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A detailed and straight explanation to why magnecro needs changes
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Dovahmiim✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »It's the top dmg dealer in pve and at the top of pvp. It doesn't need buffs.
So you're saying Magcro is better than Stamcro in PvP ? I guess we know who really plays this game and it's definitely not the forums.
They specified that it was "the top" DD for PvE and made the distinction that it was "at the top" for PvP, don't try to twist their words when you know full well what they meant. And yes, MagNecro is "at the top" for PvP as well, just take a look at this. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557210/pvp-tierlist-for-markarth. Tier lists for this patch are not out yet, given how recently it happened, but I imagine that it will likewise be Necro and Warden at the top as well.
I do however agree that Magcro needs changes- specifically, nerfs. It's overperforming everywhere and we all know that the only reason ZOS has allowed it to do so is because it's a DLC class. It's mind boggling how Necro and Warden players can realize this, pick and play their class specifically BECAUSE they know it's broken, and then have the gall to ask for buffs and demean other players when they point out the class is busted.
Thought I'd correct you here. This tier list was based on the PTS, Magcro was 100% going to be the top spec if procs remained active. In the current no proc conditions, magcro is bottom tier. That being said, if they are going to be given a viable offense kit, they need to be nerfed defensively, mag/stamcros are unkillable if the user knows what they're doing.I'm better.2 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I seen a whole video explaining why magica blastbones is broken. It just is silly. Does it actually do anything? In teh video it was EXACTLY the same as unmorphed. Like no difference anywhere in any test.1 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭Re PvE: I just checked the high Magcro dps logs linked after the patch and they all show only 3 necro skills used against dummies. Blastbones, arcanist, unnerving boneyard. All the rest of the DPS on all the high ranked DPS magicka necros in PvP or PvE still comes from non class skills and light attacks.
Re PvP (open world) I agree magcros, even specced fully for dps in BG's and other PvP, are tanky, compared to some other classes and have some nice self heals/group buffs/debuffs available. But they are def not high dps without proc sets and pretty much everyone (even in the much quoted PVP ranking thread) agrees they are really bad solo/duo in open world PvP.
Using the spammable skull is ineffective. Applying the highest class dps skill....blastbones..... is nigh impossible in open world. It is so easy to avoid. Placing the colossus, except against zerglings in breech or on NPC guards, is so laggy and difficult that the chance of major vulnerability is hardly worth it. Meteor and destro ults are much more reliable as they go off where and when you choose. May as well play stamcro if you want reliable high dps performance since now you don't use class skills 70-90% of time on magcros either and stamcros work better with no procs. So much for class based choices and offering a stam v mag distinction....sigh.
One reason I support the extension of the no proc set test in Cyrodil is we can hope that the devs will see how classes actually perform as opposed to how gear sets distort class performance. It might also help change direction from homogenizing all classes so they use the same mag/stam/heal skills regardless of class, and may encourage the Combat design team (err... person) to go back to class distinction and the consequent rock paper scissors model in PvP.
While everyone has to be able to do everything that every other class does, we may as well just play a game where you choose to play Jo/e based solely on their appearance and then you get the identical skills toolkit regardless of that choice. I guess that would make developing the combat in the game much easier and require even fewer staff.Edited by aetherial_heavenn on March 18, 2021 2:35AMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos0 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Thought I'd correct you here. This tier list was based on the PTS, Magcro was 100% going to be the top spec if procs remained active. In the current no proc conditions, magcro is bottom tier. That being said, if they are going to be given a viable offense kit, they need to be nerfed defensively, mag/stamcros are unkillable if the user knows what they're doing.
That's fair, I'll give you that one. Mag Necro was tailor-made for the proc meta with strong defensive abilities and passives (15% DOT damage reduction, 10% total damage reduction from Spirit Guardian, Major Protection, free 3% damage reduction) and Clown Form Ravenous Goliath allowing them to weather pressure and reset fights entirely while putting on the heat with free damage from procs. As it was described:the offensive toolkit of a class has way less effect on where it'll find itself on the list, what matters this patch is how your defensive toolkit looks like and how good you can stack HP and preferably benefit from that, like warden does with Arctic blast.
The effects on the meta are so powerful that we have actually considered making a proc set tier list rather than a class tier list, because procs are what define your viability this patch, your class is just the hollow envelope you fit onto them.
I even agree that Mag Necro could use some changes, like fixes to the Blastbones morph and other skills, but as it stands now, Necro in general is overtuned, and specific changes can't be made as ZOS refuses to balance PvE and PvP separately. Stam Necro is completely broken in PvP, as is Stam Warden, and Mag Necro is quite strong as well in Battlegrounds and Duels, and will likewise be a strong contender in Cyrodiil once again when procs return. Unlike Stam Warden though, both Mag and Stam Necro are overperforming in trials and PvE too; having one class out of 6 be at or near the top in literally every aspect of the game is a clear indication that it is not balanced.0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »Re PvE: I just checked the high Magcro dps logs linked after the patch and they all show only 3 necro skills used against dummies. Blastbones, arcanist, unnerving boneyard. All the rest of the DPS on all the high ranked DPS magicka necros in PvP or PvE still comes from non class skills and light attacks.
Re PvP (open world) I agree magcros, even specced fully for dps in BG's and other PvP, are tanky, compared to some other classes and have some nice self heals/group buffs/debuffs available. But they are def not high dps without proc sets and pretty much everyone (even in the much quoted PVP ranking thread) agrees they are really bad solo/duo in open world PvP.
Using the spammable skull is ineffective. Applying the highest class dps skill....blastbones..... is nigh impossible in open world. It is so easy to avoid. Placing the colossus, except against zerglings in breech or on NPC guards, is so laggy and difficult that the chance of major vulnerability is hardly worth it. Meteor and destro ults are much more reliable as they go off where and when you choose. May as well play stamcro if you want reliable high dps performance since now you don't use class skills 70-90% of time on magcros either and stamcros work better with no procs. So much for class based choices and offering a stam v mag distinction....sigh.
One reason I support the extension of the no proc set test in Cyrodil is we can hope that the devs will see how classes actually perform as opposed to how gear sets distort class performance. It might also help change direction from homogenizing all classes so they use the same mag/stam/heal skills regardless of class, and may encourage the Combat design team (err... person) to go back to class distinction and the consequent rock paper scissors model in PvP.
While everyone has to be able to do everything that every other class does, we may as well just play a game where you choose to play Jo/e based solely on their appearance and then you get the identical skills toolkit regardless of that choice. I guess that would make developing the combat in the game much easier and require even fewer staff.
Can't speak to PVP but Mystic Siphon is also used in PvE. So that's 5/6 of the DPS skills used. Most classes use less than 5.
The only reason that Skull isn't used is that DoT rotations are much better for Cros due to CP changes. Skull is still used in plenty of content though.0 -
Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭CaptainVenom wrote: »I'm done explaining why magnecro is actually weak... for every constructive point I show, someone will always show a pre-made argument with some outdated log.
I prove my point because I play the class. Every single day, in every single mode/dungeon/trial.
That said, believe what you want.
You and me both good buddy, I always find a way to fine-tune my Necromage (Been playin as one since day one of the Elsweyr chapter release) to be better in PvE but Necromancers have a very good toolkit if time is taken to put the right pieces together (plus if you really want good damage output from Shocking siphon and Mystic orb both, consider using draugrkins grip as the flat damage increase on cursed targets applies before criticals and can really ruin an enemies day.)
I purely play on console so no logs here. More importantly, one of the community rules outlines that people can “Agree to Disagree” on most topics, specifically by indirect means, Isac’s law: With every Action, governs an equal or opposite reaction.If you see me anywhere. Know that I am sitting back with a bag of popcorn, watching as ESO burns the goodwill of its player base with practices that only disrespects the players time like it did to me and many others...
If a game does not respect your time, best thing to do is move on from it and find something else.0 -
JayKwellen✭✭✭✭✭...No, he didn't? It's in the "A" tier, above Stam/Mag DK, Stam/Mag Blade, Stam/Mag Plar and Mag Sorc. And this was just last patch. Sure, the proc sets have been removed, but they'll be returning in 3 months, and in the meantime Necro continues to dominate both PvE trials and PvP in Battlegrounds and duels. It's not balanced, and everyone knows it. Including you.If you're going to spread everywhere that Magcro is so good how come the class is non-existent solo aside 2-3 good people in cyrodiil lmao.
It's the most recent class and locked behind DLC as well, you'd expect fewer people to have it. Uncommon does not equate to bad. Magcro is the highest DPS parse in the game, along with being quite strong in PvP, and Stamcro has been tied with Stamden for strongest PvP build for a while. Necro is clearly overtuned, as is Warden. There are multiple classes in this game which are in desperate need of balance changes to render them competitive again, Necro is not one of them.
[Edited for Quote]
@Sangwyne Just curious by what measure do you consider Magcro to be quite strong PvP? No snark, genuinely curious.
I recently took my stamcro and changed it to mag, and it's been pretty uniquely awful. I've played every class in PvP and in solo/small-scale, for me at least, it thus far seems the worst of the worst. Even my no-proc stealth magblade had more success in outnumbered fights than the magcro. I'm talking in regard to no-proc open world cyrodiil and not BG's or duels, just for clarity.
I'm well aware of the strength of the class in group play as I did exactly that with harmony/VD (rip) and it was fantastic, but solo/open world/outnumbered? Hasn't at all been enjoyable. It's possible that I'm just subpar with it in that regard due to my limited time playing, but still, what about the class makes it better than any other class at anything outside of herding newbies into a corner and smashing them?
Xbox NA - JaeKwellen
AD PvP
Trying to main a magcro. This is awful.3 -
LukosCreyden✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magcro's problem isn't its power, but the fact that its skills are often janky, ineffective or at worse, broken.
See my sig for details on one such skill.
Also, yeah. Magcro is mediocre in pvp outside a couple niche set ups. Or maybe a cute healer. It suffers from "Not-Sorc"itis.
If people are stryggling against Magcro, they need only ensure they can evade blastbones. Once you have that nailed, they are pretty much harmless to anyone with experience in pvp.Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.3 -
Vermintide✭✭✭✭PVE:
Coming from a magblade, Necro is in a very nice place and honestly, it's a very easy class to do well with. In fact they play very similarly- if you gave it a ranged healing spammable and an execute, it would practically just be a magblade, only better. The last thing it needs is buffs; but the one change I'd suggest is making Blastbones castable without a target, like the NB Shade ability.
PVP:
It really needs help, but that's a deeper issue affecting mag vs stam in general. Stamcro is beastly. Magcro is a sitting duck. Desperately needs some mobility options and better CC options. There's just no real way to seal a kill on magcro.2 -
dmvab✭✭✭Is this a joke?
PVE necromancers are the top best. I'd try to understand if this was about pvp.
Maybe you should take a look at other races first.0
