LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

So you want to tell using proc sets requires more skill then trying to use your active skills on a stat based build? KEKW

How is it more skill-based when the game is only limited to 19 sets?

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Everyone can wear crimson. So why would you complain if you can wear the same sets that I can if you claim your gameplay is more skill-based?

Gameplay without procs is by definition more skill based since your healing and damage relys on your actually skills on your skill bar. If i dont press my healing skill, i wont get healing.

Proc sets do that for you. Taking damage? Crimson proc, BAM. Full HP. Not enough brain cells for a proper rotation to apply Pressure or line up a burst combo? Slot vate destro and zaan and just apply ele draim while light attacking. Freee damage.

I don't define skill as clicking things on a keyboard only. Having a wider variety of options to make better builds is included also. Knowing what combination of sets to use and what combination of skills to use on your skill bar for a PVP build.

Maybe COD should include a rifle that auto aims and fires when an enemy is around you. That's true skill right there

Yeah maybe they should, but this is ESO. Here there are armor sets and they are here for a purpose. it's not relied on your keyboard only.

And you base skill around sets? By that logic I should base skill around guns in COD then.

Crash427 wrote: »

You can't pretend limiting sets results in pure skill based combat when the classes are as imbalanced as they are.

Yeah if anything giving people the same few vanilla sets to work with really highlights the current class imbalance in PvP. Many people (myself included) are now rolling sorcs for the burst damage / shields that a lot of underpowered classes were able to make up for with various sets.

It's just a matter of time before the outcry of people who couldn't / didn't want to learn how to counter proc sets get shifted to "overpowered classes" that they also can't / won't be able to counter.

thorwyn wrote: »

It is two different "skills" you guys are talking about: strategy and tactics.
Strategy is what you are planning to do, tactics is how you actually do it. However, how much strategy is required to come up with a build that triggers certain effects is debatable in my books.

The amount of strategy needed is looking for the highest number in your excel sheet when you set the parameters for your playstyle. Test the builds before using them sure.

There is zero skill needed to theorycraft builds, there is zero skill needed to utilize proc damage. OP was claiming making a build requires skill, I think everyone else here questions that.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

finehair wrote: »

When sheer venom got buffed I used it on my stamcro alongside hunters venom before it nerfed.
The skillful play of spamming poison injection to people from keep walls and watch them melt down even though their heals was legendary.
Those guys should learn to play right?

Yeah, they should learn to play cause I never die like that to procs.

Probably because you had 40-50k health because you don't need offensive stats when you use procs yourself. They are a carry in every aspect of your build, because of what they give you for free. For a stat build that needs offensive stats there was no counter. Yes you can slot a purge only to spend 5k magicka to have the same dots applied back on you a few seconds after. Hopefully you can at least agree they were unbalanced?

Seraphayel wrote: »

Bodycounter wrote: »

In my opinion the no proc set time in PvP really shows the classes that are inherently good or bad in their current state. This way it should be alot easier to buff certain classes that were only able to stay relevant due to some specific set combinations. Every class (*) should be viable on its own without proc sets needed. You can implement the sets after taking this into consideration again.

(*) a good example would be Magicka Nightblade that has become nonexistent since proc sets have been disabled

This. No proc sets allows for skillful play (proc sets don’t require any skill, they just fire off at CD) and blatantly shows strengths and weaknesses of classes and who’s over- and who’s underperforming. Balancing after 3 months of no proc sets should be way easier.

Problem with that is thay have said they are planning to re-institute procs in Cyrodiil at some point. They aren't going to rebalance any classes based on a certain subset of players. If they buff magblade to be competitve in no proc Cyro, they will be OP in IC, battlegrounds, PvE, etc and everywhere else all the gear is accessible. And OP in Cyrodiil when they add back a proc campaign(s).

Nope. We're just going to have to play with certain classes dominating in Cyro for a minimum of six more months. This is the way ZOS wants it. They have spoken. Care to predict what classes will be playing in no proc campaigns vs proc camapigns? It's not hard.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

finehair wrote: »

When sheer venom got buffed I used it on my stamcro alongside hunters venom before it nerfed.
The skillful play of spamming poison injection to people from keep walls and watch them melt down even though their heals was legendary.
Those guys should learn to play right?

Yeah, they should learn to play cause I never die like that to procs.

Probably because you had 40-50k health because you don't need offensive stats when you use procs yourself. They are a carry in every aspect of your build, because of what they give you for free. For a stat build that needs offensive stats there was no counter. Yes you can slot a purge only to spend 5k magicka to have the same dots applied back on you a few seconds after. Hopefully you can at least agree they were unbalanced?

No, I was using stat-based builds before procs and still didn't die to procs like that. I did die like that when I was a noob.

You don't need purge btw, your heals should be enough.

Can I agree proc sets are unbalanced? No. Some sets in the game are purposely made to be stronger like the elite gear that you can buy in Cyrodiil vendors, so if you are asking for balance or "justice" you asking for something that will never be done.

Heals aren't enough to heal 80-100k worth dots applied from one skill especially if applied by multiple people. Besides the only classes that can out heal a few procs in one go are those who also utilise them the best. Warden for example.

Which elite gear is stronger than the most oppressive proc sets? I'm trying to think of a set that's very strong atm acquired from cyrodill... Alessian? Elf bane? Alessian is only helpful because of the proc meta. I don't think it would be as popular otherwise. I acquire everything from GS I don't even know where most of them are sourced most the time now.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Yeah that is what player skill means, I definitely agree. Having to manually do all your damage and healing without ZOS's intervention.

Sure, but in this regard what exactly is the difference between Zaan's and an Enchantment or Alchemical Poison?

You picked one of the least abusive proc sets as an example. Poisons and enchantments can be hard countered. I can slot a purge and just remove poisons immediately. I can also have poison resistance if I choose to. Hard counter. Enchantments have a cooldown unless you run torug's or infused or both. But even infused, enchantments can't suddenly bring you from 1% hp to 75% hp like proc sets cant . You have to invest into making enchantments stronger, but you can only pick one enchantment per weapon: shock, disease, poison, etc. You can run into someone who can resist poison damage nullifying your enchantment. You can stack proc sets ontop of each other, and just watch them do the work for you while you spam a heal or dodge or block.

There is no "proc resistance" in the game. There is no such stat, nor is there anything we can slot that hard counters a proc from going off or reducing it's effectiveness. Whether a player is unkillable or not wearing procs isn't the important part of the issue, it is that if there is a playstyle that exists, and the game provides no available hard counter, then it is broken. Imagine if ZOS removed all purge abilities from the game. DoTs would be insanely broken regardless of how much damage they do. You would just stack them, then wait. During Scalebreaker, DoTs were overturned, but you could run purge and hard counter them. No hard counter to procs that currently exists in the game.

If I'm wearing Zaan and you're fighting me...how would you prevent me from using Zaan against you? A soft counter right?

This post simply doesn't make sense. Game knowledge, positioning, mechanics, teamwork, are real skills. Knowing what set works and what set doesn't is a part of game knowledge. So yes, it is technically a skill, but simply putting on XYZ sets isn't a skill. Anyone can do that. In this no proc environment, game knowledge in set strength still applies, as you need to know what the BiS sets are for your specific class. Theory-crafting exists as long as there are 4 or more sets in the game ( you need to know the BiS 2 sets of the 4), so this no proc environment does not diminish that "skill" in any way.

What's absurd is putting theory-crafting above every other skill. Yea you can probably theory-craft better setups in a normal environment, but what use do they have when you die 3 seconds into a fight because you have 0 game knowledge, 0 positioning, 0 mechanics, and 0 teamwork? What use do they have when you lack the competence to play the game? The easiest way to confirm this argument is by going into BG. There are plenty of PvE players who wear meta builds theorycrafted by other PvPers, but they still die 5 seconds into a fight because they don't have any PvP experience.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

We wanted a lag-free Cyrodill, but instead, you're making it completely unplayable by disabling proc sets and increasing the lag.

You are limiting the armor sets to 19 only because some people don't have the skills or knowledge to use a wider variety of armor sets. You're turning this game into a skill-less Call of Duty game.

You're forcing players who spent a lot of hours into making a PVP build and golding out their armor sets to throw out their builds for six months and not play. Is that what you want? A skill-less MMO?

Unplayable without procs? Lol. That's a good one.