Maintenance for the week of August 24:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – August 24
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – August 24
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 12.1.3 is available.
I dont think I'm cut out for this anymore
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MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »A lot of people for whom changes impact their playstyle feel the same way, and combined with the performance issues since Markarth, the end-game community hasn't been as lively as before. For the last couple of years we've had meta changing, then reverting, then changing, then reverting again patch after patch, and it has gotten people who care about optmizing their builds tired. For the majority of the playerbase who play more casually these don't matter, so they won't care as much since they can play the same as before, so it's not a general feeling, even though it might seem so. But personally, the excitement of going in the PTS and checking everything has been worn out; it's crazy to have to readjust, grind, farm every patch, only to get to progress right at the time when new changes are announced... I get that as an MMO they have to keep up the interest, but combat has been through such a roller coaster ride (mainly because they can't fix performance, so they're cutting corners and butchering combat in an effort to improve it) that long-time players (who are in it for the combat) are feeling 'meh'. It's a pity because people tend to focus on how the stories are awesome in ESO, whereas imo, it's its beautiful combat system that makes it stand out.
Yes I agree
This PTS does not in anyway feel like two years of passionate work but more like an unfinished mess.
They cut corners during the supposed year of performance and it was an immediate disaster. It took a long time for the game to even get back to a somewhat stable place. Now they’re doing this again with the CP 2.0 overhaul.
I can completely understand many players negative reactions..., Especially, after investing so much time and money into a social game over a half decade.
It is not that people do not like change, they’re just tired of ZOS always choosing the sledgehammer over tweaking things when it comes to ESO.
But they literally told us when they halted CP cap increases that the Champion System was going to be given a complete overhaul. It shouldn't be a surprise now that they took a sledgehammer to it because they told us well in advance they would do so.
And frankly it needed a sledgehammer approach because there was no way just tweaking the original system was going to be remotely passible.
Yeah honestly.. how do we expect them to chisel away at the CP system to the state it's at now. That doesn't make any sense. Do it in 1 go so people can adjust accordingly. I've been waiting this CP rework for years, it's about damn time we have something to work towards rather than just collecting new sets and money. I'm not even referring to the veritical progression of getting stronger, but horizontal aspect where we can level higher to simply have more options available to us at any given time, instead of respeccing for different scenario's.
Although, you can respec if you still don't have enough points.1 -
NoSoup✭✭✭✭✭I don't see what the issue is.
There have been far bigger overhauls and the playerbase still survives, if anything I see this a move back towards the good old days of VR12 - VR16.
But its the usual story, first week of PTS and players saying they're going to jump ship without even really giving things a go.....Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....2 -
Gulnagel✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »Sorry, but this is one of the best changes they've ever made to the game. I can't wait to see what the future holds for the combat system if this is what they're working with, it's bugged right now so people should hold off from parses until it's addressed.
The power on paper looks to be about the same, but better in a lot of areas, like our health and off resource are much higher, while our main resource seems to be about the same.
This has fantastic effects on pvp and pve where we no longer feel strapped for resources from something we can't really invest into. Eg, magicka light armor players in pvp are no longer required to use sets like Shacklebreaker just to reliably break free or roll dodge.
I can't help but be annoyed by players that just "don't like change" as if progressing the combat system is such a bad thing. Would you prefer no changes? The game hasn't changed enough in the ways that matter. Nerfing sets and abilities patch to patch is what you're okay with, but making CP work better for the future of the game and cutting back on it's overall power, but allowing it to expand is some how a bad thing? I don't understand this mentality, as someone who is somewhat above the level cap at 1150, I will gladly take an arrow to the knee for other players to easily catch up to my "VET" level. They could make the exp 50,000 to level up from 1-1000 and I'd be happy and I feel no attachment to my investment. If people are still at 600/700 cp right now, I imagine they're going to quickly catch up to me and I could care less.
Honestly the game sucked 6 years ago. You can go back and watch numerous reviews. This is that internet mentality of nostolgia for anything that progresses year to year. I can't stand it. If you watched the stream, you can tell how proud they are of their accomplishments that they were tasked with when their dev team was updated. I think they've done a great job and I'm happy to see where things go.
I'm not okay with them changing sets and tweaking as much as they have done over the years since it never settles, there is always movement one way or the other. It would be nice with smaller tweaks and changes but it's so drastic everytime.
And when you speak about players catching upp to your level do you mean your CP or your level as a player? Because CP does not help people clear veteran content now, you still get lightattacking 810CP players. And CP certantly wont help players with the new system if damage is even harder to do.
I could probably pull higher damage than majority CP 810 if I was CP 400, just because of my knowlege in rotation ect. And I'm talking about the casual CP players, the ones that are the biggesr audience in this game.
Only way to really make this game more equal would be to stream line it, remove 80% of the skills, no one uses them, remove 80% of the sets, no one uses them. Also remove la-weaving and put a GCD o. Skills.
In fact make it like FfXIV:ARR, I've never had trouble with PUGs there, because everyone got their role, their skills, and tokens to buy armor, upgrade armor to a certain level to be allowed to que for harder content. And since there are no la-weaving it's more about the order you activate skills not how fast you do it, and ofcourse understanding of mechanics.
I get where you coming from but the game does not know what it want to be.
I guess I wasn't very clear, I mean CP level as in I'm not going to be upset to see players at 1000 cp the first week of the patch when it seemingly took me 2 years to reach that point. They can invalidate all my exp gain for all I care, the new system is very good for the longevity of the game, from what I'm able to test, it feels like 50% of the power is just reaching level 50 while the other 50% is from CP, instead of live where 100% of that power is only available to CP. I'm just not sure how they will actually adjust the exp curve. My hope is that 1000cp is just as easy as it is on live for 200cp and there is math to show that it very well could be.
I'd just hate for ZOS to get the wrong idea, that we don't want systems like this to be adjusted because players can't handle change when the idea of CP 2.0 is absolutely fantastic. It seems they have warped mentality when it comes to adjusting the original classes in meaningful ways, instead they get very small adjustments patch to patch while people complain about class identity.
I think the game is looking like it knows what it wants to be more and more every patch, this is definitely a changing point for the game. Most forum goers are aware of this, but they mentioned it on stream, they've been trying to course correct the game for 2 years now since the new dev team was tasked with this job. A lot of the changes over those 2 years left a lot of players scratching their head, the reality is, they don't really know how good a change will be until they release it to the game, but overall I like where the game is at this patch and it's going to make me come back to actually playing regularly.
Overall, I'm way happier with the game this patch than I was 2 + years ago, Morrowind was an awful patch, tons of broken skills, sets and stats that didn't calculate properly or pulled from the wrong damage types, etc.Only way to really make this game more equal would be to stream line it, remove 80% of the skills, no one uses them, remove 80% of the sets, no one uses them. Also remove la-weaving and put a GCD o. Skills.
You completely lost me here.. what? Thats an awful idea, we need more viability for existing skills, not less. I can't disagree more.
What I'm saying is, people talk about viability, choice and so on. But there are no real l choices if you are not a solo player. Just look at all the armor we have and tell me mothers sorrow and siroria isn't used by 95-100% of serious veteran players. Same goes for skills. We are copies runnning around does that sound like a game with choices? To me all it does is confusing new players on what to do, yes they have huge amount of skills and armor to choose from. But what is the point if they don't work. You end up in a dlc dungeon with a sword and board dps, a sorcerer with heavy armor an an ice staff and so on.
I say in FFXIV:ARR the game teaches you have to play, in ESO other players have to teach you how to properly play as a new player because it's so complicated.
So given all the "choices" you have where 90% is crap for all but solo play, can you really call it choices?2 -
DT-ARR✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »A lot of people for whom changes impact their playstyle feel the same way, and combined with the performance issues since Markarth, the end-game community hasn't been as lively as before. For the last couple of years we've had meta changing, then reverting, then changing, then reverting again patch after patch, and it has gotten people who care about optmizing their builds tired. For the majority of the playerbase who play more casually these don't matter, so they won't care as much since they can play the same as before, so it's not a general feeling, even though it might seem so. But personally, the excitement of going in the PTS and checking everything has been worn out; it's crazy to have to readjust, grind, farm every patch, only to get to progress right at the time when new changes are announced... I get that as an MMO they have to keep up the interest, but combat has been through such a roller coaster ride (mainly because they can't fix performance, so they're cutting corners and butchering combat in an effort to improve it) that long-time players (who are in it for the combat) are feeling 'meh'. It's a pity because people tend to focus on how the stories are awesome in ESO, whereas imo, it's its beautiful combat system that makes it stand out.
As a casual player I disagree with the bolded portion quite a bit. I just spent the last 5 months farming and golding out a set of divines mothers sorrow with the hope of being able to partake in higher end vet content. I completed this 4 days ago. Then i read the patch notes. I had less than 72 hours to enjoy what to my playstyle was a major accomplishment.
Even if the patch wont go live for another month...I can't even turn the game on now without feeling like all i've done is waste my time. The objective i set out to achieve almost half a year ago has now been rendered worthless.
So in short - these types of changes effect me and other casual players greatly, and arguably more than the veteran base who have the resources in gold and transmute crystals to quickly recover.
Don't gold-out anything that isn't a weapon, especially body pieces of armor. It is simply never worth the cost.
Thanks for the tip0 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭But its the usual story, first week of PTS and players saying they're going to jump ship without even really giving things a go.....
I think it's more than current pts and any future prospects. It's also the last year leading up to it. All of it together has gotten me very disenfranchised with the whole game, which really sucks. But hey, that's just the way life is sometimes.Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.6 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »A lot of people for whom changes impact their playstyle feel the same way, and combined with the performance issues since Markarth, the end-game community hasn't been as lively as before. For the last couple of years we've had meta changing, then reverting, then changing, then reverting again patch after patch, and it has gotten people who care about optmizing their builds tired. For the majority of the playerbase who play more casually these don't matter, so they won't care as much since they can play the same as before, so it's not a general feeling, even though it might seem so. But personally, the excitement of going in the PTS and checking everything has been worn out; it's crazy to have to readjust, grind, farm every patch, only to get to progress right at the time when new changes are announced... I get that as an MMO they have to keep up the interest, but combat has been through such a roller coaster ride (mainly because they can't fix performance, so they're cutting corners and butchering combat in an effort to improve it) that long-time players (who are in it for the combat) are feeling 'meh'. It's a pity because people tend to focus on how the stories are awesome in ESO, whereas imo, it's its beautiful combat system that makes it stand out.
Yes I agree
This PTS does not in anyway feel like two years of passionate work but more like an unfinished mess.
They cut corners during the supposed year of performance and it was an immediate disaster. It took a long time for the game to even get back to a somewhat stable place. Now they’re doing this again with the CP 2.0 overhaul.
I can completely understand many players negative reactions..., Especially, after investing so much time and money into a social game over a half decade.
It is not that people do not like change, they’re just tired of ZOS always choosing the sledgehammer over tweaking things when it comes to ESO.
But they literally told us when they halted CP cap increases that the Champion System was going to be given a complete overhaul. It shouldn't be a surprise now that they took a sledgehammer to it because they told us well in advance they would do so.
And frankly it needed a sledgehammer approach because there was no way just tweaking the original system was going to be remotely passible.
No it did not need to be now, especially at this time with how performance has been. Last year was barely playable.
They have made lots of promises and few have come to fruition and many others were broken. They also have rarely ever followed mass feedback, alerting them of major issues and the game has repeatedly suffered for it.
If they would tweak the game we know, improving it that would be different. They never have.
The performance that was promised last year was a fine example of what is to continue. These changes are more or less a cheap way of dealing with performance, same as they did last year.
If you were here during the Wrobel years then you would know how wild the changes have been since he left. What is currently in the PTS was not well fleshed out, certainly not two years worth of work
IMO it is not in the best interest of the players. I am also sure there will be crown store additions to help newer players get to max CP at some point.
Edited by Girl_Number8 on January 29, 2021 5:41AM6 -
JTD✭✭✭I feel you. I am tired and dizzy of all the 180degree turns. I am becoming less and less invested in it all.8 -
GrimTheReaper45✭✭✭✭✭Would like to add that I also wish we could scale back on the combat changes.
Its been a rough few years when it comes to the frequency of combat changes. Im still enjoying the more casual aspects of the game like questing or housing. However ive just kinda stopped playing pvp or attempting vet trials because I got tired of constantly having to adjust what im doing and never really getting the change to improve skill wise without combat changes rendering that progress Irrelevant. Its just very discouraging.4 -
Gulnagel✭✭✭✭GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Would like to add that I also wish we could scale back on the combat changes.
Its been a rough few years when it comes to the frequency of combat changes. Im still enjoying the more casual aspects of the game like questing or housing. However ive just kinda stopped playing pvp or attempting vet trials because I got tired of constantly having to adjust what im doing and never really getting the change to improve skill wise without combat changes rendering that progress Irrelevant. Its just very discouraging.
Exactly, minor tweaks would not throw us off the cliff like that. But what eso does is putting us at the edge of a precipice each update and push us.Edited by Gulnagel on January 29, 2021 1:22PM3 -
GrimTheReaper45✭✭✭✭✭GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Would like to add that I also wish we could scale back on the combat changes.
Its been a rough few years when it comes to the frequency of combat changes. Im still enjoying the more casual aspects of the game like questing or housing. However ive just kinda stopped playing pvp or attempting vet trials because I got tired of constantly having to adjust what im doing and never really getting the change to improve skill wise without combat changes rendering that progress Irrelevant. Its just very discouraging.
Exactly, minor tweaks would not throw us off the cliff like that. But what eso does is putting us at the edge of a precipice each update and push us.
Agreed. Id even take major changes at a less frequent rate. I just want the game to be stable for a length of time longer than 3 months.2 -
Jayroo✭✭✭✭I love how the first week of pts it's almost a silent competition on who can make the most dramatic thread.
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luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I talk about choices because that's the path they're heading and IMO it's the right path. I'm not saying it's what we've got, because it isn't. All classes and roles play roughly the same set and same CP setup. That is why this CP is a step on the right direction for me.
The same must be done with build diversity, class identity, etc.
PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk1 -
Gulnagel✭✭✭✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »I talk about choices because that's the path they're heading and IMO it's the right path. I'm not saying it's what we've got, because it isn't. All classes and roles play roughly the same set and same CP setup. That is why this CP is a step on the right direction for me.
The same must be done with build diversity, class identity, etc.
I agree with you, but one thing sets us apart.
Diversity, builds, skills should have had a good foundation from start, same with classes.
Not like this when we all play the same after 7 years and now all of the sudden they want diversity? A little to late.1 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Used to be a meta follower, was for a long time but I got fed up of a build bottleneck full of angry people
Abandoned the game for a long time then rediscovered it with rugged solo builds, built a solo hybrid Dragon Knight and I can honestly say I never enjoyed any character more. But this patch will nerf my beloved character into the ground. My limited damage will be cut in half even if they get the buffs working and resilience has gone out of the window
Will give it a try once it launches but I’m not looking forward to it and I have no hope that it will be anything other than a mess... but hey, at these the three players who still do PvP will be happy 😆2 -
Gulnagel✭✭✭✭Since I'm still on a console. Was this patch as bad as it seems. Or is it actually good?0
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Would like to add that I also wish we could scale back on the combat changes.
Its been a rough few years when it comes to the frequency of combat changes. Im still enjoying the more casual aspects of the game like questing or housing. However ive just kinda stopped playing pvp or attempting vet trials because I got tired of constantly having to adjust what im doing and never really getting the change to improve skill wise without combat changes rendering that progress Irrelevant. Its just very discouraging.
Exactly, minor tweaks would not throw us off the cliff like that. But what eso does is putting us at the edge of a precipice each update and push us.
The problem with minor tweaks is it is really hard to balance that way. You need to find the upper and lower limits first before you can find a good middle ground. And without massive changes, those limits would not be found, and rather than actual balance, you will have an underwhelming set/skill still be underwhelming, or an overperforming set/skill still be overperforming. Because that is what minor tweaks would do, they wouldn't change anything significantly enough for it to matter.0 -
honey_badger82✭✭✭✭My take on this is same as many here, I don't mind change, I don't mind the new CP system for the most part. My biggest issues with it is gating skills I need behind things I don't and the far too limited slots. IMO if they gave us a 5th slot in blue and red and made green all passive the system would be great.
My greatest issue with ZoS and all its updates is their changes every 3 months requires me to grind at least 1 new set but usually much more than that. Even golding out just weapons over 13 characters takes more resources than I can collect in the 3 months between each change.
It looks like the reconstruction system and the increase in raw materials + refine chance increase will ease these every few month changes however it's still needs work. Deconstructing any gold item should give at minimum 50% of the upgrade material back with max decon ranks. This combined with the increased raw materials (50% chance for double), refine chance increase (approximately +10%) and reconstruction system would make the changes every patch so so so much more palatable.1 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭So with this new system if you were at the 810 cap before the patch you now have to grind 600 levels of cp to be able to compete in cp pvp against anyone with half a brain. Nobody wants to do that grind. and there are posts explaining how we have been robbed of like 50% of the experience we've grinded because they've made each cp level less exp to grind to though didn't adjust people's cp to what exp amount they have previously grinded to. This is the huge issue with the patch. Nobody wants to have to grind hundreds of levels of exp to meet not even meet the new cap but rather just to be relevant in the endgame content they enjoy. 200 levels sure that's fine. But needing to grind 600 levels while the experience I was robbed of would put me at 400 levels above where I currently am? No dude I quit. The devs clearly do not play their own game and I don't want to be punished for it anymore.
Edit: clarityEdited by nublife01 on March 10, 2021 7:51PM2 -
honey_badger82✭✭✭✭So with this new system if you were at the 810 cap before the patch you now have to grind 600 levels of cp to be able to compete in cp pvp against anyone with half a brain. Nobody wants to do that grind. and there are posts explaining how we have been robbed of like 50% of the experience we've grinded because they've made each cp level less exp to grind to though didn't adjust people's cp to what exp amount they have previously grinded to. This is the huge issue with the patch. Nobody wants to have to grind hundreds of levels of exp to meet not even meet the new cap but rather just to be relevant in the endgame content they enjoy. 200 levels sure that's fine. But needing to grind 600 levels while the experience I was robbed of would put me at 400 levels above where I currently am? No dude I quit. The devs clearly do not play their own game and I don't want to be punished for it anymore.
Edit: clarity
I am at 932 and have been saving my enlightenment for almost 2 weeks now, just doing daily crafting and working 2 characters not at 50 yet. I had 4.3 mil as of yesterday and will be max before console sees the update.
What really irks me is they knew without a shadow of a doubt that they were going to the new system and the xp curve would need to be adjusted. They could of easily implemented the new xp curve a month ago allowing us to start the grind early. That would of given us at least something. Instead they left it as it was so we could inch along gaining maybe 1 level a day. Had they done a quick patch within a week of releasing the U29 notes we could be a few hundred levels further along the moment the update hit.1 -
Gulnagel✭✭✭✭GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Would like to add that I also wish we could scale back on the combat changes.
Its been a rough few years when it comes to the frequency of combat changes. Im still enjoying the more casual aspects of the game like questing or housing. However ive just kinda stopped playing pvp or attempting vet trials because I got tired of constantly having to adjust what im doing and never really getting the change to improve skill wise without combat changes rendering that progress Irrelevant. Its just very discouraging.
Exactly, minor tweaks would not throw us off the cliff like that. But what eso does is putting us at the edge of a precipice each update and push us.
The problem with minor tweaks is it is really hard to balance that way. You need to find the upper and lower limits first before you can find a good middle ground. And without massive changes, those limits would not be found, and rather than actual balance, you will have an underwhelming set/skill still be underwhelming, or an overperforming set/skill still be overperforming. Because that is what minor tweaks would do, they wouldn't change anything significantly enough for it to matter.
I agree that it's hard to balance a game with minor tweaks and that is the point of the original post. Meaning it's Okey to do big big changes in the beginning of a games lifecykle but 7-8 years in? Thats where you should have a strong foundation and minor tweaks should be the only way to go.1 -
Bodycounter✭✭✭✭As a casual player I disagree with the bolded portion quite a bit. I just spent the last 5 months farming and golding out a set of divines mothers sorrow with the hope of being able to partake in higher end vet content. I completed this 4 days ago. Then i read the patch notes. I had less than 72 hours to enjoy what to my playstyle was a major accomplishment.
So in short - these types of changes effect me and other casual players greatly, and arguably more than the veteran base who have the resources in gold and transmute crystals to quickly recover.
What exactly are you talking about? Mother's Sorrow is still one of the best Magicka DPS sets. Crit has been nerfed for everyone to tune down the damage. That's all. You can still play with your golded set without any drawbacks because everyone is playing the same patch as you.
On top of that the changes are actually good for more casual players. You have gained base stats and have easier access to champion points. The absolute high-end DPS have been tuned down whereas casual DPS have increased with this patch. Light armor has been flat out buffed and become even stronger for you, you can even equip Daggers or Swords now if you feel like it!
I have actually zero idea what people are talking about at this point. You guys just hate changes for the sake of hating something. The only bad thing in this update for me is the green champion point tree and that's pretty much it.
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