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Do you support the planned Racial Passive changes without Free change tokens?

  • DreadDaedroth
    DreadDaedroth
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Yes so I can tweak some minor details or my characters using them as appereance change tokens
    Edited by DreadDaedroth on March 5, 2021 9:02AM
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    I'm too burned out from the constant changes to give diddly squat about whether or not they give away race tokens.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    virtus753 wrote: »
    I'm curious about the various opinions out there:

    Do people feel we should get free race change tokens after any change to racial passives, or only when they reach a certain threshold? If the latter, where is the threshold for when free tokens are warranted?

    Since I don't play any other MMOs, I wonder why race changes lead to calls for tokens whereas changing stats so (paid) DLC gear is much more attractive seems fairly widely accepted as the norm (Iceheart being a very notable exception, especially as the DLC alternative was never comparable). Isn't that a very similar mechanic in that there is an associated cost to follow meta as it changes?

    For the racial changes, since they haven't been posted yet in this thread, see here:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559360/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-0

    The devs call these "slight adjustments." They do seem to be adjustments to the current bonuses, for the most part, rather than wholesale changes as we got before. ("Slight" will be subjective.) This is why I'm asking where people feel the threshold is for free race change tokens.

    ETA: For comparison, here are the previous race changes that eventually merited 3 race change tokens per account:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21

    The numbers were tweaked slightly in some cases, if I remember right, but just to give people a sense of the magnitude and quality of the changes.

    When the changes to iceheart were announced, the playerbase was furious on the forums. We saw it for what it was, a deliberate money-grab scheme to help entice people to buy the new dlc to get the absolutely worthless Mother Cainet set. We didn’t and still don’t accept the practice of artificially creating a need to spend real money to improve builds you should already possess. Make dlc stuff stronger, but not by making my current stuff weaker to the point of being obsolete like with Iceheart.

    With racial changes, its not like a dlc where I can wait for a eso+ free trial, get all the gear I need for my build and call it a day, or even simply buying eso+ for a month which in and of itself provides LOADS of content that is well worthy of the price. These racial changes make me need to spend $20-$30 (depending on how “in bulk” I buy the crowns) PER CHARACTER. Every stamina dps that made an orc will be at a significant disadvantage compared to their dark elf counterparts, and what of the tanks that chose to be a nord instead of a breton because of the large amount of armor it provided, only for it to be stripped to less than half its original value?

    Not providing race change tokens would be an extremely unethical choice on zenimax’s part. I’m still holding out hope that they won’t screw over their entire endgame playerbase with this, on top of the 10-20% damage nerf.....
  • Scardan
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Free stuff does not bite and ZoS will not get broke from giving us free race changes. They will profit from it later, when all that tanks that changed race to Imperial see that Imperial is not the number one and will buy tokens to change back :D.
    Let's be extremely precise in our use of terms.
  • Michae
    Michae
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    I don't really care. I wouldn't deny tokens to those who feel they need to change their races, but I don't need them myself. I still have two of the three that we got before Elsweyr, I used one to tweak my character's appearance without changing the race. I don't care about min/maxing I play Nord stamblade as a main for crying out loud. RP and backstory are more important to me than 1-2% more dps.
    "I bear the cruel weight of certainty. Total, absolute, relentless certainty. People rarely comprehend the luxury of doubt... the freedom that comes with indecision. I envy you."
    Sotha Sil

    @Michae PC/EU
  • laksikus
    laksikus
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    Seems to me that Zos saw that some stam classes were overperforming and adjusted th em all to make them more equal.

    I think the changes are not too bad and have alot less impact than the last major overhaul here they gave out the free race changes.

    And i also think that most people answering this poll just want the free race change token and dont care for some races that got changed
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    Just get over it. ZOS can’t offer you race change tokens every time they adjust the racial passives, especially when the changes are rather minor like this time. You guys asking for tokens don’t even want one racial change token, you want one for every character or multiple tokens which - for me - reeks of entitlement.

    I don’t understand these discussions either, the changes are so minimal and vary in a 1-2% range, at best, and still people keep changing races for the sake of changing races. And in the next patch when they are adjusted again they want to change again. This is really a bizarre way of playing a game.

    Stick to and live with your choices. Don’t make choices based on numbers or minuscule changes. Choose and play the race you sympathize the most with, not the race you think (or better: are told by others) is the best.

    No free race change tokens.
    Edited by Seraphayel on March 5, 2021 10:05AM
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Scardan
    Scardan
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Just get over it. ZOS can’t offer you race change tokens every time they adjust the racial passives,

    Why?
    It does not have material cost.
    It does not have shipping cost
    They already exist
    It does not need many working hours.

    Why can't they offer them every time they make racial changes in your opinion?
    Let's be extremely precise in our use of terms.
  • DjinnAeternam
    DjinnAeternam
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Feels like a ripoff to milk even more a battered community.
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    Scardan wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Just get over it. ZOS can’t offer you race change tokens every time they adjust the racial passives,

    Why?
    It does not have material cost.
    It does not have shipping cost
    They already exist
    It does not need many working hours.

    Why can't they offer them every time they make racial changes in your opinion?

    Because it’s insanity to ask for race change tokens every single time they make a race 0.5% better or worse by giving them 50 more Magicka or reducing their recovery by 15.

    If they start supporting this kind of player entitlement, it will only get worse over time. The tokens we got during the massive changes they did years ago were warranted, but to ask for tokens every single patch nowadays... it’s just too much. Even if it doesn’t require that much work, it requires work and puts stress on the servers. If you’re so so so concerned with the very minimal changes don’t shy away from spending money on a token. Or, as I said, simply live with your decision, the outcome will be exactly the same.
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    If the changes impact core game performance, such as dps, sustain, survivability, etc, then the idea that no race change tokens will be provided is unacceptable.

    One hopes Zos wont take the step of disrespecting players like that...



  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Just get over it. ZOS can’t offer you race change tokens every time they adjust the racial passives, especially when the changes are rather minor like this time. You guys asking for tokens don’t even want one racial change token, you want one for every character or multiple tokens which - for me - reeks of entitlement.

    I don’t understand these discussions either, the changes are so minimal and vary in a 1-2% range, at best, and still people keep changing races for the sake of changing races. And in the next patch when they are adjusted again they want to change again. This is really a bizarre way of playing a game.

    Stick to and live with your choices. Don’t make choices based on numbers or minuscule changes. Choose and play the race you sympathize the most with, not the race you think (or better: are told by others) is the best.

    No free race change tokens.

    How about this then:

    Maybe zos shouldn’t change racial passives to begin with? The reason this is a problem is because I can’t adjust my carefully thought out race after I made it without spending money.
    Imagine if players couldn’t chance races at all, and everyone who spent the time researching racial passives and leveling the characters were stuck with an inferior race for the role they wanted to play.

    That scenario is very real for most players who as a matter of fact, don’t have $30 to spend on each stamina character they own.

    And so a 1-2% difference isn’t significant to you? So what would be then? 5%? 10%? There are thousands of orc characters in this game not because we all love roleplaying an ugly green tusk humanoid, but because it has good stamina dps passives. If it is significant enough for people to make that aesthetic sacrifice for more damage, then it is significant enough for zos to give back what they are taking from us, which is the meta racial passives we sought after in the first place!
  • TheForFeeF
    TheForFeeF
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    If they are making nerfs to any race, there should be at least a free token per nerfed race (only if you have a certain playtime with a character to combat this potentially being abused). If you're not a min/maxer, or just don't care enough about endgame content, it simply won't matter to you. However, if you do, it does matter a lot.

    If there is a buff to another race, but yours stays the same, you shouldn't receive a race change token. Nothing has changed to your current character.

    There isn't a good argument for no free race change tokens when they nerf a race. Saying that there shouldn't be a free race change just because it doesn't affect you is ignorant.
  • Seraphayel
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    There are thousands of orc characters in this game not because we all love roleplaying an ugly green tusk humanoid, but because it has good stamina dps passives. If it is significant enough for people to make that aesthetic sacrifice for more damage, then it is significant enough for zos to give back what they are taking from us, which is the meta racial passives we sought after in the first place!

    This is exactly the problem. You’re choosing a race you aesthetically don’t like just for the perception to perform better. If you’re chasing the meta, live with the consequences, e.g. the volatility of said meta.

    This is an MMORPG where changes happen on a frequent basis. You can live with the changes or you adjust to them. It’s not the responsibility of the game to pander to your imaginary needs of meta-chasing. That’s the way you chose for yourself - which is absolutely fine - but if you want to go that way, commit to it and don’t ask others to make it easier for you to stick to that path. What’s the saying? Go hard or go home.

    And you’ve asked for numbers, so I’ll give you mine: 10% or more is for me a threshold that can be felt. A 1% difference is recognizable on paper, but you’ll never recognize it in game without using combat parses.
    Edited by Seraphayel on March 5, 2021 10:42AM
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Tokens, please
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    NoSoup wrote: »
    Previously rebalancing of races was accompanied by 3 race change tokens per account, an action that the majority of the playerbase accepted as being fair last time.

    That only happened once in the game's history, and it came with very significant reworks to how many of the races worked. There's still players smarting over the Wood Elf changes from that patch. Additionally, it was originally a single complimentary race change token, and the community went ballistic. That was revised up to 3 race change tokens AND 3 name change tokens.

    Does this merit the same? No. It would be nice, I wouldn't say no to three more race and name change tokens, but the changes are nowhere near the magnitude of that patch, and people demanding them are really just looking for free stuff.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are thousands of orc characters in this game not because we all love roleplaying an ugly green tusk humanoid, but because it has good stamina dps passives. If it is significant enough for people to make that aesthetic sacrifice for more damage, then it is significant enough for zos to give back what they are taking from us, which is the meta racial passives we sought after in the first place!

    This is exactly the problem. You’re choosing a race you aesthetically don’t like just for the perception to perform better. If you’re chasing the meta, live with the consequences, e.g. the volatility of said meta.

    This is an MMORPG where changes happen on a frequent basis. You can live with the changes or you adjust to them. It’s not the responsibility of the game to pander to your imaginary needs of meta-chasing. That’s the way you chose for yourself - which is absolutely fine - but if you want to go that way, commit to it and don’t ask others to make it easier for you to stick to that path. What’s the saying? Go hard or go home.

    And you’ve asked for numbers, so I’ll give you mine: 10% or more is for me a threshold that can be felt. A 1% difference is recognizable on paper, but you’ll never recognize it in game without using combat parses.

    It isn’t a perceptional increase in damage, it is very real for starters.

    Secondly, I would LOVE to “adjust” to the changes using the in game mechanics for changing my race. Please, show me which npc I should talk to in order to change my race so I can fulfill my meta-craven need. Whats that? I can only do it with crowns?

    ESO is not candy crush where the players are expected to pay money in order to win. If there was a way to race change without crowns, doing a racial passive change wouldn’t be a problem, BUT THERE ISN’T.

    What if they suddenly made all the khajit bright blue to the point they were hideous, forcing all the roleplayers to race change to something more pleasing? Suddenly saying “just live with it or adjust (by forking over $30)” or to “live with the consequences” doesn’t seem to cut it anymore. Consequences of what exactly? Playing the game? Pretentious much?

    Same case for any player who took the time to research their class, role, armor sets, skills, cp points. And RACE. Out of all those things, only class and race can’t be changed using mechanics within the game.

    I don’t know what it is you care about in the game, but clearly you don’t understand the effort that goes into making a solid endgame build if you so egregiously undervalue a player’s desire to have the proper race for their role.
  • NoSoup
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    virtus753 wrote: »
    I'm curious about the various opinions out there:

    Do people feel we should get free race change tokens after any change to racial passives, or only when they reach a certain threshold? If the latter, where is the threshold for when free tokens are warranted?

    Since I don't play any other MMOs, I wonder why race changes lead to calls for tokens whereas changing stats so (paid) DLC gear is much more attractive seems fairly widely accepted as the norm (Iceheart being a very notable exception, especially as the DLC alternative was never comparable). Isn't that a very similar mechanic in that there is an associated cost to follow meta as it changes?

    For the racial changes, since they haven't been posted yet in this thread, see here:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559360/pts-patch-notes-v6-3-0

    The devs call these "slight adjustments." They do seem to be adjustments to the current bonuses, for the most part, rather than wholesale changes as we got before. ("Slight" will be subjective.) This is why I'm asking where people feel the threshold is for free race change tokens.

    ETA: For comparison, here are the previous race changes that eventually merited 3 race change tokens per account:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21

    The numbers were tweaked slightly in some cases, if I remember right, but just to give people a sense of the magnitude and quality of the changes.

    When the changes to iceheart were announced, the playerbase was furious on the forums. We saw it for what it was, a deliberate money-grab scheme to help entice people to buy the new dlc to get the absolutely worthless Mother Cainet set. We didn’t and still don’t accept the practice of artificially creating a need to spend real money to improve builds you should already possess. Make dlc stuff stronger, but not by making my current stuff weaker to the point of being obsolete like with Iceheart.

    With racial changes, its not like a dlc where I can wait for a eso+ free trial, get all the gear I need for my build and call it a day, or even simply buying eso+ for a month which in and of itself provides LOADS of content that is well worthy of the price. These racial changes make me need to spend $20-$30 (depending on how “in bulk” I buy the crowns) PER CHARACTER. Every stamina dps that made an orc will be at a significant disadvantage compared to their dark elf counterparts, and what of the tanks that chose to be a nord instead of a breton because of the large amount of armor it provided, only for it to be stripped to less than half its original value?

    Not providing race change tokens would be an extremely unethical choice on zenimax’s part. I’m still holding out hope that they won’t screw over their entire endgame playerbase with this, on top of the 10-20% damage nerf.....

    You've probably summed it up better than any one yet, on point.
    Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....
  • emilyhyoyeon
    emilyhyoyeon
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    I would never change my characters' races since I choose them for rp reasons, but the changes definitely warrant free tokens like last time. There's so many people answering based on what they personally do which is missing the point imo
    IGN @ emilypumpkin
    Tullanisse Starborne altmer spellsword battlemage & scholar of the ayleids
    Qa'Rirra khajiit assassin & dancer
    Seliwequen Narilata altmer necromancer & debaucher
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    I don’t know what it is you care about in the game, but clearly you don’t understand the effort that goes into making a solid endgame build if you so egregiously undervalue a player’s desire to have the proper race for their role.

    Every race can fulfill every role to the amount that’s needed to succeed in every part of the game - from hardcore PvP to hardcore PvE and everything in between.

    Your choice of race does matter on paper, it doesn’t matter in reality (e.g. in game). There’s no content that requires you to have a perfect race-group-setup to be successful. Every race is a proper race when it comes to game mechanics and the game itself. The issues solely exist in players‘ heads and, as I already said, on paper, in statistics, parses and metrics - luckily those things don’t make or break the game.
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • MorganaBlue
    MorganaBlue
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    I have to respec 3 Bretons and 2 Redguards which weren't the best races even before, and are are now utter trash.

    Please include racial respec in the Heroes Reforged event perks ffs.
    If the ploy is to sell race change tokens - it is a pepega approach.

    I personally won't buy them- I'd rather make a new character and grind to 50, which we'll be able to do much faster with new patch anyway.
    Edited by MorganaBlue on March 5, 2021 12:05PM
  • wolfbone
    wolfbone
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    I think it's stupid. they only just changed the racial passives, why do they changing yet again?
    and so soon?
  • NoSoup
    NoSoup
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    I don’t know what it is you care about in the game, but clearly you don’t understand the effort that goes into making a solid endgame build if you so egregiously undervalue a player’s desire to have the proper race for their role.

    Every race can fulfill every role to the amount that’s needed to succeed in every part of the game - from hardcore PvP to hardcore PvE and everything in between.

    Your choice of race does matter on paper, it doesn’t matter in reality (e.g. in game). There’s no content that requires you to have a perfect race-group-setup to be successful. Every race is a proper race when it comes to game mechanics and the game itself. The issues solely exist in players‘ heads and, as I already said, on paper, in statistics, parses and metrics - luckily those things don’t make or break the game.

    You're either dillusional or completely out of touch of the realities of this game. We've already had some of THE best players currently playing the game saying they will be race changing due to these changes.

    I get it, there's a lot of role players, a lot of causals that have been here a long time thinking doing the occasional vHRC makes them an "end game player" a lot of players that for the last 7 years have only managed to get 2 or 3 characters up and running. I get it, you exsist. But just cause you exsist doesn't mean you're playstyle is popular or even close to being mainstream. The share majority of players that play want to be competitive and the best they can be with the resources they have, whether that is a 300ms ping, a disability or just "not quite getting weaving". For those players, the ones that want to win and clear content, racial passives matter.

    You cannot stand up here and say passives mean nothing if you want to be the best you can be or get the acheivements you want, the only people making those comments are the one's resided to the fact they'll never be good enough to get them in the first place. (Feel free to prove me wrong, show us your flawless on an agonian, or stam brenton, or magic orc)
    Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....
  • laksikus
    laksikus
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    I have to respec 3 Bretons and 2 Redguards which weren't the best races even before, and are are now utter trash.

    Please include racial respec in the Heroes Reforged event perks ffs.
    If the ploy is to sell race change tokens - it is a pepega approach.

    I personally won't buy them- I'd rather make a new character and grind to 50, which we'll be able to do much faster with new patch anyway.

    Why are breton and redguard trash in the in new patch? Werent those 2 races streight out buffed.
    And why would grinding a char from 1 to 50 be faster?
  • nukk3r
    nukk3r
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    Some people care too much about numbers. I was never refused a place in a trial group based on my main character's race and class (khajiit stamblade). The only time someone told me to reroll an orc was when I couldn't break a 60k parse threshold, now I parse over 80k and still play a khajiit. My tank is a redguard, and I cleared vet DLC dungeon hardmodes on that toon. I never even considered playing a nord tank.
  • NoSoup
    NoSoup
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    nukk3r wrote: »
    Some people care too much about numbers. I was never refused a place in a trial group based on my main character's race and class (khajiit stamblade). The only time someone told me to reroll an orc was when I couldn't break a 60k parse threshold, now I parse over 80k and still play a khajiit. My tank is a redguard, and I cleared vet DLC dungeon hardmodes on that toon. I never even considered playing a nord tank.

    Kudos, top 10%, and I bet you have less than a 80ms ping. Well done, fell proud of yourself. You are far from a representation of the average player....
    Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....
  • NoSoup
    NoSoup
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    laksikus wrote: »
    I have to respec 3 Bretons and 2 Redguards which weren't the best races even before, and are are now utter trash.

    Please include racial respec in the Heroes Reforged event perks ffs.
    If the ploy is to sell race change tokens - it is a pepega approach.

    I personally won't buy them- I'd rather make a new character and grind to 50, which we'll be able to do much faster with new patch anyway.

    Why are breton and redguard trash in the in new patch? Werent those 2 races streight out buffed.
    And why would grinding a char from 1 to 50 be faster?

    Grinding a character from 1-50 is faster than grinding for the gold to get a race change if you don't want/can't spend real money to fill ZOS' coffers
    Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....
  • PaddyVu
    PaddyVu
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    No. The changes justify some form of Race change relief.
    1 is enough, i dont need 2 and i just focus on main only and delete all trash toon that cant affort token.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    I am kinda neutral on that. Almost all of my characters are non-meta. I did not race changed any of them back in Wrathstone and I still have unused tokens. Will I change them ? Definitely not, even if I had more tokens.

    But, I clearly see why people who actually care about competitive gameplay (pvp, pve score runs etc.) can feel kinda "cheated". So ZOS could give some free tokens, just to avoid backlash or something. But as I stated before - I (personally) do not care much for chasing what is BiS & Meta.
  • nukk3r
    nukk3r
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    Yes. The changes are fine without anyform of race change relief.
    NoSoup wrote: »
    nukk3r wrote: »
    Some people care too much about numbers. I was never refused a place in a trial group based on my main character's race and class (khajiit stamblade). The only time someone told me to reroll an orc was when I couldn't break a 60k parse threshold, now I parse over 80k and still play a khajiit. My tank is a redguard, and I cleared vet DLC dungeon hardmodes on that toon. I never even considered playing a nord tank.

    Kudos, top 10%, and I bet you have less than a 80ms ping. Well done, fell proud of yourself. You are far from a representation of the average player....

    Lol what? Top 10%? I'm barely into 50th percentile with my parse, according to ESOLogs. My ping is 120 on a good day and jumps up to 200. But if you think that my numbers are top 10%, then these race changes won't affect you in the slightest. They'll affect players like me and more skilled but even then it will be inconsequential, we'll just practice more.
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