Does Meticulous Disassembly actually help?
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Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭In my completely subjective, personal experience only - seems to make zero difference.
Refined over 10k mats of all types now in my usual post survey batches (1-2k at a time) and I get the usual wide range of good mats. (Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes avg)
I see zero impact so far whether I have maxed out disassembly slotted or not. Tested by using disassembly for half my batches so far and haven’t seen a difference,
I know 5-6 batches of 5k mats with disassembly and 5-6 batches of 5k mats without isn’t a huge sample size. But tbh, if this isn’t enough to detect a passive requiring 50 points is working or not, then the effect of the buff is so minuscule it doesn’t matter either way.14 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've seen a noticable increase. If I do my survey's I no longer need to buy from guild traders anymore.2 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've seen a noticable increase. If I do my survey's I no longer need to buy from guild traders anymore.
Should explain further because there are 2 kinds of mats ppl mostly buy - basic and gold.
If you mean you don’t need to buy gold mats because survey decon gives more than enough, this was true even before disassembly cp. I have over 2k+ gold mats all types because I don’t sell from craft bag and I gain more than I use on personal chars.
If you mean basic white mats, I find that hard to believe. I do daily writs on all 18 chars main acct and even with surveys helping out, still need to buy basic mats in large bulk purchases in regular periods to keep up with consumption.
Which type of mats have you seen noticeable increase in?2 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've seen a noticable increase. If I do my survey's I no longer need to buy from guild traders anymore.
Should explain further because there are 2 kinds of mats ppl mostly buy - basic and gold.
If you mean you don’t need to buy gold mats because survey decon gives more than enough, this was true even before disassembly cp. I have over 2k+ gold mats all types because I don’t sell from craft bag and I gain more than I use on personal chars.
If you mean basic white mats, I find that hard to believe. I do daily writs on all 18 chars main acct and even with surveys helping out, still need to buy basic mats in large bulk purchases in regular periods to keep up with consumption.
Which type of mats have you seen noticeable increase in?
The gold mats I get from refining the materials I get from my suvery allows me to gold about a character every week (jewelry not included). I have no need to gold out a character every week, I have no idea how people need to gold out a character every week... But apparantly prices for gold mats don't drop so either people don't do their surveys or they need to gold a lot of sets out on a weekly basis.1 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In my own personal anecdotal evidence, I've not seen any increase in mats dropping from refining.
I usually save up my surveys and do them all on Monday. (Across 13 characters)
I'm getting around 12 to 20 gold mats from refining 2k to 5k raw materials, same as before this perk was introduced with the new CP system.
In my opinion the Meticulous perk is all smoke and mirrors...I've literally seen no difference in material gained from refining.
Edit: yes I do have it slotted on my bar and activated.
I'm guessing what ZoS did was lower the chance without the perk, but adjusted the chance to what it was before the new perk, so you're not actually gaining anything more with it than before, but rather losing a chance at mats without it.
So basically with the perk fully maxed, you are where you were before. Without, the chances are lower.
Again, just my personal anecdotal evidence and opinion.Edited by Kel on April 2, 2021 9:08PM15 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree to the smoke and mirrors part. There are other passives in the tree which have far more immediate and noticeable impact than this one for my experience with it, so even on my crafters I have taken it off for now.3 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've seen a noticable increase. If I do my survey's I no longer need to buy from guild traders anymore.
Should explain further because there are 2 kinds of mats ppl mostly buy - basic and gold.
If you mean you don’t need to buy gold mats because survey decon gives more than enough, this was true even before disassembly cp. I have over 2k+ gold mats all types because I don’t sell from craft bag and I gain more than I use on personal chars.
If you mean basic white mats, I find that hard to believe. I do daily writs on all 18 chars main acct and even with surveys helping out, still need to buy basic mats in large bulk purchases in regular periods to keep up with consumption.
Which type of mats have you seen noticeable increase in?
The gold mats I get from refining the materials I get from my suvery allows me to gold about a character every week (jewelry not included). I have no need to gold out a character every week, I have no idea how people need to gold out a character every week... But apparantly prices for gold mats don't drop so either people don't do their surveys or they need to gold a lot of sets out on a weekly basis.
Right, i agree. But the question was how do you know disassembly works?
Because you said don’t need to buy gold mats since survey gives you more than enough, but that has been true even before disassembly.
I do daily writs and surveys on 18 chars and get all the gold mats I need for personal use - but this was true before and after disassembly.
I have seen mats acquired increase from plentiful harvester cp which works on surveys as well, so more mats from that - but haven’t seen detectable increase from disassembly. You said noticed “noticeable increase” - in which may types and roughly how much?2 -
EvilAutoTech✭✭✭✭✭
✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've seen a noticable increase. If I do my survey's I no longer need to buy from guild traders anymore.
...
If you mean basic white mats, I find that hard to believe. I do daily writs on all 18 chars main acct and even with surveys helping out, still need to buy basic mats in large bulk purchases in regular periods to keep up with consumption.
...
I do writs on 16 characters per day on my main account on the NA server. I never have to buy any crafting items whatsoever. Every few months I have to do surveys for clothing and jewelry.0 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does it only affect refining or does it affect when you decon gear at all?
With a name like Meticulous Disassembly I assumed it would play some role in deconing stuff.2 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »^above question
I had a different outlook. With it I saw a rather large increase in returns VS not having it.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer2 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I wonder if @tmbrinks has some solid info on these questions.
It was tested on the PTS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7136888/#Comment_7136888
I'm not sure whether it's also been tested on live.2 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I wonder if @tmbrinks has some solid info on these questions.
I too was inclined to summon the stat master, @tmbrinks ... but it appears they've been banned!
Without digging up the thread, I believe the consensus was that Meticulous Disassembly does indeed help. It essentially bumps you up a tier similar to how the 3/3 passive for each craft's skill line increases your odds of getting high-quality mats. So with 3/3 + MD you're sorta at 4/3 on that passive; again, just going from memory, I think it was a ~12.5% increase.
If someone could find the original thread, that'd be neat! I failed.1 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I wonder if @tmbrinks has some solid info on these questions.
It was tested on the PTS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7136888/#Comment_7136888
I'm not sure whether it's also been tested on live.
Dang, @virtus753 , you're good! You found and linked the thread while I was writing my above post, haha. Thanks for the link!
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I wonder if @tmbrinks has some solid info on these questions.
It was tested on the PTS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7136888/#Comment_7136888
I'm not sure whether it's also been tested on live.
Interesting. I don't really follow PTS as I can't ever use it, so wasn't aware of that. Thanks!0 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I wonder if @tmbrinks has some solid info on these questions.
It was tested on the PTS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7136888/#Comment_7136888
I'm not sure whether it's also been tested on live.
Dang, @virtus753 , you're good! You found and linked the thread while I was writing my above post, haha. Thanks for the link!
Sure thing! It helps that I happened to have been following it during the PTS cycle. Otherwise I'd probably still be searching...0 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here is tmbrinks' data from live:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7187934/#Comment_7187934
From what I can tell, it seems to align with the testing done on the PTS.3 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@virtus753 - thanks again, I thought I'd seen a thread like that but the search here is.... eh, whatever. So that does bear out my own experience (which I haven't posted, as it's anecdotal since I'm not tmbrinks!)2 -
linuxlady✭✭✭✭I would think disassembly has to do with the mats returned on GEAR broken down. Not refining mats process. Try testing for the right behavior.
Meticulous Disassembly icon
Meticulous Disassembly
Improves the chances of extracting Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.
It says nothing about increased mats from refining
This is a case of OP and others reading into a thing whatever it is they WiSH it meant.Edited by linuxlady on April 3, 2021 1:05AM1 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would think disassembly has to do with the mats returned on GEAR broken down. Not refining mats process. Try testing for the right behavior.
Meticulous Disassembly icon
Meticulous Disassembly
Improves the chances of extracting Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.
It says nothing about increased mats from refining
It says "extracting...ingredients." There are two ways to "extract" ingredients: from gear, and from refining. Just like the extraction passives, with which Gina explicitly said MD is designed to stack:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562719/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-4
The numbers for refining (linked above) show a definite improvement on ingredients extracted from refining.3 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭EvilAutoTech wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've seen a noticable increase. If I do my survey's I no longer need to buy from guild traders anymore.
...
If you mean basic white mats, I find that hard to believe. I do daily writs on all 18 chars main acct and even with surveys helping out, still need to buy basic mats in large bulk purchases in regular periods to keep up with consumption.
...
I do writs on 16 characters per day on my main account on the NA server. I never have to buy any crafting items whatsoever. Every few months I have to do surveys for clothing and jewelry.
Disassembly has not even been out a month, which means you’re saying you can sustain 16 char daily writs even before the update 29.
All right if that’s your statement, won’t call anyone a liar but that makes you the sole person I’ve heard of that gets equal or more basic mats back from surveys earned from crafting those same writs.
I do 18 chars x 7 writs daily, so roughly on par with your 16 chars...no way do I get anywhere near the basic mats back. Are you doing all tier1 by chance? Because tier1 mats needed are lot lower. Most large volume crafters do max tier for the netter rewards but only way I can even partially imagine self sustained writs is tier 1. (And even there it is not exactly break even, just lot better than tier 10)
Doing max tier, I end up needing to buy thousands every few weeks, and this is on top of the extra mats earned via double harvest cp which works fortunately on surveys.
Of course the gold earned more than pays for the mats bought, but in terms of surveys self sustaining max tier writs, your claim is dubious at best and if true makes you the one lucky bugged crafter where the bug is in your favor2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would think disassembly has to do with the mats returned on GEAR broken down. Not refining mats process. Try testing for the right behavior.
Meticulous Disassembly icon
Meticulous Disassembly
Improves the chances of extracting Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.
It says nothing about increased mats from refining
This is a case of OP and others reading into a thing whatever it is they WiSH it meant.and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.and allows the refining of more powerfulthe refining of morerefining
Ummm....Edited by spartaxoxo on April 3, 2021 1:46AM6 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here is tmbrinks' data from live:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7187934/#Comment_7187934
From what I can tell, it seems to align with the testing done on the PTS.
10% is a high enough increase for me to run it.Edited by zvavi on April 3, 2021 3:46AM0 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Note that the 12.5% increase is multiplicative, not additive. You are not going from 5% chance for a gold temper to a 17.5% chance. You are going from 5% to 5% * 1.125 = 5.625%. Barely more than half a percent. If you refined 200 times (2000 raw mats) with new perk, you would expect about 11 gold tempers instead of 10. But if you refined 2000 raw mats in the past, would you have been shocked to get 11 gold tempers? Would it have stood out? No. It would have been totally within expected variance.
So, is it an increase? Yes. Is it an increase that would be immediately noticeable to the naked eye? No.2 -
EvilAutoTech✭✭✭✭✭
✭EvilAutoTech wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've seen a noticable increase. If I do my survey's I no longer need to buy from guild traders anymore.
...
If you mean basic white mats, I find that hard to believe. I do daily writs on all 18 chars main acct and even with surveys helping out, still need to buy basic mats in large bulk purchases in regular periods to keep up with consumption.
...
I do writs on 16 characters per day on my main account on the NA server. I never have to buy any crafting items whatsoever. Every few months I have to do surveys for clothing and jewelry.
Disassembly has not even been out a month, which means you’re saying you can sustain 16 char daily writs even before the update 29.
All right if that’s your statement, won’t call anyone a liar but that makes you the sole person I’ve heard of that gets equal or more basic mats back from surveys earned from crafting those same writs.
I do 18 chars x 7 writs daily, so roughly on par with your 16 chars...no way do I get anywhere near the basic mats back. Are you doing all tier1 by chance? Because tier1 mats needed are lot lower. Most large volume crafters do max tier for the netter rewards but only way I can even partially imagine self sustained writs is tier 1. (And even there it is not exactly break even, just lot better than tier 10)
Doing max tier, I end up needing to buy thousands every few weeks, and this is on top of the extra mats earned via double harvest cp which works fortunately on surveys.
Of course the gold earned more than pays for the mats bought, but in terms of surveys self sustaining max tier writs, your claim is dubious at best and if true makes you the one lucky bugged crafter where the bug is in your favor
Since U29, it has been 8 max tier and 8 tier one. I had been doing 10 max tier and 5 tier one for about a year and a half. I went 50/50 after the reset specifically to save on platinum and ancestor silk. I can't rememberthe last time I bought mats, but I know it was reagents after maxing out alchemy on a few characters.0 -
PeacefulAnarchy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So you're saying you can't sustain it, then, if you switched to save on plat and silk. The tier ones are self sustaining without the surveys, so you're using the surveys from those to sustain the level 10s.EvilAutoTech wrote: »Since U29, it has been 8 max tier and 8 tier one. I had been doing 10 max tier and 5 tier one for about a year and a half. I went 50/50 after the reset specifically to save on platinum and ancestor silk. I can't rememberthe last time I bought mats, but I know it was reagents after maxing out alchemy on a few characters.
Surveys have a 1 in 8 chance of dropping. For BS and Wood you have 19*6*1.5=171 expected raw mats from survey (although some are saying the bonus drop rate isn't 50%). Which is what? About 145 refined? ( I don't know if there's a calculated drop rate for refined mats, but 7-10 per 10 is my experience, so about 8.5 per 10 on average I'd guess)
A level 10 writ requires 36-40 mats, so let's say 38. You get 15 back, so you need 23. 145/8=18. So you end up about 5 short per character, about 90 per day on 18 characters, not a lot but still a big enough deficit that RNG won't save you and you will fall behind. Ancestor silk is 2/3 the writs and two thirds the survey mats, so about even, maybe a bit higher since those require a couple of more mats each, which adds up.
Platinum requires less, but gives back less, so you end up similarly behind.
So none are self sustaining with no trading. The extra mats can make up the difference though if you sell the lower level mats and buy the higher level ones. Wood and BS might be self sustaining once you include hirelings, Silk isn't because the hirelings split it with leather, while platinum isn't because it has no hirelings.
12 and 6 maybe even 14 and 4 should be sustainable now if the 50% bonus is accurate from plentiful harvest. 18 tier 10 is still worth it, though. The extra gold mats are worth a few guild trader trips.2 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In my own personal anecdotal evidence, I've not seen any increase in mats dropping from refining.
I usually save up my surveys and do them all on Monday. (Across 13 characters)
I'm getting around 12 to 20 gold mats from refining 2k to 5k raw materials, same as before this perk was introduced with the new CP system.
In my opinion the Meticulous perk is all smoke and mirrors...I've literally seen no difference in material gained from refining.
Edit: yes I do have it slotted on my bar and activated.
I'm guessing what ZoS did was lower the chance without the perk, but adjusted the chance to what it was before the new perk, so you're not actually gaining anything more with it than before, but rather losing a chance at mats without it.
So basically with the perk fully maxed, you are where you were before. Without, the chances are lower.
Again, just my personal anecdotal evidence and opinion.
Yep, I feel the same way, both about this and other similar passives. Cutpurse's Art (I think it's called?) is a good example... with it slotted, the stuff that I get seems to average out to be the same as it was before CP 2.0. Without it I get utter garbage.
3 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does it only affect refining or does it affect when you decon gear at all?
With a name like Meticulous Disassembly I assumed it would play some role in deconing stuff.
That was my impression, too. It's meticulous "disassembly," not meticulous "refinement," so its effect should be seen when deconstructing gear, or so I assumed.
I figured it was meant to be a sort of companion ability to go along with the crafting passives that give you better results when you're refining raw materials.
EDIT -- I see from the wording that it is indeed supposed to affect deconstructing, but is also supposed to affect refining. Cool!Edited by SeaGtGruff on April 3, 2021 5:24AMI've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
linuxlady✭✭✭✭I would think disassembly has to do with the mats returned on GEAR broken down. Not refining mats process. Try testing for the right behavior.
Meticulous Disassembly icon
Meticulous Disassembly
Improves the chances of extracting Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.
It says nothing about increased mats from refining
It says "extracting...ingredients." There are two ways to "extract" ingredients: from gear, and from refining. Just like the extraction passives, with which Gina explicitly said MD is designed to stack:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562719/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-4
The numbers for refining (linked above) show a definite improvement on ingredients extracted from refining.
the link you posted has no such reference to the thing you claimed that it does.0 -
linuxlady✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »I would think disassembly has to do with the mats returned on GEAR broken down. Not refining mats process. Try testing for the right behavior.
Meticulous Disassembly icon
Meticulous Disassembly
Improves the chances of extracting Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.
It says nothing about increased mats from refining
This is a case of OP and others reading into a thing whatever it is they WiSH it meant.and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.and allows the refining of more powerfulthe refining of morerefining
Ummm....
"it allows the refining of more powerful" NOT "increases the amount of of more powerful"0