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ZoS, We Need to Address the Mat Price Increase 2x-5x

  • Larcomar
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    It's called *inflation* It happens (unless you're japan). Deal with it. Mats don't cost more. Gold is just worth less. Because there's an awful lot of it sloshing around.
  • ThorianB
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    The current event will drop the prices on mats. All those writs a day on all those characters means a lot of surveys( i have gotten about 10 during the event and its only been a day). While the reward boxes only give a partial ROI you do get stacks of mats in every single anniversary box. And a lot of those boxes are generated from activities that don't consume mats.

    I wish they would extend the event a week or two to compensate for all of the CP craziness going on with people trying to power level and burning through master writs.
  • jaws343
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    ThorianB wrote: »
    The current event will drop the prices on mats. All those writs a day on all those characters means a lot of surveys( i have gotten about 10 during the event and its only been a day). While the reward boxes only give a partial ROI you do get stacks of mats in every single anniversary box. And a lot of those boxes are generated from activities that don't consume mats.

    I wish they would extend the event a week or two to compensate for all of the CP craziness going on with people trying to power level and burning through master writs.

    I am definitely going to be doing a survey farm after the event is done and the XP buff has run out. Writs on 18 characters every day for 2 weeks is going to translate to a lot of surveys.
  • RedMuse
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    If only you all had bots like on Xbox. Our wax is 3.5k!!! It’s actually not worth anyone’s time to farm materials because the bots do it for the whole community and Zos does nothing about it. Go to the alikr... bots, go to Rawlkha ... bots, starter zones... only bots. Even if you are trying to get through the tutorial as a new player, you can’t ... bots all over the wailing prison. If you are standing at any given wayshrine, and you tell your friend to come and find you at that wayshire without traveling to you ... chances are a group of bots will appear there before your friend. Wax is almost as low as when the pig farm existed. To put into perspective, 60% of the players that play eso on Xbox make it out of the wailing prison, but only half of those players actually make it to the harborage. That number is due there reduced to only 7% of the accounts created, not characters but accounts... actually make it to level 50.

    You would thing things would get better over the course of 6 years, but in fact it is the worst it has ever been. As a new player you cannot even enjoy the game or find materials to farm because there is a bit sitting at it. Still, Zos does nothing about it.

    ZOS managed to deactivate a very popular way of botting back at the beginning of the year on PC. It told in prices then and I guess it still is. Every farmer in the game told people on here and on reddit that it would mean a price hike because manual way of doing it would never in any way make up for the slack, but few people listened.

    Btw this is not a pro-botting comment, I detest botting. It's the statement of a fact.
  • Blacknight841
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    zaria wrote: »
    If only you all had bots like on Xbox. Our wax is 3.5k!!! It’s actually not worth anyone’s time to farm materials because the bots do it for the whole community and Zos does nothing about it. Go to the alikr... bots, go to Rawlkha ... bots, starter zones... only bots. Even if you are trying to get through the tutorial as a new player, you can’t ... bots all over the wailing prison. If you are standing at any given wayshrine, and you tell your friend to come and find you at that wayshire without traveling to you ... chances are a group of bots will appear there before your friend. Wax is almost as low as when the pig farm existed. To put into perspective, 60% of the players that play eso on Xbox make it out of the wailing prison, but only half of those players actually make it to the harborage. That number is due there reduced to only 7% of the accounts created, not characters but accounts... actually make it to level 50.

    You would thing things would get better over the course of 6 years, but in fact it is the worst it has ever been. As a new player you cannot even enjoy the game or find materials to farm because there is a bit sitting at it. Still, Zos does nothing about it.
    Question, how can you run bots on an console? Yes you can probably jailbreak one, but then you need an bot software designed and updated to run on current ESO version on an Xbox.

    This exist on pc where you have bot software with ESO "drivers" but on PC you just need the game, the software who work on many game and be willing to cheat and take the risk.
    But does this marked exist on consoles as you need to jailbreak in the first place and I assume its harder to make the cheat software.



    There are plenty of ways to do it, unfortunately I will not add to the problem by listing them here. Microsoft doesn’t do anything to prevent these controllers. Zos does nothing to combat it. They ban occasionally, but on console you can create free accounts with game pass so a bot getting banned isn’t even a slap on the wrist. Especially when you you can link multiple Xbox’s to run at the same time. You just need to stand in the alikr wayshire by the main city at the traders, and sooner rather than later a team of 20-30 bots will pour out. Same thing in the wailing prison. Each one of these bots that creates a new account adds to “ever growing population” that they boast about annually 15m players and counting. The real statistic is that oniy 7% of the Xbox accounts made it to level 50, and less than 3.1% of the accounts actually read the 9 basic styles. In fact 40% of the accounts created in Xbox never even make it out of the wailing prison. These are the stats they fail to include in the disclaimer when they post their annual growth. Material prices are never kept in check by the players that actually play the game. They are only kept in check by the bots that sell mats so that they can sell gold. Some people may argue that bots help the game, but if there is an issue with material prices getting out of hand, it is something that the developers can address internally. It is never justification to say you need cheaters to have a good game. That like saying you need criminals to have a good society.
  • MasterSpatula
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    This is all well and good if Gold income or flow was also increasing at similar rates. It has not. For the flippers and exploiters, this is all great and amazing!

    Pumping more cash into an economy is not how you slow inflation.
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • ForzaRammer
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    Larcomar wrote: »
    It's called *inflation* It happens (unless you're japan). Deal with it. Mats don't cost more. Gold is just worth less. Because there's an awful lot of it sloshing around.

    correct, but it is zos's stupid antique scrying treasure crap cause this inflation.
  • ForzaRammer
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    This is all well and good if Gold income or flow was also increasing at similar rates. It has not. For the flippers and exploiters, this is all great and amazing!

    Pumping more cash into an economy is not how you slow inflation.

    exactly, some people need to actually learn macro economy, the solution should be reduce direct gold gain from all sources.
  • Zodiarkslayer
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    This is how economies work. Basic supply and demand.

    I try to sell things for reasonable prices. But that may be influenced on my own need for money. But I also don’t undercut big items. If a motif usually sells for 85k gold, that’s what I’ll try to get for it.

    There are also guilds. I’ll put things in the guild bank or on the guild store at a reduced prices. Yes, my in-game buddies get a break - usually. Those folks get the “discount” that isn’t seen in the public guild traders.

    Then there’s the practice of investment (that’s what I call it). I’ll hold onto something, if its sale price drops too much. Eventually it will go back up. Everything is cyclical.

    Is it fair? I don’t know. But the entire economy in ESO is its own mini-game. It has taken me four years of fairly regular play to get a bit of a grasp on it. But there are folks, I’m sure, who make me look like a skooma peddler in comparison,

    No on the basic economy statement.
    But Yes, to it being a Mini Game in ESO.

    Guilds play it for profit and some are so good at it that they have a significant influence on market prices. The rarer the item the more influence a single guild has on its price. This is a fact not a theory.
    No Effort, No Reward?
    No Reward, No Effort!
  • Zodiarkslayer
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    <Disclaimer: This is not Baiting! This is an Elder Scrolls enthusiast worrying about his beloved community!>

    Anyone talking about economy should understand something. Speculation bubbles do only burst, when creditors massively demand payment from debtors. Which then have to sell low for short term earnings.
    Since neither are subject to (monetary) economic pressure in ESO, bubbles cannot pop! They might stretch, though.

    The craft bag removing any cost of storage for mats is one of the major driving factors of the price increases for storable materials.
    Infinite Storage without Cost! How can anyone claim that this is even remotely describable by economic theory?
    Edited by Zodiarkslayer on April 3, 2021 7:35PM
    No Effort, No Reward?
    No Reward, No Effort!
  • rumple9
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    People who can't be bothered levelling crafting, then cry about mat prices. Same people who want everything for nothing
  • Zodiarkslayer
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    L_Nici wrote: »
    Well thats how economy works. The price gets regulated by offer and demand. And if people offer something way overprized, but the demand is there and people still buy it, then there is nothing to say against it. You are like the ones who offer something a part of that system, if you just don't buy it overprized the offering party has to adjust its prize at some point, by lowering its prizes again. If you have the choice you would obviously buy it cheaper and the people who still overprize stuff won't sell anymore.

    That would necessitate a need for short term liquidity, which is not applicable in ESO.
    Without pressure to sell low prices do not drop. You just need to sit on your mats and wait it out when demand dies away. After all, Mat storage is free for ESO+ members.

    And if you do not have anything to use your money for anyways, it accumulates pretty quickly and you do not need to sell low either...
    No Effort, No Reward?
    No Reward, No Effort!
  • zaria
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    Do crafting writs, this give an steady stream of surveys.
    At max crafting level you also get an steady stream of gold tempers and master writs, later is very inflated as up to 10x more expensive as its an very fast way to get CP.
    Alchemy writs sells for 40 K now.

    As many said here, its not much to spend serious gold in in ESO unless you are very into housing until this patch.
    Now very rich players are buying hundreds of master writs as an way to turn gold into cp.

    I predict price will spike during this event as its double xp so you get 250% rather than 150% xp buff.
    If you rather want gold, do crafting writs.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Ascarl
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    The problem IMHO are these "pro" orientated players that think if they score high enogh (thanks to weaving etc) that they "deserve" everything including gold armor.
    I disagree. You only deserve gold armor if you farm the materials on your own. Of course you can also buy the mats but then you have to accept the prices of those players who farm more than they need themselfes.
  • CrashTest
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    The problem here isn't sellers. It's the complete overhaul of ESO every few months which causes a surge in demand bc players have to redo builds, which in turn increases prices. The changes come so often that the market never fully settles back to pre-change prices, so the prices just keep going up.

    As long as demand is constantly created by the frequent changes, the prices will continue to go up.

    Also, just don't buy it if it's too expensive for you. Meticulous Disassembly gives you a decent amount of mats, so you can upgrade your gear on your own. It's not instant like buying upgrade mats, but it doesn't take long either.

    MD might also have the effect of dropping prices in the long run bc it'll ease the demand on the market as high prices drive more and more players to invest CP into it, so they can upgrade on their own.
    Edited by CrashTest on April 4, 2021 8:24AM
  • stefj68
    stefj68
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    why should they bother... if i offer mine at 4x price and it sells, its not ZOS fault...
  • Túrin_Vidsmidr
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    This is bound to happen in every MMO where trading ingame gold to premium currency that costs IRL money begins.
    The best techniques are passed on by the survivors.
  • Naftal
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    They need to add a lot more gold sinks in the game so gold doesn't just change owners but is removed from the game.
  • ZaroktheImmortal
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    Them going up I'd say is more due to the playerbase than ZOS themselves not sure why they jumped in price.
  • ZaroktheImmortal
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    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    I’ve rarely actually had to buy mats in this game because I took the time to level multiple crafters and all my mats were earned by me. Something to consider for those worried about this.

    I do plenty of crafting writs and surveys and what not but getting jewelry upgrade parts is a pain as you need 10 bits for one part so they sell for really expensive prices.
  • Marcus_Thracius
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    Its free market
    Its how things work in the world
    + you have inflation ( and that is an inevitable thing too)
    Its like iam hearing my grandpa : but back in the days "insert random object" did cost this and now its so expensive blablabla
    Welcome to reality
  • mague
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    As many have noticed, upgrade and base materials prices have exploded. In most cases doubled, in Legendary level prices have tripled. In some outlier cases, it's gone 5x. This is all within a timeframe of a few months.

    This is all well and good if Gold income or flow was also increasing at similar rates. It has not. For the flippers and exploiters, this is all great and amazing!

    Not true. Mat prices are not the problem. It is inflation all over the guild shops. Like in any other game with player made prices, lol. And the new super expensive mounts dont help to fight inflation tbh. So, greed rules Tamriel and ruins the CP 123 players experience.

    And as a veteran i dont care. It is easy to have plenty of hardener/resign/etc. for my self and alts just with surveys.
  • Starlight_Whisper
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    I remember when rosin used to be 8k. At 4k you guys are complaining.
  • NupidStoob
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    Last year around christmas ZoS took care of Bots on PC EU and since then I haven't seen any. I remember all the whine thread about those... This is the reason Dreugh Wax prices constantly went up.

    There is also a huge amount of inflation as what we spend gold on is incredibly limited and ZoS has added more and more ways to earn gold. Multiple times was the log in reward 100k per player which introduced millions into the economy and now with the new CP system we also earn more gold. I get now roughly 500G more per char that does all 7 writs. Roughly 90k gold a day simply for spending 45-50 minutes doing writs on 18 chars and that is just raw gold.

    There is also a massive difference to the amount of gold endgame players have access to compared to what newer players have. As a result the prices spike because if people easily buy your Dreugh Wax for 16k, why list it for less? As I mentioned above I spend like 50 minutes doing writs a day and get 90k in raw gold + the mats from the rewards + hirelings. Thats easily 150k gold a day while hardly breaking a sweat. The amount of time and effort for a new player to get that much is just massively disproportionate.

    We just have way too much money in the economy currently. In endgame it's not uncommon for people to have in the tens of millions, even 100s of millions doesn't feel too uncommon and reportedly there are even a few billionaires amongst the hardcore crown sellers/power traders. Imagine where the prices would be if people would push that money back into the economy.

    This is also the best argument against a centralized auction house as it would be incredibly easy for people to dominate the entire market. Only reason Dreugh Wax isn't 50k atm is that nobody with the resources to buy them all up has the motivation to check every single trader in the game multiple times a day. We already had issues with people doing this to certain plants in the past, like the time when columbine was 500g+ for quite a long timeframe.
  • ZaroktheImmortal
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    NupidStoob wrote: »
    Last year around christmas ZoS took care of Bots on PC EU and since then I haven't seen any. I remember all the whine thread about those... This is the reason Dreugh Wax prices constantly went up.

    There is also a huge amount of inflation as what we spend gold on is incredibly limited and ZoS has added more and more ways to earn gold. Multiple times was the log in reward 100k per player which introduced millions into the economy and now with the new CP system we also earn more gold. I get now roughly 500G more per char that does all 7 writs. Roughly 90k gold a day simply for spending 45-50 minutes doing writs on 18 chars and that is just raw gold.

    There is also a massive difference to the amount of gold endgame players have access to compared to what newer players have. As a result the prices spike because if people easily buy your Dreugh Wax for 16k, why list it for less? As I mentioned above I spend like 50 minutes doing writs a day and get 90k in raw gold + the mats from the rewards + hirelings. Thats easily 150k gold a day while hardly breaking a sweat. The amount of time and effort for a new player to get that much is just massively disproportionate.

    We just have way too much money in the economy currently. In endgame it's not uncommon for people to have in the tens of millions, even 100s of millions doesn't feel too uncommon and reportedly there are even a few billionaires amongst the hardcore crown sellers/power traders. Imagine where the prices would be if people would push that money back into the economy.

    This is also the best argument against a centralized auction house as it would be incredibly easy for people to dominate the entire market. Only reason Dreugh Wax isn't 50k atm is that nobody with the resources to buy them all up has the motivation to check every single trader in the game multiple times a day. We already had issues with people doing this to certain plants in the past, like the time when columbine was 500g+ for quite a long timeframe.

    Yes, because it's all so hard for to dominate with pricings and raise it cause greed. Also you don't have to check every trader. I mean there Tamerial Trade Center does have a website that lists a lot of peoples listings and most people trading will use it. If anything the guild trader system just allows a certain number of people to control what average pricings things will usually go for.
  • Brrrofski
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    zaria wrote: »
    If only you all had bots like on Xbox. Our wax is 3.5k!!! It’s actually not worth anyone’s time to farm materials because the bots do it for the whole community and Zos does nothing about it. Go to the alikr... bots, go to Rawlkha ... bots, starter zones... only bots. Even if you are trying to get through the tutorial as a new player, you can’t ... bots all over the wailing prison. If you are standing at any given wayshrine, and you tell your friend to come and find you at that wayshire without traveling to you ... chances are a group of bots will appear there before your friend. Wax is almost as low as when the pig farm existed. To put into perspective, 60% of the players that play eso on Xbox make it out of the wailing prison, but only half of those players actually make it to the harborage. That number is due there reduced to only 7% of the accounts created, not characters but accounts... actually make it to level 50.

    You would thing things would get better over the course of 6 years, but in fact it is the worst it has ever been. As a new player you cannot even enjoy the game or find materials to farm because there is a bit sitting at it. Still, Zos does nothing about it.
    Question, how can you run bots on an console? Yes you can probably jailbreak one, but then you need an bot software designed and updated to run on current ESO version on an Xbox.

    This exist on pc where you have bot software with ESO "drivers" but on PC you just need the game, the software who work on many game and be willing to cheat and take the risk.
    But does this marked exist on consoles as you need to jailbreak in the first place and I assume its harder to make the cheat software.


    Dunno, but bots are everywhere.

    There's the group of 10-20 mag sorcs on beaches (Alik'r, Grahtwood Malabol tor) killing mudcrab type bots. Lightning form, heavy lightning, scamp pet. These are around quite often. I guess they get banned, but they just make more.

    Then you have ore bots, that farm a certain spot. They have a specific path, go to the area of a node, wether it's there or not, and chill for 5 seconds. Either mine the ore or move on.

    That might be why our prices have stayed the same, but I've never seen a bot farm wood, and Rosin has also stayed the same cost for like 4+ years.

    All mats have.

    Aside from a small bump after a new patch, they pretty much stay consistent.
  • KatzMainTank
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    As many have noticed, upgrade and base materials prices have exploded. In most cases doubled, in Legendary level prices have tripled. In some outlier cases, it's gone 5x. This is all within a timeframe of a few months.

    This is all well and good if Gold income or flow was also increasing at similar rates. It has not. For the flippers and exploiters, this is all great and amazing!

    For the regular player all the way up through upper level veteran players, even us long timers, this is not good and has set a dangerous precedent. Even with decent weekly sales and income from occasional hours of dedicated farming, it has become unrealistic to upgrade gear.

    As a matter of perspective, the prices themselves aren't the problem. The issue is the relative value versus the players' ability to earn that coin to buy it. In this case, the value hasn't gone up, nor has the player's ability to earn that value in gold, but the price has gone up.

    Through poor planning or poor game design, as well as controlling the artificial drop rates, ZoS is both allowing and is an accomplice to a rapidly growing inequality. It's getting to where even the advanced player has to sell Crowns just to upgrade gear. If this is the new game design or intention, then ZoS should just go ahead and directly sell us Gold for Crowns or real money so we can eliminate the middleperson.

    For several examples, here's some examples that I had been noticing and watching skyrocket.
    • Dreugh Wax: an absolute game flaw making the gold mat for light and medium the same item.
      year ago: 6k, then 7k, then a few months ago 9k, then suddenly 10k, then when the patch dropped 12k, quickly up and up, 14k last week, this week 17k.
      So from 6k to 17k.
    • Tempering Alloy: a year ago 3.5k, then 5k, then when U29 dropped had gone to 8k, last week breached 10k.
      So 3.5k to 10k+
    • Rosin: watched it go from 2.5k to 5k-8k, so not so bad, but still noted.
    • Alchemy ingredient prices: almost all have undergone a 50% to 100% price increase during that same time.
    • One outlier case I noticed go insane, and I don't care nor am in the market of nor for, is Aetherial Dust. Obviously it would go up due to the raised cap. Yet it has gone way deep into questionable and greed territory. A year ago or more it was 230k-275k, it had been there for quite some time. I watched the zone sellers since Update 29 go immediately to 350k, then a few days later 400k, then last week 500k then 600k, and a few days ago 750k.

      That is just totally nuts and a terrible design that allows for something to go from 230k to 750k within weeks.

    This is setting a dangerous precedent ZoS, I'm telling you as a friend for years, this is dangerous and will backfire. If you want only the elites to get richer and everyone else to have to sell Crowns just to make gear or make potions to do content, the just come out and say so. Make a way for us to just buy the Gold.

    Or, if you really want to fix it, just increase the drop rates. A Dreugh Wax is not worth 17k if it was 6k last year. Just up the drop rates of the mats and Surveys, we don't mind working for it.

    We don't mind working for it, but it has to be realistic. 1.2 Million gold to fully upgrade 1 set of armor for 1 character is not realistic for most players.

    We live in a society.

    For realsies tho, it has more to do with the supply vs demand of the mats. A year ago there were more players, which means more mats, which means demand is easier to satiate, which results in lower prices from the abundance of said mats. Now the demand is stronger than what's available. I think this is the other edge of the sword Zeni took when they opted out of an AH in favor of guild stores. Besides, Zeni is in the storm drain with red balloons for all the new "trial" players right now. Someone's bound to get got just like we all did.

    "Everybody sells down here Georgie" - ZoS
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  • NupidStoob
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    Yes, because it's all so hard for to dominate with pricings and raise it cause greed. Also you don't have to check every trader. I mean there Tamerial Trade Center does have a website that lists a lot of peoples listings and most people trading will use it. If anything the guild trader system just allows a certain number of people to control what average pricings things will usually go for.

    I am not sure what you are trying to say. If you wanted to dominate a market like Dreugh Wax for example it is far more effective to just check every trader than follow TTC as you want to buy basically all of the supply. TTC often laggs behind and is reliant on others checking the traders and the others might also just buy what you are looking for then. With the current system I can always get something way cheaper than the avg price simply by checking the out of the way guildtraders (as long as it's a common enough item like tempers). With an auction house someone could simply take a couple hundred million gold and buy every dreugh wax that gets listed under 30k, multiple times a day and push the price to 30k+. That would be very little effort as long as that person has the money and wants to spend 5 minutes multiple times a day. It is way harder to try to create a massive shortage of Dreugh Wax with the guildtrader system as you need to invest a lot more time or work as a bigger team.

    I've done powertrading in ESO like 4 years ago and back then with a way lower population and way less guildtraders it was already a chore. Doing it in games like GW2 or WoW on the other hand is a breeze as I can literally do whatever I want and just press scan every 5-10 minutes to buy something out.
  • BlueRaven
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    Master harvester - is fairly well cp blocked, enough so that many people have to get to plan to get to it.

    Meticulous Disassembly - Not quite as high up in the tree, but expensive in cp points. Again players need to plan to get it if they are low/moderate in the amount of cp they have.
    What’s more (I am told) not having it loaded is a serious nerf to the amount of crafting mats received, compared to how it was like before the latest update.

    Basically prices may be going up because mats are more difficult to come by.
  • remosito
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    What’s more (I am told) not having it loaded is a serious nerf to the amount of crafting mats received, compared to how it was like before the latest update.

    who told you that? thought was tested as unchanged?
    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
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