The real problem with combat in Overland

Daraklus · April 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

...you'd figure that as you get your character stronger, the world would get stronger with you as well.

Why would you figure that? There have never been any claims that this is how ESO works. I don't know any MMO where the base world continues to get harder. Why would ESO be any different?

World of Warcraft comes to mind, where somehow even when you gear yourself up, the enemies you face in the open world still put up a fight as they scale up with you. To an upper limit, at least, there does come a point where enemies don't pose a substantial threat to anyone who pays some attention to their surroundings. You know, not exactly massively dangerous, but they'll still kill you if you don't try fighting them off or run away. Something I can't quite agree to be the reality for ESO.

And why would ESO be any different? I 'unno, people would probably be a bit happier for starters and you wouldn't see so many people making threads saying "Overland is easy, please buff it", if they got stronger and saw that the enemies still manage to put up a bit of a fight against them

Folkb · April 2021

Overland is fine imo. I remember when I played around launch and I ended up just avoiding mobs because it just felt like a hassle and chore to fight something you didnt need to fight.

Daraklus · April 2021

Folkb wrote: »

Overland is fine imo. I remember when I played around launch and I ended up just avoiding mobs because it just felt like a hassle and chore to fight something you didnt need to fight.

"On launch."

Yeah, it was good on launch and the Veteran Ranks were also pretty good. Nowadays you are effectively treated to a case of "Well... The world is pretty much static to your character while your character can become as big and powerful as possible while the world doesn't change much". At least back before One Tamriel you could be underleveled for a zone and then have things tear you apart if you weren't prepared.

I 'member... It was a good time.

SilverBride · April 2021

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

...you'd figure that as you get your character stronger, the world would get stronger with you as well.

Why would you figure that? There have never been any claims that this is how ESO works. I don't know any MMO where the base world continues to get harder. Why would ESO be any different?

World of Warcraft comes to mind, where somehow even when you gear yourself up, the enemies you face in the open world still put up a fight as they scale up with you. To an upper limit, at least, there does come a point where enemies don't pose a substantial threat to anyone who pays some attention to their surroundings. You know, not exactly massively dangerous, but they'll still kill you if you don't try fighting them off or run away. Something I can't quite agree to be the reality for ESO.

And why would ESO be any different? I 'unno, people would probably be a bit happier for starters and you wouldn't see so many people making threads saying "Overland is easy, please buff it", if they got stronger and saw that the enemies still manage to put up a bit of a fight against them

WoW has zones that fall into level ranges. For instance there is this group of zones for players level 1 to 30, and this group of zones for players level 30 to 60, etc.. (Not the exact ranges, just for example.) But none of these zones keep getting harder. Nor do any max level characters in WoW expect to go back to the lower level zones and have them scale to their high level and gear.

At least 2 or 3 of these threads were started by the same player, so it's not a lot of others asking for this.

Mayrael · April 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

...you'd figure that as you get your character stronger, the world would get stronger with you as well.

Why would you figure that? There have never been any claims that this is how ESO works. I don't know any MMO where the base world continues to get harder. Why would ESO be any different?

World of Warcraft comes to mind, where somehow even when you gear yourself up, the enemies you face in the open world still put up a fight as they scale up with you. To an upper limit, at least, there does come a point where enemies don't pose a substantial threat to anyone who pays some attention to their surroundings. You know, not exactly massively dangerous, but they'll still kill you if you don't try fighting them off or run away. Something I can't quite agree to be the reality for ESO.

And why would ESO be any different? I 'unno, people would probably be a bit happier for starters and you wouldn't see so many people making threads saying "Overland is easy, please buff it", if they got stronger and saw that the enemies still manage to put up a bit of a fight against them

WoW has zones that fall into level ranges. For instance there is this group of zones for players level 1 to 30, and this group of zones for players level 30 to 60, etc.. (Not the exact ranges, just for example.) But none of these zones keep getting harder. Nor do any max level characters in WoW expect to go back to the lower level zones and have them scale to their high level and gear.

At least 2 or 3 of these threads were started by the same player, so it's not a lot of others asking for this.

And yet those threads are always very popular. Just a simple question. Nobody is trying to take away your easy zones so why you don't want to others to have fun?

Agenericname · April 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

...you'd figure that as you get your character stronger, the world would get stronger with you as well.

Why would you figure that? There have never been any claims that this is how ESO works. I don't know any MMO where the base world continues to get harder. Why would ESO be any different?

World of Warcraft comes to mind, where somehow even when you gear yourself up, the enemies you face in the open world still put up a fight as they scale up with you. To an upper limit, at least, there does come a point where enemies don't pose a substantial threat to anyone who pays some attention to their surroundings. You know, not exactly massively dangerous, but they'll still kill you if you don't try fighting them off or run away. Something I can't quite agree to be the reality for ESO.

And why would ESO be any different? I 'unno, people would probably be a bit happier for starters and you wouldn't see so many people making threads saying "Overland is easy, please buff it", if they got stronger and saw that the enemies still manage to put up a bit of a fight against them

WoW has zones that fall into level ranges. For instance there is this group of zones for players level 1 to 30, and this group of zones for players level 30 to 60, etc.. (Not the exact ranges, just for example.) But none of these zones keep getting harder. Nor do any max level characters in WoW expect to go back to the lower level zones and have them scale to their high level and gear.

At least 2 or 3 of these threads were started by the same player, so it's not a lot of others asking for this.

If you were to go into the combat and mechanics subform and ask a genuine question, you would be answered. Typically by a genuine and thoughtful response. There are quite a few there now. Some will be "git gud", but the majority are helpful. This is people who having an issue ask other people, and they do what they can to help.

If you come into the general forum and post something like this, you're more likely to be met with hostility or in some cases people trying to shut the conversation down completely and marginalize those opinions.

To be honest, Im rather surprised the few that do post persist. If you use your search engine of choice and look, the topic is on other forums as well. Its most certainly not isolated to the same 2-3 people.

SilverBride · April 2021

Mayrael wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

At least 2 or 3 of these threads were started by the same player, so it's not a lot of others asking for this.

And yet those threads are always very popular. Just a simple question. Nobody is trying to take away your easy zones so why you don't want to others to have fun?

I don't consider the same few players posting in favor of this, and using multiple of their own accounts to do so, popular.

This "fun" is dependent on using valuable time and resources for something that a minority will utilize. It is not worth it. We can't have what is basically separate games for every players' desires.

Sevn · April 2021

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

To paraphrase what another poster pointed out in another thread, for players who chose to develop their character to its fullest, and gear up with all the bis, etc., everything outside of veteran dungeons and trials is going to be too easy for them. But that was their choice. They geared up for veteran content and there is plenty of that to be had.

A veteran player complaining that overland is too easy is like someone with a doctorate degree complaining that their job at McDonald's isn't challenging enough for them. Do the the job you prepared for.

ZoS isn't going to use valuable time and resources to create a completely new world, then maintain it, just because a small minority of players don't want to play the content they developed their character for.

That may be, but you'd figure that as you get your character stronger, the world would get stronger with you as well. Such as as you level the things scale with you. And you know, there is more to the game than just "Dungeons and Trials", and I find it to be very counter-productive and rather counter-to-the-point of the RPG game to see people effectively say "Don't make yourself more powerful if you don't want the rest of the game be too easy then"

Not to mention that things are already easy just leveling new characters, but I digress

And it isn't just "Being geared for veteran", it could easily just as well be that people either aren't "Ready" (I put that in quotation marks because I find it to be nonsensical to say it like that) for things Veteran, despite having the gear for it. I helped my girlfriend gear herself up with the best obtainable items, or at least stuff that she read as good for starters, only to then be met with people wanting to kick her out of the group because she wasn't dealing hundreds of thousands of DPS.

Was a time when I was geared to do Veteran, only to be shunned because I didn't deal a ton of damage, so I was stuck doing insultingly easy content wearing blinged out gear. It was quite annoying and would've welcomed a mid-way difficulty tier between Overland Easy and Veteran Dungeon hard.

I see this being said repeatedly, that it would be "A waste of resources", when the irony is that the framework is already there. Phasing tech is everywhere in the game, I highly doubt that it would be a massive difficulty to make a phase in which monsters are scaled up a bit to make them be a bit more of a threat than just a fly buzzing infront of you.

In B-Four a self-proclaimed coding expert comes in to repeatedly say "You are wrong" with no details as to why.

Players are not just asking for monsters to be simply scaled up though are they? They want more in depth combat mechanics that results in npc's doing many more combat actions than what they currently do now.

That isn't a case of simply separating players, it's creating two very different games. Same boss/enemies, two different mechanics. If that's easy why don't we currently have different movesets for the same enemies in the dungeons with 2 versions instead of new enemies/ bosses to fight?

Been a while since I've ran dungeons but even the first dungeon pits you against a different boss at the end, not the same boss with more mechanics enabled. And if scaling up the monsters is the solution, the same experience can be accomplished by scaling the player down, which is why it continues to get suggested, because that's the most likely scenario, Zos introducing a self debuff, something players can already do but want Zos to do for them.

Daraklus · April 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

...you'd figure that as you get your character stronger, the world would get stronger with you as well.

Why would you figure that? There have never been any claims that this is how ESO works. I don't know any MMO where the base world continues to get harder. Why would ESO be any different?

World of Warcraft comes to mind, where somehow even when you gear yourself up, the enemies you face in the open world still put up a fight as they scale up with you. To an upper limit, at least, there does come a point where enemies don't pose a substantial threat to anyone who pays some attention to their surroundings. You know, not exactly massively dangerous, but they'll still kill you if you don't try fighting them off or run away. Something I can't quite agree to be the reality for ESO.

And why would ESO be any different? I 'unno, people would probably be a bit happier for starters and you wouldn't see so many people making threads saying "Overland is easy, please buff it", if they got stronger and saw that the enemies still manage to put up a bit of a fight against them

WoW has zones that fall into level ranges. For instance there is this group of zones for players level 1 to 30, and this group of zones for players level 30 to 60, etc.. (Not the exact ranges, just for example.) But none of these zones keep getting harder. Nor do any max level characters in WoW expect to go back to the lower level zones and have them scale to their high level and gear.

At least 2 or 3 of these threads were started by the same player, so it's not a lot of others asking for this.

Sure, but I'm not talking about the low level zones that becomes irrelevant content after a certain point, I'm talking about current expansion content. I remember when I played WoW in Shadowlands, enemies remained consistently as a form of threat for me to not take them on with only half-effort, even when I was gearing up quite a bit. I was able to kill them easier sure, but they still posed a threat, a "Challenge", one might say. This is something that I think ESO is missing, be it as a player leveling up or as a player who is ready for Veteran Dungeons.

Doesn't matter if there is only one person making these threads. The traffic they generate is another story however. Or are you saying that it would be a better indication of how many people want harder overland if the forums were spammed by several different people? That makes no sense, since they'd be locked with the message saying "Consider posting in other present threads"

Agenericname wrote: »

[In you come into the general forum and post something like this, you're more likely to be met with hostility or in some cases people trying to shut the conversation down completely and marginalize those opinions.

Reminds me of how people who ask if there'd be a possibility for Sea of Thieves to have an option that allows you to play the game without the PvP setting. No matter if you are a player who doesn't enjoy PvP or is a player who 360 no-scopes other players, you will be met with vitriol from players who abandon all logic and argue in fallacies.

SilverBride · April 2021

I am curious why there are so many posts by new forum users who only very recently joined. They would not have enough knowledge about, or experience with, the game to have an opinion yet.

Daraklus · April 2021

Sevn wrote: »

the same experience can be accomplished by scaling the player down, which is why it continues to get suggested, because that's the most likely scenario, Zos introducing a self debuff, something players can already do but want Zos to do for them

People have already stated why this isn't a solution. And even I myself have stated why not. Much as I'd like to share my opinion of people who keep suggesting this non-soltuion, I will instead put it in easily understandable sentences:

This suggestion is counter to the idea of an RPG and its "Gain more power over time" design.

Even if you "Self-nerf", enemies remain as an insignificant obstacle rather than a challenge.

There are videos floating around of people being naked and taking on either hordes of enemies and not dying, or even Strong enemies and doing just fine against them.

SilverBride wrote: »

I am curious why there are so many posts by new forum users who only very recently joined. They would not have enough knowledge about, or experience with, the game to have an opinion yet.

It is clear that you're talking about me.

Much as I find the subtle accusation of being "New" flattering, I've actually played for a good amount of time now. It's only recently that I decided to register on the forums. Or must I be on the forums for a few years in order to be knowledgable on the game?

That, and are you trying to say that people who are new aren't allowed to state if the game feels easy or not? I've mentioned my girlfriend who is new and doesn't find the leveling process to be challenging.

Mayrael · April 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

At least 2 or 3 of these threads were started by the same player, so it's not a lot of others asking for this.

And yet those threads are always very popular. Just a simple question. Nobody is trying to take away your easy zones so why you don't want to others to have fun?

I don't consider the same few players posting in favor of this, and using multiple of their own accounts to do so, popular.

This "fun" is dependent on using valuable time and resources for something that a minority will utilize. It is not worth it. We can't have what is basically separate games for every players' desires.

Oh so now you claim "multiaccount" is involved, it starts to look like conspiracy theory. Even you know you're wrong.

You are not the one who can judge is it worth it or not, because you have no data about that "minority", that's just your assumption. Is this the only argument you have? So in general it would make the game better because there is no argument against it and the only flaw of this idea is that it's not worth resources?

Fortunately it's ZOS who decides which improvements are worthy and which are not. Many QoL improvements take a lot of resources newertheless they are still implemented because you know it makes the game better, same with such change, it would make the game better that's is out of discussion - more options is always better.

Psiion · April 2021

Greetings,

Seeing as this thread has run it's course, we have gone ahead and closed it down. While we encourage sharing opinions, Baiting is generally non-constructive and against the Forum's Community Rules as stated below:

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.