Age gap

AlextheMuspel · March 2021

As far as I'm aware, there's a large portion of players above 40 years-old in the ESO community. According to superdata, the average age for a mmorpg gamer in 2016 is 33. As for ESO, it is safe to assume that the Elder Scrolls IP potentially contributed to the older population's interest in the game.

As someone who's in the 18-24 age group, I can definitely feel the age gap sometimes, no matter in the game or on forum. Sometimes I wonder how old those who "debate" about irl politics in the zone chats are. Moreover, a LOT of players seem to come from the EQ era, meaning that they've probably played this genre for decades. They seem more tolerable towards the game company's monetization practices. I thought about why this is the case, and I came up with the following answer: they probably don't have much time to devote to gaming. At the moment, ESO is possibly the only game that they regularly play now, so their tolerance is higher.

Again, as someone who has hundreds of games on steam, consoles, and portable consoles, gaming has evolved SO MUCH beyond the MMORPG genre. For anyone who plays games outside of the MMORPG genre, it's clear as crystal how some of the systems in ESO are outdated. "Other MMORPG did the same thing" is not a valid excuse anymore. Unless MMORPG is the only genre that player ever played, for decades even.

Open for discussion: how does the age gap affect you as a younger/older player in ESO?

Agenericname · March 2021

I would think that the monetization issues were more tolerable to younger players. Older games certainly had cash shops, but its much more aggresive these days.

Gaming time may or may not be the factor, but, as you get older you really start to value the time and engery you're willing to put into some arguments. You could just spend it happily, smelling the roses.

FaylenSol · March 2021

I am right at the average for other MMORPGs. I am 33 years old. I tend to get along with every age group.

I am tolerant of most of the monetization that ESO has going for it. I work a lot in a decent paying IT job with very little overhead. So if I want to buy a fancy house I can do so without it negatively impacting me. Politics I stay out of because you rarely convince anyone of anything when engaging with strangers online. People dig their heels in when they're proven wrong or dismiss facts/evidence.

I think the only monetization I have grievance with is things other games don't charge for.

Things like changing character appearances.

I also think they should make it more abundantly clear when you are buying something that can be earned in game like a Werewolf Bite or Vampire Bite. Also the difference between DLC and Chapters is confusing for new players, so what comes with ESO+ can easily be misunderstood.

Charging for Imperials feels.... kind of bad. Same with Classes. Those feel like they should be included in the base game to avoid a PTW feeling. The only thing that excuses it is Zenimax has allowed the gifting of crown store items for gold so playres can unlock them via in-game currency.

Misty · March 2021

I for one am still a lover of the classic MMO. I'm not keen on these new fast paced games. They had it right with the tank, healer and DPS, it was a good combination and still is.
I know they are trying to reinvent the mmo but nothing has come close to beating the old proven formula.
I didn't like in game shops at first, but over time changed my views. When they are not P2W, why not, the dev's need a steady income and at no point do they force you to buy. Now, I actually like the idea were I can buy something that adds something to a beloved game.
I'm 67 by the way and was there at the very start.

ArchMikem · March 2021

Just turned 29, but back at 26, 27 I was in a little Guild with people in their 40s, 50s, etc. One Woman even plays/played the game with her Daughter, who was my age. Definitely not something I'm used to. I was perhaps the youngest of that group.

Then again this is the only game I've played that enables such socialization between players. You don't learn the ages and personalities of the people in a CoD Lobby. (Tho who would want to there)

Tandor · March 2021

I suspect you have it all the wrong way round. As an older player (I'm 70) and ex-EQ player I actually have more time to play because I'm retired. I'm not bothered by "the game company's monetisation practices" (we can each define them differently) because the switch from subscription-only to optional subscription/crown store made not a jot of difference to how I play the game. I have subscribed throughout the game's life and if there are a few things in the crown store I want (such as the occasional house given that I have no interest in the trader system and therefore don't have the gold with which to buy houses ingame) that is covered by the subscription crowns.

I play both multiple MMORPGs and offline single player games, and have done for many years. I don't discuss politics in any game, I suspect that's down to younger players mainly, and for some years now have disabled zone chat because there's nothing in it that is of interest to me. Politics, trolling, spammed selling, spammed guild promotion? My epeen is bigger than yours? No thanks, not interested. Likely to be younger players again. The Zone English channel is all I need to ask the odd question or give the odd answer.

As to whether the game is outdated, that's increasingly not the case in my view. Older games like EQ were a challenge, they took time to achieve anything worthwhile, and players respected that - leveling didn't happen all that often and when it did it really meant something. I wish that ESO was more like that, even if it meant you thought it was outdated, but the reality is that most changes trivialise the game even more as it adapts to the "I want everything without any effort or payment and I want it NOW" breed of gamer. If anything, ESO is moving with the times too much for my liking!

Mindcr0w · March 2021

As one of those "old" folks who has been gaming since the 80's and playing various MMO's for two decades I can tolerate the monetization in ESO because what is offered through the cash shop is almost exclusively cosmetic and convenience items.

Despite what some will claim p2w doesn't really exist in ESO. Anyone who claims otherwise likely hasn't had the misfortune of playing a legitimately p2w game, and I would be much less tolerant towards ESO if it were p2w.

That said, I would expect younger gamers to be more tolerant towards aggressive monetization and micro transactions because they've likely existed for the entire time the young have been gaming. Whereas they were once a new and confounding development for older gamers. Duck Hunt and Donkey Kong didn't have dlc or purchasable outfits you could put on Jump Man Mario.

Sylvermynx · March 2021

I'm 73 - started playing tabletop D&D in the mid 70s, graduated to CRPGs in the mid 80s, and started MMOs with WoW in 2006. I've played all the TES games since Arena released in 1994, got to ESO kind of late, but better late than never I guess.

I don't mind the crown store - there's not all that much to do with my ESO+ crowns at this point. I'll buy a few crates in seasons I like (really looking forward to the Ayleid ones), but I don't buy things like skill lines as I prefer to run all my characters around to get lorebooks, skyshards, wayshrines and antiquities because that's what I find fun.

I don't expect to ever quit playing games until I'm on my deathbed (which may not be soon - three of my grandparents were over 100 when they died, and the fourth was late 80s).

Miszou · March 2021

I'll be 50 next year and I think you have it backwards. Older gamers (such as myself) don't have a problem with the company's monetization practices, because we have more disposable income than college-age people.

And speaking purely for myself here, I have plenty of time for gaming now that the kids have left home and it's just myself and my wife hanging out in the evenings after work.

Nord_Raseri · March 2021

I don't think there's much of a 'gap'. The ages I've seen run fluidly from 20s to 70s in all my guilds. Granted, I do know more people between 30s and 50s.

HoosierPappy · March 2021

Spend it how you wanna spend it.
Dont think age has diddly to do with that other than "maybe" we older folk can accept the fact that it is an individual call and opinions are just that....and not "factual.
Not sure I make sense, but in my 62 year old mind, it does....LOL

magnusthorek · March 2021

I'm 33 (turning today, actually 😩) but, honestly, I don't care a damn about politics, my country's or worldwide's, nor about the business model ESO has — though I do think a few things are way too overpriced for their purpose or the overall quality of the product delivered (I'm looking at you Shrike's Nocturnal Flock <_<)

tc91101 · March 2021

Misty wrote: »

I'm 67 by the way and was there at the very start.

Did you play MUD's? I loved those. Man I could type fast. I was a typing freak of nature.

AlextheMuspel · March 2021

Miszou wrote: »

I'll be 50 next year and I think you have it backwards. Older gamers (such as myself) don't have a problem with the company's monetization practices, because we have more disposable income than college-age people.

And speaking purely for myself here, I have plenty of time for gaming now that the kids have left home and it's just myself and my wife hanging out in the evenings after work.

What I was saying is exactly that older players are more tolerable towards monetization practices.

DragonRacer · March 2021

I turn 36 next month and a lot of my guild seems to range from 25-45 or so. I avoid politics because nobody is ever seeking a rational discourse, just each side hammering at the other instead. As for monetization, eh... it's still up to you how you decide to use your discretionary income.

Vanya · March 2021

Thou worries needlessly. First of all the concern about politics should be tossed aside and fully rejected. The debate or toxic pretty much guaranteed discussion and If I may imply, even reading will not lead anywhere good and tis a purely colossal waste of time.

I am a 31 years old male. I have been playing MMO's since age 18 precisely. It never bothered me because I never played for other people nor my goal was to socialize. My aim is to experience the content regardless its labeled as an MMO-RPG it means not one is obliged or grouped or has to be bothered about community. Tis but an optional path.

I almost never even use Zone chat in game and the only way I connect to someone is when I do a group based dungeon or very rarely a Trial. You have to first ask yourself what do you truly want? Are you here to experience incredible amount of content The Elder Scrolls has to offer or do you want to bother about age gap or other players?

To sum it up. I have a full control to ignore,not to respond to anyone should I want. Age gap concerns me zero and never bothered me. I prefer human contact in real life,social sites, interaction online is not what aim for , but we are all different. I but once join guild and left it soon for obvious reasons of drama,distraction,etc etc.

May I offer thee advice, Do not bother. Play game for yourself ,not for others. Focus primarily on game content ,enjoy every moment, Freedom&Independence is what you need, without it thou will never fully enjoy,

Sincerely,
Limbstaria

AlextheMuspel · March 2021

Tandor wrote: »

I suspect you have it all the wrong way round. As an older player (I'm 70) and ex-EQ player I actually have more time to play because I'm retired. I'm not bothered by "the game company's monetisation practices" (we can each define them differently) because the switch from subscription-only to optional subscription/crown store made not a jot of difference to how I play the game. I have subscribed throughout the game's life and if there are a few things in the crown store I want (such as the occasional house given that I have no interest in the trader system and therefore don't have the gold with which to buy houses ingame) that is covered by the subscription crowns.

I play both multiple MMORPGs and offline single player games, and have done for many years. I don't discuss politics in any game, I suspect that's down to younger players mainly, and for some years now have disabled zone chat because there's nothing in it that is of interest to me. Politics, trolling, spammed selling, spammed guild promotion? My epeen is bigger than yours? No thanks, not interested. Likely to be younger players again. The Zone English channel is all I need to ask the odd question or give the odd answer.

As to whether the game is outdated, that's increasingly not the case in my view. Older games like EQ were a challenge, they took time to achieve anything worthwhile, and players respected that - leveling didn't happen all that often and when it did it really meant something. I wish that ESO was more like that, even if it meant you thought it was outdated, but the reality is that most changes trivialise the game even more as it adapts to the "I want everything without any effort or payment and I want it NOW" breed of gamer. If anything, ESO is moving with the times too much for my liking!

What I have in mind when I was talking about politics in zone chat is that I suspect the participants are in the 30-49 age group. There's a MASSIVE gap between the 30-49 and 60-79 groups. For the latter, which mostly consisted of retired folks, they would have more time to spend in the game to chill instead of debating politics.

Personally, I don't have much experience interacting with other players beyond my age group. But for players in the 24-49 group who don't have too much time to spend in the game, leveling can easily become a second job. While I'm all against instant gratification, thousands of hours of in-game time could easily impact the player's real-life negatively who's from 24-49 years old.

Elsonso · March 2021

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Again, as someone who has hundreds of games on steam, consoles, and portable consoles, gaming has evolved SO MUCH beyond the MMORPG genre. For anyone who plays games outside of the MMORPG genre, it's clear as crystal how some of the systems in ESO are outdated. "Other MMORPG did the same thing" is not a valid excuse anymore. Unless MMORPG is the only genre that player ever played, for decades even.

First, I don't think it has anything to do with age, other than age provides more opportunity to see different sorts of games, game monetization methods, and ways of designing and building games.

ZOS made it clear early on that this game was going to go the direction they wanted, and not follow genre tropes blindly. I don't think it is "outdated" as much as "not following the herd". It is a little refreshing, actually.

As for monetization, I have no really objection to cash shops, so long as they are not selling preference or shortcuts. I want to be able to play the game with everyone else and not have the cash shop involved. Cosmetics and non-game-play stuff are fine, for games that are not built on that. The ESO cash shop sells shortcuts, so no, not a fan of the ESO cash shop.

Crown Crates can rot in hell. I see them as an analog of the villains from so many fairy tales, luring the children (figuratively speaking) with candy and cakes.

Loot boxes have no place in games, unless that is the purpose of the game. (edit: and the studios know this, given how they keep coming up with new ways to say "loot box" without using those words)

Gracous · March 2021

My first MMO was Ultima Online. I then went to Dark Age of Camelot, then to ESO. I can remember when Atari first released their console then Colecovision then Sega Genesis. That should give you an idea how old I am

)
I can remember when the Vic 20 and Commodore 64 were released. I have been gaming a long time like some of the other people in this thread.
I don't mind the paywall that a lot of the items are behind. They don't make or break the game for me so I usually don't buy them. Most of the items don't change the game experience for me so I don't bother with them.
This is a hobby for me so like any hobby I have to temper my spending around it. I usually get the new chapters that come out once a year and ESO+ and that's about it.

Sarannah · March 2021

Ohw great... the one time I actually do score above average! *sigh*

MMO's are totally different from singleplayer games. They are not a one-time-buy type of game, as they have server and maintenance costs. So the original MMO payments were monthly because of this. Since then the genre has evolved, but it will still be MMORPG. Which you cannot compare to other games, as MMORPG's are meant to be played for years on end. Meaning the developer can't just make a main story, and be done with it. They actually have to develop progress, and daily/weekly content to keep players engaged. MMO's also need to be solo and group compatible, as both sides are equally important. If one side falls, the MMO dies.
The price of items being sold in the stores, is based on the general conversion rates in those regions. So for some countries everything seems expensive, while for others it seems cheap. But the items sold by ZOS are in line with the prices the other gamecompanies have for their stores. So this is acceptable. Pay-to-win is unacceptable in my opinion.

As I am above the average age you state, I can tell you MMO's have evolved quite a bit from the original/older MMO's. But this is hard to see from a younger person's perspective, as all those things are 'standard' now. To point out one obvious thing: Questmarkers that show you where to go. The first few MMO's didn't have this, you had to read the quests and follow the clues to get there. Which could get you lost for hours. And not just for the quest objectives, it worked the same with turning in the quests to the right NPC. Searching all over town. Some others: Losing all items on death(corpseruns), deleveling, server resets, days of downtime, no endgame, etc. This was after logging in with a 56k dialing modem for which we had to unplug our phonelines.

And I'm not even that old!

Belegnole · March 2021

I don't think age has all that much to do with what one tolerates. If one was to generalize; older people have had more time to conclude what they are willing to deal with. While younger people just except the situation. Of course since it's a generalization it's probably wrong anyway. Just like the statistics from super data are probably wrong.

I have always gotten a laugh out of the thought that there weren't any "Old" gamers in whatever game I was playing. Gaming as it is today got here because of the old timers. You don't really think that they stopped playing do you? No, they're just continuing to have fun. Without telling everyone that they are here.

I decided at a young age that if growing up was becoming old and cranky like my dad and his cronies, I just wasn't going to do it. At 57 I still get comments about it and it makes me happy.... lol

AlextheMuspel · March 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Again, as someone who has hundreds of games on steam, consoles, and portable consoles, gaming has evolved SO MUCH beyond the MMORPG genre. For anyone who plays games outside of the MMORPG genre, it's clear as crystal how some of the systems in ESO are outdated. "Other MMORPG did the same thing" is not a valid excuse anymore. Unless MMORPG is the only genre that player ever played, for decades even.

First, I don't think it has anything to do with age, other than age provides more opportunity to see different sorts of games, game monetization methods, and ways of designing and building games.

ZOS made it clear early on that this game was going to go the direction they wanted, and not follow genre tropes blindly. I don't think it is "outdated" as much as "not following the herd". It is a little refreshing, actually.

As for monetization, I have no really objection to cash shops, so long as they are not selling preference or shortcuts. I want to be able to play the game with everyone else and not have the cash shop involved. Cosmetics and non-game-play stuff are fine, for games that are not built on that. The ESO cash shop sells shortcuts, so no, not a fan of the ESO cash shop.

Crown Crates can rot in hell. I see them as an analog of the villains from so many fairy tales, luring the children (figuratively speaking) with candy and cakes. Loot boxes have no place in games, unless that is the purpose of the game.

When I say "outdated", I was referring to the new single-player games rather than other MMORPG. To be honest, the entire MMORPG genre feels outdated in terms of design. As you can see in this thread, I'm apparently the youngest, despite not being so young myself. There would be no reason for game companies to cater to the younger audience or update the design if what they have now is sufficient for most players.

ZOS' direction, as it seems to me, is getting closer and closer to other MMORPG instead of innovating. However, that's exactly the problem since other MMORPG could also use some innovation. I hope I could see some real effort. But no, there's no reason for them to improve if the current audience is satisfied with the current state of the game.

AcadianPaladin · March 2021

I'd caution against generalizing based on age. One thing I've learned over many decades is that nice people tend to grow into old nice people and jerks tend to grow in old jerks. Certainly I've found that to be the case when in comes to tolerating perceived varying degrees of customer service.

Even the tech thing is not all that age relevant. I know loads of fellow seniors that are way tech savvy - unlike myself.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · March 2021

I'm 74 and I ignore a great deal of the game. All the silly sets you accumulate are useless and as I make all my own stuff, nothing I will pay to use.

I made a base, which appears be uncommon, because this is an MMO and I like to role play. I have crafters, each with their own little thing going on, some at quite low levels. They craft everything I use, and as they are max leveled in their craft, do Master Writs for fun.

What they really do is make me completely independent of the stupidities they keep trying to inflict on us. I don't care I'm not playing that game.

As for the Crown Store etc, I quit for 5 years over that POS. I returned after winning Eve and looking to play something very different. I have made 2 new chars, leveled one, and am leveling my first MagNecro. Because I can equip my people very well, have a pretty good stack of gold, and know what I'm doing, my chars are pretty OP. Although they have nerfed the game a lot, so no ones feelings will be hurt, I play it as a no death game. I care about that, so my low level has only died a couple of times in 25 levels.

My new StamSorc is leveled and plays in Dungeons. Oh yeah I solo the game. Hell is other people.

Ringing_Nirnroot · March 2021

It’s usually teenager trolls who bring up politics and hate bait, etc

AlextheMuspel · March 2021

Belegnole wrote: »

I don't think age has all that much to do with what one tolerates. If one was to generalize; older people have had more time to conclude what they are willing to deal with. While younger people just except the situation. Of course since it's a generalization it's probably wrong anyway. Just like the statistics from super data are probably wrong.

I have always gotten a laugh out of the thought that there weren't any "Old" gamers in whatever game I was playing. Gaming as it is today got here because of the old timers. You don't really think that they stopped playing do you? No, they're just continuing to have fun. Without telling everyone that they are here.

I decided at a young age that if growing up was becoming old and cranky like my dad and his cronies, I just wasn't going to do it. At 57 I still get comments about it and it makes me happy.... lol

Where generalization exists, exceptions always co-exist. Nonetheless, exceptions do not invalidate the generalization, just like the bell curve suggests. Based on my experience, it's certainly possible for physiologically young people to be "bitter and cranky" (yep, that would be me). I have zero tolerance towards lootboxes, immoral monetizing practices, unfinished products, etc. And sometimes I wonder why people would tolerate those nonsense. One of the answers I came up with is in the original post. Based on the replies in this thread, it appears that older gamers who play the game to chill do have a higher tolerance for (intentional) design flaws.

Knockmaker · March 2021

It doesn't affect me at all. In fact, I find this whole "age gap" concept quite childish...

SidraWillowsky · March 2021

I'm 34. I don't actually think there's a whole lot of monetization in the game- the vast majority of what I see in the crown store is stuff that's purely cosmetic (emotes, hair, outfits, furnishings) and stuff you can get in-game or as daily rewards or can craft yourself (mount training, potions/poisons/soul gems, etc). There are a few things like the banker/merchant that are helpful for QoL, but again... not even close to required.

Compare that to other MMOs, where they charge for EVERYTHING.

I've got enough disposable income that I can suck it up and buy the crown store exclusive furnishings and whatnot, so I personally am unbothered.

Politics is super important to me- I'm involved at a local level and follow national politics closely. I watch CSPAN for fun and am not quite sure how I got to that point, but that should give you an idea. I have a very difficult time *not* engaging with people talking politics on zone chat, especially when the stuff they're saying is objectively wrong (ie, confusion about the role of the House vs. Senate; stuff like that where there's an operational definition or explanation).

linuxlady · March 2021

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, there's a large portion of players above 40 years-old in the ESO community. According to superdata, the average age for a mmorpg gamer in 2016 is 33. As for ESO, it is safe to assume that the Elder Scrolls IP potentially contributed to the older population's interest in the game.

As someone who's in the 18-24 age group, I can definitely feel the age gap sometimes, no matter in the game or on forum. Sometimes I wonder how old those who "debate" about irl politics in the zone chats are. Moreover, a LOT of players seem to come from the EQ era, meaning that they've probably played this genre for decades. They seem more tolerable towards the game company's monetization practices. I thought about why this is the case, and I came up with the following answer: they probably don't have much time to devote to gaming. At the moment, ESO is possibly the only game that they regularly play now, so their tolerance is higher.

Again, as someone who has hundreds of games on steam, consoles, and portable consoles, gaming has evolved SO MUCH beyond the MMORPG genre. For anyone who plays games outside of the MMORPG genre, it's clear as crystal how some of the systems in ESO are outdated. "Other MMORPG did the same thing" is not a valid excuse anymore. Unless MMORPG is the only genre that player ever played, for decades even.

Open for discussion: how does the age gap affect you as a younger/older player in ESO?

Get off my lawn!

SilverBride · March 2021

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

What I was saying is exactly that older players are more tolerable towards monetization practices.

I speculate it's more the fact that older mature players have more control over their spending habits and don't feel the need to have every shiny on the Crown Store. Therefore it poses no threat.

Lugaldu · March 2021

In my early 40s I don't feel old at all, but statistically I'm obviously above the average. I take those parts from ESO that interest me and ignore everything else, in this case PvP, monetization, zone chat. I play the game because of its lore and I don't feel the need to play anything else at all. Beside that, I was never interested in quantity, never wanted to have tried a hundred different games if possible. I was always very selective regarding games, which is certainly also due to the fact that I have a number of other interests beyond sitting at the PC.