This gets worse and worse.

Fajin · March 2021

starkerealm wrote: »

Now, it's not the mythic you want. Which is how a lot of BoP gear works. Just like how you can't get some of the DLC dungeon sets unless you actually go in there and run those dungeons.

If I want a BoP from a DLC dungeon I need to have that DLC. This is fair.

If I want a BoP from Greymoor I need to have other DLCs apart from Greymoor. I don't think this is fair.

starkerealm · March 2021

Nightowl_74 wrote: »

It seems standard to me as far as paying for the newest chapters. Other subscription based MMO's I've played have been the same (not saying they all are, just the ones I'm experienced with) and you pay somewhere around forty bucks for each expansion. That being said, ESO pops them out at about twice the rate of the other games and what should or shouldn't be in the cash shop is another matter. However, I think ESO is also the only one that allows existing subscription holders to eventually have access to that content for free after the next ones is released.

Destiny is a similar frequency of expansions, but the content is far more limited. You're paying more for far less game.

ghost_bg_ESO · March 2021

i didn't keep too much attention to antiques, but for me this is first time new chapter/dlc that requires access to dlc's locked behind pay wall (for not high-end players). every quest before that requires player to go at other zone was in base game. maelstorm weapons is kind of on the edge, but i don't consider them as necessity before high-end.

Kiralyn2000 · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Now, it's not the mythic you want. Which is how a lot of BoP gear works. Just like how you can't get some of the DLC dungeon sets unless you actually go in there and run those dungeons.

If I want a BoP from a DLC dungeon I need to have that DLC. This is fair.

If I want a BoP from Greymoor I need to have other DLCs apart from Greymoor. I don't think this is fair.

But it's not a "BoP from Greymoor". Greymoor added the Antiquities game mechanic (like other chapters added trait changing, or battlegrounds, or jewelcrafting, or. . .) Some of the Antiquities you can find are in DLC. Ok, and?

Monte_Cristo · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Where is it written that I didn't pay for the mythic items?

In Greymoor's description on the site it is stated "Uncover Tamriel’s History – Recover lost artifacts across all of Tamriel with the new Antiquities system." that doesn't tell me I need to pay fro it more.

For example 2 years ago (I believe) I bought Summerset chapter that had jewelry crafting in it that comes with the chapter. Since I paid for the chapter I get the system and I don't need to pay anything else for it, i can craft rings to my heart's content.

If jewelry crafting isn't locked by DLC locations then why the Antiquities are?

It doesn't tell you you DON'T need to pay for more, either. And crafting jewelry items in DLC zones is still locked behind paying for those zones.

Goregrinder · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Your argument is that if I pay one fee, I get access to 100% of everything. That's not how it works. This is an a la carte pay model. You pay for the things you want access to, and you don't get access to the things you don't pay for. What you've paid so far was basic access to login to the game (Base game price), and paid for the latest chapter (current part of the base game story). Mythic items are not included in those purchases.

You've gone 2 steps deep, but there's a 3rd step that leads you to mythic items. So you're at 2/3 right now.

Where is it written that I didn't pay for the mythic items?

In Greymoor's description on the site it is stated "Uncover Tamriel’s History – Recover lost artifacts across all of Tamriel with the new Antiquities system." that doesn't tell me I need to pay fro it more.

For example 2 years ago (I believe) I bought Summerset chapter that had jewelry crafting in it that comes with the chapter. Since I paid for the chapter I get the system and I don't need to pay anything else for it, i can craft rings to my heart's content.

If jewelry crafting isn't locked by DLC locations then why the Antiquities are?

Yes, you don't need to pay extra to unlock the excavation and scrying skill lines. You are 100% correct that those two skill lines were part of your Greymoor purchase.

What does that have to do with the Ring of the Pale Order? That mythic item wasn't apart of your Greymoor purchase, nor is every future mythic item that comes out after the Markarth DLC.

that is like saying "Well I paid for the Destruction staff skill line with the base game, why can't I gain access to the maelstrom arena inferno staff?!?! Why do I need to pay more for something I already paid for?!?!"... you didn't. the base game unlocks the base skills for you, but future items that utilize said skill are not included in that purchase. It's the same deal here.

starkerealm · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Now, it's not the mythic you want. Which is how a lot of BoP gear works. Just like how you can't get some of the DLC dungeon sets unless you actually go in there and run those dungeons.

If I want a BoP from a DLC dungeon I need to have that DLC. This is fair.

If I want a BoP from Greymoor I need to have other DLCs apart from Greymoor. I don't think this is fair.

No, the BoPs in Kyne's Aegis are, you know, in Kyne's Aegis. No other unlocks or purchases required.

Even when it comes to the Mythics, there are at least four which are entirely bundled into the Greymoor (and base game), or just, simply, base game across the board. (Or require you to claim the IC for free in the store.) (This is before you remember that you also have access to the Stranglers because you have Summerset.)

That's one of the weird things here. The Reach, without buying it, literally added a new Mythic for you to chase and complete.

The only Mythic that requires multiple DLCs is The Ring of the Pale Order. All the others mix a single DLC zone with base game zones (I'm counting IC as base game for this because it's free). This creates the weird situation where a lot of the Mythics are effectively just DLC gated to a single release. Thrassian Stranglers is a Mythic, and as a result, you're going to have to use scrying and excavation, but it's effectively a Summerset BoP. Snowtreaders are (effectively) a Greymoor BoP, Ring of the Wild Hunt is a Murkmire BoP, ect.

Yeah, the one exception here is, if you want Pale Order, you're going to need Wrothgar and The Reach. It's dual.

Again, I posted the list earlier, as to which mythics require which DLCs. I would recommend, if you're going to chase a mythic, check and find out if you can actually complete it before you spend a lot of time farming leads. However, this is a system that was supposed to span past and future content, and that's reflected here.

starkerealm · March 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

What does that have to do with the Ring of the Pale Order? That mythic item wasn't apart of your Greymoor purchase, nor is every future mythic item that comes out after the Markarth DLC.

Pale Order didn't even exist. I will say, as the only item in the game, it is unfortunate that Ring of the Pale Order is as good as it is. If it were an easy to ignore, highly situational item, no problem. But, it's a very strong pick for solo arenas, and a lot of high end content, and as a result, having it gated behind Greymoor, Wrothgar, and The Reach, does make it pretty easy to fling around accusations of P2W.

Now, do I think it's a P2W item? No, not really. It is a very strong piece of gear, and one that I'll continue to use, but if the triple gate had been the Bloodlord's Embrace or Snow Treaders, I doubt we'd see as much angst on the subject now.

virtus753 · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Fajin wrote: »

Aside from everything I just can't believe how nobody except 1 person (other than me) sees a problem in this.

That's because you're about a year late to the party. We knew Greymoor was not going to grant access to every single antiquity at this point last year.

Here's one example from April last year:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524634/utilizing-the-antiquities-system-demands-access-to-every-story-dlc

But then the problem is that everybody is fine with that. How?! The only reason I see for people excusing this is making their money spent on ESO+ or DLCs worthy. It's like being in denial or something. I'm just done.

Just because people have stopped actively speaking on a subject doesn't mean they are "fine" with it. I'm not "fine" with Lambert's decision not to honor our vet arena weapons. But it's a done deal. It's been a done deal for ages. They can't go back and redo that decision (not that their language ever suggested they'd ever be open to such a thing in the least). Nor, practically speaking, are they able to go back and change where antiquities come from now. (Not, again, that they ever suggested they were interested in that. Quite the opposite, actually.)

We deal with it. That means different things for different people. I haven't set foot in Maelstrom or Dragonstar since they declined to honor our vet weapons as vet weapons. I also stopped buying crowns. I realize that I'm mostly only shafting myself (however infinitesimal an amount) by refusing to go after those 666 Critical Unicorns on the back bar of the Perfected MA bow, but I'm not fine with what they did, and that's how I'm choosing to deal with it. Yet despite what I still feel is something for which I have very few civil words (and I'm a philologist by training), I'm not going throw away my enjoyment of other elements of the game or my social relationships and responsibilities in game over a decision made by one man. He lost his company a lot of my respect and money, and that's where I'm leaving it. Other people, meanwhile, weren't bothered by the arena weapon decision in the least. I don't think any less of them for that. They have their own experiences and perspectives, and they're entitled to form their own opinions and to make their own decisions. Many people kept playing as before, regardless of how they felt, while others stopped subbing or playing entirely. Same with the antiquities system. Some are actually fine with it, but others kept playing despite it or refused to buy the chapter because of it. How you choose to feel about and deal with this antiquities situation is up to you. Regardless, there is no practical chance it is going to be changed at this point, and saying that others must be akin to being "in denial" and that it's a "problem" if they don't agree with your outrage and speak out with you isn't fair or productive.

Sergykid · March 2021

p2w is only on chapter because the only way to acquire a specific power that will give you an advantage, is the pay real money for the chapter. Mythics are disgusting and broken and should have never been added into the game. And i mainly talk about the malacath band in pvp which without you are gimping yourself, or wild hunt ring which helps everyone both in pvp to run or in pve to farm much faster than others.

i also talked about it here
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555980/is-it-that-difficult-to-get-explanations-from-the-combat-balance-team

virtus753 · March 2021

Sergykid wrote: »

p2w is only on chapter because the only way to acquire a specific power that will give you an advantage, is the pay real money for the chapter. Mythics are disgusting and broken and should have never been added into the game. And i mainly talk about the malacath band in pvp which without you are gimping yourself, or wild hunt ring which helps everyone both in pvp to run or in pve to farm much faster than others.

i also talked about it here
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555980/is-it-that-difficult-to-get-explanations-from-the-combat-balance-team

Amusingly, running Malacath or Wild Hunt in PvP for the next two quarters at least will be gimping yourself:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7149943/#Comment_7149943

starkerealm · March 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

p2w is only on chapter because the only way to acquire a specific power that will give you an advantage, is the pay real money for the chapter. Mythics are disgusting and broken and should have never been added into the game. And i mainly talk about the malacath band in pvp which without you are gimping yourself, or wild hunt ring which helps everyone both in pvp to run or in pve to farm much faster than others.

i also talked about it here
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555980/is-it-that-difficult-to-get-explanations-from-the-combat-balance-team

Amusingly, running Malacath or Wild Hunt in PvP for the next two quarters at least will be gimping yourself:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7149943/#Comment_7149943

Yeah, still happy about that.

kargen27 · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Your argument is that if I pay one fee, I get access to 100% of everything. That's not how it works. This is an a la carte pay model. You pay for the things you want access to, and you don't get access to the things you don't pay for. What you've paid so far was basic access to login to the game (Base game price), and paid for the latest chapter (current part of the base game story). Mythic items are not included in those purchases.

You've gone 2 steps deep, but there's a 3rd step that leads you to mythic items. So you're at 2/3 right now.

Where is it written that I didn't pay for the mythic items?

In Greymoor's description on the site it is stated "Uncover Tamriel’s History – Recover lost artifacts across all of Tamriel with the new Antiquities system." that doesn't tell me I need to pay fro it more.

For example 2 years ago (I believe) I bought Summerset chapter that had jewelry crafting in it that comes with the chapter. Since I paid for the chapter I get the system and I don't need to pay anything else for it, i can craft rings to my heart's content.

If jewelry crafting isn't locked by DLC locations then why the Antiquities are?

There are sets with jewelry locked behind DLCs. Are you suggesting you should have access to those rings and necklaces because you can craft jewelry?

Fajin · March 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

There are sets with jewelry locked behind DLCs. Are you suggesting you should have access to those rings and necklaces because you can craft jewelry?

No this is in fact fine. What I am saying is that if a ring form the set was in the base game but the necklace was in DLC - this would have been wrong.

I wouldn't have trouble with a mythic item which has ALL its parts from a DLC. I am not fine with a mythic having part of it in base game part of it in DLC.

Nairinhe · March 2021

TL;DR: "I want a particular item and was teased by parts of that item being available, and now I'm trying to justify being pissed off by the parts that are not available to me."

Just wait for the free week.
BTW, if mythics were entirely within DLC zones it would be harder to farm them within a limited trial period.

starkerealm · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

There are sets with jewelry locked behind DLCs. Are you suggesting you should have access to those rings and necklaces because you can craft jewelry?

No this is in fact fine. What I am saying is that if a ring form the set was in the base game but the necklace was in DLC - this would have been wrong.

I wouldn't have trouble with a mythic item which has ALL its parts from a DLC. I am not fine with a mythic having part of it in base game part of it in DLC.

But, that's the exact situation for the jewelry set crafting stations in base game zones... part of it is in DLC (Summerset), and part of it is in the station in front of you...

Scardan · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

No.

There is different kinds of advantages. Someone making more gold per hour is not "pay -to- win" because its not affecting your in any way.

You can buys crowns for gold, which give you DLC, which usually have better sets than normal game. Also a person dosen't have to farm a lot of things if he has gold.

See, it is not pay to win since you can buy it for gold. Gold farming rate does not matter anyway. How is it even an advantage when I get today 1k more gold then you in terms of winning the game and dominating in PvP and PvE? DLC sets are not giving you absolute advantage over base game ones, therefore it is not pay to win either. There are also free ESO+ weeks, where you can get DLC gear. Most overland and crafted sets from DLCs can be bought from guild stores or players directly or even being crafted for free for you if you provide materials. There is nothing to stop you from progressing in this game in comparison to pay to win games, where you really suffer if you not buy this OP set of weapons from in game cash shop.

Ring of wild hunt is not must have, you have mounts, for example. This half a second to get from mount and half second to mount again is not a winning advantage.

Nairinhe · March 2021

Scardan wrote: »

Fajin wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

No.

There is different kinds of advantages. Someone making more gold per hour is not "pay -to- win" because its not affecting your in any way.

You can buys crowns for gold, which give you DLC, which usually have better sets than normal game. Also a person dosen't have to farm a lot of things if he has gold.

See, it is not pay to win since you can buy it for gold. Gold farming rate does not matter anyway. How is it even an advantage when I get today 1k more gold then you in terms of winning the game and dominating in PvP and PvE? DLC sets are not giving you absolute advantage over base game ones, therefore it is not pay to win either. There are also free ESO+ weeks, where you can get DLC gear. Most overland and crafted sets from DLCs can be bought from guild stores or players directly or even being crafted for free for you if you provide materials. There is nothing to stop you from progressing in this game in comparison to pay to win games, where you really suffer if you not buy this OP set of weapons from in game cash shop.

Ring of wild hunt is not must have, you have mounts, for example. This half a second to get from mount and half second to mount again is not a winning advantage.

Wild Hunt greatly saved my potato butt during MYM, just saying. But it's definitely not a must have or a P2W item.

barney2525 · March 2021

I'm missing Something about this conversation. You said you were going to break down and buy ESO+ for the craft bag.

That's fine. But in doing so, if you have bought Greymor (or however you spell it) and If you have ESO+ you have access to ALL the prior DLCs. So I don't understand what the issue is.

TwinLamps · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

I have complained about the Craft bag. Ok, I now agree that it is fair to buys ESO+.

ESO+ does not have a regional price for my region. Ok it's worse than normal but I can try to afford it in the future.

And now when I started collecting Mythic items I see that I need DLC's for the parts?

What the [snip] is this? I have paid for the game, I have paid for the chapter to get a feature in the chapter but now I need to pay even more to get to use this feature to its full extent? Does nobody see how wrong this is? Do you really think that this much content should be locked behind a pay wall in a b2p game with b2p chapters? And a subscription?! And a cash shop?!

I have paid for the chapter and content inside it then why does the content inside it require me to pay even more?

This is literally pay to win level of monetization!

Upd:

The solution to this problem would be making some of the Mythics completely inside certain DLC and not partially in base game.

This solution is kind of contradictory to my statement before but it's a compromise. At least I wouldn't have hopes to getting something I don't have the DLC for.

at least you dont need to collect malacath for next 6 months cause its useless

Fajin · March 2021

barney2525 wrote: »

I'm missing Something about this conversation. You said you were going to break down and buy ESO+ for the craft bag.

That's fine. But in doing so, if you have bought Greymor (or however you spell it) and If you have ESO+ you have access to ALL the prior DLCs. So I don't understand what the issue is.

I said in the future i will eb able to afford it not right now

Fajin · March 2021

It's interesting how nobody thinks they are paying too much for this game. My main problem is that in my region this game doesn't offer you enough to cover the currency exchange rate. Maybe if this was 10 years ago when dollar was like twice cheaper, then I wouldn't complain about anything, but not in this situation.

All I want is regional prices.

scorpius2k1 · March 2021

ESO is continuing down the slippery hill and staying right on the edge of falling into oblivion, imho (pun intended). What OP is saying may not be technically "P2W", but it is a shady tactic to try to force people to buy content JUST to access gear/items/etc. Regardless of what it's technically being labeled, it's still not right and might as well be in the same "lowball" category. Let's consider that we used to get a full chapter for USD $40-50, with 2 Dungeon DLC per year being extra. The zone was large and full of content. Now, we see this "Year of the <insert catchphrase here>" theme going on as a ploy, a marketing tactic to justify a shift in increased paid content. We still pay the same price for the HALF the new chapter, plus dungeon dlc, and split the other half of the chapter into yet another DLC. Last but not least, so far over the last 2 years the new zone for the chapter has been smaller and less content therein. Add all the rest of the quests in-game to push a DLC purchase, microtransactions, loot crates to get the actual nice cosmetics, and an intentionally problematic inventory system (unless you pay yet another fee for ESO+)... well, it's not hard to see the obvious here. Sure, all of this is optional, but is it really if you want to enjoy the game fully? I would not assume a resounding NO for the majority of the playerbase at some point and ZOS (as well as other companies) know this and have the administrative duty to exploit every little thing from their playerbase to meet the monetary quota set forth by their investors, etc.

I get it, it's business at the end of the day to stay afloat, but it would be nice to not have to be CONSTANTLY reminded of it when playing a game. As a player, it feels like ESO isn't doing as great as it should be and they have to keep adding more and more pay walls to meet financial needs and for the players to open up ESO to it's full potential. I truly enjoy ESO and support ZOS fully, but this isn't right in my eyes fam. It's even harder to justify any of it with the endless performance/bug issues that plague this great game. Promises keep getting made but keep getting broken. ESO has a great potential to have a very long life cycle but I worry ZOS is eventually going to tempt fate/providence early if there isn't some sort of major change and breakthrough.

Fajin · March 2021

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

ESO is continuing down the slippery hill and staying right on the edge of falling into oblivion, imho (pun intended). What OP is saying may not be technically "P2W", but it is a shady tactic to try to force people to buy content JUST to access gear/items/etc. Regardless of what it's technically being labeled, it's still not right and might as well be in the same "lowball" category. Let's consider that we used to get a full chapter for USD $40-50, with 2 Dungeon DLC per year being extra. The zone was large and full of content. Now, we see this "Year of the <insert catchphrase here>" theme going on as a ploy, a marketing tactic to justify a shift in increased paid content. We still pay the same price for the HALF the new chapter, plus dungeon dlc, and split the other half of the chapter into yet another DLC. Last but not least, so far over the last 2 years the new zone for the chapter has been smaller and less content therein. Add all the rest of the quests in-game to push a DLC purchase, microtransactions, loot crates to get the actual nice cosmetics, and an intentionally problematic inventory system (unless you pay yet another fee for ESO+)... well, it's not hard to see the obvious here. Sure, all of this is optional, but is it really if you want to enjoy the game fully? I would not assume a resounding NO for the majority of the playerbase at some point and ZOS (as well as other companies) know this and have the administrative duty to exploit every little thing from their playerbase to meet the monetary quota set forth by their investors, etc.

I get it, it's business at the end of the day to stay afloat, but it would be nice to not have to be CONSTANTLY reminded of it when playing a game. As a player, it feels like ESO isn't doing as great as it should be and they have to keep adding more and more pay walls to meet financial needs and for the players to open up ESO to it's full potential. I truly enjoy ESO and support ZOS fully, but this isn't right in my eyes fam. It's even harder to justify any of it with the endless performance/bug issues that plague this great game. ESO has a great potential to have a very long life cycle but I worry ZOS is eventually going to tempt fate/providence early if there isn't some sort of major change and breakthrough.

Oh my god thank you! Also how the hell only 2 people on this thread see this and others continue to defend the shady practices? It's just unreasonable!

Mythreindeer · March 2021

I don’t think anyone can change your mind Fajin but I agree with many of the posters who have argued against pay to win but also that you’re not getting value for your money. If the money was a factor rather than the principle then you shouldn’t be spending that on gaming. Another caveat: never prepay for content and always read up on what you’re actually getting beforehand.

Fajin · March 2021

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I don’t think anyone can change your mind Fajin but I agree with many of the posters who have argued against pay to win but also that you’re not getting value for your money. If the money was a factor rather than the principle then you shouldn’t be spending that on gaming. Another caveat: never prepay for content and always read up on what you’re actually getting beforehand.

Yeah I do read, just there wasn't anything written about mythic items

Fajin · March 2021

My final opinion is "All I want is regional prices. " I don't think there's really any value in continuing this thread

Mythreindeer · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

My final opinion is "All I want is regional prices. " I don't think there's really any value in continuing this thread

We can agree on that

Redguards_Revenge · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

I have complained about the Craft bag. Ok, I now agree that it is fair to buys ESO+.

ESO+ does not have a regional price for my region. Ok it's worse than normal but I can try to afford it in the future.

And now when I started collecting Mythic items I see that I need DLC's for the parts?

What the [snip] is this? I have paid for the game, I have paid for the chapter to get a feature in the chapter but now I need to pay even more to get to use this feature to its full extent? Does nobody see how wrong this is? Do you really think that this much content should be locked behind a pay wall in a b2p game with b2p chapters? And a subscription?! And a cash shop?!

I have paid for the chapter and content inside it then why does the content inside it require me to pay even more?

This is literally pay to win level of monetization!

Upd:

The solution to this problem would be making some of the Mythics completely inside certain DLC and not partially in base game.

This solution is kind of contradictory to my statement before but it's a compromise. At least I wouldn't have hopes to getting something I don't have the DLC for.

Great JUST RECENTLY BOUGHT ESO!!! Now you are telling me that I can't even get the mythics!!!

Dr_Ganknstein · March 2021

Membership cancelled. No need to have a crafter bag or access to DLC content. I already have the sets on the list so at least I can save money now. Maybe I will renew in Q3.