Please Band the peekaboo addon!

Roztlin45

The add-on allows a group member to spy on people's inventory from drops while in a group. First of all my drops are for my account info only and it is none of anyone's business but my own. Second I get a whisper begging for an item before I even get a chance to look at it. Most of the time the beggar won't take NO for an answer. Third, it is selfish to privately whisper, maybe someone else in the group wants the item. Why not just ask for unwanted items in the group chat? Yes I know people have no delayed gratification these days.
Often I freely give out drops, we should share, but that it not the issue. I advise everyone to NEVER give an item to a peekaboo addon user. Announce that you need an item or request if anyone has extra in normal group chat. Share if possible. Stop invading privacy, being selfish, and displaying low personal honor(begging).
Zos please Band this add-on. It has no place in this game or any other!

relentless_turnip

Group loot, yes I have this one. It's handy if you're grinding for set pieces as you know who to ask after a drop. Good add on imo 👍

Amarthiul

If they don't take no for an answer, block them and move on with your day. I don't see the problem.

RedMuse

Amarthiul wrote: »

If they don't take no for an answer, block them and move on with your day. I don't see the problem.

There are ways of circumventing a block. It also doesn't prevent them from harassing you in group chat. Putting the onus of dealing with harassers on the victim is entirely unfair.

spartaxoxo

I think it's pretty screwed up that zos allows an addon that forces everyone to use it.

VaranisArano

Personally, I think the problem comes from the people who feel entitled to everything they see that they need and won't politely take "No" for an answer.

It's entirely possible for people to use the addon appropriately, especially amongst guildmates.

On the other hand, if you feel entitled to the loot merely because you announced "I need X gear" at the beginning of a dungeon run, you really need to be running in a premade group for the purposes of getting you that gear. No random groupmate is obligated to give you anything - it may be polite of them to speak up if they also need the gear, but who knows, they may not have realized it when you said it at the beginning. When you group with random, you get random groupmates who have their own reasons for running the dungeon that may not align with yours. If you want the gear, guaranteed, you need your own premade group.

XvarleyX

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Group loot, yes I have this one. It's handy if you're grinding for set pieces as you know who to ask after a drop. Good add on imo 👍

Why not just ask in group? Garbage add-on and i've been hassled a fair few times for items, 'i know you got it bro, i need it' etc..

MajThorax

Yes please band this feature in the game ui so we don't have to download the addon. Good idea OP!

TwinLamps

Zos should not ban such addons.
People that have issues with such addons should adapt and overcome said issues.
Simly seeing anoter group member's drop is not invasion of privacy.
If you wish your drops to be unknown to others, just play solo.
Also, why is it such a problem to say no to others if you need the items you got?

VaranisArano

XvarleyX wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Group loot, yes I have this one. It's handy if you're grinding for set pieces as you know who to ask after a drop. Good add on imo 👍

Why not just ask in group? Garbage add-on and i've been hassled a fair few times for items, 'i know you got it bro, i need it' etc..

I prefer to ask in group, but a number of people who use the addon say it's much more convenient for asking for specific items if there were a lot of pieces dropped from that set or if it's a trial with a lot of people. Also, it seems that people will ignore group chat sometimes, but respond to a whisper.

That being said, I hate being whispered for my loot because, yeah, my experience is that I've been hassled for my loot.

Addon users, if you want to say it's so great, be polite and take "No" for an answer.

relentless_turnip

XvarleyX wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Group loot, yes I have this one. It's handy if you're grinding for set pieces as you know who to ask after a drop. Good add on imo 👍

Why not just ask in group? Garbage add-on and i've been hassled a fair few times for items, 'i know you got it bro, i need it' etc..

I would ignore those people. There is plenty of reasons people will harass in this game. I don't think the add on can be blamed for what is people issue. 99% it can be used without issue.

Amarthiul

RedMuse wrote: »

Amarthiul wrote: »

If they don't take no for an answer, block them and move on with your day. I don't see the problem.

There are ways of circumventing a block. It also doesn't prevent them from harassing you in group chat. Putting the onus of dealing with harassers on the victim is entirely unfair.

How else are they going to be dealt with? If it's through whispers no-one else knows it's going on aside from ZOS if they poke through chat logs but implementing an automated system to do that is impossible because it's almost entirely down to how the person who got the drop feels.

At the point it moves to group chat then yes, others in the group should stand against the harasser and tell them to back off.

Ratzkifal

RedMuse wrote: »

Amarthiul wrote: »

If they don't take no for an answer, block them and move on with your day. I don't see the problem.

There are ways of circumventing a block. It also doesn't prevent them from harassing you in group chat. Putting the onus of dealing with harassers on the victim is entirely unfair.

And what would the alternative be? Let yourself be harassed? If someone is willing to harass you over not sharing your loot, you can bet that these people won't be going away if the addon gets banned. Instead they will start an inquisition every time someone doesn't link the item they got from the boss and harass you when you still don't link it. Banning this addon won't solve the problem because the problem is not with the addon but with the people.
What will help though is if you report people for harassment and only the victim or a witness of harassment can do that because everyone else just isn't aware of it. Onus on the victim or not - you have to be the change you want to see in the game, even if that seems unfair.

I like this addon, even though I don't use it, because sometimes you are just looking for items that most people consider trash. If you see someone picked up the item you are looking for then you can ask them if they need it. You just have to accept it when they say no. A lot of times people just pick up all the items for deconstruction.

spartaxoxo

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If they don't If someone is willing to harass you over not sharing your loot, you can bet that these people won't be going away if the addon gets banned

False. They can't harass you if they don't even know you have it. This problem is not a thing at all on console, where there are no add-ons so they can't do it.

"Did anyone get drop?"
"No."

That's how that goes. It doesn't even make logical sense that a problem caused by the information only avaiable in the add-on wouldn't go away without the add-on. Literally how would it continue?

We manage to share loot just fine. "Looking for X drop" in group chat at start and end of run. People hand you drop, usually for free. And then you're both off your merry ways.

Ratzkifal

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If they don't If someone is willing to harass you over not sharing your loot, you can bet that these people won't be going away if the addon gets banned

False. They can't harass you if they don't even know you have it. This problem is not a thing at all on console, where there are no add-ons so they can't do it.

"Did anyone get drop?"
"No."

That's how that goes.

False.

"What did you get?"
"Nothing."
"Liar! What did you get? Link it! Link it or we kick you!"

That's how that actually goes. Harassers will be harassers.

spartaxoxo

Ratzkifal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If they don't If someone is willing to harass you over not sharing your loot, you can bet that these people won't be going away if the addon gets banned

False. They can't harass you if they don't even know you have it. This problem is not a thing at all on console, where there are no add-ons so they can't do it.

"Did anyone get drop?"
"No."

That's how that goes.

False.

"What did you get?"
"Nothing."
"Liar! What did you get? Link it! Link it or we kick you!"

That's how that actually goes. Harassers will be harassers.

No. It isn't. I have played this game for many years and have accumulated an almost embarrassing amount of time on it. Not once have I experienced that, nor has anyone ever complained about it in guild or zone chat. And I have been in a lot of guilds.

Not once on ps4.

VaranisArano

TwinLamps wrote: »

Zos should not ban such addons.
People that have issues with such addons should adapt and overcome said issues.
Simly seeing anoter group member's drop is not invasion of privacy.
If you wish your drops to be unknown to others, just play solo.
Also, why is it such a problem to say no to others if you need the items you got?

I have no problems saying no. The problem is that some users of this addons won't take "No" graciously. They continue to bother me. Some beg. Some spin a sad tale about how much they need the drop (and how terrible I am for not giving it to them, when I say "No" again.) Some offer gold. Some get nasty real quick.

None of those people would be a problem for me if they didn't use an addon that let them see my drops in a way the vanilla game doesn't include, but the API allows.

Most addon users, I presume, use it appropriately and know how to accept "No" graciously.

But the relative few who don't have thoroughly tainted it for me. The addon fostered a sense that they were entitled to my loot because they could see it, and their own entitlement led them to be toxic when I said "No."


And before we go any further...
Your response that if people don't like it, they should quit group content is completely unhelpful.

Well, at least it's better than the suggestion last thread that if people didn't like it, they should quit their account on PC, and start all over on Console. But that's a really low bar you hopped over.

If you actually care to listen to why players don't enjoy having private loot drops examined by players who are usually polite but sometimes turn out to be nasty, entitled jerks who get toxic when told "No", maybe try not preemptively telling folks to quit group content. That's just not helpful.

If you want to help AND support using the addon, you'll do a lot more good speaking up against the people who turn into toxic, entitled jerks when they are told "No."

TwinLamps

Its like saying lets ban internet cause some people on it act like idiots.
Addons with group loot notification features are great source of info when it comes down to see how rare is some drop. These help a lot to players who trade as well, and asking for these to be removed because of few bad apples is just selfish to the point of questioning why would such person that wants to see addons like this policed even playing MMORPG and not a single player game.

Elsonso

TwinLamps wrote: »

Zos should not ban such addons.

I doubt that they will. ZOS added this information to the API so that a third part could write this addon. ZOS obviously does not want to write a group loot announcement feature, but they don't object to it, so this allows the players to add that functionality.

My feeling is that there should be a base game group loot notification of some sort, so that this feature spans from PC to Console. That is a lot more work for ZOS, since UI space is limited and they have to come up with a way to present this information.

Sarannah

Spy add-ons should not be allowed.
The ones spying should instead create an add-on which tells them which gear they need from which dungeon. And which will create an auto group-ask message to ask for the item.

Roztlin45

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Group loot, yes I have this one. It's handy if you're grinding for set pieces as you know who to ask after a drop. Good add on imo 👍

No such this as "group loot" . In a group it is my job to DPS, heal,or tank. Not become an extra source of loot.

This same mentality is why we have so many fake tanks. No one wants to work hard and do it the right way. They don't mind invading my account as long as it serves them,,right?

spartaxoxo

TwinLamps wrote: »

Its like saying lets ban internet cause some people on it act like idiots.

People need the internet to do their jobs in a modern society. So that they can have access to life's actual necessities like food and water. Nobody needs to peek through someone's inventory

TwinLamps

VaranisArano wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

Zos should not ban such addons.
People that have issues with such addons should adapt and overcome said issues.
Simly seeing anoter group member's drop is not invasion of privacy.
If you wish your drops to be unknown to others, just play solo.
Also, why is it such a problem to say no to others if you need the items you got?

I have no problems saying no. The problem is that some users of this addons won't take "No" graciously. They continue to bother me. Some beg. Some spin a sad tale about how much they need the drop (and how terrible I am for not giving it to them, when I say "No" again.) Some offer gold. Some get nasty real quick.

None of those people would be a problem for me if they didn't use an addon that let them see my drops in a way the vanilla game doesn't include, but the API allows.

Most addon users, I presume, use it appropriately and know how to accept "No" graciously.

But the relative few who don't have thoroughly tainted it for me. The addon fostered a sense that they were entitled to my loot because they could see it, and their own entitlement led them to be toxic when I said "No."


And before we go any further...
Your response that if people don't like it, they should quit group content is completely unhelpful.

Well, at least it's better than the suggestion last thread that if people didn't like it, they should quit their account on PC, and start all over on Console. But that's a really low bar you hopped over.

If you actually care to listen to why players don't enjoy having private loot drops examined by players who are usually polite but sometimes turn out to be nasty, entitled jerks who get toxic when told "No", maybe try not preemptively telling folks to quit group content. That's just not helpful.

If you want to help AND support using the addon, you'll do a lot more good speaking up against the people who turn into toxic, entitled jerks when they are told "No."

Just block them then.
Zos provided us all with a way to protect ourselves from people that bother us in verbal manner.
For anything beyond that type of harassment, feel free to use report player option.

Ratzkifal

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If they don't If someone is willing to harass you over not sharing your loot, you can bet that these people won't be going away if the addon gets banned

False. They can't harass you if they don't even know you have it. This problem is not a thing at all on console, where there are no add-ons so they can't do it.

"Did anyone get drop?"
"No."

That's how that goes.

False.

"What did you get?"
"Nothing."
"Liar! What did you get? Link it! Link it or we kick you!"

That's how that actually goes. Harassers will be harassers.

No. It isn't. I have played this game for many years and have accumulated an almost embarrassing amount of time on it. Not once have I experienced that, nor has anyone ever complained about it in guild chat. And I have been in a lot of guilds.

Not once

And I have not once experienced harassment over me not sharing my loot even when the other people knew what loot I got. Everyone was always polite and I've probably spent the same embarrassing amount of time on it. Can't speak for PC NA, but I doubt it's any different there.
I have faced harassment in this game over other things though. It is not the information that makes people toxic it is toxic people being the way they are.

redlink1979

If I don't link an item on group chat it's because I need it.
If others whisper to me despite I didn't linked the item(s), they will be answer in group chat with a simple "I need the item(s)"
If they're too persistent and seem to don't accept my polite answer I just reply back, on group chat or whisper if group was disbanded, "Already told you I need the item(s), please don't be that annoying person"

FantasticFreddie

People need to graciously accept a no and not fuss.
On the other hand, I run a random daily just about every day if I can and can probably count on one hand when this has actually been an issue.
For one, I don't really care about every single thing. If you whisper me because you want that tormentor restoration staff in training trait, it's all yours buddy, my inventory is jammed packed. I am not going to sit on it out of spite because someone dared to ASK.
For another, the few times I have gotten a rare drop and people really wanted it, they were very chill with being told no.
Notable examples are the Perfected False God and Perfected Siroria inferno staves, which both dropped to me not during my normal guild runs but in random pug groups where I didn't know anyone.
1 person got mildly salty asking if I had a dps (I main support roles) but everyone else stopped asking after I said I needed it
I think a lot of people bring the negativity on themselves, by going from 0-100 as soon as someone asks.
Even this op wants everyone to refuse to give up loot purely on principle.... because someone had the AUDACITY to ask.
Of course someone like that is going to have more negative interactions with people

spartaxoxo

Ratzkifal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If they don't If someone is willing to harass you over not sharing your loot, you can bet that these people won't be going away if the addon gets banned

False. They can't harass you if they don't even know you have it. This problem is not a thing at all on console, where there are no add-ons so they can't do it.

"Did anyone get drop?"
"No."

That's how that goes.

False.

"What did you get?"
"Nothing."
"Liar! What did you get? Link it! Link it or we kick you!"

That's how that actually goes. Harassers will be harassers.

No. It isn't. I have played this game for many years and have accumulated an almost embarrassing amount of time on it. Not once have I experienced that, nor has anyone ever complained about it in guild chat. And I have been in a lot of guilds.

Not once

And I have not once experienced harassment over me not sharing my loot even when the other people knew what loot I got. Everyone was always polite and I've probably spent the same embarrassing amount of time on it. Can't speak for PC NA, but I doubt it's any different there.
I have faced harassment in this game over other things though. It is not the information that makes people toxic it is toxic people being the way they are.

You haven't. But many other players have reported it, including in this very thread.

Meanwhile the example you cited doesn't exist anywhere else but your own theory on a post. This topic has brought up many times and consoles players have never described such a conversation in any significant number. I'm sure somebody somewhere did, but there it's an extremely low number. Meanwhile every single thread about this add-on includes MULTIPLE reports of people who have been harassed over loot.

A good faith argument acknowledges both the pros and cons of their argument, and doesn't just reject information because it's inconvenient to their argument.

Just as it's a fact that I must concede that many players find this Add-on useful, and are polite to others who don't mind sharing. You must concede that on console, where there is no such add-on, there is NO significant loot sharing harassment problem. Because there is not. Those two things are facts and are independent of our own feelings on the issue.

Ratzkifal

Sarannah wrote: »

Spy add-ons should not be allowed.
The ones spying should instead create an add-on which tells them which gear they need from which dungeon. And which will create an auto group-ask message to ask for the item.

While I disagree that this addon is a "spy addon", I do like your suggestion for an addon that asks for the gear you still need. I'd consider using an addon like that because even if I can see everyone else's loot I will still tell people ahead of time what I need and sometimes that's quite the complicated description.

Ratzkifal

redlink1979 wrote: »

If I don't link an item on group chat it's because I need it.
If others whisper to me despite I didn't linked the item(s), they will be answer in group chat with a simple "I need the item(s)"
If they're too persistent and seem to don't accept my polite answer I just reply back, on group chat or whisper if group was disbanded, "Already told you I need the item(s), please don't be that annoying person"

If I don't link an item on group chat it's because it's trash that nobody would ever want unless it's for collection or some very weird build I am too small brain to understand. Or I need it (but sometimes I link it even then to let my buddies know I'm dropping out of the farm run, because I got what I came for). If people ask me for the trash item or if they tell me they need all items from the set, no matter which, for their collection, then i will link them and trade them of course. Otherwise I'll just pick it all up for decon or not pick it up at all if my inventory is full.
Not all players operate the same.

VaranisArano

TwinLamps wrote: »

Its like saying lets ban internet cause some people on it act like idiots.
Addons with group loot notification features are great source of info when it comes down to see how rare is some drop. These help a lot to players who trade as well, and asking for these to be removed because of few bad apples is just selfish to the point of questioning why would such person that wants to see addons like this policed even playing MMORPG and not a single player game.

Okay, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but I see we've escalated to saying that if people don't like this addon because they've met some jerks, that you question why they are playing ESO, and haven't quit to go play a singleplayer game.

Oh boy.

Look, ZOS does have an interest in moderating their own game to prevent jerks from ruining the experience for everyone.
That's why they don't allow gear-checking addons, because jerks would use it to ruin the experience for people.
That's why they nixed an addon that allowed real-time DPS tracking for individuals, because they were concerned that jerks would kick players based on the first trash pull.
That's why ESO Logs is explicitly after-the-fact and anonymous by default, because the community wanted anonymity and the Devs wanted to make sure it wasn't used to make snap judgements.

This isn't the Wild West. ZOS takes an active role in moderating their game and addons.

And you should take this as a warning - if the community is bothered enough by toxic jerks who won't take "No" for an answer, then the addon's capacity might be curtailed. Other addons have been. Just because something is in the API doesn't mean it'll be there forever if it causes a big enough problem.

An easy way for ZOS to do it would be to remove individuality from the loot log. As in: you can see WHAT dropped, but not WHO has it. You'd have to ask in group chat, and the individual who has it could offer it or ignore you as they pleased.

Suddenly, there's much less potential for harassment. It also makes the addon less useful for the people who'd been using it politely and appropriately.

So again, if you really want to help AND support using the addon, your best bet is to speak up against the toxic, entitled jerks. It's really unhelpful to your case to defend letting those guys carry on while telling people who don't like dealing with toxic, entitled jerks that you question why they are even playing ESO.

Because I like ESO. And I think that if anyone needs to change their behavior to use addons appropriately, it's the entitled jerks who apparently can't handle playing nicely with others in an MMORPG.

FantasticFreddie

Ratzkifal wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

If I don't link an item on group chat it's because I need it.
If others whisper to me despite I didn't linked the item(s), they will be answer in group chat with a simple "I need the item(s)"
If they're too persistent and seem to don't accept my polite answer I just reply back, on group chat or whisper if group was disbanded, "Already told you I need the item(s), please don't be that annoying person"

If I don't link an item on group chat it's because it's trash that nobody would ever want unless it's for collection or some very weird build I am too small brain to understand. Or I need it (but sometimes I link it even then to let my buddies know I'm dropping out of the farm run, because I got what I came for). If people ask me for the trash item or if they tell me they need all items from the set, no matter which, for their collection, then i will link them and trade them of course. Otherwise I'll just pick it all up for decon or not pick it up at all if my inventory is full.
Not all players operate the same.

Yeah I am not going to sit there and list a light speaker greatsword.