newtinmpls wrote: »

If they asked at the beginning of the run, AND I get it AND I don't need it, I'm fine.

If they just suddenly say "you got this and I want it, gimme" (or some less polite version) I say that IF they had asked me at the start of the run, I might have considered it, but not now.

Thank you for encouraging the spamming of four to twelve times in start of every instance:

I DEFINITELY NEED: Rele:hel,leg,boo,swo,bel,che,2hs,2ha,2hm,ice,h,fire,lig,dag,bow Gale:hel,leg,shi,swo,axe,bel,che,2ha,2hm,ice,h,fire,lig,dag,bow Siro:hel,leg,shi,swo,bel,che,2hs,2ha,2hm,amu,h,fire,lig,dag,bow

I am sure carpet bombing the chat with 'ME ME ME' will result the goal where people are more polite, spamming is minimum and no one leaves instance without an item they could have gotten because the looter didn't need it himself.

btw, this might be a plot twist to you. I block, report and blacklist everyone posting their wishlist. Doing so is rude, spammy and pointless. Your asking for items that don't exist even yet.
</sarcasm & turning the tables>

Sounds like lot of the problems come from human actions, not what add-ons enable or do not enable. Has it crossed your mind that blocking people is quite extreme way of behaving towards another person? It also makes it impossible for the other person to learn whats bugging you or even improve his behavior towards you.

Instead of...

newtinmpls looted Dagger of Sanctuary

a) -> newtinmpls: Hey I am looking for Dagger of Sanctuary
b) -> group: Looking for Dagger of Sanctuary

a) newtinmpls -> you: Sorry, I need to myself. Well actually swords.
b) newtinmpls -> Group: Same here but swords.

a/b) You -> newtinmpls/Group: OMG I have swords, lets trade and everyone is happy! Wana farm another round? I am only missing ring after daggers and then my supper killing machine is ready. Wana do trial?

..You got...

newtinmpls looted Dagger of Sanctuary

a) -> newtinmpls: Hey I am looking for Dagger of Sanctuary
b) -> group: Looking for Dagger of Sanctuary

<newtinmpls blocks user>

It sucks if you get spammed for requests before yourself noticed what you looted.
It sucks that a persons gets offended that you use a add-on to request that last item you are needing/missing.
It sucks to see person leave instance before even considering trading loot or saying even saying bye.

I see three points that could be improved by human behavior. None that could be solved by adding or removing add-on features.

Well ok having a free channel for add-on communication to exchange data (Lootwisher: my human is looking X, Lootannouncer: my human just looted X, Loottrader: I see a opportunity here, altering my human) and you could either use it or not use it thus making loot trading easier.
Or you could just opt out not using add-ons and spam your copy&pasted wishlist over and over again until you get blocked.

See the problems with spamming versus targeted requests?

Roztlin45 wrote: »

Take away the usefulness and you remove the add on by proxy. Just simply never give a drop to anyone that whispers and peeks in your inventory. No matter what they say or do. Maybe this add on has a place in prearranged groups where.everyone agrees. However random pugs never. Thanks everyone for your comments.

That plan will never work. The vast majority of the player base is nowhere near that toxic.

Roztlin45 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Roztlin45 wrote: »

Take away the usefulness and you remove the add on by proxy. Just simply never give a drop to anyone that whispers and peeks in your inventory. No matter what they say or do. Maybe this add on has a place in prearranged groups where.everyone agrees. However random pugs never. Thanks everyone for your comments.

That plan will never work. The vast majority of the player base is nowhere near that toxic.

So I am toxic for simply minding my own business and helping when I can? I had to entertain a long pm just the other day from a guy that would not take no for an answer. I am.going to.save these and write Microsoft gaming a letter asking for. This Add on to be removed. Anyone that looks in others inventory and can't understand why it is wrong is toxic imho.

[snip] If you need something, keep it. If you don’t need it, then at least consider the request of someone who does. These are real people, with lives, responsibilities, and limited free time to farm ESO equipment. It’s bad enough to behave that way, but encouraging others to follow is worse.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think it's pretty screwed up that zos allows an addon that forces everyone to use it.

How is everyone forced to use it (Or any addon for that matter)? I don’t have any group loot addons and I’m doing just fine.

I also don’t object to anyone else running them. If people behave poorly that’s a people problem, not an addon problem. The addon doesn’t make people jerks. Just because people can see what I get doesn’t entitle them to any of it, and most people are very gracious when told “no”, I’ve had to get really firm with a few people, but they are a small minority. And again, that’s a problem with those individuals being jerks, it’s not an addon problem.

Faded wrote: »

It would be nice if this function was opt-in so everybody who likes it could have their convenience, and everybody who doesn't like it didn't have to deal with it at all. Keep driving people out of group content and that GF queue is going to get longer and longer.

This is a great idea. Those who use it can see others who use it (and leave all the people who don't out of the loop). Win-Win for everyone.

@WrathOfInnos thank you for your kind words.

My point is that I respond well to politeness, or humor, or possibly even bribery.

I do not respond well to "Gimme".

I do dislike "use of a convenience tool" but the existence of the tool is not my reason for not sharing a particular thing with a particular person.

I tend to make a point of asking, at the start of the run if anyone is looking for anything, and mentioning if I am. Sets things up nicely.

As the drops come in, the style of the "ask" matters. A lot.

I've had people say things along the lines of "I can see you have such and so, I'd really like it pretty please and I will give you lots of monies" and generally be friendly and blunt and mostly (presuming a buddy doesn't need it) I'm happy to give it to them if I don't need it, and generally I don't care about the monies.

I've also had people say "I can see you have such and so, give it over" (actually, less polite than that) after being a run-ahead-jerko who wasn't waiting for the person with the quest.

The only reason I didn't vote to kick was that it was clear that they were buds with another ***, and between the low DPS they were running, myself and my buddy (we tend to go in as a tank & healer set) could catch up with them and so we did not miss any boss drops (which, had they been any kind of adequate DPS would have happened).

In that case, I was petty enough to think loudly (but not actually say in chat) that they were so incredibly boorish that I'm happy this particular drop did not fall their way.

And after the 2nd nasty whisper, plunked them soundly on "ignore".

This is one of those "features" that reminds me of the original crafters of the internet. While brilliant in other ways, the original crafters were of a generalized, homogeneous group and had a difficult time fathoming the concept of harassment.

As a consequence, many structures within the internet, by default, place the full onus of action on the victim, instead of having built-in tools that encouraged civility and respect of personal space. This is only now, today, beginning to change.

Older mindsets and older communities were rife with this mindset. If someone was harassed--it was up to the victim to collect all of the logs, present all of the evidence, and argue that it was harassment at all. ...and being believed was unlikely.

This is not to say that the presentation of evidence is not important--

--merely that the old, RTFM-internet-based culture was of a nature where the victim was doubted, belittled, until they presented a legion of legwork, done at their own time and emotional expense, with none of what might be considered reasonable assistance. After which, it would be picked apart, if anything was done aside from "grow a thicker skin."

The earlier internet had its beautiful elements; and its dark corners.

A simple fix to addons like these would be to make them "opt-in." This honors personal choice, personal freedom, and interpersonal respect.

Groups wanting to run and share loot have nothing then, taken away from them. Those wishing privacy possess it at the outset. Harassers are out in the cold.

It also shows that how, we can advance as human beings in respect of one another, and grow.

The add-on gives more positives than negatives. WAY too many times me and others just loot stuff and don;t know that we got let's say a relequen shoulder. People with group loot confirms that we have it and we give it away. Also in my case, when i see people getting let's say AY daggers or Inferno Siroria i whisper them congrats (because that grind is awful). In the case of entitled people going all pissy "omg i need it, i need it, your alt needs it less than ME" *** em, it's your drop, not theirs.

Hi, @Roztlin45
The snips are because you did not number some of these separately and I think they deserve their own "point".

Roztlin45 wrote: »

<snip> my drops are for my account info only and it is none of anyone's business but my own.
<snip> I get a whisper begging for an item before I even get a chance to look at it. Most of the time the beggar won't take NO for an answer.
<snip> it is selfish to privately whisper, maybe someone else in the group wants the item. Why not just ask for unwanted items in the group chat?

Drops are for you - yes, no argument here.

Whispers (sort of two points here)
1-The speed; you mention "before I even get a chance to look at it"
This (I suspect) goes back to the speed-run/grinder. Some of them do not have social skills, or they are afraid that you will log off or out of the dungeon before they can attempt to get the thing from you.

2-"won't take no for an answer"; I admit that often toddlers who "can see something' and "know it's there" get unreasonable when told no. However that level of maturity simply merits an ignore. Don't bother trying to be reasonable with people who aren't reasonable.

3-Private whispers being selfish. Good call, I run with friends so often I forget this is a thing. If someone gets a rare/needed drop we will usually ask "is there anyone else who needs it" and "hole in my build" gets precedence over "want it for my sticker book" and so forth. Thanks for the reminder!

Azurya wrote: »

why do you even go in a raid or group up, if you don´t wanna share

Sharing is not the issue. Communication style and respect are the issues.

Baertram wrote: »

So in the end the addon could be a helper to notify who found something you could usw. IF and HOW you write to the person then is up to you, the human.

Well said.

Another person thinks only he is entitled to see certain pixels, and is trying to ban a feature he do not like. Why would one person say certain action is toxic, but robbing other people of such action is not toxic? Problem is with people, not with addon itself. I wonder, if you know, that zos has esologs, that grants ability to see any group members skill bar, equipped sets, see dps, hps, taunts? There would be many, who would claim, that their builds and rotation is their own personal information, not to be shared with others, but zos clearly thinks otherwise. Same with loot. Addon is not using anything, that is not coded ingame already, just like you cannot make addons with new skills, new items, etc. Just say "no, I need it myself" and block person if they persist. Works like a charm to me every time, and is much better than asking to ban any feature you do not like.

I really dislike this add on, I've been in groups where people start discussing what drops I got and that makes me uncomfortable. I still don't think it should be disabled. I would however support adding the ability to appear anonymously if you so choose like with ESOLogs.

Tools shouldn't be blamed for bad human behavior, but we should make the tools as full featured as possible to mitigate potential harassment, which a privacy setting would work for quite well.

krayphysh wrote: »

Either way, just turn off your loot history (or whatever it's called) while in groups and no one will be able to "dig in your purse"! Lmao XD

Has anyone confirmed that this works to disable spying?

newtinmpls wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

krayphysh wrote: »

Either way, just turn off your loot history (or whatever it's called) while in groups and no one will be able to "dig in your purse"! Lmao XD

Has anyone confirmed that this works to disable spying?

I would definitely be interested to hear about this.

any news about this?