Wing wrote: »

DK didnt get cost increase or sideways nerfs from something like shields being changed as a whole, it lost entire functionality of the class as a whole, through game choices and direct removal.

wings used to reflect.
chains had vertical targeting.
leap had vertical targeting.
talons had no immobilize cd.
dynamic ult gen was the core of its resource regen.
corrosive armor used to effect dot damage not just direct. (dot class btw)
flame lash had no cd on secondary hit.
inhale was worth slotting as draw essence restored magicka based on % damage dealt.
venomous claw and noxious breath had red flames rather then baby green. (still upset about this)
molten armaments had an execute effect.
fragmented shield dealt damage.
obsidian shield ally shield strength was also based on DK hp, DK's used to shield tank the whole raid group.
helping hands was % stamina restore not static value
battle roar was % not static value.
warden did not exist
necro did not exist

et
cetra

This. There is no other class nerfed so badly.

P.S you forgot the old AoE inferno which was given to Sorcs, Ash cloud had a miss chance. Magma armor had longer duration, Talons had 8m radius.

Bashev wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

DK didnt get cost increase or sideways nerfs from something like shields being changed as a whole, it lost entire functionality of the class as a whole, through game choices and direct removal.

wings used to reflect.
chains had vertical targeting.
leap had vertical targeting.
talons had no immobilize cd.
dynamic ult gen was the core of its resource regen.
corrosive armor used to effect dot damage not just direct. (dot class btw)
flame lash had no cd on secondary hit.
inhale was worth slotting as draw essence restored magicka based on % damage dealt.
venomous claw and noxious breath had red flames rather then baby green. (still upset about this)
molten armaments had an execute effect.
fragmented shield dealt damage.
obsidian shield ally shield strength was also based on DK hp, DK's used to shield tank the whole raid group.
helping hands was % stamina restore not static value
battle roar was % not static value.
warden did not exist
necro did not exist

et
cetra

This. There is no other class nerfed so badly.

P.S you forgot the old AoE inferno which was given to Sorcs, Ash cloud had a miss chance. Magma armor had longer duration, Talons had 8m radius.

Banner was cheaper too.

Hands down, NB. If you've played NB at all, you know this too.

Rahar wrote: »

Hands down, NB. If you've played NB at all, you know this too.

It is clear that you started ESO late. NB was the most broken class at launch, and by broken I mean that half of the passives and skills did not work correctly. They were really bad. Later they receive a lot of buffs, a lot. How can anyone say that this class is the most nerfed class, that is something that I really cannot understand.

TequilaFire wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Outside of cloak, nightblades have very little to offer.

Templars still have cool heals.
DKs still have tanking elements.
Sorcs have pets.

But outside of its almost signature cloak ability, NB’s are just boring. My nightblades are mostly filled weapon and guild skills. It just feels like there is nothing special left about it.

Generic is a great way to describe my feelings about it.

But for some reason I get more kills on my stamblade, go figure.

./Shrug. I don’t like pvp in any game. For those times I have to go into a pvp area (Midyear Mayhem) I just use cloak to avoid fights while I do a scout mission.

In pve nb’s abilities (outside of cloak) are outclassed by skills I can get elsewhere.

DK are hurting so bad right now. At least with NBs it's mainly magbaldes that are in a poorly state. Templars are getting some love with Blackwood, lest ZOS change their minds, but DK is very much the neglect child in this family at the moment.

jssriot wrote: »

DK are hurting so bad right now. At least with NBs it's mainly magbaldes that are in a poorly state. Templars are getting some love with Blackwood, lest ZOS change their minds, but DK is very much the neglect child in this family at the moment.

I dont get this sentiment, are we talking PvP or PvE?
PvE nightblades arent desired in endgame content / trial score-runs at all. DK at least still is used as a tank.
PvP wise solo DKs arent "good" but still very lethal as DoT builds in a 1v1 and they are still strong in group-play as well. NB is only good as a solo stamnb and thats only when the class skills work (cloak).

Rahar wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Hands down, NB. If you've played NB at all, you know this too.

It is clear that you started ESO late. NB was the most broken class at launch, and by broken I mean that half of the passives and skills did not work correctly. They were really bad. Later they receive a lot of buffs, a lot. How can anyone say that this class is the most nerfed class, that is something that I really cannot understand.

I started playing at the beginning of Morrowind, so my perception might be a bit skewed. Still, NB has the biggest laundry list of nerfs in the past. Incap being the main reason ult cast times were introduced, cloak losing a cleanse, the changes to surprise attack, the entirety of magblade, melee magblade, etc. There's just no contest in my eyes.

Because you have no idea how OP were DKs. You had to bring 5 sNBs if you wanted to kill a mDK

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Hard to decide between sorc and dk, but I guess I go for sorc.
- They could get enough ultimate cost reduction to have the batswarm ultimate permanently active.
- Magicka was a lot stronger than stamina, which made negate much more powerful in pvp than today.
- If you had 2-3 Sorcs in your group, you could chain your negates to have an area permanently negated.
- You could negate trial boss mechanics.
- Streak didn't get a cost increase for rapeated use.
- Shields weren't capped to max hp and only scaled with max magicka.

Am I reading this right?! All these sound like OP broken mechanics to me, low-key exploits! Thank the Divines and all the Stars in the sky that these were removed from the game!

Meanwhile "Templar got more than 1 functional skill? Neeeerf it!"

Templar must forever be the one-skill class.

Agreed. Any, even mildly effective, way to play the class outside of poking things with your stick is almost always immediately nerfed into nonexistence. They should literally just rename that class the pointy stick class, because anything outside of that one narrow way to play the class the developers will constantly seek to abolish.

I've been playing this class since beta and I've lost count how many times my entire play style has been deleted. So I don't know how this is even a contest. The Templar is hands down the most heavily nerfed class on this game. The blatant contempt for it is obvious.

idk, when I saw the heavy/medium/light armor specialization got axed I just kind of stared dumbly wondering how anyone would stan for it.

Do magic casters even get any skin hardening abilities and such?

I could write an entire book on all the unwarranted nerfs they imposed on Nightblades over the years but I'll stick to the current issues which stand out today. Most of them have to do with non-class abilities being superior in both theme and function to Nightblades' abilities. They systematically gutted any and all identity or uniqueness from Nightblades and gave those aspects to non-class skill lines and other classes.

1. Sorcs inherited a skill so similar to Grim Focus (Bound Armaments) that it probably still has portions of copy-pasted code to go along with it. This wouldn't be so bad if it had not come right after a slew of other tiresom nerfs and 'reworks'.

2. Fighter's Guild received a better version of NBs' on-demand fear effect but with tons of extra bonuses on it. Turn Evil has the same fear effect but without a target limit, grants Minor Protection AND Minor Endurance, and also grants more weapon power from passives. There's no reason to use the Nightblade fear now.

3. KILLER'S BLADE, a skill that is literally about executing a single target, within the epitome of an assassin/shadowmage class, is a pitifully weak skill compared to Reverse Slash and that just feels thematically flawed. Not only is Reverse Slash cheaper after passives, it also starts executing earlier at double the threshold than Killer's Blade (50% hp vs 25% hp). Reverse Slash can also gain a higher execute bonus multiplier or splash damage from its morphs, and has additional damage from enchantments making it far superior. Meanwhile Killer's Blade grants us a heal-on-kill (useless without adds) and a negligible 1.9% crit rating for slotting it via NB passives... laughably bad for an assassin class skill.

4. Cannot pre-buff with Brutality/Sorcery before a battle anymore. NB used to be able to pre-buff before a battle without additional skill lines but now both of those buffs have been moved to Drain Power. The problem is, that requires you to attack a target with a melee skill. So if you play any form of ranged build on a NB, you are forced to grab outside sources of Brutality/Sorcery which is kind of stupid when classes like Warden can pre-buff Netch for Major Brutality/Sorcery, get a free purge every 5 seconds, and recover resources at absolutely 0 cost... They should just put Brutality/Sorcery on Siphoning Strikes already because it could never be any more overloaded than the Netch currently is.

5. NB's Ultimates are terrible compared to other skill lines in pvp. Ultimates got nerfed so bad over the years a lot of them don't feel rewarding anymore and you are often better off using non-class ultimates. Death Stroke was supposed to be this hard-hitting, single target killer that made an impact but with the added cast times, nerfs to damage, nerfs to stuns these days, it's rare to land it effectively in pvp. It's kind of dumb that Dawnbreaker is a more powerful ultimate than Death Stroke now since it is AOE.

6. Minor Vulnerability used to be exclusive to Nightblade, but then they gave it to Warden and Necro, while also giving Necro exclusivity to Major Vulnerability... Not much left to steal from Nightblades now, eh?

Oh, and to add to my previous post, Reaper's Mark is utterly pointless with the nerf to Major Berserk and outsourcing of that effect.