Just one example is the final boss of Wayrest Sewers 1 (HM), and in her case you absolutely need to burst heal after she leaps at you in order to avoid dying to the damage that comes after the initial burst.

I dont mean any disrespect but I believe after reading your comments here, that you are coming from a much lower place of power. A combat prayer healing for 5k is either a user issue, or a build issue and I dont believe that perspective is in a place to accurately critique NB healing capability.

People solo vet sewers 1 and 2.

I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot more people like me playing ESO than there are people at the extreme high end.

If ZOS can't get things right for casuals, there probably won't be a game left running for the hardcore to complain about.

Aside from derailing the thread. Soloing non dlc vet dungeons or even the general tool tips for a healer referred to before, are not "hardcore".

Point being is that your criticism of NB healing weakness is misguided or uninformed. The class has healed effectively long before they had a burst heal for others, and never needed one for themsleves. Taking spikes of damage as per your example, and not being able to heal yourself up in time is not dependant on a burst heal, and is dependent on being able to play a healer (any of the 6).

Regardless of the genre of game, you almost never balance for the entry level, you balance for the high level and let the learning experience take its course naturally. You could make the argument that a templars bol affords a newer player more room for error, where they can just hammer on the ability, but no one would ever consider that point when talking about the effectiveness of each healer.

Hell even before cauterize and obsidian shard had heal components, a resto staff alongside Dks major mending uptime was borderline overkill in HPS for most vet dungeons.