Caught live on stream: Permissions on housing changing to "No access" ON ITS OWN

StabbityDoom · March 2021

Stabbitydoom
PC NA
This is my video: https://clips.twitch.tv/AverageReliableCoyoteYouWHY

My time zone CST

when did this happen? consistently, but the video was taken in march 2020. The same day this was posted (the thread doesn't seem to have a date on it beyond the month).

I was just sitting there idling on visitor and it, by itself, switched to no access.

To quote Gandalf and perhaps clarify: "ZOS wrote that issue was fixed in this Patch Notes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555219

"HOUSING
General
Fixed an issue where some homes would ignore the access permissions set by their owner."

This is not fixed as it keeps happening, even to players who do not use any addons at all.

Feendish · March 2021

I am @Feendish898 and play on PC NA. This is a persistent, consistent issue that happens on a daily basis. I have too many active houses (40+) to go to each one to see if happens across the board, but it happens enough.

I port into the house, and check permissions, to see no access listed. Change permissions to the right thing, and it has happened that as soon as I Alt out of the window, permissions will revert to no access.

SilverBride · March 2021

I wonder if a housing addon could be causing this, because I don't use any housing addons and it's never happened to me.

Have you tried disabling your housing addons and seeing if it still happens?

EDIT: Just noticed you said it's happened to some players without addons, too.

virtus753 · March 2021

Are you all on gamepad?

There is a linked bug where the group menu can pop up in the middle of pretty much anything and the housing permissions can change without your knowledge because the associated menus don’t actually get closed when the UI does. Using the left axis stick then opens the group menu tooltips and changes permissions behind the scenes.

If you’re not on gamepad, then don’t mind me. I was just thinking it sounds too coincidental.

ETA: can’t watch videos right now on crappy mobile service, sorry.

StabbityDoom · March 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

Are you all on gamepad?

There is a linked bug where the group menu can pop up in the middle of pretty much anything and the housing permissions can change without your knowledge because the associated menus don’t actually get closed when the UI does. Using the left axis stick then opens the group menu tooltips and changes permissions behind the scenes.

If you’re not on gamepad, then don’t mind me. I was just thinking it sounds too coincidental.

ETA: can’t watch videos right now on crappy mobile service, sorry.

Nope.

StabbityDoom · March 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

I wonder if a housing addon could be causing this, because I don't use any housing addons and it's never happened to me.

Have you tried disabling your housing addons and seeing if it still happens?

EDIT: Just noticed you said it's happened to some players without addons, too.

I've both tried it to test it to make sure it wasn't an addon, plus have people in my guild tell me its happening despite using no addons at all (not just housing, any addons).

katanagirl1 · March 2021

I don’t have proof, but I still suspect it has to do with inheriting permissions when you purchase a new home.

My guess is that instead of just a copy, it is creating a soft link to the original house, and updating it each time you revisit. Like for instance, if you updated the original house at some later time the inherited permission house gets confused because it is still linked.

Gandalf_72 · March 2021

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Stabbitydoom
PC NA
This is my video: https://clips.twitch.tv/AverageReliableCoyoteYouWHY

My time zone CST

when did this happen? consistently, but the video was taken in march 2020. The same day this was posted (the thread doesn't seem to have a date on it beyond the month).

I was just sitting there idling on visitor and it, by itself, switched to no access.

To quote Gandalf and perhaps clarify: "ZOS wrote that issue was fixed in this Patch Notes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555219

"HOUSING
General
Fixed an issue where some homes would ignore the access permissions set by their owner."

This is not fixed as it keeps happening, even to players who do not use any addons at all.

I have opened this new thread in Bug Reports too:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564448

Please fix this bug.
Thank you.

Rishikesa108 · March 2021

I think ZOS doesn't listen to us. It's been 1 year since Stabbity posted that very well done video, yet now @ZosGinaBruno comes to ask us for a video and asks us where the bug happens and what we were doing ... It seems really depressing to me. There are a lot of people around the world who have been saying the same thing for 1 year ... and nobody is really taken into consideration.

ZOS_GinaBruno · March 2021

Hey all, appreciate the details that have been provided thus far. Please understand that we have fixed several underlying issues since the original report was made, and are looking for additional information from any new reports to help narrow down exactly what may still be going wrong for specific players. The more specific we can get this information (and in this case, answering the questions that were asked on the previous page) the easier it will be for us to pinpoint any remaining issues. Thanks!

StabbityDoom · March 2021

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, appreciate the details that have been provided thus far. Please understand that we have fixed several underlying issues since the original report was made, and are looking for additional information from any new reports to help narrow down exactly what may still be going wrong for specific players. The more specific we can get this information (and in this case, answering the questions that were asked on the previous page) the easier it will be for us to pinpoint any remaining issues. Thanks!

I and several other streamers are trying to catch it on stream for you again. It's so unpredictable, but it does happen. Thanks.
@novadrakkon @swankery - any other streamers if you catch this can you clip it? Thank you

Rishikesa108 · March 2021

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks so much for your reports. In order to help us track this issue down, could you please provide the following information the next time you run into this issue:
Your account name

The platform and megaserver you were playing on at the time

The date and time when you saw it happen, and your time zone

A video of the event if possible, or screenshots if not

A description of what you were trying to do, and what you saw happen. If you were trying to add or remove a specific permission, please include the exact attempted edit as best you can.

Thanks in advance!

1) my account name is @Rishikesa108
2) I am playing on Steam platform, PC/EU
3) I’ve been experiencing this problem for about a year
4) I can't provide a better video than that provided by @Stabbitydoom, but I will try to catch something if possible
5) Even when I go to a house I own I always check the permission. I wish all my permissions were set on "Limited Visitors", but I often find "No Access" instead. The system changes the permissions by itself and sets itself to "No access".

NovaDrakkon · March 2021

StabbityDoom wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, appreciate the details that have been provided thus far. Please understand that we have fixed several underlying issues since the original report was made, and are looking for additional information from any new reports to help narrow down exactly what may still be going wrong for specific players. The more specific we can get this information (and in this case, answering the questions that were asked on the previous page) the easier it will be for us to pinpoint any remaining issues. Thanks!

I and several other streamers are trying to catch it on stream for you again. It's so unpredictable, but it does happen. Thanks.
@novadrakkon @swankery - any other streamers if you catch this can you clip it? Thank you

Absolutely! I'll be doing some building streams soon and hopefully can catch it.

LuxanQualta · March 2021

1) my account name is @LuxanQualta

2) I am playing on PC/NA, non-Steam account

3) I’ve been experiencing this problem for over a year

4) I can't provide a better video than that provided by @Stabbitydoom - sorry

5) Whenever I get a new house and assign permissions based on those I setup with my first house, it totally fails to show any of the permissions. I have to go in and individually add guilds, friends, and a decorator privilege every single time.

As I set permissions manually in a new house, I will see the new permission. So now if I have added a guild - it shows. Now if I go add a player and then go back to guild the guild permission no longer shows. I go back to player and the player no longer shows.

When I return to the house none of the permissions I set are visible ever!!!!

This started happening about the time I had 30 or so houses and has only gotten worse as I have managed to get all the houses except three.

There is no reliable way for me to see permissions on any of my houses. They are simply devoid of any displayed permissions. I frequently have to ask people to come to the house to test permissions so that I can know whether they have been set and I have to do this periodically as sometimes it seems the permissions do disappear.

I have been living with this and trying to ignore the annoyance, but it is a factor in not wanting to buy more houses to be honest. Well that and I have way too many already. LOL

There ought to be a button in the interface that allows you to reset all permissions to none on each individual house and another for all houses on the account. I would love to clear the mess I have and do one set of permissions, apply it to every house, and be able to see it when I look at each house's permissions. I hope I am not dreaming here - but it would just be wonderful!

One thought that I have had about this for a long time is that there must be a timeout on the script that loads these permissions that just is insufficient the more houses you have with varied permissions. It is like the game wants to load them, but just can't quite manage.

tim99 · March 2021

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t have proof, but I still suspect it has to do with inheriting permissions when you purchase a new home.

My guess is that instead of just a copy, it is creating a soft link to the original house, and updating it each time you revisit. Like for instance, if you updated the original house at some later time the inherited permission house gets confused because it is still linked.

can be a good point.... i think it started for me too when i first "copied another house permission"...

Wildberryjack · March 2021

Account name Wildberryjack.
Platform NA PC.
It's random, been happening for a while, latest one was yesterday.
I simply checked it because I know this is an issue and sure enough it was on No Access when I have every house set to Visitor.

This happens to my primary residence and all the others, it's random, some will change to No Access while others stay on Visitors. Changing my primary doesn't seem to affect it.

Delphinia · March 2021

tim99 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t have proof, but I still suspect it has to do with inheriting permissions when you purchase a new home.

My guess is that instead of just a copy, it is creating a soft link to the original house, and updating it each time you revisit. Like for instance, if you updated the original house at some later time the inherited permission house gets confused because it is still linked.

can be a good point.... i think it started for me too when i first "copied another house permission"...

Interesting thought, if it’s a behind the scenes thing.
However, if it’s when it prompts you to choose if you want to upon first entry into new home, I never do that and I still have this issue after years of buying new homes and never copying my settings.

katanagirl1 · March 2021

Delphinia wrote: »

tim99 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t have proof, but I still suspect it has to do with inheriting permissions when you purchase a new home.

My guess is that instead of just a copy, it is creating a soft link to the original house, and updating it each time you revisit. Like for instance, if you updated the original house at some later time the inherited permission house gets confused because it is still linked.

can be a good point.... i think it started for me too when i first "copied another house permission"...

Interesting thought, if it’s a behind the scenes thing.
However, if it’s when it prompts you to choose if you want to upon first entry into new home, I never do that and I still have this issue after years of buying new homes and never copying my settings.

On PS4, I don’t think you can proceed without copying permissions from one of your houses, otherwise I would have skipped it and I did not.

Rishikesa108 · April 2021

Please see this video.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-8cF39afDbOyJO9FDBFIP1Ogm7F9f8rC/view?usp=sharing
I am setting permissions and a second later they disappeared and "No Access" ever comes back

@Ginabruno pls do something, I can't let anybody permanently come to visit my houses !!!!
I have spent a lot of money for housing, but I am the only one who can go in my houses: other people can go there only if I set "Visitor" permission before. But later it changes itself to "No Access" again !!!!

katanagirl1 · April 2021

I posted in a previous thread that I believed that the permissions were being changed due to the one-time mandatory process of copying permissions on new houses in the game possibly creating a permanent link.

Instead of requiring the permissions copy when you buy a house, instead have each house get the same default permissions as a new house (and push this out as an upgrade in the next update). The only thing that needs to be shared with all the houses is the visitor and ban lists.

It would be a little inconvenient for players with many houses to go back and change permissions for each, but it sounds like they are doing that already many times.

I have only experienced this once because I don’t change my permissions.

Rishikesa108 · April 2021

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I posted in a previous thread that I believed that the permissions were being changed due to the one-time mandatory process of copying permissions on new houses in the game possibly creating a permanent link.

Instead of requiring the permissions copy when you buy a house, instead have each house get the same default permissions as a new house (and push this out as an upgrade in the next update). The only thing that needs to be shared with all the houses is the visitor and ban lists.

It would be a little inconvenient for players with many houses to go back and change permissions for each, but it sounds like they are doing that already many times.

I have only experienced this once because I don’t change my permissions.

The bug that I am speaking about does not refer to this topic of yours. It has nothing to do with changing permissions too often, nor it has to do with initial permission when buying a house. I don’t like to spend time changing permissions, but I have to do it because they always set to "No Access" by themselves.
Here another meaningful video, better than the previous.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/106LQOidt-qsh2jhKqaRh5S0zja7u9weZ/view?usp=sharing

bluebird · April 2021

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Please see this video.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-8cF39afDbOyJO9FDBFIP1Ogm7F9f8rC/view?usp=sharing
I am setting permissions and a second later they disappeared and "No Access" ever comes back

@Ginabruno pls do something, I can't let anybody permanently come to visit my houses !!!!
I have spent a lot of money for housing, but I am the only one who can go in my houses: other people can go there only if I set "Visitor" permission before. But later it changes itself to "No Access" again !!!!

This is correct, it's still happening.
Please, can the devs look into this bug? Thank you Gina/Jess/Sarah/!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_SarahHecker @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Happened to me too, I tried to add a person to visitor permission, but without even leaving the house or doing anything else, the newly added permission just disappeared within seconds! (See the video Rishikesa linked).

I tried to give permissions by ticking the 'Apply to all houses' box and un-ticking the box, but it made no difference, the permission just wouldn't stay. It appeared for 10 seconds, and then disappeared like in the video. This is really annoying, because apparently my guilds and friends have been deleted from several of my houses!

I don't know what's causing the issue, but similarly to the video-poster above, I also have a buttload of houses, so maybe your system gets overwhelmed with too many houses and permissions? Please fix this!

katanagirl1 · April 2021

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I posted in a previous thread that I believed that the permissions were being changed due to the one-time mandatory process of copying permissions on new houses in the game possibly creating a permanent link.

Instead of requiring the permissions copy when you buy a house, instead have each house get the same default permissions as a new house (and push this out as an upgrade in the next update). The only thing that needs to be shared with all the houses is the visitor and ban lists.

It would be a little inconvenient for players with many houses to go back and change permissions for each, but it sounds like they are doing that already many times.

I have only experienced this once because I don’t change my permissions.

The bug that I am speaking about does not refer to this topic of yours. It has nothing to do with changing permissions too often, nor it has to do with initial permission when buying a house. I don’t like to spend time changing permissions, but I have to do it because they always set to "No Access" by themselves.
Here another meaningful video, better than the previous.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/106LQOidt-qsh2jhKqaRh5S0zja7u9weZ/view?usp=sharing

This is my theory on what is happening behind the scenes to cause the problem everyone is seeing. I worked many years in algorithm development for computer software and based on the posts I have read, this explanation makes sense to me.

I haven’t heard anyone give a possible explanation so far and this is my suggestion to the devs to fix it.

FluffWit · April 2021

Happens a lot on console too.

I'd say every other time I look at my perms its switched from Visitor to No Access, almost like its flipping a coin on which to use everytime I go to my house.

katanagirl1 · April 2021

To the devs again:

Since PS4 removed our housing community with the last system update, we created a group message thread and were talking about this problem today.

Personally, when the permissions bug first came up and it was switching visitor permissions to “Decorator” (the last time) and some people got their houses trashed, I switched mine to “No Access” and put my close friends on the Visitor List instead.

It is a pain to travel to your house to add someone each time, but I have not had one single problem with changing permissions since then.

These are two different ways of handling permissions, and while the default setting is easier, the Visitor List seems to be working fine for me. I set the default permissions to “No Access”. I haven’t had any problems since then.

Something to consider...

EDIT:
additional info

Gandalf_72 · April 2021

Gandalf_72 wrote: »

I have opened this new thread in Bug Reports too:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564448

Please fix this bug.
Thank you.

ZOS already wrote that issue was fixed in PC/Mac Patch Notes v6.2.8

"HOUSING
General
Fixed an issue where some homes would ignore the access permissions set by their owner."

And next fix is announced in The Blackwood Chapter and Update 30 patch notes

"HOUSING
Housing Editor

Fixed an issue that could prevent your permission list from correctly appearing under certain circumstances, resulting in incomplete or empty permission lists.

It's the second fix, and we hope it works this time!

StabbityDoom · April 2021

Gandalf_72 wrote: »

Gandalf_72 wrote: »

I have opened this new thread in Bug Reports too:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564448

Please fix this bug.
Thank you.

ZOS already wrote that issue was fixed in PC/Mac Patch Notes v6.2.8

"HOUSING
General
Fixed an issue where some homes would ignore the access permissions set by their owner."

And next fix is announced in The Blackwood Chapter and Update 30 patch notes

"HOUSING
Housing Editor

Fixed an issue that could prevent your permission list from correctly appearing under certain circumstances, resulting in incomplete or empty permission lists.

It's the second fix, and we hope it works this time!

Gandalf, unfortunately that's not the only problem. We also have people being able to zone into "no access" homes

Gandalf_72 · June 2021

Fixed

Thank you ZOS !!