Auction House

SafeForSure · April 2014

Yes!

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Player shops instead of auction! :-)
I really want these.

Then we have goldspam and little shops spam littered al around.

Dyvim · April 2014

Yes!

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

The only folks that want an AH are the same ones that like to help break the economy.

What economy? This game doesn't really have one. Large, efficient markets do NOT break economies, they make them. This game doesn't have any large, efficient markets, and hence no real economy to speak off...

LadyInTheWater · April 2014

No!

Okay, here's my attempt at a compelling argument against an auction house:

A global auction house in Elder Scrolls Online, which was accessible to all players, would allow people to buy out any particular item. I'm going to use Turpen as an example, as it's the first item that comes to mind.

Let's say we have an auction house. And let's say that Turpen ranges anywhere from 500g each to 1500g each. Let's say there's a guy named Sellman. Sellman has about 3 Turpen, and he wants to know what the average price is. He asks in chat, and people say "Between 500g and 1500g". So, he decides that he wants to sell it in a good amount of time, so he lists his 3 Turpen for about 800g each.

And let's say a player, we'll call him Buyman, he has a decent handful of gold.

Buyman decides he's going to buy out as much of the Turpen as he can. He opens the global AH, and now he has access to every single Turpen listed for sale. So, he decides to buy out every Turpen that's listed, and reposts them all for 2000g each.

The next day, Sellman has 3 more Turpen. He asks "What's Turpen going for"? And people respond with "About 2000g". So, he wants to move his Turpen quickly, so he posts it for sale at 1900g each. Buyman sees this, buys out all his Turpen, and relists it for 2000g.

So, let's say I haven't logged in for a couple days. Last time I saw, Turpen was between 500g and 1500g. It still has the same "drop" rate, the rarity hasn't changed. It still does the same thing. I figure I'll log in, scrounge up 1k, and buy 2 Turpen. There should be a couple cheap ones on the AH, right? I want them for my crafting.

I go to the AH, and instead they're selling for 2000 each. In a brief amount of time, Turpen has increased in price, without increasing in rarity, nor increasing in demand.

Let's say a guy named Goldfarmer comes along. He decides he needs to make some gold. He has access to a global AH, so he knows he has access to all the Turpen being sold. He buys out all the Turpen at 2k each, and reposts them all for 4k each. Let's say his whole in-game life revolves around selling things, simply so he can make a lot of gold to "keep" (wink wink). So, he spends all day staring at the Auction House, buying out Turpen and keeping the price up. If crafters are in a situation where they'd like to purchase Turpen, it's no longer going for 500-1500g, it's now going for 4k.

Now, let's say Craftman, a blacksmith, sells swords. His usual selling price of a sword is 1000g plus the price of materials. Someone wants a blue-quality level 10 sword. Well, last week that sword's Turpen cost was as low as 2500g. Now, that sword's Turpen cost is 20,000g. 20,000g for a level 10 blue-quality sword.

So, the alternative (the system we have now):
We have guild stores. No one has 100% access to all the Turpen sold in-game. Some people overlap, and perhaps some people will still buy out items and resell them. But it won't ever be on a global scale. It doesn't completely prevent the possibility that a small handful of people could artificially cause inflation in the community, but it does mitigate it.

To accomplish the act of buying out any single product in the game, simply to relist it for profit, would require a large amount of footwork, micromanagement, and cooperation from a group of people.

So, that's my argument against a Global Auction House.

My very personal opinion, of which I have zero evidence, I believe my scenario is related to many proponents of an increase in bag size as well. It is my personal belief that many of the people asking for an auction house are also the players asking for a drastic increase in inventory/bank space. And I believe it's so they can participate in the scenario I listed above.

If someone could explain a way to wholly prevent massive buying/relisting of items on a global auction house, I would quickly change my opinion and be a supporter. As for now, that's the number 1 reason I do not want a global auction house in-game.

Dyvim · April 2014

Yes!

Again, if you took any econ classes in college, get your money back. For your scenario to work, they would have to also control the means of production or be able to impact it. Otherwise, they are only impacting part of the curve and skewing it into inefficiency. Markets have a way of correcting themselves...and consumers have a way of working around those inefficiencies, when prices are obvious outliers. Now, if you can come up with a scenario where someone can control the supply of new items coming into the economy, there is no substitute or workaround for that item, and they have the money to buy everything that is already there, then they could do something, effectively, like you describe...assuming the devs didn't change the game and make the item worthless overnight, as so often happens when new tiers of gear or loot are introduced.

In a large market, efficiencies of supply and demand are cooked in, by sheer numbers. In a smaller market, it would be easier for someone to buy up x...in a larger market, with more buyers and sellers, it is harder to corner the market...

Basically you are in favor of the current system because you think it is kind of a security through inaccessibility...yet there is no guarantee, whatsoever, that all these little inefficient smaller markets will have the good you are looking for, or that it will be efficiently priced in terms of supply and demand...in fact, the odds are against it.

Now can someone come in and try to control an item and corner the market...yeah, sure, but they will never be successful unless they can also control the production, and they will be even less successful if there are alternatives to the item, or it is not a must have. But yes, gaming the market, or arbitrage is what a lot of players like to do....but it is like gambling, changes to the game, and changes to its items can cause hoarders and arbitragers to lose their shirt over night...one thing that was nice about the GW2 AH was all the data on pricing, including historical data, that was readily accessible to buyers and sellers.

TigTrivers · April 2014

Yes!

We really need one so we can establish a proper economy every guild store sells things at really different prices so its hard to know what anything is really worth.

Whats the point in fillling all your guild spots with trade guilds and having to go through each one looking for what you want then looking for the best price its too time consuming and no one wants to do it.

All the guild stores are just full of over priced crap that no one wants so no one uses them anymore nothing is selling except for though the chat.

I dont really understand why people would be against it it wont be a replacement for guild sotres they can still exist it will be an upgrade but as long as it comes with a search bar I'd be happy

cymatt · April 2014

Yes!

We really need a Auction House.
Actually i only trade with Chat.

I hate that Tadeguild thing.

Sydänyö · April 2014

One idea I've been thinking about might be nice would be a trade channel, where you'd link your item, but you would also set a price for it, and you couldn't chat on that channel. The item you'd link would go into a "reserved state" of some sort for like a few minutes. If nobody would buy it, it would be "released" back to be usable again.

Then people would see the channel just like any other; items would scroll on it whenever people would link them. However, you could just click a "buy" button on that item link to buy it straight off the chat window. The item would be taken from the seller and you would get it in the mail, while the seller would get the gold in the mail.

Not exactly an auction house, and you could have a separate channel for different areas. Also, one could just spend time staring at the items scrolling on the channel, picking up good deals and so on.

Most likely it would have huge hurdles and whatnot, but I haven't seen something quite like that in any of the games I've played, and I think it might be pretty nice.

Shimizu · April 2014

Yes!

Brennan wrote: »

Shimizu wrote: »

I find that the guild store system, while interesting and a good idea in theory, doesn't work so well in practice. To maximize potential sales transactions it seems guilds try to be 'as big as possible' so no, you aren't buying and selling with the people you know, you're buying and selling with 800 strangers and the guild chat is rarely used.***

As opposed to buying and selling with 10,000 strangers. Systems are not social or not social. People are social or not social.

That's kind of my point - there's little difference between buying and selling with 800 strangers, than buying and selling with 10,000 strangers as far as the social element is concerned. The only thing the current system does is limit the potential market, not increase the social dynamic.

Kalei · April 2014

Yes!

I don't have a big reason as to way I'm all for it
But I've played a bunch of games with AH
And I really like the system
You're not depending on people being online at the right time for the item you want. I think that's an advantage.

Shimizu · April 2014

Yes!

So from what I can see reading through these posts, here's what I'm understanding:

Arguments FOR a Global Market
- Other games have it, (the 'status quo') -" ESO should be like other games"
- Larger potential market to search for needed goods (buying)
- Larger potential market of customers (selling)
- Convenience of use (searching 1 thing instead of 5)
- Complete product availability [all players listing all items] whereas guild stores are limited to the guild's capabilities of item acquisition (IE, if there are no veteran players, no veteran items will be listed, and so forth).
- Guild stores could still be a thing, a more exclusive market priced for guildmates
- Increased likelihood to utilise a global market to buy/sell due to increased product availability & increased potential customers as opposed to guild markets; (IE, many things get vendored as listed on guild markets, they don't sell).
- Global price standardisation (as a good thing)

ArgumentsAGAINST a Global Market
- Other games may have it, but "ESO doesn't need to be like other games"
- Vulnerable to potential for 'global' price manipulation on particular products particularly by gold farmers, whereas guild based markets are compartmentalised with limited access and would not suffer this vulnerability.
- Vulnerable to activities that could cause game-wide economic crises in the event of bug exploits etc as opposed to confining these to a few guilds.
- Global price standardisation (as a bad thing)
- This is the way things are (why change it)

I would point out that the first argument on both sides, "other games have it" - becomes completely a matter of opinion on whether or not you feel ESO should be like other games, or not like other games, and does not contribute anything to the actual merit of having or not having a global market. The same goes for price standardisation - people who feel that having price variance between guilds, allowing them to get good deals and/or "play the market" is preferable, and people who feel that having a standard, price-checkable global price for something is preferable, the bottom line is, this is down to preference and does not weigh heavily on the merits of implementing (or not ) such a system.

On the arguments against, the loudest voices seem to be saying "this is how the game is now" and suggesting that because this is the original concept and current state of things so it should remain forever as the developer's original vision. However, there are many things in the game "the way it is now" that have been and will continue to be changing in light of better ways to do things. Online games evolve, that is their nature, and refusing to implement a new and potentially better system simply to preserve the integrity of the original iteration is a bit shortsighted.

One very good argument posted against a global market posted above from LadyIntheWater is the vulnerability of a global market to price hijacking and manipulation particularly due to the market's accessibility by gold farmers or other non legitimate players. The simplest solution to this, as many games have done, would be to require that a character (or account) have a certain number of hours of played time and/or a certain level threshold met in order to use the global marketplace. Another method could include having to complete a particular questline to gain access, available to characters after a certain point, perhaps level 15 or so. Without some sort of access limitation like this, this is a very real problem with a global model. While not mentioned, this extends to bugs and exploits which, in global market games, often result in the need for rollbacks or other drastic measures due to the rate at which they get out of control in a global market setting.

While this is and will always be a risk, I personally feel that the benefit and convenience of a global market system outweighs abuse of the system by a few individuals trying to monopolize a particular product. A global market needn't eliminate exclusive guild markets in which case the cited vulnerability above would be less significant.

Other Options:
Market Stalls - there's been a few suggestions on ways to implement this, but it usually ends up being a cluttered mess and impossible to find anything

Housing implementation/localised shops - I've seen this work particularly well in games where there is still a global 'search' ability or and a cash sink broker system to save you travelling to an individual's house. However, until houses or, at least guild halls, are implemented (and that's more 'if' than 'when' at this point), this isn't feasible.

The easiest option really would seem to me to be to implement a global search feature,make all guild shops public and searchable, but charge an additional fee to buy the item if you aren't a member of the guild. Guilds would be allowed to blacklist/ban particular customers from using their shop and/or set the shop to public or private. This would allow the best of both worlds - a large market, still compartmentalised with the ability for those who do not want their shops to be global and want to limit who can buy the items to people within the guild, to do so.

It would require a guild store to be able to list anything as it does now which would help to isolate 'bot guilds' and other such shenanigans.

The last thing I think I'll say on this subject is despite what I, or any of us here on the forums think, believe, or have opinions about - Zenimax did decide, for whatever reasons of their own, to not implement a global market. Whether this was due to a technical reason or a philosophical reason or whether they just wanted to experiment and see how the guild trading system would work, this is the choice that they made some time ago.

Therefore I do agree with the "No" voters that the burden is, absolutely, on the "yes" voters to provide sufficient reason to come up with a change.

Diakos · April 2014

No!

AH No.
Local markets sure, independent markets in each zone "capital" would be better IMO.

alphawolph · April 2014

Yes!

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Okay, here's my attempt at a compelling argument against an auction house:

A global auction house in Elder Scrolls Online, which was accessible to all players, would allow people to buy out any particular item. I'm going to use Turpen as an example, as it's the first item that comes to mind.

Let's say we have an auction house. And let's say that Turpen ranges anywhere from 500g each to 1500g each. Let's say there's a guy named Sellman. Sellman has about 3 Turpen, and he wants to know what the average price is. He asks in chat, and people say "Between 500g and 1500g". So, he decides that he wants to sell it in a good amount of time, so he lists his 3 Turpen for about 800g each.

And let's say a player, we'll call him Buyman, he has a decent handful of gold.

Buyman decides he's going to buy out as much of the Turpen as he can. He opens the global AH, and now he has access to every single Turpen listed for sale. So, he decides to buy out every Turpen that's listed, and reposts them all for 2000g each.

The next day, Sellman has 3 more Turpen. He asks "What's Turpen going for"? And people respond with "About 2000g". So, he wants to move his Turpen quickly, so he posts it for sale at 1900g each. Buyman sees this, buys out all his Turpen, and relists it for 2000g.

So, let's say I haven't logged in for a couple days. Last time I saw, Turpen was between 500g and 1500g. It still has the same "drop" rate, the rarity hasn't changed. It still does the same thing. I figure I'll log in, scrounge up 1k, and buy 2 Turpen. There should be a couple cheap ones on the AH, right? I want them for my crafting.

I go to the AH, and instead they're selling for 2000 each. In a brief amount of time, Turpen has increased in price, without increasing in rarity, nor increasing in demand.

Let's say a guy named Goldfarmer comes along. He decides he needs to make some gold. He has access to a global AH, so he knows he has access to all the Turpen being sold. He buys out all the Turpen at 2k each, and reposts them all for 4k each. Let's say his whole in-game life revolves around selling things, simply so he can make a lot of gold to "keep" (wink wink). So, he spends all day staring at the Auction House, buying out Turpen and keeping the price up. If crafters are in a situation where they'd like to purchase Turpen, it's no longer going for 500-1500g, it's now going for 4k.

Now, let's say Craftman, a blacksmith, sells swords. His usual selling price of a sword is 1000g plus the price of materials. Someone wants a blue-quality level 10 sword. Well, last week that sword's Turpen cost was as low as 2500g. Now, that sword's Turpen cost is 20,000g. 20,000g for a level 10 blue-quality sword.

So, the alternative (the system we have now):
We have guild stores. No one has 100% access to all the Turpen sold in-game. Some people overlap, and perhaps some people will still buy out items and resell them. But it won't ever be on a global scale. It doesn't completely prevent the possibility that a small handful of people could artificially cause inflation in the community, but it does mitigate it.

To accomplish the act of buying out any single product in the game, simply to relist it for profit, would require a large amount of footwork, micromanagement, and cooperation from a group of people.

So, that's my argument against a Global Auction House.

My very personal opinion, of which I have zero evidence, I believe my scenario is related to many proponents of an increase in bag size as well. It is my personal belief that many of the people asking for an auction house are also the players asking for a drastic increase in inventory/bank space. And I believe it's so they can participate in the scenario I listed above.

If someone could explain a way to wholly prevent massive buying/relisting of items on a global auction house, I would quickly change my opinion and be a supporter. As for now, that's the number 1 reason I do not want a global auction house in-game.

So instead of this, we can't find any Turpen to buy sell or trade because people just vendor everything. Way better.

Jeremy · April 2014

Yes!

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Okay, here's my attempt at a compelling argument against an auction house:

A global auction house in Elder Scrolls Online, which was accessible to all players, would allow people to buy out any particular item. I'm going to use Turpen as an example, as it's the first item that comes to mind.

Let's say we have an auction house. And let's say that Turpen ranges anywhere from 500g each to 1500g each. Let's say there's a guy named Sellman. Sellman has about 3 Turpen, and he wants to know what the average price is. He asks in chat, and people say "Between 500g and 1500g". So, he decides that he wants to sell it in a good amount of time, so he lists his 3 Turpen for about 800g each.

And let's say a player, we'll call him Buyman, he has a decent handful of gold.

Buyman decides he's going to buy out as much of the Turpen as he can. He opens the global AH, and now he has access to every single Turpen listed for sale. So, he decides to buy out every Turpen that's listed, and reposts them all for 2000g each.

The next day, Sellman has 3 more Turpen. He asks "What's Turpen going for"? And people respond with "About 2000g". So, he wants to move his Turpen quickly, so he posts it for sale at 1900g each. Buyman sees this, buys out all his Turpen, and relists it for 2000g.

So, let's say I haven't logged in for a couple days. Last time I saw, Turpen was between 500g and 1500g. It still has the same "drop" rate, the rarity hasn't changed. It still does the same thing. I figure I'll log in, scrounge up 1k, and buy 2 Turpen. There should be a couple cheap ones on the AH, right? I want them for my crafting.

I go to the AH, and instead they're selling for 2000 each. In a brief amount of time, Turpen has increased in price, without increasing in rarity, nor increasing in demand.

Let's say a guy named Goldfarmer comes along. He decides he needs to make some gold. He has access to a global AH, so he knows he has access to all the Turpen being sold. He buys out all the Turpen at 2k each, and reposts them all for 4k each. Let's say his whole in-game life revolves around selling things, simply so he can make a lot of gold to "keep" (wink wink). So, he spends all day staring at the Auction House, buying out Turpen and keeping the price up. If crafters are in a situation where they'd like to purchase Turpen, it's no longer going for 500-1500g, it's now going for 4k.

Now, let's say Craftman, a blacksmith, sells swords. His usual selling price of a sword is 1000g plus the price of materials. Someone wants a blue-quality level 10 sword. Well, last week that sword's Turpen cost was as low as 2500g. Now, that sword's Turpen cost is 20,000g. 20,000g for a level 10 blue-quality sword.

So, the alternative (the system we have now):
We have guild stores. No one has 100% access to all the Turpen sold in-game. Some people overlap, and perhaps some people will still buy out items and resell them. But it won't ever be on a global scale. It doesn't completely prevent the possibility that a small handful of people could artificially cause inflation in the community, but it does mitigate it.

To accomplish the act of buying out any single product in the game, simply to relist it for profit, would require a large amount of footwork, micromanagement, and cooperation from a group of people.

So, that's my argument against a Global Auction House.

My very personal opinion, of which I have zero evidence, I believe my scenario is related to many proponents of an increase in bag size as well. It is my personal belief that many of the people asking for an auction house are also the players asking for a drastic increase in inventory/bank space. And I believe it's so they can participate in the scenario I listed above.

If someone could explain a way to wholly prevent massive buying/relisting of items on a global auction house, I would quickly change my opinion and be a supporter. As for now, that's the number 1 reason I do not want a global auction house in-game.

Like Dyvim said, it's highly unlikely if not impossible to take control of a large/public market and manipulate it the way you describe unless they were able to dominate the means of production. Otherwise the likely outcome would be a small blip in the price history and probably a lot of out of pocket expense for the perpetrator.

There is a such a wide assortment of ways to obtain the rarer materials in demand on this game it would be impossible for anyone to singularly control their production. Not even a well-coordinated guild of gold farmers could pull it off. Not to mention anyone attempting a scam like you suggest would be well documented on the market boards and easily dealt with. Especially if it was systematic - which it would almost have to be to have any chance of having an effect.

So if this is your chief concern, I think it's time you got on the auction house bandwagon

Because the likelihood of something like this happening is close to zero.

Cures · April 2014

No!

auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO

Jeremy · April 2014

Yes!

Cures wrote: »

auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO

If anything makes crafting obsolete Cures, it's giving us an economy that makes it exceedingly difficult to get enough of the rarer materials you need to utilize said craft to begin with.

Which is why most people just hoard materials until they reach level 50. And the potential of crafting is never fully taken advantage of during a majority of the character's levels.

So if you really want to make crafting matter more, the best way to do it would be to give us a public marketplace capable of supplying these materials on a consistent basis (an auction house). That way crafting could be fully utilized through-out the character's life-span. And not just at level 50 due to a poor economy.

Sydänyö · April 2014

Cures wrote: »

auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO

Don't the existing guild stores make crafting obsolete, then?

Pr3ist · April 2014

Yes!

I'd like an auction house if for nothing else to be able to view the available items out there. Being that this game doesn't allow you to "examine" other players to see what gear they have. That was always how I knew what to shoot for in other MMOs, or what I wanted to research how to obtain.

And if there is a way to examine or check others, please let me know, I may just be ignorant as to how.

BrassRazoo · April 2014

No!

Not really, No.
I can get everything myself and have only ever sold one Motif Book, which I wanted to trade, and one Armour Item and I'm at V2.
If only to minimize people linking crap in Zone, then yes, if there is no other way to avoid that.
Linking stuff in Zone needs to be looked at, as it ends up being sort of spam.

Jeremy · April 2014

Yes!

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Not really, No.
I can get everything myself and have only ever sold one Motif Book, which I wanted to trade, and one Armour Item and I'm at V2.
If only to minimize people linking crap in Zone, then yes, if there is no other way to avoid that.
Linking stuff in Zone needs to be looked at, as it ends up being sort of spam.

This is why you don't care about having one though. Because you are content just getting everything yourself.

If you have no interests in participating in an economy that is fine. But I don't understand why you would want to deny those of us who do that luxury.

vyal · April 2014

No!

Leave the money-laundering HFT to the real world. It has no place in "entertainment".

Cures · April 2014

No!

sydanyoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Cures wrote: »

auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO

Don't the existing guild stores make crafting obsolete, then?

no - trading in a sample of 500 (or even 2k if in 4 trade guilds) is keeping the prices at least half reasonable. an AH would trivialize the best crafted gear in seconds. I for one would like oldschool asia-grinder market booths rather then any guild store ^^

For the first time since years we have an in-guild economy (without gold) where the products of guild members are actually not just littering up bank space, but are wanted by others. there is too much gold in the game anyway, so i dont even have a clue why anyone would NEED an AH fist of all.

BrassRazoo · April 2014

No!

Jeremy wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Not really, No.
I can get everything myself and have only ever sold one Motif Book, which I wanted to trade, and one Armour Item and I'm at V2.
If only to minimize people linking crap in Zone, then yes, if there is no other way to avoid that.
Linking stuff in Zone needs to be looked at, as it ends up being sort of spam.

This is why you don't care about having one though. Because you are content just getting everything yourself.

If you have no interests in participating in an economy that is fine. But I don't understand why you would want to deny those of us who do that luxury.

I'm sorry that's not really want I meant.
I associate Auction Houses with "End Game Gear". It's probably as I have limited experience in these types of games.
Auction Houses can encourage the coveting of items and monopolising of the best gear.
I can accept an Auction House to minimize Zone Spam as long as they don't modify content to make specific items exclusive to those capable of end game raid and keep Crafters an integral part of the Gear / Upgrading process.
End game raiders deserve good gear but it should not lock people out of the content or enable them to hold others hostage.
To add, I would like to be able to view a store or something to actually get a grip of what things are worth ... I have so much crap.

Jeremy · April 2014

Yes!

Cures wrote: »

sydanyoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Cures wrote: »

auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO

Don't the existing guild stores make crafting obsolete, then?

no - trading in a sample of 500 (or even 2k if in 4 trade guilds) is keeping the prices at least half reasonable.

But it doesn't.

Most of the stuff I see in guild stores are over-priced junk. And the items that actually do have real worth are obscenely priced.

For example: the few times I have seen Dwarf Oil up for sale it has been 500 gold a piece. Which is expensive, and not reasonable at all. And from the research I have done, this is the common price and wasn't an anomaly.

The best way to keep prices reasonable is to open up the market to the public so it can become more competitive. Limiting the size of a market and denying access is what actually raises prices and makes them more unreasonable.

So if more reasonable prices are a concern of yours, I think you should be supporting the implementation of an auction house.

Sydänyö · April 2014

Cures wrote: »

i dont even have a clue why anyone would NEED an AH fist of all.

What if they don't belong to a guild?

Cures · April 2014

No!

Jeremy wrote: »

Cures wrote: »

sydanyoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Cures wrote: »

auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO

Don't the existing guild stores make crafting obsolete, then?

no - trading in a sample of 500 (or even 2k if in 4 trade guilds) is keeping the prices at least half reasonable.

But it doesn't.

Most of the stuff I see in guild stores are over-priced junk. And the items that actually do have real worth are obscenely priced.

For example: the few times I have seen Dwarf Oil up for sale it has been 500 gold a piece. Which is expensive, and not reasonable at all. And from the research I have done, this is the common price and wasn't an anomaly.

The best way to keep prices reasonable is to open up the market to the public so it can become more competitive. Limiting the size of a market and denying access is what actually raises prices and makes them more unreasonable.

So if more reasonable prices are a concern of yours, I think you should be supporting the implementation of an auction house.

and i say 500 is far to cheap. you neoliberals just have no idea what things are worth - and no, its not the market that determines it

Jeremy · April 2014

Yes!

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Not really, No.
I can get everything myself and have only ever sold one Motif Book, which I wanted to trade, and one Armour Item and I'm at V2.
If only to minimize people linking crap in Zone, then yes, if there is no other way to avoid that.
Linking stuff in Zone needs to be looked at, as it ends up being sort of spam.

This is why you don't care about having one though. Because you are content just getting everything yourself.

If you have no interests in participating in an economy that is fine. But I don't understand why you would want to deny those of us who do that luxury.

I'm sorry that's not really want I meant.
I associate Auction Houses with "End Game Gear". It's probably as I have limited experience in these types of games.
Auction Houses can encourage the coveting of items and monopolising of the best gear.
I can accept an Auction House to minimize Zone Spam as long as they don't modify content to make specific items exclusive to those capable of end game raid and keep Crafters an integral part of the Gear / Upgrading process.
End game raiders deserve good gear but it should not lock people out of the content or enable them to hold others hostage.
To add, I would like to be able to view a store or something to actually get a grip of what things are worth ... I have so much crap.

The implementation of a public market would help stabilize the economy and allow for market based pricing. Then you would be able to get a grip on what things are worth.

So if you would like to be able to get a grip of what things are worth, I really do think you should lend your support toward a public auction house. Because it would allow you to do just that.

I am not sure I understand your concerns between Auction Houses and End Game Gear. Because an auction house should facilitate the crafting of more powerful gear. It wouldn't make it more difficult.

Reducing trade spam would be the icing on the cake for me. But that is just more of a nuisance. There are serious and fundamental problems with this game's economy that need to be addressed. And providing us with a competitive market that is open to the public would go a long way to fixing most of them.

Jeremy · April 2014

Yes!

Cures wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Cures wrote: »

sydanyoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Cures wrote: »

auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO

Don't the existing guild stores make crafting obsolete, then?

no - trading in a sample of 500 (or even 2k if in 4 trade guilds) is keeping the prices at least half reasonable.

But it doesn't.

Most of the stuff I see in guild stores are over-priced junk. And the items that actually do have real worth are obscenely priced.

For example: the few times I have seen Dwarf Oil up for sale it has been 500 gold a piece. Which is expensive, and not reasonable at all. And from the research I have done, this is the common price and wasn't an anomaly.

The best way to keep prices reasonable is to open up the market to the public so it can become more competitive. Limiting the size of a market and denying access is what actually raises prices and makes them more unreasonable.

So if more reasonable prices are a concern of yours, I think you should be supporting the implementation of an auction house.

and i say 500 is far to cheap. you neoliberals just have no idea what things are worth - and no, its not the market that determines it

lol, calling me a neoliberal is a stretch to be certain.

And 500 gold for a single dwarf oil is not far too cheap. It's ridiculous actually, which is why the price would instantly sail downward if it was put into a competitive market place that was worth a damn.

Though your post does lead credence to my suspicions that many of the anti-auction house people don't want a real economy because it would interfere with them ripping off desperate consumers

BrassRazoo · April 2014

No!

Jeremy wrote: »

The implementation of a public market would help stabilize the economy and allow for market based pricing. Then you would be able to get a grip on what things are worth.

So if you would like to be able to get a grip of what things are worth, I really do think you should lend your support toward a public auction house. Because it would allow you to do just that.

I am not sure I understand your concerns between Auction Houses and End Game Gear. Because an auction house should facilitate the crafting of more powerful gear. It wouldn't make it more difficult.

Reducing trade spam would be the icing on the cake for me. But that is just more of a nuisance. There are serious and fundamental problems with this game's economy that need to be addressed. And providing us with a competitive market that is open to the public would go a long way to fixing most of them.

You are opening my eyes with this sort of argument.
Like I said, I am biased from one bad experience and I guess I should not let it taint all.
I know I would have probably put things up for sale instead of deconstructing everything if there was an easier way, apart from joining a trade guild and spamming zone, to sell them.
It is definitely worth considering.
I hope they do come up with a novel way for people to sell their hard earned gear.

Jeremy · April 2014

Yes!

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

The implementation of a public market would help stabilize the economy and allow for market based pricing. Then you would be able to get a grip on what things are worth.

So if you would like to be able to get a grip of what things are worth, I really do think you should lend your support toward a public auction house. Because it would allow you to do just that.

I am not sure I understand your concerns between Auction Houses and End Game Gear. Because an auction house should facilitate the crafting of more powerful gear. It wouldn't make it more difficult.

Reducing trade spam would be the icing on the cake for me. But that is just more of a nuisance. There are serious and fundamental problems with this game's economy that need to be addressed. And providing us with a competitive market that is open to the public would go a long way to fixing most of them.

You are opening my eyes with this sort of argument.
Like I said, I am biased from one bad experience and I guess I should not let it taint all.
I know I would have probably put things up for sale instead of deconstructing everything if there was an easier way, apart from joining a trade guild and spamming zone, to sell them.
It is definitely worth considering.
I hope they do come up with a novel way for people to sell their hard earned gear.

This is good to hear

Because I would like to see this game succeed. And I think fixing it's economic woes would go a long way to ensuring that happens.

danreckerpreub18_ESO · April 2014

Yes!

Personally, I rather dislike the current system. I am in one semi PVP / PVE guild, and four trade guilds, the interface for guild stores is limited (Really? No searching? Looking for what I want is time consuming. I shouldnt have to repeat the search 5 times for each item, relogging several times to make the UI work, spamming /reloadui between each listing I attempt to make, etc etc etc.

I understand wanting to get away from a global economy for the reasons depicted in the buyman / sellman turpen fiasco outlined above, i've seen it more often then most. When standing in the bank spamming 'selling stuff x, wanting to buy stuff y!' is more efficient, cheaper, and less risky then listing something in the provided guild store, something is seriously wrong.

I am not selling my turpen, i'm not buying anyone else's. I am storing it for when I, personally, want to use it. I'll perhaps yell about wanting to sell an item when I find it, but that's about it. The current system isnt a system at all. Sorry shiny 2h axe I just found, I cant find out if anyone wants you or not. Pretty Robes of purpley goodness +42? Nope, no one in my immediate vicinity cared. Happy birthday to the ground.

When looking at the LISTING COST of a purple robe that appears to be worth around 2,000 gold gives me sticker shock...? Posting it in a guild store basically ensures that you will be loosing money. If no one sees it, no one can buy it... and you have now lost a significant % of that item's cost in listing fees. When trying to SELL things COSTS you money, why bother? I'll deconstruct it and make something I actually want to use later on.

Games like everquest that had thousands of people gradually evolved player economies over time. When EQ 1 released, the only other option was Ultima online, so naturally... most everyone that wanted to MMO migrated over. It took 2-3 years for each server to evolve it's own 'trade zones' ... they were laggy, awkward, and time consuming to use. Eventually, an official 'trade zone' was eventually setup, where you could park your character in a stall, set prices, and become a vendor. It was laggy to the point where you needed to crouch, stare at the ground, and navigate by map.

The auction house was the next logical step - and it worked, and worked WELL... for a time. As goldfarmers, goldsellers, and market dominating *** began sucking up all the economy's gold via buying / relisting higher, the Auction House's dark side became painfully evident. That said, the solution is NOT to fire an armor piercing nerf cannon into it's core function. The solution is to attempt to fix the problem - scrapping a functional system is avoiding it, effectively punishing everyone for the actions of a few profiteers.

Something as simple as a new form of temporary BOE would work wonders. If any item you purchase becomes bind-on-buy for a given period of time (Say... 3-6 days) Buying and relisting would become much less common. (Items could be traded to other players, just not listed in the auction house. This trait would transfer when traded, and would be clearly marked on the item tooltip when linked)

As I mentioned in another post, zone-specific pawn shops would work as well - items posted in Auridon, as an example, would tend to be low level, and would be accessible to everyone who wants to look. Letting guilds post their own storefront would be nice as well. Guilds that wanted to stay private could do so, and those that wanted to offer their goods publicly could do so as well - the best of both worlds.
The current system is an elimination of player driven economy, not an enhancement. Something needs to change.