The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
💰 Companions are Paywalled...
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B0SSzombieâœâœâœâœâœ
âœThe Chapter has content exclusive to it that entices purchase. Go figure.
It's not like Warden and Necromancer were the most powerful classes when they debuted, or Jewelry Crafting made it infinitely easier to obtain Gold (and therefore stronger) Jewelry, or that Scrying is one of easiest sources of income..0 -
poodlemasterb16_ESOâœâœâœâœâœB0SSzombie wrote: »The Chapter has content exclusive to it that entices purchase. Go figure.
It's not like Warden and Necromancer were the most powerful classes when they debuted, or Jewelry Crafting made it infinitely easier to obtain Gold (and therefore stronger) Jewelry, or that Scrying is one of easiest sources of income..
The point of Jewellery is so us Crafters have 3 more slots for our sets. Makes a big difference.1 -
robertthebardâœâœâœâœâœ^^ Or a person could simply wait for a "free play" time period or Free ESO+ Week(end) which they do quite often (they're doing one now) and grind whichever zone the lead they need is in.
They offer these "free play" periods enough each year that a person can still get in on some of these "locked" features (even the craft bag) still, without paying a penny for whatever actual piece of content they normally don't have access too.
If a customer buys a product to have access to a major chapter feature, that shouldn't come with conditions that aren't made 100% transparent to the customer at the time of purchase. All they would have had to do is add a disclaimer "additional purchases necessary to complete some mythic items and to obtain antiquities in DLC zones." They weren't transparent about this, and that is not OK - at best it is misleading advertising. Free ESO+ weeks doesn't excuse that ZoS wasn't transparent about the fact that completing some mythic items - a major selling point for the chapter - required additional purchases. While this wasn't an issue for me, personally, I really dislike that they did this at all and it means I do not trust chapter features I purchase in the future to be complete.
So it's fairly obvious, to me, that a feature that includes all maps in the game may have other maps added later. Where's the disconnect?1 -
DreamsUnderStarsâœâœâœâœâœIt's a part of the expansion, you get the companions with the expansion (same as with Antiquities last time). That's not a paywall... now if you had to buy the companions off the cash shop, after buying the expansion, that would be a paywall.1 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœI'm honestly surprised anyone actually wants the companion feature. It seems pretty...idk, meh and I don't really recall players ever asking for it. It's like now that it's a thing, people think they need it? Ah, capitalism!
But that said, every expansion has had paywalled content so what did you expect? Warden class, jewelry crafting, Necro class, now companions. It's ZOS' business model. Deal with it or I guess go play another game. And honestly the only one of these things I think shouldn't have been paywalled was jewelry crafting. That was a major screw-over and everyone at ZOS behind that decision is probably a horrible human being (granted I don't have a even modestly good opinion of everyone who works for ZOS). But companions? I've tried to care but just can't.
I'm looking forward to companions. and yes people asked for them. why? because in other games that have them, companions make it possible to run certain content solo that they would otherwise need to group for.
we have people who are actively convinced that their desire to speed run a dungeon supersedes desire of other people to finish a dungeon quest. we have world bosses that yeah, sure some of you can solo, but not everyone can... and those world bosses can be difficult to find groups for sometimes. and we have a LOT of people who came here from Skyrim and miss being able to recruit and play around with companions. so... there is that.
and... the issue is not expansion paywall alone. the issue is adding additional paywalls on top of expansion content paywall.
now, I personaly do not think its going to be an issue with companions. but given that it WAS an issue with antiquities, its a concern worth raising.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
jaws343âœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Ring of the Pale order was not released with the Antiquities system. It was released in a DLC afterwards. So yeah, I'd expect a player to buy the DLC to get the items that are released with that DLC.
If you actually look at the Mythics released during Greymoor, the only one that required a DLC was Snow Treaders. And that required Murkmire. Which, guess what, was given free to players shortly after release with daily rewards.
There are some Imperial City locations, which are base game now. And the only other DLC zone is Wrothgar. Which, lets face it, at this point Wrothgar might as well be base game. It hardly counts as surprising that things would show up in Wrothgar.0 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Ring of the Pale order was not released with the Antiquities system. It was released in a DLC afterwards. So yeah, I'd expect a player to buy the DLC to get the items that are released with that DLC.
If you actually look at the Mythics released during Greymoor, the only one that required a DLC was Snow Treaders. And that required Murkmire. Which, guess what, was given free to players shortly after release with daily rewards.
There are some Imperial City locations, which are base game now. And the only other DLC zone is Wrothgar. Which, lets face it, at this point Wrothgar might as well be base game. It hardly counts as surprising that things would show up in Wrothgar.
if you didn't play when Murkmire was free - you do not have it for free. there are a few people with that issue. wrothgar is not base game. its a separate purchase. Imperial City is free now, so THAT might as well be base game. Wrothgar is not.
I picked ring of pale order at random. but even so - there are DLC leads that are confined to that DLC. that's fine. a compound item however, regardless of when it released should NOT require additional purchases. either its confined entirely to the DLC, or its basegame_+ whatever chapter or DLC it came with.
and I mean... of COURSE they want people to subscribe or buy DLC's. they ARE in it for the profit. doesn't make it any less sneaky and not so great.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
jaws343âœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.0 -
jaws343âœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Ring of the Pale order was not released with the Antiquities system. It was released in a DLC afterwards. So yeah, I'd expect a player to buy the DLC to get the items that are released with that DLC.
If you actually look at the Mythics released during Greymoor, the only one that required a DLC was Snow Treaders. And that required Murkmire. Which, guess what, was given free to players shortly after release with daily rewards.
There are some Imperial City locations, which are base game now. And the only other DLC zone is Wrothgar. Which, lets face it, at this point Wrothgar might as well be base game. It hardly counts as surprising that things would show up in Wrothgar.
if you didn't play when Murkmire was free - you do not have it for free. there are a few people with that issue. wrothgar is not base game. its a separate purchase. Imperial City is free now, so THAT might as well be base game. Wrothgar is not.
I picked ring of pale order at random. but even so - there are DLC leads that are confined to that DLC. that's fine. a compound item however, regardless of when it released should NOT require additional purchases. either its confined entirely to the DLC, or its basegame_+ whatever chapter or DLC it came with.
and I mean... of COURSE they want people to subscribe or buy DLC's. they ARE in it for the profit. doesn't make it any less sneaky and not so great.
If a compound item was released with the DLC it is tied to, then it is clearly a DLC release. Buy all the content for the game, or don't get all of the items the game has to offer. Really simple.0 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone. if companion is released with a particular DLC and can be acquired from that DLC's story? fine. its still technically confined to a DLC. its not like you start to recruit them within a chapter.. only to be told - nope can't keep going, need to buy DLC to progress their acquisition quest.
and before you bring up prologues, prologues are self contained quests.Edited by Linaleah on April 1, 2021 5:39PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
jaws343âœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.0 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
jaws343âœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
But by your very clear exception "my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone" any antiquities released in Markarth, even the ones confined to Markarth, are all bad. As well as any future antiquities tied to any zone that is not Western Skyrim or base game.
Because, when you bought Greymoor for Antiquities, you had no knowledge of the existence of any future antiquities because they were not even known about yet.
There is no difference between an Antiquity released in a DLC zone that is tied only to that zone or an Antiquity released with that same DLC zone that has leads also in other zones. In both cases, it is impossible to get that Antiquity without buying the DLC.
0 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
But by your very clear exception "my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone" any antiquities released in Markarth, even the ones confined to Markarth, are all bad. As well as any future antiquities tied to any zone that is not Western Skyrim or base game.
Because, when you bought Greymoor for Antiquities, you had no knowledge of the existence of any future antiquities because they were not even known about yet.
There is no difference between an Antiquity released in a DLC zone that is tied only to that zone or an Antiquity released with that same DLC zone that has leads also in other zones. In both cases, it is impossible to get that Antiquity without buying the DLC.
sigh. there is very much a difference between antiquity that can be started but NOT completed, vs antiquity that cannot be started. so once again, I reiterate. compound antiquities are a problem. requiring DLC's to complete mythic items that you can start within base zones? is a problem.
imagine if BoP gear sets, released within a DLC.. cannot be completed unless you buy a different DLC - like... gloves and belt for a set are in original DLC they released with, but if you want a chest piece? need to buy another DLC to farm for it. and so you cannot have a 5 pc set, unless you spend extra money... even though ostensibly a set released with a particular DLC. this is what we are talking about here.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Goregrinderâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
That's not an accurate comparison. You have the antiquities skill lines completely unlocked when you buy Greymoor. Completely. You can max out excavation and scrying without any additional DLC. Your comparison of the bow skill line says "Well what if scrying 9 and 10 were locked behind another DLC?..." but it's not...we're not comparing parts of skill lines being locked behind multiple forms of DLC. What scrying and excavation can get you (leads) are 100% going to be locked behind DLC as new pieces of gear are added to the game.
Yes, certain items you can obtain via antiquities will require you to purchase DLC content in order to complete said lead or find said lead...water is also wet. Just like new mounts and gear will require DLC access, new dungeons new quest lines....they're not going to just give all of that to anyone who simply purchased the game for $12 bucks. I really feel no sympathy for you here. You paid for your driver's license but also want a Ferrari included with the $50 DMV fee.....sorry the license unlocks driving for you, getting that Ferrari lead is extra.2 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
That's not an accurate comparison. You have the antiquities skill lines completely unlocked when you buy Greymoor. Completely. You can max out excavation and scrying without any additional DLC. Your comparison of the bow skill line says "Well what if scrying 9 and 10 were locked behind another DLC?..." but it's not...we're not comparing parts of skill lines being locked behind multiple forms of DLC. What scrying and excavation can get you (leads) are 100% going to be locked behind DLC as new pieces of gear are added to the game.
Yes, certain items you can obtain via antiquities will require you to purchase DLC content in order to complete said lead or find said lead...water is also wet. Just like new mounts and gear will require DLC access, new dungeons new quest lines....they're not going to just give all of that to anyone who simply purchased the game for $12 bucks. I really feel no sympathy for you here. You paid for your driver's license but also want a Ferrari included with the $50 DMV fee.....sorry the license unlocks driving for you, getting that Ferrari lead is extra.
sigh, i should have known that arguing with you is like beating a head against the wall.
your ferrari comparison is hilarious because what we have here is not asking for ferrari to be included with a $50 dmv fee, but rather... you getting yourself a license, and then buying a ferrari, only to be told oh, btw, engine and transmission come separately and you have to buy this extra thing before you can acess and install them.
and honey? i do not need your sympathy.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
robertthebardâœâœâœâœâœGoregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
Did that feature not come with what you purchased? Did I miss the part where they said "You'll be able to obtain every item in this content release"? You see, there's a difference between the feature, scrying, and the items that can be made/found via scrying.1 -
merpinsâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœI mean... Yeah? It's the selling point of the chapter, just like how Necromancer was the selling point of the previous main chapter, and Warden for the one before that.
However I would like to see them releasing more companions and adding coherent quests and questlines that involve companions throughout ALL previous zones including the base game zones, since that would be a smart move and would add more content into the game throughout zones that haven't had any new content in them for years at this point. But obviously it would be something to consider once the expansion has been out for 6 months to a year, as to incentivize people to buy the expansion.0 -
DMuehlhausenâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœscorpius2k1 wrote: »From @ZOS_RichLambert in today's reveal for Blackwood:
"There are two different companions available in the chapter launch, and they are unlocked by completing quests in the Blackwood Zone"
https://twitch.tv/videos/970201605?t=1h36m48s
So we must purchase the new chapter to even have the companions feature, same as Scrying being locked behind the Skyrim chapter purchase? Just want to confirm I heard that correctly.
Extra clarification: it's blatantly obvious this is the "big feature" behind this years chapter, the concern and reason for this topic isn't paying for it, etc, but are we going to see something further locked behind paywalls like we did with the mythic gear?
Ex:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7192448/#Comment_7192448
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7191752/#Comment_7191752
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7191594/#Comment_7191594
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7191628/#Comment_7191628
---
Here we go again. Every MMO does this basically ever game that does expansions does this. New features come out in those expansions. if you want the new features you have to buy the expansion. This is nothing new, and it's not going anywhere.
you want to talk about a game that is pay walled go try SWTOR Free to Play. Where you get 2 of you 5 total companion, even if you do their quests. You only get 1 of the 3 possible crafting skills unless you pay extra. You can only do 1 Flashpoint (dungeon) and 1 PvP event a day. You can equip 1 purple item. You have to pay for extra skill bars.
That is putting stuff behind a paywall. This is simply releasing new features (as any software developer does even for productivity software for an office) they have been in the works for years in a new expansion.2 -
PrinceDamienâœâœâœâœNew expansion/chapter, new Paywall thread.
Been a while since I saw a thread about how Jewel crafting is OP and how it outperforms those who don't buy it.
I wonder if all them haters quit the game or something.
/sEdited by PrinceDamien on April 1, 2021 7:09PM0 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœrobertthebard wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
Did that feature not come with what you purchased? Did I miss the part where they said "You'll be able to obtain every item in this content release"? You see, there's a difference between the feature, scrying, and the items that can be made/found via scrying.
tell me. are you ok with miscellaneous furnishings achievement being behind a paywall as well? after all... you can still do housing, you just cannot get that achievement, unless you open up your pocketbook, cause the only miscellaneous furnishings in game are crown store only. (and they didn't used to be, but they have recategorized the in game miscellaneous furnishings, and now its crown store only achievement)
why is this relevant? because its the same idea of features essentially being sold in an incomplete form and made even more incomplete further down the line, unless you pay extra. so are you ok with this? just curious.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
robertthebardâœâœâœâœâœrobertthebard wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
Did that feature not come with what you purchased? Did I miss the part where they said "You'll be able to obtain every item in this content release"? You see, there's a difference between the feature, scrying, and the items that can be made/found via scrying.
tell me. are you ok with miscellaneous furnishings achievement being behind a paywall as well? after all... you can still do housing, you just cannot get that achievement, unless you open up your pocketbook, cause the only miscellaneous furnishings in game are crown store only. (and they didn't used to be, but they have recategorized the in game miscellaneous furnishings, and now its crown store only achievement)
why is this relevant? because its the same idea of features essentially being sold in an incomplete form and made even more incomplete further down the line, unless you pay extra. so are you ok with this? just curious.
Is it? So you have to access to maps that haven't been released yet in order for scrying to be complete?0 -
jaws343âœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœrobertthebard wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
Did that feature not come with what you purchased? Did I miss the part where they said "You'll be able to obtain every item in this content release"? You see, there's a difference between the feature, scrying, and the items that can be made/found via scrying.
tell me. are you ok with miscellaneous furnishings achievement being behind a paywall as well? after all... you can still do housing, you just cannot get that achievement, unless you open up your pocketbook, cause the only miscellaneous furnishings in game are crown store only. (and they didn't used to be, but they have recategorized the in game miscellaneous furnishings, and now its crown store only achievement)
why is this relevant? because its the same idea of features essentially being sold in an incomplete form and made even more incomplete further down the line, unless you pay extra. so are you ok with this? just curious.
I mean, yeah. I am playing Elder Scrolls Online. So I would expect that in order to accomplish everything in the game I would need access all parts of the game.
The fact is, everything about the system, including current lead locations, was available 5 weeks before launch of Greymoor. Meaning players had ample time to access their purchase. The fact is, ZOS also informed us that future content would come with more antiquities and mythics. A reasonable person would look at the leads available within Greymoor and deduce that that future content would be similar. Nothing was hidden or sneaky. And really, when you bought Greymoor for the Antiquities, you bought only the skill line and the ability to find antiquities. That's it. You didn't buy the Pale Order ring. You didn't buy whatever items they introduce with this next chapter. Those did not exist at the time. So you aren't missing out on them. They were never part of the deal. But, you now own the skill line to access them if you choose to get the new content. That is all you purchased.0 -
josiahvaâœâœâœâœâœ
âœscorpius2k1 wrote: »From @ZOS_RichLambert in today's reveal for Blackwood:
"There are two different companions available in the chapter launch, and they are unlocked by completing quests in the Blackwood Zone"
https://twitch.tv/videos/970201605?t=1h36m48s
So we must purchase the new chapter to even have the companions feature, same as Scrying being locked behind the Skyrim chapter purchase? Just want to confirm I heard that correctly.
Extra clarification: it's blatantly obvious this is the "big feature" behind this years chapter, the concern and reason for this topic isn't paying for it, etc, but are we going to see something further locked behind paywalls like we did with the mythic gear?
Ex:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7192448/#Comment_7192448
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7191752/#Comment_7191752
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7191594/#Comment_7191594
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7191628/#Comment_7191628
---
So what? If I want to play content in a video game...I expect to have to buy the video game first. I don't understand what the problem is? ZOS has staff....these staff are NOT volunteers, they must be paid a paycheck for their work. I wouldn't expect you to work for free...why are you expecting other people to work for free?0 -
Linaleahâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœrobertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
Did that feature not come with what you purchased? Did I miss the part where they said "You'll be able to obtain every item in this content release"? You see, there's a difference between the feature, scrying, and the items that can be made/found via scrying.
tell me. are you ok with miscellaneous furnishings achievement being behind a paywall as well? after all... you can still do housing, you just cannot get that achievement, unless you open up your pocketbook, cause the only miscellaneous furnishings in game are crown store only. (and they didn't used to be, but they have recategorized the in game miscellaneous furnishings, and now its crown store only achievement)
why is this relevant? because its the same idea of features essentially being sold in an incomplete form and made even more incomplete further down the line, unless you pay extra. so are you ok with this? just curious.
Is it? So you have to access to maps that haven't been released yet in order for scrying to be complete?
sigh. no. I should be able to complete items that are available in base game OR any one dlc - without having to buy acess to further DLC's. which is why I brought up the idea of a BoP gear set being spread across multiple DLC's so that in order to get a 5 pc set bonus, you had to pay extra, instead of the way they are tied to a singular DLC at a time. if there is an item that needs to be assembled and is introduced with a new DLC? you should only need that DLC to complete it.
psijic skill line is complete. we get portals in DLC zones, but we do not need those DLC to complete the line or loot portals outside of it. warden and necromancer are complete because in order to utilize them you either have their associated chapters, or you buy them as a class and you do not need anything else to play them other then the base game.
housing used to be complete. since you didn't need crown store or DLC to complete all of the achievements for it. its not complete anymore. antiquities is not complete because mythic items require multiple DLC's to complete, not just graymoor and base game.
and yes SWTOR monetanization is awful. there are games out there that are even worse. are we really going with "at least we are not AS bad"dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
jaws343âœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœrobertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
Did that feature not come with what you purchased? Did I miss the part where they said "You'll be able to obtain every item in this content release"? You see, there's a difference between the feature, scrying, and the items that can be made/found via scrying.
tell me. are you ok with miscellaneous furnishings achievement being behind a paywall as well? after all... you can still do housing, you just cannot get that achievement, unless you open up your pocketbook, cause the only miscellaneous furnishings in game are crown store only. (and they didn't used to be, but they have recategorized the in game miscellaneous furnishings, and now its crown store only achievement)
why is this relevant? because its the same idea of features essentially being sold in an incomplete form and made even more incomplete further down the line, unless you pay extra. so are you ok with this? just curious.
Is it? So you have to access to maps that haven't been released yet in order for scrying to be complete?
sigh. no. I should be able to complete items that are available in base game OR any one dlc - without having to buy acess to further DLC's. which is why I brought up the idea of a BoP gear set being spread across multiple DLC's so that in order to get a 5 pc set bonus, you had to pay extra, instead of the way they are tied to a singular DLC at a time. if there is an item that needs to be assembled and is introduced with a new DLC? you should only need that DLC to complete it.
psijic skill line is complete. we get portals in DLC zones, but we do not need those DLC to complete the line or loot portals outside of it. warden and necromancer are complete because in order to utilize them you either have their associated chapters, or you buy them as a class and you do not need anything else to play them other then the base game.
housing used to be complete. since you didn't need crown store or DLC to complete all of the achievements for it. its not complete anymore. antiquities is not complete because mythic items require multiple DLC's to complete, not just graymoor and base game.
and yes SWTOR monetanization is awful. there are games out there that are even worse. are we really going with "at least we are not AS bad"
This is where I think you have a misunderstanding of what Greymoor offered. You weren't buying mythics. You were buying a skill line that let's you hunt for mythics and antiquities. You can entirely obtain and level said skill line without leaving Greymoor.0 -
robertthebardâœâœâœâœâœrobertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »l
After ZoS required additional purchases to complete some epic items from antiquities last year, there's now grounds for concern that they will do something similar with the companions feature. And the companions feature just in general is ripe for additional layers of monetization - it already plugs right in to existing monetization systems. Quite clever.
Ah. I understand now. I actually strongly disagree with that. Antiquities, for what it is was, could honestly only have been monetized this way. It was sold that way imo, and I never expected anything less. If I am to be able to explore the world finding the Antiquities, I would expect to actually find good stuff all over the place. And if they hadn't monetized that way, then Antiquities would be the first major system we couldn't use anywhere we could go.
We can use the jewelry we craft anywhere and put a jewelry station in any home.
We can use necros anywhere.
We can use transmuted gear anywhere.
So why wouldn't leads also drop anywhere? I actually would have felt cheated if the antiquity system was limited to only Western Skyrim because it would have been the only major new feature that we couldn't benefit from anywhere we could go.
So naturally, I would expect leads to come from anywhere and not just Western Skyrim.
Since leads are buried treasure, that also means ofc there would be Antiquities you couldn't access if you could not go anywhere.
The same inherently limiting factor is NOT part of companions. So I very much doubt there would be any reason why you'd to go to other locations to use them, aside from perhaps romantic quests.
see this is all fine, but.
the problem with antiquities is that the actual gear items require acess to DLC's. its not that there are individual leads in DLC's but rather to fully create an item - you HAD to have DLC acess. and to qualify for a golden coin, you also had to have acess to all the DLC content. that there are leads everywhere - is nice. but compound items should have never required anything outside of Skyrim and base game. IMO. it was a very sneaky and kinda not so nice way to push DLC (or subscription) sales.
So your problem is that they didn't put everything you need for something on one map?
how do you take "it should have been kept to base game" as one map?
my problem is that compound leads require DLC. I LIKE that there are leads everywhere. that there are unique furnishings, etc in every single zone. i do NOT think its good design that some of these things have leads that start in base game but cannot be completed unless you have acess to DLC as well. that is what makes antiquities different from other expansion features.
and bear in mind. I have subscription. it doesn't affect me personaly. but that doesn't mean that its a o'key to do.
I don't see how it matters that leads are available in all zones, you can't dig them up without unlocking antiquities anyways. That's like saying "You should only be allowed to wear the new gear from the new DLC in that DLC zone...". No, you need the DLC to unlock access to the gear, but that gear should definitely exist in all zones, even outside of said DLC zone. Your argument makes no sense to me.
consider for a moment. that you are a returning player and only bought the most recent expansion UPGRADE for its features. you can learn it and you can start finding leads... but you cannot complete the items because you need to subscribe or buy additional dlc's? how are you still missing the point here?
and here is the thing its NOT the same as DLC gear. DLC gear that is BoE can be sold on guild traders. I'm NOT complaining that there are leads in every zone. I'm complaining about things like THIS https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order base zone, base zone, base zone, woops - have to buy Wrothgar and Markarth to finish this item. you were teased with leads found in the base game... but nope. can't complete it unless you pay extra. syke!
imagine if you are trying to assemble a pet that was released with Summerset... but you cannot finish it, because some of the parts are hidden in Elsweyr. this is what we are dealing with here.
clockwork precursor for example has you going around different zones. but... other then clockwork DLC itself, it only sends you to base game zones. which is how it SHOULD be.
Yes, that's content that came out after antiquities was added. Unlocking antiquities doesn't mean you've now unlocked every lead the game will ever have forever. Is that what you were expecting? That's like me unlocking the Bow skill line and expecting every bow to now be available to me forever because I paid to have the bow skill line unlocked by buying the base game...not how it works.
how do you continue to MISS THE POINT?
imagine you unlock the bow skill - lets imagine that bow skill comes from a particular expansion. but the last two skills in the line are locked behind additional DLC purchases. THIS. THIS is the problem.
I'm not talking about being able to acess every lead. I'm talking about being able to complete COMPOUND leads without additional purchases.
So is your expectation that they should never release any antiquities for any future content zones? Because that seems a little ridiculous. Just because Greymoor had antiquities, doesn't mean Markarth, or Blackwood shouldn't.
Like, Blackwood is introducing Companions. Would it then be a problem if the Q4 DLC released a companion that you could obtain in the zone? Or any future zones for that matter. None of that takes away from the fact that a limited set were released in the chapter that introduced them, with the promise that more would come in other ways. The exact same thing they said with the Antiquities when they were announced.
sigh. no. my expectation is that if they release a DLC zone, then whatever leads are in it - are confined to that zone.
Why? What does it matter? If the only way to access the item is to buy that DLC, why does it matter if there are leads in other zones? They don't take up inventory space, you won't see them ever after you get the first one. It's just uselessly limiting to one zone. There is no point to do that.
Just like there is no point to not have antiquity leads in every zone in game.
it matters because it is an advertised feature you may have bought the expansion for in a first place. and not just antiquities in general, but mythic items specifically (they did use them as a selling point) and you cannot complete them. if you buy a chapter for a feature. then that feature can NOT require anything other then base game to utilize.
Did that feature not come with what you purchased? Did I miss the part where they said "You'll be able to obtain every item in this content release"? You see, there's a difference between the feature, scrying, and the items that can be made/found via scrying.
tell me. are you ok with miscellaneous furnishings achievement being behind a paywall as well? after all... you can still do housing, you just cannot get that achievement, unless you open up your pocketbook, cause the only miscellaneous furnishings in game are crown store only. (and they didn't used to be, but they have recategorized the in game miscellaneous furnishings, and now its crown store only achievement)
why is this relevant? because its the same idea of features essentially being sold in an incomplete form and made even more incomplete further down the line, unless you pay extra. so are you ok with this? just curious.
Is it? So you have to access to maps that haven't been released yet in order for scrying to be complete?
sigh. no. I should be able to complete items that are available in base game OR any one dlc - without having to buy acess to further DLC's. which is why I brought up the idea of a BoP gear set being spread across multiple DLC's so that in order to get a 5 pc set bonus, you had to pay extra, instead of the way they are tied to a singular DLC at a time. if there is an item that needs to be assembled and is introduced with a new DLC? you should only need that DLC to complete it.
psijic skill line is complete. we get portals in DLC zones, but we do not need those DLC to complete the line or loot portals outside of it. warden and necromancer are complete because in order to utilize them you either have their associated chapters, or you buy them as a class and you do not need anything else to play them other then the base game.
housing used to be complete. since you didn't need crown store or DLC to complete all of the achievements for it. its not complete anymore. antiquities is not complete because mythic items require multiple DLC's to complete, not just graymoor and base game.
and yes SWTOR monetanization is awful. there are games out there that are even worse. are we really going with "at least we are not AS bad"
Except that the DLC takes an entire year to come out. We get parts of the story at a time, not the full release, and it's been this way for how long? So you didn't get access to everything all at once? What that tells me is that, like every other MMO in existence, they want you to play longer, and hopefully, while you're playing longer, to spend some more money. I want so much to share in this dismay at a business trying to make money, but I know entirely too many self employed people for that to apply.0 -
Starlockâœâœâœâœâœ
âœâœâœâœâœThis is where I think you have a misunderstanding of what Greymoor offered. You weren't buying mythics. You were buying a skill line that let's you hunt for mythics and antiquities.
When a company explicitly markets mythic items as a major draw of the chapter feature, I don't think there's a leg to stand on here. Players absolutely bought the chapter to have access to mythic items, specifically. There is no "misunderstanding" when ZoS was hyping up this feature without mentioning additional purchases were necessary to finish some of these mythic items. One of these items that requires additional purchases is also one that's been called out as feeling "pay to win" to some players - Malcath's Band of Brutality, only able to be completed if a customer buys the chapter AND Wrothgar. There was no reason to further paywall this item. But they did, and weren't transparent about it, and that's troubling. We may see the same thing with companions.1