How can i hide my stuff for the Group-Loot Add-On

Matchimus · March 2021

Thanks for thread. Players using addon do so to gain an advantage over players who do not. They will now pay handsomely for that advantage or I link item in chat and give it away or sell to merchant.

Elsonso · March 2021

Matchimus wrote: »

Thanks for thread. Players using addon do so to gain an advantage over players who do not. They will now pay handsomely for that advantage or I link item in chat and give it away or sell to merchant.

They can run that add-on too, you know.

Decimus · March 2021

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

SilverBride · March 2021

Daemonai wrote: »

Entitlement is probably the most overused and misused word of the past few years

It's actually the most accurate. I have never seen the degree of entitlement as I have the past few years, and I am not just talking about in game.

But the bottom line is it is rude to beg for someone else's drops, and intrusive to actually install an addon that helps you do this.

Luckily I have absolutely no problem saying no.

KalyanLazair · March 2021

Messed up the post, don't want to write it again, so suffice to say we will agree to disagree.

jaws343 · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

That's patently not true. Because this doesn't happen on console. People post up what they are looking for at the start of the dungeon and then when the dungeon is finished people link in chat and trade what they are willing to. And then everyone goes their separate way without spying on other people's drops.

AuraoftheAzureSea · March 2021

From what I recall (it's been a while since I've played), most of the issues I witnessed from the addon were anxiety related.

For those of us comfortable saying no and standing our ground, it seems so simple to just say "No, sorry, I need it." and leave it at that. For others, it turns into this anxiety provoking issue for the quite possibly the whole dungeon run, where someone might sit there and think, "If I say no, are they going to get mad at me? Are they going to start begging me or starting a confrontation? Do they need it more than me - I was saving it for an alt but what if they start saying they've been searching for it for 50 dungeons straight, does it make me selfish to keep it for myself when I wasn't really even farming for it?"

It's easy to say, "That's a personal issue you're just going to have to get over. Just block them or ignore them if they bother you more." But it can get even trickier if you tend to run in a group or with guild. Suddenly it's a lot more obvious when people need drops and there is a level of social expectation there that makes some players really hesitant to set boundaries.

It's also tempting to go, "If you don't like it, then don't play! It's how the game works." Except they already did choose to play a game with private drops, and maybe it was for that very reason. I know one of the reasons I stopped playing FFXIV years and years ago was because I didn't like the shared loot mechanic. It felt not good to see something you were looking forward to and not get it because it went to someone else, and it feels even worse to have friends get mad at you (or know that they're disappointed) because you won an item.

I personally preferred it when someone said up front that they were looking for an item and then repeated it again at the end of the dungeon. Yes, when I did that, there is always the chance that I missed a drop from someone who wasn't paying attention. But I would rather miss out every once in a while than potentially cause unneeded anxiety and discomfort to people who really didn't want to be bothered and maybe didn't speak up because they did want that item for themselves.

And as a side note, I personally feel way worse when an item I am farming for drops and it goes to someone else who didn't want to trade it than if I just thought it never dropped at all that round. Ignorance is bliss etc. etc. Feels a lot less "I WAS THIS CLOSE AAGH!"

KalyanLazair · March 2021

To continue with the discussion, I do see the usefulness in the addon itself, which is why I believe a compromise could be reached if a similar addon was created, yet if the way it worked is by broadcasting the loot only if the user wants to do so. That would allow users who don't want to broadcast their loot to not use it, or maybe use it only with the people they want to, such as me and my friend. I would definitely use that addon since I don't mind him peeking at my stuff. We've got the boundaries clear, and if we're hunting for collection it's first catch, first get. We spare if we already have it, and we will make an exception if someone is looking for a specific set. We work well that way so for me it's not a big deal.

However, in dungeons with random people I will always post the stuff I'm willing to trade at the end. If I don't post it on the chat there is a reason for that. In my opinion this is the best approach for me because everything is crystal clear. No unnecessary stress for anyone. I got this, anyone wants it? Yes? No?

I'm that type of player, the one that opens every container. I'm still baffled by people randomly asking me if I could give away a furnishing blueprint I just happened to find, or a recipe, or some other similar item. I would guess the addon must work funny when I'm around, however, if it's showing every grape and potato I loot.

Flamebait · March 2021

I am sorry if you have so much trouble that you cannot stand a person you don't know whispering you, but that is entirely on you and not the game designers or other players. There are many days when I don't feel like being sociable, but that does not meant he entire world has to be sure to avoid talking to me to spare my feelings, rather that I have to avoid situations I don't want to be in. This discussion has gone from being about whether it is right to use an addon that ZOS is fully aware of, and has been for years, to how people might feel scared of having to deal with other people. The latter is no place for ZOS to involve themselves anyways, try a therapist if it's of concern to you, or don't it's your choice. As I said I don't use this addon but I also don't have group chat on so if something drops that someone might want they can whisper me or when the run is over and I port back to a city it's just gonna be deconstructed.

P.S. Even if group chat was on I wouldn't remember what someone else was looking for by the end of a dungeon and if you asked after every boss then I would have you on ignore before the end of the dungeon anyways.

AuraoftheAzureSea · March 2021

Flamebait wrote: »

I am sorry if you have so much trouble that you cannot stand a person you don't know whispering you, but that is entirely on you and not the game designers or other players. There are many days when I don't feel like being sociable, but that does not meant he entire world has to be sure to avoid talking to me to spare my feelings, rather that I have to avoid situations I don't want to be in. This discussion has gone from being about whether it is right to use an addon that ZOS is fully aware of, and has been for years, to how people might feel scared of having to deal with other people. The latter is no place for ZOS to involve themselves anyways, try a therapist if it's of concern to you, or don't it's your choice. As I said I don't use this addon but I also don't have group chat on so if something drops that someone might want they can whisper me or when the run is over and I port back to a city it's just gonna be deconstructed.

P.S. Even if group chat was on I wouldn't remember what someone else was looking for by the end of a dungeon and if you asked after every boss then I would have you on ignore before the end of the dungeon anyways.

There are two issues being discussed, as you stated. One is about whether or not it is acceptable or "legal" to use the addon, and the other is about whether or not it is good practice to use the addon.

The first is very simple. Addons are allowed and ZoS hasn't banned it, so obviously the answer ies "yes, it's perfectly allowed."

To the second point, discussing whether or not the addon is a good practice is not the same thing as calling it "right." If you've ever ran into places like r/AITA on the wild west of the web, you're probably aware that there's a huge difference between being justified in doing something because it's technically allowed and being a considerate human being.

I am not arguing that the addon shouldn't be allowed, or that you're a bad person for choosing to use it. I am simply saying that I personally chose not to use it because I believed that it was intrusive and made a not insignificant portion of the players I interacted with uncomfortable, and I decided I would rather not contribute to that when I didn't have to.

Mojmir · March 2021

Flamebait wrote: »

I am sorry if you have so much trouble that you cannot stand a person you don't know whispering you, but that is entirely on you and not the game designers or other players. There are many days when I don't feel like being sociable, but that does not meant he entire world has to be sure to avoid talking to me to spare my feelings, rather that I have to avoid situations I don't want to be in. This discussion has gone from being about whether it is right to use an addon that ZOS is fully aware of, and has been for years, to how people might feel scared of having to deal with other people. The latter is no place for ZOS to involve themselves anyways, try a therapist if it's of concern to you, or don't it's your choice. As I said I don't use this addon but I also don't have group chat on so if something drops that someone might want they can whisper me or when the run is over and I port back to a city it's just gonna be deconstructed.

P.S. Even if group chat was on I wouldn't remember what someone else was looking for by the end of a dungeon and if you asked after every boss then I would have you on ignore before the end of the dungeon anyways.

This can sum up alot of posts on the forums.

renne · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

Uhhh you know this addon isn't compulsory, right?

Because this does not happen today, this very day, with people who are collecting gear who don't have the addon (or are on console). For a lot of us this addon literally does not exist, and collectors don't ask what dropped after every boss and kick people who refuse to link, nor is there "drama" or "instrusiveness". Honestly, it's kind of awkward the way you're acting like the addon is part of the base game when it isn't.

Decimus · March 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

That's patently not true. Because this doesn't happen on console. People post up what they are looking for at the start of the dungeon and then when the dungeon is finished people link in chat and trade what they are willing to. And then everyone goes their separate way without spying on other people's drops.

People on console probably aren't used to seeing loot via addons.

All I can say is that if addons didn't exist & someone refused to link what dropped I'd kick them from group and probably add them on ignore so I wouldn't have them wasting potential RNG in the future.

This is mostly a non-issue though as I play with people I know, but every now and then when someone from the fixed group isn't available you do run into the "mute pug" whom you have to gently remove from group as they ignore your whispers after they get an item you need - even a "no sorry, I need this Toothrow Inferno Staff even though I miss 60 items from this dungeon and you miss one" would suffice but no, just silence.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but you wouldn't believe how often something like this happens when pugging (main reason I personally try to avoid that as much as possible).

In the end it is a MMO and you're supposed to interact with people in MMOs - most of them actually have group loot and need/greed rolls even, and the ones with personal loot tend to display who got what (look at World of Warcraft for instance, which got their version of personal loot in Mists of Pandaria).

In fact, seeing who gets what loot should be a base game feature and not something you need an addon for.

AuraoftheAzureSea · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

That's patently not true. Because this doesn't happen on console. People post up what they are looking for at the start of the dungeon and then when the dungeon is finished people link in chat and trade what they are willing to. And then everyone goes their separate way without spying on other people's drops.

People on console probably aren't used to seeing loot via addons.

All I can say is that if addons didn't exist & someone refused to link what dropped I'd kick them from group and probably add them on ignore so I wouldn't have them wasting potential RNG in the future.

This is mostly a non-issue though as I play with people I know, but every now and then when someone from the fixed group isn't available you do run into the "mute pug" whom you have to gently remove from group as they ignore your whispers after they get an item you need - even a "no sorry, I need this Toothrow Inferno Staff even though I miss 60 items from this dungeon and you miss one" would suffice but no, just silence.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but you wouldn't believe how often something like this happens when pugging (main reason I personally try to avoid that as much as possible).

In the end it is a MMO and you're supposed to interact with people in MMOs - most of them actually have group loot and need/greed rolls even, and the ones with personal loot tend to display who got what (look at World of Warcraft for instance, which got their version of personal loot in Mists of Pandaria).

In fact, seeing who gets what loot should be a base game feature and not something you need an addon for.

Wow. Suddenly, the earlier discussion about entitlement seems a lot more relevant to this thread.

KalyanLazair · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

That's patently not true. Because this doesn't happen on console. People post up what they are looking for at the start of the dungeon and then when the dungeon is finished people link in chat and trade what they are willing to. And then everyone goes their separate way without spying on other people's drops.

People on console probably aren't used to seeing loot via addons.

All I can say is that if addons didn't exist & someone refused to link what dropped I'd kick them from group and probably add them on ignore so I wouldn't have them wasting potential RNG in the future.

This is mostly a non-issue though as I play with people I know, but every now and then when someone from the fixed group isn't available you do run into the "mute pug" whom you have to gently remove from group as they ignore your whispers after they get an item you need - even a "no sorry, I need this Toothrow Inferno Staff even though I miss 60 items from this dungeon and you miss one" would suffice but no, just silence.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but you wouldn't believe how often something like this happens when pugging (main reason I personally try to avoid that as much as possible).

In the end it is a MMO and you're supposed to interact with people in MMOs - most of them actually have group loot and need/greed rolls even, and the ones with personal loot tend to display who got what (look at World of Warcraft for instance, which got their version of personal loot in Mists of Pandaria).

In fact, seeing who gets what loot should be a base game feature and not something you need an addon for.

You're not entitled to anyone's loot. I am not obliged to tell you what I got from the boss if I don't want to, because it is not group loot, it is something that dropped on me. The fact it might be the last piece to finish a set means nothing if the other person wants to keep the staff to store it in their house or deconstruct it, or do whatever they want with it.

Auth3nticGlitch · March 2021

I believe the biggest issue simply stems from not having the option to ignore those requests or to disable loot sharing. I personally don't care if people see my loot but I should be allowed to ignore/filter any requests for my loot from people who whisper me without sacrificing any important messages from guildies or important people.

Which is totally THEIR CHOICE and no one should question their motives or be upset if that is what they want to do as their reasons may not have anything to do with being socially anxious its really no ones business. It appears many people in here believe they have the right to whisper for the loot and those who believe they should not have that right, have no option to disable or ignore/filter loot requests from group members I believe this discussion would probably never even be happening if this option was available.

Decimus · March 2021

AuraoftheAzureSea wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

That's patently not true. Because this doesn't happen on console. People post up what they are looking for at the start of the dungeon and then when the dungeon is finished people link in chat and trade what they are willing to. And then everyone goes their separate way without spying on other people's drops.

People on console probably aren't used to seeing loot via addons.

All I can say is that if addons didn't exist & someone refused to link what dropped I'd kick them from group and probably add them on ignore so I wouldn't have them wasting potential RNG in the future.

This is mostly a non-issue though as I play with people I know, but every now and then when someone from the fixed group isn't available you do run into the "mute pug" whom you have to gently remove from group as they ignore your whispers after they get an item you need - even a "no sorry, I need this Toothrow Inferno Staff even though I miss 60 items from this dungeon and you miss one" would suffice but no, just silence.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but you wouldn't believe how often something like this happens when pugging (main reason I personally try to avoid that as much as possible).

In the end it is a MMO and you're supposed to interact with people in MMOs - most of them actually have group loot and need/greed rolls even, and the ones with personal loot tend to display who got what (look at World of Warcraft for instance, which got their version of personal loot in Mists of Pandaria).

In fact, seeing who gets what loot should be a base game feature and not something you need an addon for.

Wow. Suddenly, the earlier discussion about entitlement seems a lot more relevant to this thread.

Eh, it's not really about entitlement, more about just common decency and math.

I'm not about to go back 7 pages to read the conversation, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "you're not entitled to loot other people get", which is an argument that lacks a lot of detail.

Look at it this way: you run a dungeon and trade every single drop you got to a person (or people) missing most of them because that's what a decent human being is supposed to do (no, you don't really need those 500 gold from vendoring them that much).

Meanwhile that person gets the one item you've been after (1,6% drop chance with average 60 items that can drop from last boss/treasure chests), but refuses to trade it because he's also missing it.

If you're missing one piece from a dungeon your chances of getting a missing item are exponentially smaller than the chances for that other person missing 60 items.

Are they entitled to their loot? Sure.

I'm also entitled to never carrying their *** again and to adding them on my ignore list.

Anyway, moot point: when you're competing for top places in item set collection leaderboard you're not supposed to run with pugs anyway.

Just hoping this can explain how collectors who aren't as fortunate to being able to run with people they know might see this whole argument.

peacenote · March 2021

I would rather have the add-on over the option for privacy, if we can't have both... though that would be nice.

I do understand people who feel it is intrusive. What I do, if I see an un-linked drop that I would like, is write "lf xxx" in group chat. If the piece isn't offered I assume the person who got the drop needs it.

Frankly there is always so much in chat half the time I don't catch if what I'm looking for drops, but it is sad that people are rude and demanding and make things uncomfortable for others.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · March 2021

Group ... no.

If I see you are going down I will help, otherwise its all solo for me.

xAarionx · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

Eh, it's not really about entitlement, more about just common decency and math.

I'm not about to go back 7 pages to read the conversation, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "you're not entitled to loot other people get", which is an argument that lacks a lot of detail.

Look at it this way: you run a dungeon and trade every single drop you got to a person (or people) missing most of them because that's what a decent human being is supposed to do (no, you don't really need those 500 gold from vendoring them that much).

Meanwhile that person gets the one item you've been after (1,6% drop chance with average 60 items that can drop from last boss/treasure chests), but refuses to trade it because he's also missing it.

If you're missing one piece from a dungeon your chances of getting a missing item are exponentially smaller than the chances for that other person missing 60 items.

Are they entitled to their loot? Sure.

I'm also entitled to never carrying their *** again and to adding them on my ignore list.

Anyway, moot point: when you're competing for top places in item set collection leaderboard you're not supposed to run with pugs anyway.

Just hoping this can explain how collectors who aren't as fortunate to being able to run with people they know might see this whole argument.

Thats... Just Plainly... I don't know even how to say without using some word that will problably get this post deleted...

Thats ABSOLUTELY NOT common decency and Absolutely NOT common math.

The same way that if you have some kind of some freaking obnoxious anxiety problem that you can't handle someone just wispering you asking if you gonna use something that you got is not my problem
(In fact if someone starts raging because I knew what they looted I'll instatly label that person as toxic and block her, nevertheless if it's the middle of a dun an trial i'll just kick her out. A NO is suficient, i'll understand, no need to start a fuzz. But it's definetly It's not my issue if you have issues, and i'm not obligated to coope with that, specially in an online game that I play to relax and entertain myself (Funny how people see only one side of that), and it happened already sometimes, and I'll always do that)

But the logic goes both ways

If you Are trying for a gear for the 500Th time that you need it and is only missing that, and some other person get it before you, they've every right to hold the item. It belongs to THEM, THAT is simple logic, they'll give to you if, and only if they want, and by their decision. There is no buts in here

"But I tried so much, and i'm only missing one, he only have that he won't have a use for it right now". That's not their problem

If they took pity on you and decide to give it, good for them, but if they don't want to do it, thats not bad either, because they're in their rights.

KalyanLazair · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

AuraoftheAzureSea wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

That's patently not true. Because this doesn't happen on console. People post up what they are looking for at the start of the dungeon and then when the dungeon is finished people link in chat and trade what they are willing to. And then everyone goes their separate way without spying on other people's drops.

People on console probably aren't used to seeing loot via addons.

All I can say is that if addons didn't exist & someone refused to link what dropped I'd kick them from group and probably add them on ignore so I wouldn't have them wasting potential RNG in the future.

This is mostly a non-issue though as I play with people I know, but every now and then when someone from the fixed group isn't available you do run into the "mute pug" whom you have to gently remove from group as they ignore your whispers after they get an item you need - even a "no sorry, I need this Toothrow Inferno Staff even though I miss 60 items from this dungeon and you miss one" would suffice but no, just silence.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but you wouldn't believe how often something like this happens when pugging (main reason I personally try to avoid that as much as possible).

In the end it is a MMO and you're supposed to interact with people in MMOs - most of them actually have group loot and need/greed rolls even, and the ones with personal loot tend to display who got what (look at World of Warcraft for instance, which got their version of personal loot in Mists of Pandaria).

In fact, seeing who gets what loot should be a base game feature and not something you need an addon for.

Wow. Suddenly, the earlier discussion about entitlement seems a lot more relevant to this thread.

Eh, it's not really about entitlement, more about just common decency and math.

I'm not about to go back 7 pages to read the conversation, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "you're not entitled to loot other people get", which is an argument that lacks a lot of detail.

Look at it this way: you run a dungeon and trade every single drop you got to a person (or people) missing most of them because that's what a decent human being is supposed to do (no, you don't really need those 500 gold from vendoring them that much).

Meanwhile that person gets the one item you've been after (1,6% drop chance with average 60 items that can drop from last boss/treasure chests), but refuses to trade it because he's also missing it.

If you're missing one piece from a dungeon your chances of getting a missing item are exponentially smaller than the chances for that other person missing 60 items.

Are they entitled to their loot? Sure.

I'm also entitled to never carrying their *** again and to adding them on my ignore list.

Anyway, moot point: when you're competing for top places in item set collection leaderboard you're not supposed to run with pugs anyway.

Just hoping this can explain how collectors who aren't as fortunate to being able to run with people they know might see this whole argument.

That's not human decency. Human decency is someone holding the door for you if you're carrying bags or a heavy load, not giving you a worthless virtual collectible that he got lucky with and you didn't.

I also run dungeons with pugs from time to time, and I don't expect anything from them, nor do I demand anything from them. If they want to give me something out of their own free will, I will appreciate it, and I will always give away what I want or don't need. I believe that is human decency, not expecting a rare staff in return just because you gave them three leg pieces.

Decimus · March 2021

xAarionx wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Eh, it's not really about entitlement, more about just common decency and math.

I'm not about to go back 7 pages to read the conversation, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "you're not entitled to loot other people get", which is an argument that lacks a lot of detail.

Look at it this way: you run a dungeon and trade every single drop you got to a person (or people) missing most of them because that's what a decent human being is supposed to do (no, you don't really need those 500 gold from vendoring them that much).

Meanwhile that person gets the one item you've been after (1,6% drop chance with average 60 items that can drop from last boss/treasure chests), but refuses to trade it because he's also missing it.

If you're missing one piece from a dungeon your chances of getting a missing item are exponentially smaller than the chances for that other person missing 60 items.

Are they entitled to their loot? Sure.

I'm also entitled to never carrying their *** again and to adding them on my ignore list.

Anyway, moot point: when you're competing for top places in item set collection leaderboard you're not supposed to run with pugs anyway.

Just hoping this can explain how collectors who aren't as fortunate to being able to run with people they know might see this whole argument.

Thats... Just Plainly... I don't know even how to say without using some word that will problably get this post deleted...

Thats ABSOLUTELY NOT common decency and Absolutely NOT common math.

The same way that if you have some kind of some freaking obnoxious anxiety problem that you can't handle someone just wispering you asking if you gonna use something that you got is not my problem
(In fact if someone starts raging because I knew what they looted I'll instatly label that person as toxic and block her, nevertheless if it's the middle of a dun an trial i'll just kick her out. A NO is suficient, i'll understand, no need to start a fuzz. But it's definetly It's not my issue if you have issues, and i'm not obligated to coope with that, specially in an online game that I play to relax and entertain myself (Funny how people see only one side of that), and it happened already sometimes, and I'll always do that)

But the logic goes both ways

If you Are trying for a gear for the 500Th time that you need it and is only missing that, and some other person get it before you, they've every right to hold the item. It belongs to THEM, THAT is simple logic, they'll give to you if, and only if they want, and by their decision. There is no buts in here

"But I tried so much, and i'm only missing one, he only have that he won't have a use for it right now". That's not their problem

If they took pity on you and decide to give it, good for them, but if they don't want to do it, thats not bad either, because they're in their rights.

Cool. You know what's within my rights? Not playing with that person.

In fact, since I'm probably the one who formed the group you know what else is in my rights? Vote kick that person.

Glad we understand each other.

Anyway, these days if I have to invite pugs to fill in a slot I usually type something along the lines "hey we're doing this for set collections mostly, hope you don't mind opening chests" etc etc and if they don't say hi, don't write anything or interact with the grp in any way they're gone before the run even begins.

KalyanLazair wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

AuraoftheAzureSea wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Think of it this way: if this addon didn't exist, collectors would ask for what dropped after every boss and dungeons would take a lot longer to complete.

Refuse to link what dropped? Kicked.

I can imagine that leading to a lot more drama and "intrusiveness" than what we have right now.

That's patently not true. Because this doesn't happen on console. People post up what they are looking for at the start of the dungeon and then when the dungeon is finished people link in chat and trade what they are willing to. And then everyone goes their separate way without spying on other people's drops.

People on console probably aren't used to seeing loot via addons.

All I can say is that if addons didn't exist & someone refused to link what dropped I'd kick them from group and probably add them on ignore so I wouldn't have them wasting potential RNG in the future.

This is mostly a non-issue though as I play with people I know, but every now and then when someone from the fixed group isn't available you do run into the "mute pug" whom you have to gently remove from group as they ignore your whispers after they get an item you need - even a "no sorry, I need this Toothrow Inferno Staff even though I miss 60 items from this dungeon and you miss one" would suffice but no, just silence.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but you wouldn't believe how often something like this happens when pugging (main reason I personally try to avoid that as much as possible).

In the end it is a MMO and you're supposed to interact with people in MMOs - most of them actually have group loot and need/greed rolls even, and the ones with personal loot tend to display who got what (look at World of Warcraft for instance, which got their version of personal loot in Mists of Pandaria).

In fact, seeing who gets what loot should be a base game feature and not something you need an addon for.

Wow. Suddenly, the earlier discussion about entitlement seems a lot more relevant to this thread.

Eh, it's not really about entitlement, more about just common decency and math.

I'm not about to go back 7 pages to read the conversation, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "you're not entitled to loot other people get", which is an argument that lacks a lot of detail.

Look at it this way: you run a dungeon and trade every single drop you got to a person (or people) missing most of them because that's what a decent human being is supposed to do (no, you don't really need those 500 gold from vendoring them that much).

Meanwhile that person gets the one item you've been after (1,6% drop chance with average 60 items that can drop from last boss/treasure chests), but refuses to trade it because he's also missing it.

If you're missing one piece from a dungeon your chances of getting a missing item are exponentially smaller than the chances for that other person missing 60 items.

Are they entitled to their loot? Sure.

I'm also entitled to never carrying their *** again and to adding them on my ignore list.

Anyway, moot point: when you're competing for top places in item set collection leaderboard you're not supposed to run with pugs anyway.

Just hoping this can explain how collectors who aren't as fortunate to being able to run with people they know might see this whole argument.

That's not human decency. Human decency is someone holding the door for you if you're carrying bags or a heavy load, not giving you a worthless virtual collectible that he got lucky with and you didn't.

I also run dungeons with pugs from time to time, and I don't expect anything from them, nor do I demand anything from them. If they want to give me something out of their own free will, I will appreciate it, and I will always give away what I want or don't need. I believe that is human decency, not expecting a rare staff in return just because you gave them three leg pieces.

Let me know when you have 6000+ items collected & 90-100% in most dungeons - will be interested to hear if you still feel that way. From what I read what you described is the casual POV of someone who still misses a lot of items.

Also, it's more like giving people those three leg pieces, a staff, a SnB, 2H, Maul from not just one dungeon but multiple of them and when one thing you need finally drops from a dungeon they don't want to give it to you.

I usually don't care much about it if I'm still missing 5+ items, but if it's the last item I'm missing & they're sucking up missing drops like a vacuum cleaner I might be slightly annoyed by that & hesitant to play with such a person again.

xAarionx · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

Cool. You know what's within my rights? Not playing with that person.

In fact, since I'm probably the one who formed the group you know what else is in my rights? Vote kick that person.

Glad we understand each other.

Thats true enough, but Plz, give your acc name so I'll add you to my ignore so I'll never have the risk run into a dun with You
Because you're basicly saying that you're entitled to others loot when You "supposedly" need them more
(wich, is, in fact not true, and also, your "math" is also not true because when you say that "he has a higher chance of getting a piece that he need, you're are ignoring the basic principle of statitics, that is the independence of events. and, just to note, you're talking to a physics teacher, so I may know a litlle bit about the matter...)

I could argue here about how the person, even missing 4 pieces will, mostly likely, eventually, need that one piece that you're demanding her to give away, but that would be a waste of time

Decimus · March 2021

xAarionx wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Cool. You know what's within my rights? Not playing with that person.

In fact, since I'm probably the one who formed the group you know what else is in my rights? Vote kick that person.

Glad we understand each other.

Thats true enough, but Plz, give your acc name so I'll add you to my ignore so I'll never have the risk run into a dun with You
Because you're basicly saying that you're entitled to others loot when You "supposedly" need them more
(wich, is, in fact not true, and also, your "math" is also not true because when you say that "he has a higher chance of getting a piece that he need, you're are ignoring the basic principle of statitics, that is the independence of events. and, just to note, you're talking to a physics teacher, so I may know a litlle bit about the matter...)

I could argue here about how the person, even missing 4 pieces will, mostly likely, eventually, need that one piece that you're demanding her to give away, but that would be a waste of time

Account name is here, #4 at the moment

https://www.eso-armory.com/armory

Also since I love correcting teachers: the chance of getting a missing item for someone with 59/60 is 1,66%. The chance of getting a missing item for someone with 10/60 is 83,33%. This is called probability.

Sure, that person might eventually wind up needing that same piece he/she kindly gave you - that person might also have it drop 3-4 times over the next couple of runs and wind up deconstructing it or giving it to someone else.

What was it again, independence of events?

Either way, on top of your loot, you're also entitled to being wrong so I'll just leave it at that.

BeefcakeManwich · March 2021

I propose an addon created to have ppl and their precious be only grouped with other ppl and their precious.

Contaminate · March 2021

xAarionx wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Cool. You know what's within my rights? Not playing with that person.

In fact, since I'm probably the one who formed the group you know what else is in my rights? Vote kick that person.

Glad we understand each other.

Thats true enough, but Plz, give your acc name so I'll add you to my ignore so I'll never have the risk run into a dun with You
Because you're basicly saying that you're entitled to others loot when You "supposedly" need them more
(wich, is, in fact not true, and also, your "math" is also not true because when you say that "he has a higher chance of getting a piece that he need, you're are ignoring the basic principle of statitics, that is the independence of events. and, just to note, you're talking to a physics teacher, so I may know a litlle bit about the matter...)

I could argue here about how the person, even missing 4 pieces will, mostly likely, eventually, need that one piece that you're demanding her to give away, but that would be a waste of time

[snip] The vast majority of people using this addon will politely ask someone for the item if they don’t need it, or offer to buy it. That is my experience in 99% of cases I’m asked, or I ask, for gear that drops. The vast majority of players have no issues with receiving polite asks or offers.

[snip] Those aren’t dependent on how much info the game provides to them. Same things with the people whose response to a polite ask or offer is to announce they’ll destroy the item being asked for out of spite. Both are very rude individuals, even though one has information and the other does not. Thankfully the vast majority of players, both those who do use and who do not use this addon, are generally polite about requests for dropped gear.

robertthebard · March 2021

remosito wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

@AngryOldMan

AngryOldMan wrote: »

... What settings do i need to adjust to protect my precious loot from prying eyes? If its not something i can adjust in settings, which Add-On is hiding my highly valued loot? If there aint an Add-On yet, can someone please make it so i can have my beloved loot for myself? ...

Sorry to say that, but you can do nothing about that.

ZoS coded the game to have your loot information broadcasted to your group members. So, no "Loot Blocker" addon is possible at your side as the game server sends the information about all the drops (yours included) directly to other players (and your client is out of these communication paths (from server to other clients) and cannot affect that anyhow) .
Unless the Game-makers change the existing mechanics to add you controls upon the said server behaviour, you are helpless.

The game doesn't broadcast loot. An add-on does.

And I agree with OP. I hate it. Its very rude for other people to be seeing my inventory and asking for gear.

you are wrong. it is zos game code that makes the dropped loot info availabke to all party members.

the addon simply displays that info.

and we cant see your inventory at all. zos does not share that info withparty members.

you are barking up the wrong tree. zos gives the drop info out to party members.

No, you are wrong. The game does not display drops w/out the addon. What it does do is track what is and isn't dropped, so that Random scammer A can't submit a ticket claiming they got a drop that they didn't get, trying to game the system, or, it verifies Random Looter's claim that an item was supposed to be in their inventory and isn't. These addons go into the backend code, and change it's function. We can argue the semantics of seeing into our inventories all night, but the fact that an addon tells you what I picked up is good enough for me. It is revealing things in my inventory, whether I'm willing to allow it or not.

robertthebard · March 2021

Decimus wrote: »

Let me know when you have 6000+ items collected & 90-100% in most dungeons - will be interested to hear if you still feel that way. From what I read what you described is the casual POV of someone who still misses a lot of items.

Also, it's more like giving people those three leg pieces, a staff, a SnB, 2H, Maul from not just one dungeon but multiple of them and when one thing you need finally drops from a dungeon they don't want to give it to you.

I usually don't care much about it if I'm still missing 5+ items, but if it's the last item I'm missing & they're sucking up missing drops like a vacuum cleaner I might be slightly annoyed by that & hesitant to play with such a person again.

Ah, the memories. Running a dungeon every week for 3 years trying to pull one weapon, and never getting it, in a game where loot was group loot, because we had to roll for it. You know what I didn't do? I didn't start kicking people out of groups when I didn't get what I was after. I didn't try to claim "but I've done this x times, I should be the one to get y". It seems you care a great deal about it, and that's why you keep trying to leverage it as an argument for why you should be able to see what they get, and whisper them to give it to you, under penalty of "vote kick". This is exactly why this addon is a bad idea.

FluffyDoom · March 2021

If it's possible to do, seems to me that the diplomatic solution would be to enable a method to toggle on/off participation in sharing loot data. Why not let each player decide to share/not share as they wish?

remosito · March 2021

robertthebard wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Let me know when you have 6000+ items collected & 90-100% in most dungeons - will be interested to hear if you still feel that way. From what I read what you described is the casual POV of someone who still misses a lot of items.

Also, it's more like giving people those three leg pieces, a staff, a SnB, 2H, Maul from not just one dungeon but multiple of them and when one thing you need finally drops from a dungeon they don't want to give it to you.

I usually don't care much about it if I'm still missing 5+ items, but if it's the last item I'm missing & they're sucking up missing drops like a vacuum cleaner I might be slightly annoyed by that & hesitant to play with such a person again.

Ah, the memories. Running a dungeon every week for 3 years trying to pull one weapon, and never getting it, in a game where loot was group loot, because we had to roll for it. You know what I didn't do? I didn't start kicking people out of groups when I didn't get what I was after. I didn't try to claim "but I've done this x times, I should be the one to get y". It seems you care a great deal about it, and that's why you keep trying to leverage it as an argument for why you should be able to see what they get, and whisper them to give it to you, under penalty of "vote kick". This is exactly why this addon is a bad idea.

that's actually a very good reason why this addon is a good idea.

vote kick needs majority. if they get majority even though I need loot meself. Good to know. Don't wanna have anything to do with such people and even less help them achieve anything.

Now. I pug exclusively. 1000+ runs? Never happened. Not even close.