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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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Harpooner’s Wading Kilt and Stamina problems

Rureczka
Rureczka
Soul Shriven
The stamina currently is lacking in power due to lesser damage overall(which we compensate with relequen procs which is broken now anyways resulting in half damage cut) and a need of building group setups specifically for stamina. What I mean is that for magicka you need not use very specific sets to their boost the performance, while for stamina it is a NEED to become competitive. The biggest problem is that you need lots of penetration to reach the cap, cause as of now both alkosh and tremorscale are needed and yet even then it does not guarantee penetration cap and the dps difference between mag and stam dds is still steep in disfavor for the latter. Also that piercing change is laughable. It doesn't really affect magickas but even further increases the gap. Bravo!

Not so long ago there happened a change of a nerf nature to critical chance and critical damage of all sets that possessed them and CP1.0. It was said to reduce the overall numbers of those so that other stats wouldn't fall too behind, to give a wider choice for players and to force a general loss of power. And yet here you introduce a 1piece set that gives an incredible boost to both crit chance and crit damage. Isn't it a bit, I don't know, contrary to your former intentions?
Also that mythic is inherently of medium weight implying it would be used to give staminas that extra edge to keep up with magickas. And yet it still works just as good for the latter.

Having those problems stated I'd suggest to revamp this set, or at least change one of its components. Instead of having, say, extra critical damage per stage, why not give it some penetration? This way it won't be forced on the magicka setups as much but will still help a whole lot for all the staminas while keeping them on a somewhat competitive level.
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    As ranged mag DD its easier to avoid direct dmg so its probably stronger for mag than stam. I would run the set on either because its just too good, even if you occasionally drop a couple stack its probably still better than a monster set.

    The problem with giving it pen instead of crit chance is that would make it really strong for PVP and I think there is enough dmg going on there. The idea of making it more attractive for stam could help the balance, maybe half crit chance value and a reasonable amount of offensive pen instead of just crit change?
    PC - EU (AD)
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
    Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
    Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
    Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    I am looking forward to wearing this on my Bow/Bow build. As you pointed out, ranged dps has an advantage here so Bow/Bow will shine with this, especially considering that most stamina monster sets just don't really work at range.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • karekiz
    karekiz
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    Rureczka wrote: »
    Isn't it a bit, I don't know, contrary to your former intentions?
    Also that mythic is inherently of medium weight implying it would be used to give staminas that extra edge to keep up with magickas. And yet it still works just as good for the latter.

    Before that they said dmg for top end was way too high and introduced Frenzy + ROTPO.

    Before that they said dmg was still too high and introduced Stranglers.

    Mythics have and always have been power creep selling points.
    Edited by karekiz on April 28, 2021 4:16PM
  • Purereality
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    The current game direction ZoS is and has been taking the game is rather frustrating. No one should have to suffer in PvE just because PvP exists or vice/versa, otherwise, why not just inform players to go stam if they want to do PvP or mag if they want to do PvE. Stam has to be built around to be viable in end-game content which is ridiculous. This just causes a further divide in the endgame community since having a mixed group will never be as effective as having all mag. It also hurts the growth of the community as newer players who want to play stam will immediately be told that they'd be better off as mag, which should never be the case for an MMO. Having certain classes be more meta than others is expected, but having an entire playstyle be unviable in a large portion of the game is unacceptable.
  • Rureczka
    Rureczka
    Soul Shriven
    I'd also want to take a closer look at support sets that are currently in game:
    We have Z'en which boosts Everyone's dps by a whole lot, used by magdk;
    We have Catalyst which again gives huge buff to Everyone, used by magnecro;
    We have MK, used by healer or magclass;
    We have Behemoth which boosts every mag class due to everyone using flame stick, used by a tank.

    Where are stam support sets I ask? Tremorscale that is Needed for stamina to reach the cap and which doesn't give damage boost on its own? Morag Tong which gives more damage to only 2 stam classes out of which one is the worst dps in game - stamdk?
    Give some love to stam classes please, at least make a support set so a stam would be actually wanted in group.
  • Sun7dance
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    Rureczka wrote: »
    I'd also want to take a closer look at support sets that are currently in game:
    We have Z'en which boosts Everyone's dps by a whole lot, used by magdk;
    We have Catalyst which again gives huge buff to Everyone, used by magnecro;
    We have MK, used by healer or magclass;
    We have Behemoth which boosts every mag class due to everyone using flame stick, used by a tank.

    Where are stam support sets I ask? Tremorscale that is Needed for stamina to reach the cap and which doesn't give damage boost on its own? Morag Tong which gives more damage to only 2 stam classes out of which one is the worst dps in game - stamdk?
    Give some love to stam classes please, at least make a support set so a stam would be actually wanted in group.

    At least Staminas have Kinra's now.
    But it was very funny to read, that many players still think this set would be too strong and should be nerfed.

    You know what?
    This set needs a buff instead of a nerf! Minor Berserk should be replaced by a value or a pen debuff, so it would stack with everything.

    ZOS nerfed Stamina support sets to the ground (Night Mother/Sunderflame), but gave Magickas more and more support over time.

    That's not all! Instead of finally giving us balance, they released Vatheshran! Congratulations!

    Edited by Sun7dance on April 29, 2021 11:12AM
    PS5|EU
  • MarioMario
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    ...
    The problem with giving it pen instead of crit chance is that would make it really strong for PVP ...

    Imho, there's no way this can be used in cyro, bg or even 1vs1.
  • jaysins
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    Brought up a similar observation with harpooner's here and I do think the set will be very strong in PvP as well with certain group compositions and playstyles. I'll post the link here as not to repeat myself https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/571825/crit-chance-sets-change-to-harpooners-wading-kilt#latest. Almost 100% uptime of so much crit and crit damage is so backwards to what they've stated their goals are regarding critical damage it feels like no thought went into how the set will affect balance.
    Jaisins -AD Stamsorc. Can't outrun an orc sorc
    Bearingitall -EP Warden. Lions and tigers and especially Bears oh my
  • goldenarcher1
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    Can we not just buff the sharpened trait?
  • Rureczka
    Rureczka
    Soul Shriven
    Can we not just buff the sharpened trait?

    That won't do unfortunately. Even if you increased it to about 6000 penetration, which is currently needed for Staminas to reach the cap, we'd still lose precise trait which is huge. And yet even if we had precise built-in, we'd still most likely fall short to the Magickas. There's needed a completely different approach or even some overhaul.
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