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Auction House
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Brennan✭✭✭No!I have the impression that voices against an auction house are TES players not MMO players who seldom played pay-to-play MMOs, or maybe just free-to-plays, where the publisher can do what he likes to.
Or maybe they're both. You know, people that have played the Elder Scrolls series on their console and also had a Holy Paladin in WoW or a Caldari in Eve Online.
I have the impression that voices for an auction house knowingly purchased a game without an auction house (the absence of this mechanic was widely publicized) and are now upset that the game they purchased does not have an Auction House.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Anyone who did any research of this title before purchasing had to have known that this feature was not being included. Yet people still purchased the game. My question to you is:
If you knew that the game was being released without an auction house, why did you purchase the game and then come here to complain about the absence of an Auction House?
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Yes!I would love an AH get rid of those stupid ass people who are spamming /zone chat with WTS. Also would help the people who are looking to roleplay a crafter I thinkYour Local Scottish Lets Player Here To Conquer All For The Pact. Also
You All 5 -
No!IdioticUlt1mara wrote: »I would love an AH get rid of those stupid ass people who are spamming /zone chat with WTS. Also would help the people who are looking to roleplay a crafter I think
AH surely support RP players. That is the best joke I heard for some time :-)
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alphawolph✭✭✭Yes!As @LadyInTheWater, has stated neither those for or against an Auction House have really put forth a compelling reason to support their side in this debate. Unfortunately for those advocating for a global Auction House, the status quo does not include such a thing and you've still not provided a compelling enough reason to make this a reality other than, "Games too hard for me to play without a global Auction House".
I want one is just as compelling as you don't want one. I've yet to hear a good reason for not having one.
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alphawolph✭✭✭Yes!
I have the impression that voices for an auction house knowingly purchased a game without an auction house (the absence of this mechanic was widely publicized) and are now upset that the game they purchased does not have an Auction House.
Anyone who did any research of this title before purchasing had to have known that this feature was not being included. Yet people still purchased the game. My question to you is:
If you knew that the game was being released without an auction house, why did you purchase the game and then come here to complain about the absence of an Auction House?
You saying this over and over is still the only place i've seen this said. So, No, i didn't buy this game knowing it. And, I would probably not have bought it.
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Shimizu✭✭Yes!I find that the guild store system, while interesting and a good idea in theory, doesn't work so well in practice. To maximize potential sales transactions it seems guilds try to be 'as big as possible' so no, you aren't buying and selling with the people you know, you're buying and selling with 800 strangers and the guild chat is rarely used.
The game itself discourages you from having a small, tight-knit guild of friends who freely share items in the guild bank by imposing "membership requirements" to unlock the bank and store. If you're in a guild with 800 members, I doubt you're going to put your 'spare' stuff in the bank for anyone to take. Particularly when the membership requirement for most of these guilds is being able to find the notification box and press accept.
Both of the above make the game very "unsocial" for me, in that I'm not actually meeting/roleplaying/talking to any of these people nor they to me.
Yes, its nice that you don't need a 'group' to be able to complete quests with other players in the same areas, but despite my efforts to engage in conversation 99% of the time everyone stands around, kills target, wanders off, and never are we to meet again. I've done entire dungeon runs with people in which nobody ever spoke despite trying to engage them in conversation.
The zone chat is almost completely full of WTB/WTS with no meaningful conversation, due in large part to the absence of a global market combined with the fees to list things in the guild store (to be viewed by a limited market, in a system with NO search feature, resulting in few people bothering.) It makes more sense to spam chat. The game mechanics in fact encourage it.
I don't care about an 'auction house'. I see no need to have auctions whatsoever. A global (fixed-price) market, searchable by category, would alleviate many of the game's current issues.5 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!alphawolph wrote: »As @LadyInTheWater, has stated neither those for or against an Auction House have really put forth a compelling reason to support their side in this debate. Unfortunately for those advocating for a global Auction House, the status quo does not include such a thing and you've still not provided a compelling enough reason to make this a reality other than, "Games too hard for me to play without a global Auction House".
I want one is just as compelling as you don't want one. I've yet to hear a good reason for not having one.
The compelling reason for not having one is because this game doesn't have one. It is the status quo. It is the norm. The status quo, the norm for society is to wear clothes in public. If you don't want to wear pants it's up to you to make a compelling argument as to why the status quo needs to be changed. It is not up to the people wearing pants to give you a compelling argument to wear pants.2 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!alphawolph wrote: »
I have the impression that voices for an auction house knowingly purchased a game without an auction house (the absence of this mechanic was widely publicized) and are now upset that the game they purchased does not have an Auction House.
Anyone who did any research of this title before purchasing had to have known that this feature was not being included. Yet people still purchased the game. My question to you is:
If you knew that the game was being released without an auction house, why did you purchase the game and then come here to complain about the absence of an Auction House?
You saying this over and over is still the only place i've seen this said. So, No, i didn't buy this game knowing it. And, I would probably not have bought it.
It's unfortunate that you didn't do a lot of research before dropping your $60-80. But not a compelling reason for changing the game.
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Brennan✭✭✭No!I find that the guild store system, while interesting and a good idea in theory, doesn't work so well in practice. To maximize potential sales transactions it seems guilds try to be 'as big as possible' so no, you aren't buying and selling with the people you know, you're buying and selling with 800 strangers and the guild chat is rarely used.***
As opposed to buying and selling with 10,000 strangers. Systems are not social or not social. People are social or not social.2 -
alphawolph✭✭✭Yes!alphawolph wrote: »As @LadyInTheWater, has stated neither those for or against an Auction House have really put forth a compelling reason to support their side in this debate. Unfortunately for those advocating for a global Auction House, the status quo does not include such a thing and you've still not provided a compelling enough reason to make this a reality other than, "Games too hard for me to play without a global Auction House".
I want one is just as compelling as you don't want one. I've yet to hear a good reason for not having one.
The compelling reason for not having one is because this game doesn't have one. It is the status quo. It is the norm. The status quo, the norm for society is to wear clothes in public. If you don't want to wear pants it's up to you to make a compelling argument as to why the status quo needs to be changed. It is not up to the people wearing pants to give you a compelling argument to wear pants.
It is definitely not the norm for MMOs.1 -
alphawolph✭✭✭Yes!alphawolph wrote: »
I have the impression that voices for an auction house knowingly purchased a game without an auction house (the absence of this mechanic was widely publicized) and are now upset that the game they purchased does not have an Auction House.
Anyone who did any research of this title before purchasing had to have known that this feature was not being included. Yet people still purchased the game. My question to you is:
If you knew that the game was being released without an auction house, why did you purchase the game and then come here to complain about the absence of an Auction House?
You saying this over and over is still the only place i've seen this said. So, No, i didn't buy this game knowing it. And, I would probably not have bought it.
It's unfortunate that you didn't do a lot of research before dropping your $60-80. But not a compelling reason for changing the game.
Meh, I liked skyrim.2 -
elvigy01✭✭Yes!I voted yes, but I'd be happy with anything that's better than what we currently have. Even if it was a separate market per major city in each region.
The guild thing is just not working for me. I like small, friendly guilds but those are no good for selling. So I have to join some mega trade guild just to sell stuff or find what I need. That makes me sad. Plus, lately, the trade guild I was in seems to be dying out so now I have to find another one.4 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No!
This may very well be true of me. I'm a TES player, and I've seen a F2P game implement an AH poorly.I have the impression that voices against an auction house are TES players not MMO players who seldom played pay-to-play MMOs, or maybe just free-to-plays, where the publisher can do what he likes to.
I don't know, maybe WoW and Eve have some magical AH without the usual problems. But I think the yes voters are voting with their hearts for some ideal system that will never exist.
If you can all be realistic for a second, imagine the guild store interface now, only global. That would be your AH. None of the extra perks you're asking for. Now instead of having a marginalized or speculative effect on the economy, picture all the item dupes and gold farming having an instantaneous effect on the entire market.
That's what I'm voting no against. However bad you think exploits made the economy, an AH will make it that much worse.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●4 -
Pyatra✭✭✭No!Join a couple guilds, there are even guilds that specialize in trading and crafting.4
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Yes!We do not NEED an "Auction house" as it exists in WoW, but the current system is awkward, and discourages playing with others. I personally am in 5 450+ member guilds, all of whom basically ignore one another, save for a few text auctions here and there. (There are exceptions to this, but i've seen about half a dozen since early access came up.)
Mostly, all guild stores do, in their current state, is make you search for the same thing 5 times, while ignoring the majority of the player base.
The primary focus of almost all guilds i've seen thus far is buying and selling, which encourages an adversarial environment. (Sellers want more, buyers want things for less. ) Which leads to arguments in guildchat, and endless amounts of spam (Or an amazing attention span, along with the ability to speed read with one's peripheral vision.) Again, exceptions exist, but this appears to be the normal thus far.
An easy idea to implement:
Pawn Shops - put one of these in each town, whichever town is the biggest in a given zone. Having one Pawn Shop in Auridon, only accessible in Auridon ... Most items here would naturally be of the appropriate level range. Convenient, and cuts down on spam. Put a tight limit on the amount of things you can sell at once (10, perhaps) per zone, and have them stay up for a lesser duration. (1 week at an upper limit seems nice, with the option to pay less of a listing fee for lower durations)
Harder Idea
Guild Islands. Let a guild purchase a small island with a guildhall, perhaps accessible via portal, which would take you to an instanced island in Oblivion, or somewhere off the coastline of major landmasses. Purchase cost would be high, upkeep would exist, but be manageable (Perhaps allow guild dues to be managed by the guild leader. Even 10 gold a day per member would add up fast, limit dues to days the player logs on.)
Within permission limitations, allow anyone to visit that guild's instance, and access a vendor that lets them access a guild store. Guilds that want to remain internal would be able to do so, while those that want to offer goods to a larger market would be able to as well.
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Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!alphawolph wrote: »As @LadyInTheWater, has stated neither those for or against an Auction House have really put forth a compelling reason to support their side in this debate. Unfortunately for those advocating for a global Auction House, the status quo does not include such a thing and you've still not provided a compelling enough reason to make this a reality other than, "Games too hard for me to play without a global Auction House".
I want one is just as compelling as you don't want one. I've yet to hear a good reason for not having one.
The compelling reason for not having one is because this game doesn't have one. It is the status quo. It is the norm. The status quo, the norm for society is to wear clothes in public. If you don't want to wear pants it's up to you to make a compelling argument as to why the status quo needs to be changed. It is not up to the people wearing pants to give you a compelling argument to wear pants.
Any status quo argument in MMO land is patently ridiculous...why? Because one of the primary features of an MMO IS CHANGE. CHANGE OVER TIME. Why? Because developers seek to improve their game over time, and seek to maintain income by maintaining subscribers with new features and new content. Are you sure you have played an MMO before, because it doesnt sound like it. MMOs are not some steady state product.
Ah and here we have another inappropriate analogy. Here is a better one, since you want to talk about pants. FASHION changes continuously in order to have new styles to sell year after year to get peoples money. An oversimplification, but basically true. JUST like with MMOs, the status quo, or steady state existence, is NOT the basic nature of the MMO industry OR the fashion industry...got it?
Angels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.2 -
RomedyMC✭✭✭No!It is the status quo.
The status quo,
the norm for society
Any status quo argument
the status quo,
This is the best description of "status quo" I have ever heard:
An experimenter once put 5 monkeys, labeled 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, into a cage with a ladder, and at the top of a ladder was a bunch of bananas. Whenever a monkey went to climb the ladder to get a banana, all of the monkeys remaining on the floor were sprayed with cold water.
After this cycle repeated a few times, the monkeys began to beat up any monkey that attempted to climb the ladder. Once this behavior was solidly in place, monkey #1 was removed and replaced with monkey #6. Now obviously, monkey #6 saw the bananas and started to climb the ladder, only to get beat up. After a few attempts, he stopped trying to climb the ladder.
So monkey #2 was replaced with monkey @7, and the same cycle started again. This happened with monkey #8, #9, and finally monkey #10 was introduced to the cage. He imemdiately saw the bananas and started climbing the ladder, only to get beat up.
Beat up by 4 monkeys that had absolutely no idea why they were beating up monkey #10, except for that it was the way it had always been done.
I'll save you the moral and just let you and Brennan get back to your lovefest.
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Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!@RomedyMC lol...I'm not the status quo proponent or the one using it as a rationale for opposing change...please don't assign text to me that I did not type. Thx.Angels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.0
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RomedyMC✭✭✭No!But, you did type that text. All of it. Right here in fact:Any status quo argument in MMO land is patently ridiculous...why? Because one of the primary features of an MMO IS CHANGE. CHANGE OVER TIME. Why? Because developers seek to improve their game over time, and seek to maintain income by maintaining subscribers with new features and new content. Are you sure you have played an MMO before, because it doesnt sound like it. MMOs are not some steady state product.
Ah and here we have another inappropriate analogy. Here is a better one, since you want to talk about pants. FASHION changes continuously in order to have new styles to sell year after year to get peoples money. An oversimplification, but basically true. JUST like with MMOs, the status quo, or steady state existence, is NOT the basic nature of the MMO industry OR the fashion industry...got it?
Notice I didn't say you were on one side or the other, I just provided a little story.
Edited by RomedyMC on April 24, 2014 9:38PM1 -
Terroni✭Yes!It is too much hassle for me to bother selling my items so I either place purples in my guilds bank or vend the items. It's also too much hassle for me to buy from other players, so I don't.
Having to join 4 other guilds and search through a terrible UI for the small possibility of finding something I could use is an awful idea.
Despite people saying a global AH would ruin the econmy, I would disagree and say a poorly implemented global AH would the economy. While GW2 had issue, I'm sure they can be learned from and remedied. (such as making an auction item's minimum listing price be at least X% more than vendor price, or something similar)5 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!alphawolph wrote: »As @LadyInTheWater, has stated neither those for or against an Auction House have really put forth a compelling reason to support their side in this debate. Unfortunately for those advocating for a global Auction House, the status quo does not include such a thing and you've still not provided a compelling enough reason to make this a reality other than, "Games too hard for me to play without a global Auction House".
I want one is just as compelling as you don't want one. I've yet to hear a good reason for not having one.
The compelling reason for not having one is because this game doesn't have one. It is the status quo. It is the norm. The status quo, the norm for society is to wear clothes in public. If you don't want to wear pants it's up to you to make a compelling argument as to why the status quo needs to be changed. It is not up to the people wearing pants to give you a compelling argument to wear pants.
Any status quo argument in MMO land is patently ridiculous...why? Because one of the primary features of an MMO IS CHANGE. CHANGE OVER TIME.
I completely agree but I don't think it a good idea to change things without good reason. So tell me, where is the compelling argument for this change?
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linkdrivegamingSoul ShrivenYes!The current system seriously needs to be changed, AH or not. IMO, any large scale MMO with an established economy needs an auction house of some sort. Relying on something as flimsy as a guild store to drive economics is pitiful at best.2
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Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!But, you did type that text. All of it. Right here in fact:Any status quo argument in MMO land is patently ridiculous...why? Because one of the primary features of an MMO IS CHANGE. CHANGE OVER TIME. Why? Because developers seek to improve their game over time, and seek to maintain income by maintaining subscribers with new features and new content. Are you sure you have played an MMO before, because it doesnt sound like it. MMOs are not some steady state product.
Ah and here we have another inappropriate analogy. Here is a better one, since you want to talk about pants. FASHION changes continuously in order to have new styles to sell year after year to get peoples money. An oversimplification, but basically true. JUST like with MMOs, the status quo, or steady state existence, is NOT the basic nature of the MMO industry OR the fashion industry...got it?
Notice I didn't say you were on one side or the other, I just provided a little story.
Ok, then please don't deceptively edit what I type, how is that, or do we need to dive into more semantics? btw I liked the story, hadn't heard that version of it before.Edited by Dyvim on April 24, 2014 11:59PMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.1 -
Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!alphawolph wrote: »As @LadyInTheWater, has stated neither those for or against an Auction House have really put forth a compelling reason to support their side in this debate. Unfortunately for those advocating for a global Auction House, the status quo does not include such a thing and you've still not provided a compelling enough reason to make this a reality other than, "Games too hard for me to play without a global Auction House".
I want one is just as compelling as you don't want one. I've yet to hear a good reason for not having one.
The compelling reason for not having one is because this game doesn't have one. It is the status quo. It is the norm. The status quo, the norm for society is to wear clothes in public. If you don't want to wear pants it's up to you to make a compelling argument as to why the status quo needs to be changed. It is not up to the people wearing pants to give you a compelling argument to wear pants.
Any status quo argument in MMO land is patently ridiculous...why? Because one of the primary features of an MMO IS CHANGE. CHANGE OVER TIME.
I completely agree but I don't think it a good idea to change things without good reason. So tell me, where is the compelling argument for this change?
If you completely agree, then why did you utter a status quo based argument, if you now agree its BS???
I've typed it, you just wont read it...
1) Competitive products have it, and other players, like the ones here asking for one, have played with the feature and liked it. This product, ESO, is not alone or in a vacuum. AH's are pretty much standard in themepark mmos, pretty much for 11 years now, especially large AAA ones.
2) What we have now is many many small markets with the guild store system. Any economist will tell you that small markets are generally less efficient with their supply/demand/price curves than larger markets. The more sellers and buyers you bring together, the more rationale and efficient the curves will be.
3) Zeni is the one producing a product in a competitive market against other products with other features. THE BURDEN IS ON THEM to provide a feature rich product that is competitive with the features customers have grown to expect...especially QoL features...as THEY are the ones asking for OUR MONEY. The burden it NOT on the customers that want the feature that is now more or less an industry standard, and EXPECTED. The burden is on them to explain why they haven't delivered on it. They have not done it, but its probably because of tech difficulty with the megaservers.Angels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.1 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!alphawolph wrote: »As @LadyInTheWater, has stated neither those for or against an Auction House have really put forth a compelling reason to support their side in this debate. Unfortunately for those advocating for a global Auction House, the status quo does not include such a thing and you've still not provided a compelling enough reason to make this a reality other than, "Games too hard for me to play without a global Auction House".
I want one is just as compelling as you don't want one. I've yet to hear a good reason for not having one.
The compelling reason for not having one is because this game doesn't have one. It is the status quo. It is the norm. The status quo, the norm for society is to wear clothes in public. If you don't want to wear pants it's up to you to make a compelling argument as to why the status quo needs to be changed. It is not up to the people wearing pants to give you a compelling argument to wear pants.
Any status quo argument in MMO land is patently ridiculous...why? Because one of the primary features of an MMO IS CHANGE. CHANGE OVER TIME.
I completely agree but I don't think it a good idea to change things without good reason. So tell me, where is the compelling argument for this change?
If you completely agree, then why did you utter a status quo based argument, if you now agree its BS???
I've typed it, you just wont read it...
1) Competitive products have it, and other players, like the ones here asking for one, have played with the feature and liked it. This product, ESO, is not alone or in a vacuum. AH's are pretty much standard in themepark mmos, pretty much for 11 years now, especially large AAA ones.
2) What we have now is many many small markets with the guild store system. Any economist will tell you that small markets are generally less efficient with their supply/demand/price curves than larger markets. The more sellers and buyers you bring together, the more rationale and efficient the curves will be.
3) Zeni is the one producing a product in a competitive market against other products with other features. THE BURDEN IS ON THEM to provide a feature rich product that is competitive with the features customers have grown to expect...especially QoL features...as THEY are the ones asking for OUR MONEY. The burden it NOT on the customers that want the feature that is now more or less an industry standard, and EXPECTED. The burden is on them to explain why they haven't delivered on it. They have not done it, but its probably because of tech difficulty with the megaservers.
I have already told youBrennan wrote:Dyvim wrote: »
because they have used it and appreciated it in other MMOs,
Dyvim wrote:
...features that players expect from a AAA MMO, that other competing products have...
This is a prime example of what is not a compelling argument.
Every position you seem to take @Dyvim revolves around this same point. Whether it's the inventory or the auction house.
This game must have X because this game has X.
This MMO is different and neither an Auction House nor a frictionless inventory system are in any way an absolute requirement or necessity for any MMO.
It's too hard because it's too different. It breaks the mold. I am not going to speculate on the reasoning behind it given the megaserver environment.
If an Auction House is an absolute necessity for any MMO to survive then that assumes that no MMO ever will be without an Auction House - EVER. We could just change the genre to Auction House Online because this, above all else, is what defines the genre by reason that it is used in every other MMO and it's what players expect.
Welcome to the world of next-gen Auction House Online - or Next-Gen AHOLs.
This game must X because this game has X is not a compelling argument.
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Brennan✭✭✭No!I want to propose a possible compromise - just to get a feel for what people think.
As things stand currently, all Guild Stores have sell orders but no way to advertise the stuff you want to buy. What if there was both a sell and a buy option?
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Jadeviper1974✭✭✭No!The only folks that want an AH are the same ones that like to help break the economy.What is written above are my honest opinions. If you agree then; "Great!" If you disagree; "Great!" I really couldn't care less either way.1
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Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!...
This game must X because this game has X is not a compelling argument.
Anyone in the business world who constantly evaluates their competitors products and spends time keeping their own product competitive with robust feature sets that will attract and keep consumers, would fall out of their chair laughing at your statement. Of COURSE the competition is always compelling...ALWAYS...and relevant. This argument of yours is as ridiculous and unsupportable as your status quo argument, which you also abandoned. I say that without malice...it really is the way things are, though. You need to think about it and I think you will come around. Companies are continuously doing market research, competitive product comparisons, and in some cases corporate espionage, all in order to gain or maintain competitive advantages with their products or services. That is the way things work, and a product's competition is never irrelevant - to include its features. So yes, actually...saying that ESO needs a feature because it has become more or less standard in the MMO space, and is liked and expected by many players, is ONE OF THE MORE compelling arguments you could POSSIBLY have.
We have a fundamental disagreement about what products, competition, and a marketplace mean. You're on the wrong side of economics and basic business theory, my friend. Again, ESO is NOT in a vacuum, it is not some special product that its developers believe is immune to competition from other MMOs...its players are not in a vacuum, with no exposure to other games and other ideas. Think about that...
Also, you need to respond to my previous post and think about these related issues...especially #2, as no one has even come close to overriding the basic economic argument as to why large markets are better...they are.
1) Competitive products have it, and other players, like the ones here asking for one, have played with the feature and liked it. This product, ESO, is not alone or in a vacuum. AH's are pretty much standard in themepark mmos, pretty much for 11 years now, especially large AAA ones.
2) What we have now is many many small markets with the guild store system. Any economist will tell you that small markets are generally less efficient with their supply/demand/price curves than larger markets. The more sellers and buyers you bring together, the more rationale and efficient the curves will be.
3) Zeni is the one producing a product in a competitive market against other products with other features. THE BURDEN IS ON THEM to provide a feature rich product that is competitive with the features customers have grown to expect...especially QoL features...as THEY are the ones asking for OUR MONEY. The burden it NOT on the customers that want the feature that is now more or less an industry standard, and EXPECTED. The burden is on them to explain why they haven't delivered on it. They have not done it, but its probably because of tech difficulty with the megaservers.Edited by Dyvim on April 25, 2014 4:11AMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.3
