This gets worse and worse.

Fajin · March 2021

I have complained about the Craft bag. Ok, I now agree that it is fair to buys ESO+.

ESO+ does not have a regional price for my region. Ok it's worse than normal but I can try to afford it in the future.

And now when I started collecting Mythic items I see that I need DLC's for the parts?

What the [snip] is this? I have paid for the game, I have paid for the chapter to get a feature in the chapter but now I need to pay even more to get to use this feature to its full extent? Does nobody see how wrong this is? Do you really think that this much content should be locked behind a pay wall in a b2p game with b2p chapters? And a subscription?! And a cash shop?!

I have paid for the chapter and content inside it then why does the content inside it require me to pay even more?

This is literally pay to win level of monetization!

Upd:

The solution to this problem would be making some of the Mythics completely inside certain DLC and not partially in base game.

This solution is kind of contradictory to my statement before but it's a compromise. At least I wouldn't have hopes to getting something I don't have the DLC for.

Fajin · March 2021

Now to elaborate on this even more: this is pay 2 win because I need to pay twice to get an advantage.

For example if someone gathers mats for selling. They can gather more if they are faster. They are faster if they have the Ring of the Wild hunt. You need to pay twice to get it. That means that a person who hasn't paid twice gathers less resources in the same timeframe and thus gets less money from guild stores.

A person gets an advantage after paying = pay to win.

Massacre_Wurm · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

A person gets an advantage after paying = pay to win.

No.

There is different kinds of advantages. Someone making more gold per hour is not "pay -to- win" because its not affecting your in any way.

Starlock · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

And now when I started collecting Mythic items I see that I need DLC's for the parts?

This was a major complaint I had about the Greymoor chapter.

On the one hand, the locations for the mythic item fragments was done in a way that makes sense for the items and supports the general idea of the antiquities system. On the other hand, it was not made apparent to the customer that they would need to make additional purchases in order to complete some of these mythic items. That sort of information should be very up front and transparent, especially considering mythic items was one of the major marketing/selling points of the chapter. It results in a customer purchasing an incomplete product without being told they've bought an incomplete product.

That they did this at all is one reason why I'm reticent to pre-order chapters anymore. If there's a pattern of "additional purchases necessary to use the major new system we're selling to you in the chapter" holds, we'll see this same sort of thing worked into the companions system. Imagine in this next chapter release if we have to go to some specific other DLC region to do the companion quest. Imagine then that you don't actually own that DLC and have basically purchased a half-finished product that is asking you to pay more to use it. Are we going to be told this up front this time? Or is it going to be hidden so customers risk bad purchasing decisions based on misleading marketing information?

Fajin · March 2021

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

No.

There is different kinds of advantages. Someone making more gold per hour is not "pay -to- win" because its not affecting your in any way.

You can buys crowns for gold, which give you DLC, which usually have better sets than normal game. Also a person dosen't have to farm a lot of things if he has gold.

RunForTheHills · March 2021

Pay for a month of ESO+ or wait for a free week. Farm the ring and then drop ESO+. Another option, if you are planning to buy crowns to buy a large size house, is to buy a one year subscription to ESO+ for $140. That will get you 19800 crowns. This is a bit cheaper than the $159 to buy 21000 crowns and you will get ESO+ for a year thrown into the bargain.

For myself, I will just pay for the ESO+ subscription as long as I want to play the game and I don't plan to buy any DLCs separately from that other than new chapters when they come out.

Fajin · March 2021

Also ESO+ can be considered p2w because it gives you the same advantage with DLC. But I digress. Maybe it's not that p2w as I see it, but my point still stands I SHOULDN'T PAY MORE MONEY FOR CONTENT I ALREADY BOUGHT. I was promised archeology in the Greymoor chapter, then why can't I get literally the most crucial part of this system in the chapter I bought?

Massacre_Wurm · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

No.

There is different kinds of advantages. Someone making more gold per hour is not "pay -to- win" because its not affecting your in any way.

You can buys crowns for gold, which give you DLC, which usually have better sets than normal game. Also a person dosen't have to farm a lot of things if he has gold.

And how it affecting your gameplay again ? People with "better sets" is not ganking you 24/7
Also you can buy dlc sets from traders and even dlc monster sets from golden vendor and get dlc shoulders from undaunted chest.

Fajin · March 2021

RunForTheHills wrote: »

For myself, I will just pay for the ESO+ subscription as long as I want to play the game and I don't plan to buy any DLCs separately from that other than new chapters when they come out.

You miss my point, I shouldn't pay for content in the chapter I already paid for.

Fajin · March 2021

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

And how it affecting your gameplay again ? People with "better sets" is not ganking you 24/7
Also you can buy dlc sets from traders and even dlc monster sets from golden vendor and get dlc shoulders from undaunted chest.

Ok, maybe you are right on this part. However you still didn't disprove my main point (read any of my above messages)

Goregrinder · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

RunForTheHills wrote: »

For myself, I will just pay for the ESO+ subscription as long as I want to play the game and I don't plan to buy any DLCs separately from that other than new chapters when they come out.

You miss my point, I shouldn't pay for content in the chapter I already paid for.

But you didn't pay for that content, and by content specifically that mythic item. You paid for other content related to that chapter, which you already got after you paid. Access to a mythic is extra as it's additional content. OR you could just pay $15 a month. The choice is in your hands.

Red_Feather · March 2021

It looks like the most popular mythic is locked behind the least popular dlc zone. I sometimes forget murkmire exists.

You'll get access to it eventually during a free event. You only need to get the part once.

Fajin · March 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

But you didn't pay for that content, and by content specifically that mythic item.

Oh what else didn't I pay for? Maybe I didn't pay for the game and just the ability to log on to servers? Oh why am I able to create a character? I paid for the game, not a character!

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

RunForTheHills · March 2021

Honestly, you can make a fast farming build without the Wild Hunt ring. Alcast has one. I used that build before I got the Wild Hunt ring and there isn't a lot of difference.

SeaGtGruff · March 2021

I own all chapters and DLCs in the game, and I haven't acquired any mythic items yet. I've collected a few parts (fragments?) for a few of them, but haven't taken the time or made the effort to grind for the rest of them. Believe me, you don't need those things to play the game.

As for "needing" them to be highly competitive at PvP, I have no idea whether any of them are truly essential for that, but you can still engage in PvP without them. Whether or not you'll win is unknown to me, and I'm sure you'll get differing opinions on whether specific mythic items are "good" or "trash," but I would imagine there must be plenty of great builds that don't include any mythical items.

If you really want a particular mythic item, but don't have ESO Plus or all of the DLCs that contain parts of that item, you could grind for the parts that you can get, then grind for the others during one of those "free ESO Plus" weekends.

starkerealm · March 2021

So...

Pearls of Ehlofey requires no DLC.
Ring of the Pale Order requires two DLC leads (Wrothgar, and The Reach.)
Bloodlord's Embrace requires an Imperial City lead (but, I think the IC is free in the crown store, now?)
Band of Brutality requires Wrothgar and IC.
Ring of the Wild Hunt requires Mukrmire (which is honestly the weirdest requirement on the list. Murkmire was a login reward years ago, but it's entirely reasonable to assume that this is not "free" content.)
Snow Treaders requires Western Skyrim... but, the entire system requires Greymoor, so this one's kind of a wash.
Thrassian Stranglers requires Summerset, twice.
Torc of Tonal Consistancy requires no DLC.

To get every mythic in the game, you need:

Wrothgar (actually need this one)
Imperial City (which, may be free now)
Murkmire (my sympathies)
Greymoor (which you needed anyway to gain access to the system)
Summerset (for one Mythic that has been heavily nerfed) EDIT: And you already own Summerset anyway, so you're good.
The Reach.

The Reach is noteworthy because the only lead there is fixed and can be picked up on the spot. Just go in and grab it on an free ESO+ weekend, no problem.

Murkmire can probably be done on a free weekend, it only requires farming the delves or world bosses, but I'll grant you that RNG can be fickle.

Wrothgar is probably something you really want to consider investing in, if you want any of the mythics that drop pieces here (which includes Pale Order.) This zone has a very outsized presence in the community, because it is the home of VMA, and a lot of players "need" access to this DLC frequently as a result. If money is an issue, I'd honestly suggest exchanging gold to someone you trust in exchange for them gifting you the DLC. Not even just in the sense of the mythic leads here.

Worth noting that the IC's leads actually dump you back out in base game zones for the actual dig, so you're not trying to excavate while hostile players are trying to kill you.

Stranglers require you need to enjoy fishing.

As a quick aside, until I looked it up, I'd never realized that the only DLC lead for the wolf mount is in Western Skyrim. So, you can also get that, no problem. (I honestly expected to see Wrothgar, and Vvardenfell pop up for this.)

Massacre_Wurm · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

And how it affecting your gameplay again ? People with "better sets" is not ganking you 24/7
Also you can buy dlc sets from traders and even dlc monster sets from golden vendor and get dlc shoulders from undaunted chest.

Ok, maybe you are right on this part. However you still didn't disprove my main point (read any of my above messages)

As for main point, yes it kind of sucks if you have limited budget. 3k crowns for Orsinium ( Malacath 's band ) alone.
Well you will have to farm like 1.5 mil of gold or wait for a discount/free week.

Fennwitty · March 2021

I'm a little unclear on the specific issue.

Do you have ESO+? If so, you have access to all the DLC zones which aren't 'chapters'.

Chapters have always been larger, and the most recent chapter isn't bundled in ESO+ It's been that way awhile.

So yes you'd need to pay for Greymoor if you want it now.

In June another chapter will be released (Blackwood), and you should then get Greymoor free as part of ESO+

Goregrinder · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

But you didn't pay for that content, and by content specifically that mythic item.

Oh what else didn't I pay for? Maybe I didn't pay for the game and just the ability to log on to servers? Oh why am I able to create a character? I paid for the game, not a character!

Do you see how stupid your argument is?

Your argument is that if I pay one fee, I get access to 100% of everything. That's not how it works. This is an a la carte pay model. You pay for the things you want access to, and you don't get access to the things you don't pay for. What you've paid so far was basic access to login to the game (Base game price), and paid for the latest chapter (current part of the base game story). Mythic items are not included in those purchases.

You've gone 2 steps deep, but there's a 3rd step that leads you to mythic items. So you're at 2/3 right now.

Fajin · March 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

Your argument is that if I pay one fee, I get access to 100% of everything. That's not how it works. This is an a la carte pay model. You pay for the things you want access to, and you don't get access to the things you don't pay for. What you've paid so far was basic access to login to the game (Base game price), and paid for the latest chapter (current part of the base game story). Mythic items are not included in those purchases.

You've gone 2 steps deep, but there's a 3rd step that leads you to mythic items. So you're at 2/3 right now.

Where is it written that I didn't pay for the mythic items?

In Greymoor's description on the site it is stated "Uncover Tamriel’s History – Recover lost artifacts across all of Tamriel with the new Antiquities system." that doesn't tell me I need to pay fro it more.

For example 2 years ago (I believe) I bought Summerset chapter that had jewelry crafting in it that comes with the chapter. Since I paid for the chapter I get the system and I don't need to pay anything else for it, i can craft rings to my heart's content.

If jewelry crafting isn't locked by DLC locations then why the Antiquities are?

SeaGtGruff · March 2021

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

3k crowns for Orsinium ( Malacath 's band ) alone.

Or 4k crowns for the "Guilds and Glory" bundle that includes Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhod (and Imperial City, which is free anyway). The bundle might cost more, but is a better deal-- unless you want all of the extras (mounts, pets, etc.) that are included when you buy the DLCs separately.

bmnoble · March 2021

Not seeing your issue this information was all available even before the chapter released, they did not hide that the scrying excavations were going to be in all the zones of the game, it would not have made sense to add them as skill lines if you could only use them in the chapter zone.

Its a business decision to get people to revisit old zones, making them look populated and either buy the DLC or get ESO+ in the exact same way as people who don't own the chapter getting leads, surveys and treasure maps they can't use till they buy the chapter.

starkerealm · March 2021

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

3k crowns for Orsinium ( Malacath 's band ) alone.

Or 4k crowns for the "Guilds and Glory" bundle that includes Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhod (and Imperial City, which is free anyway). The bundle might cost more, but is a better deal-- unless you want all of the extras (mounts, pets, etc.) that are included when you buy the DLCs separately.

No, that is a better deal. You only get the mounts and other goodies if you buy the Collector's Edition packs for each. Granted, if you don't enjoy stealth (and don't have a Nightblade), Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are probably going to be far less appealing.

Fajin · March 2021

Also by definition ESO+ subscription is optional and DLC i.e. downloadable content is by definition (on wikipedia) optional too. Both of those shouldn't be required for anything outside what they provide.

If i buys a chapter and some of its content is locked behind DLC then the DLC is not optional. Or if I need to buy ESO+ then it is not optional

Fajin · March 2021

Aside from everything I just can't believe how nobody except 1 person (other than me) sees a problem in this.

virtus753 · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

Aside from everything I just can't believe how nobody except 1 person (other than me) sees a problem in this.

That's because you're about a year late to the party. We knew Greymoor was not going to grant access to every single antiquity at this point last year.

Here's one example from April last year:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524634/utilizing-the-antiquities-system-demands-access-to-every-story-dlc

starkerealm · March 2021

Then why weren't you complaining back in Summerset? Some of the narrative content in that release is gated behind completing Clockwork City and the Balmora questline on Vvardenfell.

Stuff like Ring of the Pale Order is nice to have, but the item is optional. You do not need it. It's nice to have, it's powerful. It is not mandatory.

Ironically, one of the mythics added with The Reach is entirely rooted in base game zones. The DLC dropped, and because you had Greymoor, you got that, "for free."

Is it unfortunate that Ring of The Wild Hunt includes DLC zones? Yeah, but not as much as it's just weird that it includes Murkmire.

Fajin · March 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

Fajin wrote: »

Aside from everything I just can't believe how nobody except 1 person (other than me) sees a problem in this.

That's because you're about a year late to the party. We knew Greymoor was not going to grant access to every single antiquity at this point last year.

Here's one example from April last year:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524634/utilizing-the-antiquities-system-demands-access-to-every-story-dlc

But then the problem is that everybody is fine with that. How?! The only reason I see for people excusing this is making their money spent on ESO+ or DLCs worthy. It's like being in denial or something. I'm just done.

Probably my whole rant is useless because ZOS won't change anything, because why would they?

Fajin · March 2021

The solution to this problem would be making some of the Mythics completely inside certain DLCs and not partially in base game.

This solution is kind of contradictory to my statement before but it's a compromise. At least I wouldn't have hopes to getting something I don't have the DLC for.

starkerealm · March 2021

Fajin wrote: »

But then the problem is that everybody is fine with that. How?! The only reason I see for people excusing this is making their money spent on ESO+ or DLCs worthy. It's like being in denial or something. I'm just done.

Probably my whole rant is useless because ZOS won't change anything, because why would they?

Again, in case you didn't read the breakdown earlier, The Reach added a new mythic that does not require ANY DLC access, and Greymoor includes one that is entirely base game except for one Greymoor lead.

There are mythics available to you.

Now, it's not the mythic you want. Which is how a lot of BoP gear works. Just like how you can't get some of the DLC dungeon sets unless you actually go in there and run those dungeons.

Nightowl_74 · March 2021

It seems standard to me as far as paying for the newest chapters. Other subscription based MMO's I've played have been the same (not saying they all are, just the ones I'm experienced with) and you pay somewhere around forty bucks for each expansion. That being said, ESO pops them out at about twice the rate of the other games and what should or shouldn't be in the cash shop is another matter. However, I think ESO is also the only one that allows existing subscription holders to eventually have access to that content for free after the next ones is released.