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Most nerfed class?
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HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭TemplarI've been keeping a list. My Templar healers have suffered more than five dozen nerfs since launch. Now, not all of those nerfs were entirely class-related, but clearly healers in general and Templar-healers in particular have been over-nerf'd since launch.6 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DragonknightDK didnt get cost increase or sideways nerfs from something like shields being changed as a whole, it lost entire functionality of the class as a whole, through game choices and direct removal.
wings used to reflect.
chains had vertical targeting.
leap had vertical targeting.
talons had no immobilize cd.
dynamic ult gen was the core of its resource regen.
corrosive armor used to effect dot damage not just direct. (dot class btw)
flame lash had no cd on secondary hit.
inhale was worth slotting as draw essence restored magicka based on % damage dealt.
venomous claw and noxious breath had red flames rather then baby green. (still upset about this)
molten armaments had an execute effect.
fragmented shield dealt damage.
obsidian shield ally shield strength was also based on DK hp, DK's used to shield tank the whole raid group.
helping hands was % stamina restore not static value
battle roar was % not static value.
warden did not exist
necro did not exist
et
cetra
This. There is no other class nerfed so badly.
P.S you forgot the old AoE inferno which was given to Sorcs, Ash cloud had a miss chance. Magma armor had longer duration, Talons had 8m radius.Edited by Bashev on April 28, 2021 3:26PMBecause I can!7 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NightbladeOutside of cloak, nightblades have very little to offer.
Templars still have cool heals.
DKs still have tanking elements.
Sorcs have pets.
But outside of its almost signature cloak ability, NB’s are just boring. My nightblades are mostly filled weapon and guild skills. It just feels like there is nothing special left about it.
Generic is a great way to describe my feelings about it.6 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DragonknightDK didnt get cost increase or sideways nerfs from something like shields being changed as a whole, it lost entire functionality of the class as a whole, through game choices and direct removal.
wings used to reflect.
chains had vertical targeting.
leap had vertical targeting.
talons had no immobilize cd.
dynamic ult gen was the core of its resource regen.
corrosive armor used to effect dot damage not just direct. (dot class btw)
flame lash had no cd on secondary hit.
inhale was worth slotting as draw essence restored magicka based on % damage dealt.
venomous claw and noxious breath had red flames rather then baby green. (still upset about this)
molten armaments had an execute effect.
fragmented shield dealt damage.
obsidian shield ally shield strength was also based on DK hp, DK's used to shield tank the whole raid group.
helping hands was % stamina restore not static value
battle roar was % not static value.
warden did not exist
necro did not exist
et
cetra
This. There is no other class nerfed so badly.
P.S you forgot the old AoE inferno which was given to Sorcs, Ash cloud had a miss chance. Magma armor had longer duration, Talons had 8m radius.
Banner was cheaper too.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeNB's offensive toolkit has been gutted over the years, and a few things that gave the class it's identity over other classes were then given to everyone. The point of playing a stealth class (Like Rogue, Shadowblade, Nightblade, Assassin, etc) is that you are a 100% damage based, one trick pony, where your burst damage is tied to stealth. But if everyone has the same stealth capabilities as you, and stealth (cloak specifically) does not function correctly), you're stuck with the downsides of playing a glass canon class with none of the upsides working for you.
I still play it because it's still the best ganking class (so far), but these days I've seen sorc and necro gank almost as well, which is troublesome. Other classes should be able to gank, but should not come close in capabilities as a NB...because that is NB's main attraction. The other main attraction of stealth classes in MMORPG's is stun locking, and of course poisons/dots. But in ESO, NB's don't really do those things any better than anyone else. We don't have the best CC in the game, and there are better dot classes such as Necro and DK.
So what do we excel at better than every other class? We have the WoW equivalent of vanish, or STO equivalent of battle cloak...which doesn't even work 30% of the time. That doesn't mean they are a useless class or that you can't be successful on one...but ESO went from a game where picking a class meant picking which toolkit you wanted as a base starting point, to picking which spell or two you wanted because every class gets something similar to the rest of your toolkit.
We're supposed to be able to pop out of the shadows, kill one person, pop back in and gtho. Think Nightcrawler from the first X-Men movie. We have to invest a lot into damage, so if we make a mistake or overextend ourselves and get caught out of stealth, we can get severly punished for it...which is how it should work when running a gank setup. They've just made it harder and harder for this playstyle to work well, which is why anyone who says ganking on a NB takes no skill has either never actually played one in open world, or have only ganked players running PVE templates.
It's a playstyle that you may not love, but other people do, and NB imo has had the most things stripped or nerfed from it since launch.3 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DragonknightHands down, NB. If you've played NB at all, you know this too.
It is clear that you started ESO late. NB was the most broken class at launch, and by broken I mean that half of the passives and skills did not work correctly. They were really bad. Later they receive a lot of buffs, a lot. How can anyone say that this class is the most nerfed class, that is something that I really cannot understand.Because I can!3 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭DragonknightPretty sure Templar and Dragonknight are tied for the most nerfed/barest functional classes. DKs especially have been the whipping boy for over a year and a half.
Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TemplarOutside of cloak, nightblades have very little to offer.
Templars still have cool heals.
DKs still have tanking elements.
Sorcs have pets.
But outside of its almost signature cloak ability, NB’s are just boring. My nightblades are mostly filled weapon and guild skills. It just feels like there is nothing special left about it.
Generic is a great way to describe my feelings about it.
But for some reason I get more kills on my stamblade, go figure.Edited by TequilaFire on April 28, 2021 4:01PM2 -
dotme✭✭✭✭✭
✭NightbladeStam NB used to be a stealth, single target assassin. Don't know what it is any more. All squish and no punch perhaps.PS4NA5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NightbladeTequilaFire wrote: »Outside of cloak, nightblades have very little to offer.
Templars still have cool heals.
DKs still have tanking elements.
Sorcs have pets.
But outside of its almost signature cloak ability, NB’s are just boring. My nightblades are mostly filled weapon and guild skills. It just feels like there is nothing special left about it.
Generic is a great way to describe my feelings about it.
But for some reason I get more kills on my stamblade, go figure.
./Shrug. I don’t like pvp in any game. For those times I have to go into a pvp area (Midyear Mayhem) I just use cloak to avoid fights while I do a scout mission.
In pve nb’s abilities (outside of cloak) are outclassed by skills I can get elsewhere.
1 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DragonknightDK
NB
Sorc
TemplarGrand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TemplarTequilaFire wrote: »Outside of cloak, nightblades have very little to offer.
Templars still have cool heals.
DKs still have tanking elements.
Sorcs have pets.
But outside of its almost signature cloak ability, NB’s are just boring. My nightblades are mostly filled weapon and guild skills. It just feels like there is nothing special left about it.
Generic is a great way to describe my feelings about it.
But for some reason I get more kills on my stamblade, go figure.
./Shrug. I don’t like pvp in any game. For those times I have to go into a pvp area (Midyear Mayhem) I just use cloak to avoid fights while I do a scout mission.
In pve nb’s abilities (outside of cloak) are outclassed by skills I can get elsewhere.
I am the opposite, I rarely use cloak, play more of a brawler blade.
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xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭NightbladeJust look at the PTS patchnotes and tell me which class of the non DLC ones got a random nerf and thats your answer.5 -
jssriot✭✭✭✭✭
✭DragonknightDK are hurting so bad right now. At least with NBs it's mainly magbaldes that are in a poorly state. Templars are getting some love with Blackwood, lest ZOS change their minds, but DK is very much the neglect child in this family at the moment.PC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.8 -
Hexquisite✭✭✭✭TemplarTemplar and Nightblade tied really.
I think a lot of people on forums only think of Templar in terms of DPS, but forget that many Templars are pure healers--and when you combine the DPS nerfs and the Heal nerfs on Templar since launch it is a lot.
While NB has faced many, many changes, I am surprised about the NB comments of them not being viable. Both Mag and Stamblade are pretty amazing in pvp atm. I watch Magblades that run in organized groups just take out massive numbers. Stamblade even without proc sets doing ridiculous damage 14- 16 K executioners, but stamblades use a lot of skills outside the NB kit, however they have strong NB passives.
And in PVE Vet Dungeons, stamblade and Magblade have been doing awesome, maybe it is the players I run with, and not the class.Edited by Hexquisite on April 28, 2021 4:39PMPC NA~Ethereal Traders Union~~Spicy Economics~~Tropic Thunder~~Us Ghosts~3 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭NightbladeDK are hurting so bad right now. At least with NBs it's mainly magbaldes that are in a poorly state. Templars are getting some love with Blackwood, lest ZOS change their minds, but DK is very much the neglect child in this family at the moment.
I dont get this sentiment, are we talking PvP or PvE?
PvE nightblades arent desired in endgame content / trial score-runs at all. DK at least still is used as a tank.
PvP wise solo DKs arent "good" but still very lethal as DoT builds in a 1v1 and they are still strong in group-play as well. NB is only good as a solo stamnb and thats only when the class skills work (cloak).3 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭NightbladeHands down, NB. If you've played NB at all, you know this too.
It is clear that you started ESO late. NB was the most broken class at launch, and by broken I mean that half of the passives and skills did not work correctly. They were really bad. Later they receive a lot of buffs, a lot. How can anyone say that this class is the most nerfed class, that is something that I really cannot understand.
I started playing at the beginning of Morrowind, so my perception might be a bit skewed. Still, NB has the biggest laundry list of nerfs in the past. Incap being the main reason ult cast times were introduced, cloak losing a cleanse, the changes to surprise attack, the entirety of magblade, melee magblade, etc. There's just no contest in my eyes.NeRf MaGsOrC2 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DragonknightHands down, NB. If you've played NB at all, you know this too.
It is clear that you started ESO late. NB was the most broken class at launch, and by broken I mean that half of the passives and skills did not work correctly. They were really bad. Later they receive a lot of buffs, a lot. How can anyone say that this class is the most nerfed class, that is something that I really cannot understand.
I started playing at the beginning of Morrowind, so my perception might be a bit skewed. Still, NB has the biggest laundry list of nerfs in the past. Incap being the main reason ult cast times were introduced, cloak losing a cleanse, the changes to surprise attack, the entirety of magblade, melee magblade, etc. There's just no contest in my eyes.
Because you have no idea how OP were DKs. You had to bring 5 sNBs if you wanted to kill a mDK
Because I can!1 -
Erelah✭✭✭✭DragonknightGrandchamp1989 wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »Hard to decide between sorc and dk, but I guess I go for sorc.
- They could get enough ultimate cost reduction to have the batswarm ultimate permanently active.
- Magicka was a lot stronger than stamina, which made negate much more powerful in pvp than today.
- If you had 2-3 Sorcs in your group, you could chain your negates to have an area permanently negated.
- You could negate trial boss mechanics.
- Streak didn't get a cost increase for rapeated use.
- Shields weren't capped to max hp and only scaled with max magicka.
Am I reading this right?! All these sound like OP broken mechanics to me, low-key exploits! Thank the Divines and all the Stars in the sky that these were removed from the game!
Meanwhile "Templar got more than 1 functional skill? Neeeerf it!"
Templar must forever be the one-skill class.
I originally was thinking Templar, however it was always the class the ZOS ignored and we begged for a buff.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TemplarGrandchamp1989 wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »Hard to decide between sorc and dk, but I guess I go for sorc.
- They could get enough ultimate cost reduction to have the batswarm ultimate permanently active.
- Magicka was a lot stronger than stamina, which made negate much more powerful in pvp than today.
- If you had 2-3 Sorcs in your group, you could chain your negates to have an area permanently negated.
- You could negate trial boss mechanics.
- Streak didn't get a cost increase for rapeated use.
- Shields weren't capped to max hp and only scaled with max magicka.
Am I reading this right?! All these sound like OP broken mechanics to me, low-key exploits! Thank the Divines and all the Stars in the sky that these were removed from the game!
Meanwhile "Templar got more than 1 functional skill? Neeeerf it!"
Templar must forever be the one-skill class.
Agreed. Any, even mildly effective, way to play the class outside of poking things with your stick is almost always immediately nerfed into nonexistence. They should literally just rename that class the pointy stick class, because anything outside of that one narrow way to play the class the developers will constantly seek to abolish.
I've been playing this class since beta and I've lost count how many times my entire play style has been deleted. So I don't know how this is even a contest. The Templar is hands down the most heavily nerfed class on this game. The blatant contempt for it is obvious.Edited by Jeremy on April 28, 2021 8:13PM6 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭DragonknightI think it's clear that the people responding feel that base classes are getting hammered far more than the dlc classes.
Perhaps we should be asking ZOS to a soft reboot of all classes so that all six fit into ZOS' design philosophy?2 -
Dragonknightidk, when I saw the heavy/medium/light armor specialization got axed I just kind of stared dumbly wondering how anyone would stan for it.
Do magic casters even get any skin hardening abilities and such?Karliah, when will you learn?!!1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladexI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Just look at the PTS patchnotes and tell me which class of the non DLC ones got a random nerf and thats your answer.
See, you know what's up.0 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeI could write an entire book on all the unwarranted nerfs they imposed on Nightblades over the years but I'll stick to the current issues which stand out today. Most of them have to do with non-class abilities being superior in both theme and function to Nightblades' abilities. They systematically gutted any and all identity or uniqueness from Nightblades and gave those aspects to non-class skill lines and other classes.
1. Sorcs inherited a skill so similar to Grim Focus (Bound Armaments) that it probably still has portions of copy-pasted code to go along with it. This wouldn't be so bad if it had not come right after a slew of other tiresom nerfs and 'reworks'.
2. Fighter's Guild received a better version of NBs' on-demand fear effect but with tons of extra bonuses on it. Turn Evil has the same fear effect but without a target limit, grants Minor Protection AND Minor Endurance, and also grants more weapon power from passives. There's no reason to use the Nightblade fear now.
3. KILLER'S BLADE, a skill that is literally about executing a single target, within the epitome of an assassin/shadowmage class, is a pitifully weak skill compared to Reverse Slash and that just feels thematically flawed. Not only is Reverse Slash cheaper after passives, it also starts executing earlier at double the threshold than Killer's Blade (50% hp vs 25% hp). Reverse Slash can also gain a higher execute bonus multiplier or splash damage from its morphs, and has additional damage from enchantments making it far superior. Meanwhile Killer's Blade grants us a heal-on-kill (useless without adds) and a negligible 1.9% crit rating for slotting it via NB passives... laughably bad for an assassin class skill.
4. Cannot pre-buff with Brutality/Sorcery before a battle anymore. NB used to be able to pre-buff before a battle without additional skill lines but now both of those buffs have been moved to Drain Power. The problem is, that requires you to attack a target with a melee skill. So if you play any form of ranged build on a NB, you are forced to grab outside sources of Brutality/Sorcery which is kind of stupid when classes like Warden can pre-buff Netch for Major Brutality/Sorcery, get a free purge every 5 seconds, and recover resources at absolutely 0 cost... They should just put Brutality/Sorcery on Siphoning Strikes already because it could never be any more overloaded than the Netch currently is.
5. NB's Ultimates are terrible compared to other skill lines in pvp. Ultimates got nerfed so bad over the years a lot of them don't feel rewarding anymore and you are often better off using non-class ultimates. Death Stroke was supposed to be this hard-hitting, single target killer that made an impact but with the added cast times, nerfs to damage, nerfs to stuns these days, it's rare to land it effectively in pvp. It's kind of dumb that Dawnbreaker is a more powerful ultimate than Death Stroke now since it is AOE.
6. Minor Vulnerability used to be exclusive to Nightblade, but then they gave it to Warden and Necro, while also giving Necro exclusivity to Major Vulnerability... Not much left to steal from Nightblades now, eh?4 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeOh, and to add to my previous post, Reaper's Mark is utterly pointless with the nerf to Major Berserk and outsourcing of that effect.1 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorcererlolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »Hard to decide between sorc and dk, but I guess I go for sorc.
- They could get enough ultimate cost reduction to have the batswarm ultimate permanently active.
- Magicka was a lot stronger than stamina, which made negate much more powerful in pvp than today.
- If you had 2-3 Sorcs in your group, you could chain your negates to have an area permanently negated.
- You could negate trial boss mechanics.
- Streak didn't get a cost increase for rapeated use.
- Shields weren't capped to max hp and only scaled with max magicka.
And frags used to stun 😅"Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DragonknightJoy_Division wrote: »1. DK
2. Templar
3. Nightblade
4. Sorcerer
My List exactly!!!
DK admittedly had the furthest to fall, but fall it did. DK in the 1.5ish era was the most god tier class we have ever had and they are hardly OP at the moment. They need some love.
Templar has frankly been nerfed nearly as much but they just didnt start as high. Templar I think got the worst of the Necro Warden releases. They seemed to take from templar to give to Chapter Classes, especially in the support department.
Nightblade is a "shadow" of its former self. For a long time it had one of the highest ceilings but was also the most difficult playstyle, so I never had much of a problem with them from a balance perspective. Now, unless I am grinding mobs or just want a toon for fast random normals (or even solo normal dungeons), they arent worth much other than a PVP bomber (which currently is not an options without proc sets).
Sorcs, people act like they have been god tier since launch, but man have the been gutted over the years. Sorcs have always felt like the counter to nightblades, easier to play, but lower ceiling. That was true for a long time, but admittedly, sorc has pulled ahead for most things and are flat out easier to play. Most sorc rage boils down to a L2P issue if I am being honest. Sorcs are probably the best pug killers in PVP and the easiest class to break into end game DPS in PVE, so naturally, they are in the spotlight.2
