is it that difficult to get explanations from the combat balance team?

Sergykid

you changed buffs and sets with balance in mind, with the pretext of lowering the distance between the floor and the ceiling.
However you left many things unchanged, like they are supposed to be like this. Not even an explanation of why or a note saying that these will be adjusted in a future patch.
What are the reasons of this? who can i talk with about this? @ZOS_GinaBruno ? it's not like i am entitled to any answers, but the community as a whole (at least everyone i play with) does not understand the changes, or why other things are left untouched, or why nobody from the team is explaining about those decisions.
This just results in a frustrating experience, and it gets down to more work into building the character rather than actual fun gameplay. These things are just another brick in the wall between players and the game.

that was all i had to say, below i will just post some examples regarding to what i am talking about.
- the Malacath Band was made with 25% bonus, comparable to Major Berserk at that time. Now Major Berserk is nerfed to 10% from 25%, yet Band remains the same. Where is the SBE (Set Bonus Efficiency) at this item? it should have been brought down to 10%. would need some math here, should be in SBE now?
- Slimecraw no compensation but i suppose it aligns with SBE ?
- For instance Vampire Cloak has been adjusted for the loss, so i suppose Slimecraw SBE should have been modified too?
- Major Protection from 30% to 10%, but Buffer of the Swift still grants 10% all the time, unchanged.
- proc sets had 1.5k-2k dps standard with proc chances like 15-20%, so maybe a 500 dps. Now there is no proc chance, so they do indeed 1.5k-2k dps but this is too strong now? also should be balanced now with stats scaling, remains to be seen
- if the new Mythic, Gaze of Sithis remains the same as on PTS and doesn't adjust by launch, then it is completely out of their SBE. This is clearly because chapter customers are more important than all other customers (again), since they also nerfed the Band in order to go look for the new better p2w item. Many builds don't block but the most beneficiars are rolly polly nightblades and magsorcs. This will just give an insane boost to them. It's almost a Plague Doctor, a full potential Pariah (or almost 3x Fortified Brass), plus almost half of Endurance, all in one slot.

there are many more examples, but these are just to represent the idea. Do the balance team actually play the game on a competitive level like high MMR battlegrounds or vet dlc trials? Also trial builds are mostly copy-paste and if you dare use something else you lose up to 5k dps.

EDIT: i wanted to add some insight about the nerf to buffs. Again two tons hammer nerf, instead of adjustments. From 15% to 5%, minor buffs like maim or protection are not even worth to use now, just wasted slots on the bar. Same goes for The Major buffs, 10% from 30% is too much to be worth using the sources of these buffs.
Why not first a patch with 10% minor, 20% major, and then decide if they are needed to nerf further to 5 and 10 % ?
.

Vevvev

Felt the buff to the Vampire Cloak set was to make vampire players like myself want to use it. Even more spell damage, the keeping of the health buffs, and now the extra spell damage on the 5 piece along with the minor protection fits right in the vampire playstyle, but I still am not using it over other options out there.

IAmIcehouse

Coming back to ESO and off other games like Valorant or WZ--where the devs are extremely engaged with their community; frequent forums/reddit, post updates via Twitter, releasing details on what they are working on and acknowledging when issues are reported that they are being looked at-- it's extremely frustrating seeing a game as good as ESO have zero transparency between devs and community.

dotme

Their level of thinking is so far above ours that it's impossible for them to translate their strategy into terms we could understand.

Finedaible

I would also like to know why ultimates and skills did not get adjusted with the buff/debuff rework. Reaper's Mark, Atronach synergy, Nova synergy, Hircine's Rage, Slimecraw... all of these and more were left untouched. Logically, they should have done this Major/Minor rework BEFORE all the other so-called "audits" because now they will have to revisit EVERYTHING involving the new major/minor values... It just feels like so much wasted time, effort, and money on a backwards approach to balance, especially when these changes only get published MONTHS apart from each other. From a player perspective, it feels like a waste of ESO+ subscription. Like, what WAS the plan when making these changes anyway? HOW exactly do they plan to nerf critical chance so that we may better prepare for it and not waste so much time on pointless endeavors? I'm sure the player-base might be more supportive if they communicated more of their vision for the game and the challenges that arise from it instead of screwing over their player base with seemingly non-sensical changes (like the Rapids swap no one asked for).

Sergykid

the Band is the most broken thing here, it's like two and a half major berserk constantly uptime. But hey, chapter bring sales when attractive power is available, right? so much for p2w.

renne

Finedaible wrote: »

I would also like to know why ultimates and skills did not get adjusted with the buff/debuff rework. Reaper's Mark, Atronach synergy, Nova synergy, Hircine's Rage, Slimecraw... all of these and more were left untouched. Logically, they should have done this Major/Minor rework BEFORE all the other so-called "audits" because now they will have to revisit EVERYTHING involving the new major/minor values... It just feels like so much wasted time, effort, and money on a backwards approach to balance, especially when these changes only get published MONTHS apart from each other. From a player perspective, it feels like a waste of ESO+ subscription. Like, what WAS the plan when making these changes anyway? HOW exactly do they plan to nerf critical chance so that we may better prepare for it and not waste so much time on pointless endeavors? I'm sure the player-base might be more supportive if they communicated more of their vision for the game and the challenges that arise from it instead of screwing over their player base with seemingly non-sensical changes (like the Rapids swap no one asked for).

I wonder how many people even use Slimecraw anymore? There's literally no place for it anymore in any build. You have it if it's all you can get, but you'd still get more out of two mismatched pieces of monster set.

Also still waiting for more information on the so-called "behavioural changes" that made them gut groups and playstyles in Cyrodiil while admitting it doesn't affect performance. I expect we'll get that as much as we'll get any comment on the rapids change (i.e. not at all).

UGotBenched91

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

zvavi

Thurvokun, altar changes, the difference of stam and mag skills being around 300 that was balanced by the old mag steal of 300, all tank buffs being hit, sorc ultimate synergy, warden ultimate, and more and more. So many things got "hit but not adjusted".

sekou_trayvond

"who can i talk with about this?"

Lol. The ESO forums equivalent of "I want to speak to your manager."

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

If there were ever any rhyme or reason to these changes, we'll never hear about it, sadly. I can only assume this is in preparation for their cp changes, but would a little communication really be so bad to confirm this or not?

kargen27

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

Stellarvorous

Thats the thing

kargen27 wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

Considering balance is jacked up and performance is even worse sometimes some communication on what the game plan is helps if its just silence and then people are stuck looking at the results and then results suck ass its not a good look


Less im wrong are there any pvpers out there enjoying this proc meta and the wonderful AAA performance we got going atm? Anyone? Anyone at all?

Feel free to speak up if your in love with the way zos is *KILLING IT* atm with performance and the current balance Id love to hear about it

katanagirl1

Cyrodiil - a dozen players trying desperately just to take down one enemy player, usually a necro. Pretty sure that class is the root of many of the performance problems as well.

Eiregirl

sekou_trayvond wrote: »

"who can i talk with about this?"

Lol. The ESO forums equivalent of "I want to speak to your manager."

at least you generally get to talk to the manager....but not here

kargen27

Stellarvorous wrote: »

Thats the thing

kargen27 wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

Considering balance is jacked up and performance is even worse sometimes some communication on what the game plan is helps if its just silence and then people are stuck looking at the results and then results suck ass its not a good look


Less im wrong are there any pvpers out there enjoying this proc meta and the wonderful AAA performance we got going atm? Anyone? Anyone at all?

Feel free to speak up if your in love with the way zos is *KILLING IT* atm with performance and the current balance Id love to hear about it

I agree more communication would be nice. The developers shouldn't be the ones communicating with the players though. Proper communication is a skill just like proper coding is a skill. Let the people with the proper skill sets communicate with us and allow the developers do what they do. Developers hanging out in the forums isn't going to do anything with the proc meta nor will it help performance.

Khajiitihaswares

kargen27 wrote: »

Stellarvorous wrote: »

Thats the thing

kargen27 wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

Considering balance is jacked up and performance is even worse sometimes some communication on what the game plan is helps if its just silence and then people are stuck looking at the results and then results suck ass its not a good look


Less im wrong are there any pvpers out there enjoying this proc meta and the wonderful AAA performance we got going atm? Anyone? Anyone at all?

Feel free to speak up if your in love with the way zos is *KILLING IT* atm with performance and the current balance Id love to hear about it

I agree more communication would be nice. The developers shouldn't be the ones communicating with the players though. Proper communication is a skill just like proper coding is a skill. Let the people with the proper skill sets communicate with us and allow the developers do what they do. Developers hanging out in the forums isn't going to do anything with the proc meta nor will it help performance.

Even communication people suck at that job... So many issues and no talk on what is being done or planned to fix the massive issues this year has brought forth...

Sergykid

of course i don't expect actual devs to open chat with us, i don't even want that. By getting explanations from the team, i mean from the person that is talking for them. Surely they must have a leader or organizer or something. And also i don't expect them to give us reports like they do to their bosses. But maybe i am too stupid to understand, can't they tell me at least what's up with this carousel of adjustments?

Grandchamp1989

Good luck getting an explanation on anything from Zos team lol.

As for PVP proc sets I hope they'll nerf them with Battle Spirit so it doesn't affect PVE

Starlock

kargen27 wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

Agreed - especially since it is a battle they cannot win. It wouldn't matter if reasons were given. There is so much fanaticism about video games by some fans these days, it... I don't blame anyone for not wanting to wade into that. Plus, bigger corps have PR watchdogs that muzzle engagements, so employees who don't go through some approval/training can't speak on the behalf of the game/corp anyway.

Better to ask what, as a player, can I do? Accurately reporting issues you run into is one - they've set up venues for that. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows that half the battle (if not more than half) is getting the customer to provide the information you need to fix the problem instead of just spewing irate rants full of exaggerations or worse. Or just doing something else with your life is another. I get that some video games - particularly MMOs - are designed to cultivate addiction in customers, but it really is OK to go outside, take a walk, and remember "yup, it's just a game."

zaria

renne wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

I would also like to know why ultimates and skills did not get adjusted with the buff/debuff rework. Reaper's Mark, Atronach synergy, Nova synergy, Hircine's Rage, Slimecraw... all of these and more were left untouched. Logically, they should have done this Major/Minor rework BEFORE all the other so-called "audits" because now they will have to revisit EVERYTHING involving the new major/minor values... It just feels like so much wasted time, effort, and money on a backwards approach to balance, especially when these changes only get published MONTHS apart from each other. From a player perspective, it feels like a waste of ESO+ subscription. Like, what WAS the plan when making these changes anyway? HOW exactly do they plan to nerf critical chance so that we may better prepare for it and not waste so much time on pointless endeavors? I'm sure the player-base might be more supportive if they communicated more of their vision for the game and the challenges that arise from it instead of screwing over their player base with seemingly non-sensical changes (like the Rapids swap no one asked for).

I wonder how many people even use Slimecraw anymore? There's literally no place for it anymore in any build. You have it if it's all you can get, but you'd still get more out of two mismatched pieces of monster set.

Also still waiting for more information on the so-called "behavioural changes" that made them gut groups and playstyles in Cyrodiil while admitting it doesn't affect performance. I expect we'll get that as much as we'll get any comment on the rapids change (i.e. not at all).

The +2 month test there they was focusing on global cool downs on AoE?

Still scratching my head about that one. Hope it was to scare us senseless so few would complain that zergs and solo play is now much much harder. Or was it higher up who killed the global cooldown idea as it would give an significant drop in revenue, this is scary as they can easy come up with equal stupid stuff.
Yes we got the Crash DLC but that was not really the balance teams fault.

joerginger

kargen27 wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

Which "skill sets" are you talking about?

Sergykid

joerginger wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

Which "skill sets" are you talking about?

probably about the coding and managing stuff, basic dev skills i suppose. Not communicating people, and even if were then they wouldn't do it well as it's not in their common schedule to talk with customers. But i already described this in post # 18

Sergykid

Starlock wrote: »

Better to ask what, as a player, can I do? Accurately reporting issues you run into is one - they've set up venues for that. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows that half the battle (if not more than half) is getting the customer to provide the information you need to fix the problem instead of just spewing irate rants full of exaggerations or worse. Or just doing something else with your life is another. I get that some video games - particularly MMOs - are designed to cultivate addiction in customers, but it really is OK to go outside, take a walk, and remember "yup, it's just a game."

well, i am doing my part. I provide info. I play pvp and pve, and i encounter things that are utterly out of balance, like the Band. Or proc sets that suddenly have triple dps. Or buffs that go from 30 to 10 instead of 30 to 20 and then maybe if needed to 10.
I know i shouldn't care about these things, but since my own personal time i dedicate to something i want to be good at, then i get my morale destroyed because i see these things not thought. That's why i even asked if they play competitive content.
Vet dlc HM trials aren't even possible without meta, there's literally dps checks and what not. Not a bad thing necessarily, but how do they teach players to achieve these things?

renne

Sergykid wrote: »

of course i don't expect actual devs to open chat with us, i don't even want that. By getting explanations from the team, i mean from the person that is talking for them. Surely they must have a leader or organizer or something. And also i don't expect them to give us reports like they do to their bosses. But maybe i am too stupid to understand, can't they tell me at least what's up with this carousel of adjustments?

They have a community manager, who hasn't posted anything for nearly two weeks and doesn't actually bother to communicate with the community she's meant to liaise with apart from to drop the word from above and then ignore that thread forevermore.

ivramirez

the only explanations that you will get is why your post or threats are banned or closed.

Starlock

Sergykid wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Better to ask what, as a player, can I do? Accurately reporting issues you run into is one - they've set up venues for that. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows that half the battle (if not more than half) is getting the customer to provide the information you need to fix the problem instead of just spewing irate rants full of exaggerations or worse. Or just doing something else with your life is another. I get that some video games - particularly MMOs - are designed to cultivate addiction in customers, but it really is OK to go outside, take a walk, and remember "yup, it's just a game."

well, i am doing my part. I provide info. I play pvp and pve, and i encounter things that are utterly out of balance, like the Band. Or proc sets that suddenly have triple dps. Or buffs that go from 30 to 10 instead of 30 to 20 and then maybe if needed to 10.
I know i shouldn't care about these things, but since my own personal time i dedicate to something i want to be good at, then i get my morale destroyed because i see these things not thought. That's why i even asked if they play competitive content.
Vet dlc HM trials aren't even possible without meta, there's literally dps checks and what not. Not a bad thing necessarily, but how do they teach players to achieve these things?

Yes, I agree that your feedback is generally constructive and useful. It was nice to see! And it is a bummer when something we like to do doesn't work right. I've had moments myself, certainly. I try not to get too bent out of shape about it for the sake of my own wellness.

Rehdaun

Good luck getting any kind of explanation. History shows that communication is not a strong point here.

Madhatten512

Finedaible wrote: »

I would also like to know why ultimates and skills did not get adjusted with the buff/debuff rework. Reaper's Mark, Atronach synergy, Nova synergy, Hircine's Rage, Slimecraw... all of these and more were left untouched. Logically, they should have done this Major/Minor rework BEFORE all the other so-called "audits" because now they will have to revisit EVERYTHING involving the new major/minor values... It just feels like so much wasted time, effort, and money on a backwards approach to balance, especially when these changes only get published MONTHS apart from each other. From a player perspective, it feels like a waste of ESO+ subscription. Like, what WAS the plan when making these changes anyway? HOW exactly do they plan to nerf critical chance so that we may better prepare for it and not waste so much time on pointless endeavors? I'm sure the player-base might be more supportive if they communicated more of their vision for the game and the challenges that arise from it instead of screwing over their player base with seemingly non-sensical changes (like the Rapids swap no one asked for).

Just wait they are going to completely rework cp at some point, and have to do another huge skill audit to adjust for the changes. They balance in circles with no direction or goal in mind. Other than to keep Rpers and bad players some what relevant.

Raideen

kargen27 wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Sadly I’ve never seen any dev posts on the forum. The only time I see staff post on forum is saying they had to close a thread or delete posts.

I'm happy the developers are not posting in the forums. Not a good use of their time or skill sets.

I would disagree with your statement. In my experience it behooves a company to maintain a healthy customer/client relationship. In something like an online video game the first aspect of this would be communication. Any psychologist will tell you the first thing any healthy relationship needs is communication.

Sergykid

why don't i see any SBE corrections in PTS notes? if they only apply SBE where they want to, it's not a standard anymore, it's called preferences