Blacknight841 wrote: »Of course it is paywalled. This is the “content” they are giving with this update.
Morrowind - Warden class
Summerset - Psijic skill line
Elsweyr - necromancer class
Greymoor - antiquities
Blackwood - companions
We went from classes and skill lines,... to mini games and a virtual ai friends.
scorpius2k1 wrote: »Exactly this. Glad there is an understanding of the logic here behind why I started this thread in the first place other than the expected monochrome responses. I thought it would be fairly obvious after last year, but I digress. Anyway, I still am not sure what to think of this new system from everything I have gathered thus far. It is definitely unique but not sure it's going to be something I would use regularly and hard to be certain until the chapter is here. Having a "combat pet" like feature available to all toons though with the exception of solo and pvp content will be interesting. A lot of systems involved with them (rapport, personalities, etc) and future companions were confirmed in the reveal, so not at all going to be surprised of them turning up in the crown store just like the housing assistants. I am curious to see where ZOS takes this, could be a big hit or a miss.Companions was never revealed as a base game feature or free update. Setting aside the observation that ESO should be a free-to-play title given its monetization structure, that's not how they've rolled with these things for multiple years. Of course it's "paywalled." Customers pay for yearly chapters and their main features, even if they already have a subscription because... corporate gymnastics? Let's call it corporate gymnastics.
Better question to ask is in what way is this feature going to be monetized further, if at all. Historically, ZoS has been (mostly) respectful about not monetizing major chapter features. If it weren't for last year's violation of this, I'd consider it a given that we're in the clear for that, but... last year happened.
you may change your mind, if they work out as advertised and allow us to essentially do a lot more group content - solo. meaning even with your connection issues, you might have an opportunity to do dungeon quests. at your own pace.Sylvermynx wrote: »Apparently. I'd be buying the chapter eventually, but I refuse to pre purchase it. I'll pick it up on sale somewhere. Though I'm not very interested in companions personally - never have been in any game I've ever played.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
robertthebard wrote: »scorpius2k1 wrote: »Exactly this. Glad there is an understanding of the logic here behind why I started this thread in the first place other than the expected monochrome responses. I thought it would be fairly obvious after last year, but I digress. Anyway, I still am not sure what to think of this new system from everything I have gathered thus far. It is definitely unique but not sure it's going to be something I would use regularly and hard to be certain until the chapter is here. Having a "combat pet" like feature available to all toons though with the exception of solo and pvp content will be interesting. A lot of systems involved with them (rapport, personalities, etc) and future companions were confirmed in the reveal, so not at all going to be surprised of them turning up in the crown store just like the housing assistants. I am curious to see where ZOS takes this, could be a big hit or a miss.Companions was never revealed as a base game feature or free update. Setting aside the observation that ESO should be a free-to-play title given its monetization structure, that's not how they've rolled with these things for multiple years. Of course it's "paywalled." Customers pay for yearly chapters and their main features, even if they already have a subscription because... corporate gymnastics? Let's call it corporate gymnastics.
Better question to ask is in what way is this feature going to be monetized further, if at all. Historically, ZoS has been (mostly) respectful about not monetizing major chapter features. If it weren't for last year's violation of this, I'd consider it a given that we're in the clear for that, but... last year happened.
I didn't take your opening post as hyperbolic, until I read your signature.
spartaxoxo wrote: »They've been monetizing major chapter features since Summerset. Jewelry crafting in Summerset, Necros in Elysweyr, Antiquities in Skyrim, and now companions in Blackwood.
l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
scorpius2k1 wrote: »Edit for the monochromatic-minded: It's blatantly obvious this is the "big feature" behind this years chapter, the concern and reason for this topic however - are we going to see something further locked behind this paywall like we did with the mythic gear being locked behind scrying?
---
Blacknight841 wrote: »Of course it is paywalled. This is the “content” they are giving with this update.
Morrowind - Warden class
Summerset - Psijic skill line
Elsweyr - necromancer class
Greymoor - antiquities
Blackwood - companions
We went from classes and skill lines,... to mini games and a virtual ai friends.
dark brotherhood: BoW
^^ Or a person could simply wait for a "free play" time period or Free ESO+ Week(end) which they do quite often (they're doing one now) and grind whichever zone the lead they need is in.
They offer these "free play" periods enough each year that a person can still get in on some of these "locked" features (even the craft bag) still, without paying a penny for whatever actual piece of content they normally don't have access too.
^^ Or a person could simply wait for a "free play" time period or Free ESO+ Week(end) which they do quite often (they're doing one now) and grind whichever zone the lead they need is in.
They offer these "free play" periods enough each year that a person can still get in on some of these "locked" features (even the craft bag) still, without paying a penny for whatever actual piece of content they normally don't have access too.
If anything, at most, some of ESO's features could be better listed as "time gated" versus "pay walled".
robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
No, not at all lmao. I actually like to play the game (see my sig). You completely missed the entire point and obviously don't understand everything that happened last year. It was kind of a big deal. Search the forums.scorpius2k1 wrote: »Edit for the monochromatic-minded: It's blatantly obvious this is the "big feature" behind this years chapter, the concern and reason for this topic however - are we going to see something further locked behind this paywall like we did with the mythic gear being locked behind scrying?
---
Locked...as in you have to play the Scrying mini-game to "unlock" the item? So you'd rather the Mythic gear just given to you?
robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I am thinking the same for me tbh after seeing what this feature is all about. I'd rather focus on my rotation and play style, not some automated npc that needs constant attention to use properly.poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »Companions. ROTFLMFAO! No, I solo the game anyway, so I do not need, or want help from an NPC.
I tolerate the ones I'm stuck with for a mission, but they are generally useless anyway. In Skyrim all my Companions just die, so early on I stopped that nonsense. In the Dawnguard DLC there is Serena, the only Companion I have actually tried to kill, so no. No Comapions for me.
Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.