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PTS Update 29 - UNofficial Feedback Thread for Race changes
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Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
That could actually be done quite easily. Instead of adding flat 1K stamina to Argonian racial passive, how about simply changing 1K magicka to:ExistingRug61 wrote: »Don’t get me wrong, I agree that Argonian could use a change to its racials as it’s lacking. It’s too unfocused. But the actual set bonus worth is about right (although I could easily be persuaded that ZOS is over valuing elemental resistance) hence my suggestions of reducing less useful bonuses to buff more useful bonuses, as this would increase Argonians gameplay strength without simply over budgeting it mathematically.
"Gain 1000 magicka or stamina, depending on your highest resource pool"
^ That way we would still remain within "power budget" as you would not get both mag & stam at the same time. This would also allow to leave potion passive as it is on live server (4000). It would even fit the lore as Argonians are known for their "adaptivnes".
I think they nerfed the potion passive because all the other sustain races got nerfed from the sustain CPs being removed. They probably didn't want Argonians to overperform. And yes, I realize how silly it sounds to call Argonians overperforming.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
That could actually be done quite easily. Instead of adding flat 1K stamina to Argonian racial passive, how about simply changing 1K magicka to:ExistingRug61 wrote: »Don’t get me wrong, I agree that Argonian could use a change to its racials as it’s lacking. It’s too unfocused. But the actual set bonus worth is about right (although I could easily be persuaded that ZOS is over valuing elemental resistance) hence my suggestions of reducing less useful bonuses to buff more useful bonuses, as this would increase Argonians gameplay strength without simply over budgeting it mathematically.
"Gain 1000 magicka or stamina, depending on your highest resource pool"
^ That way we would still remain within "power budget" as you would not get both mag & stam at the same time. This would also allow to leave potion passive as it is on live server (4000). It would even fit the lore as Argonians are known for their "adaptivnes".
I think they nerfed the potion passive because all the other sustain races got nerfed from the sustain CPs being removed. They probably didn't want Argonians to overperform. And yes, I realize how silly it sounds to call Argonians overperforming.
I agree that this is likely why it was done.
However what ZOS forgot was that in the previous update all the recovery buffs like endurance were doubled, so by the same logic the Argonian passive should have been buffed at that point to keep it balanced, but that didn’t happen.Edited by ExistingRug61 on January 31, 2021 2:12AM3 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ExistingRug61 wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
That could actually be done quite easily. Instead of adding flat 1K stamina to Argonian racial passive, how about simply changing 1K magicka to:ExistingRug61 wrote: »Don’t get me wrong, I agree that Argonian could use a change to its racials as it’s lacking. It’s too unfocused. But the actual set bonus worth is about right (although I could easily be persuaded that ZOS is over valuing elemental resistance) hence my suggestions of reducing less useful bonuses to buff more useful bonuses, as this would increase Argonians gameplay strength without simply over budgeting it mathematically.
"Gain 1000 magicka or stamina, depending on your highest resource pool"
^ That way we would still remain within "power budget" as you would not get both mag & stam at the same time. This would also allow to leave potion passive as it is on live server (4000). It would even fit the lore as Argonians are known for their "adaptivnes".
I think they nerfed the potion passive because all the other sustain races got nerfed from the sustain CPs being removed. They probably didn't want Argonians to overperform. And yes, I realize how silly it sounds to call Argonians overperforming.
I agree that this is likely why it was done.
However what ZOS forgot was that in the previous update all the recovery buffs like endurance were doubled, so by the same logic the Argonian passive should have been buffed at that point to keep it balanced, but that didn’t happen.
The developers work in mysterious ways
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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Exactly. Even if you will run max potion cooldown, you are still better of with running all tri-stat recovery glyphs as those provide significantly more recovery, not even counting that 40% recovery bonus from tri-stat potions.ExistingRug61 wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
That could actually be done quite easily. Instead of adding flat 1K stamina to Argonian racial passive, how about simply changing 1K magicka to:ExistingRug61 wrote: »Don’t get me wrong, I agree that Argonian could use a change to its racials as it’s lacking. It’s too unfocused. But the actual set bonus worth is about right (although I could easily be persuaded that ZOS is over valuing elemental resistance) hence my suggestions of reducing less useful bonuses to buff more useful bonuses, as this would increase Argonians gameplay strength without simply over budgeting it mathematically.
"Gain 1000 magicka or stamina, depending on your highest resource pool"
^ That way we would still remain within "power budget" as you would not get both mag & stam at the same time. This would also allow to leave potion passive as it is on live server (4000). It would even fit the lore as Argonians are known for their "adaptivnes".
I think they nerfed the potion passive because all the other sustain races got nerfed from the sustain CPs being removed. They probably didn't want Argonians to overperform. And yes, I realize how silly it sounds to call Argonians overperforming.
I agree that this is likely why it was done.
However what ZOS forgot was that in the previous update all the recovery buffs like endurance were doubled, so by the same logic the Argonian passive should have been buffed at that point to keep it balanced, but that didn’t happen.
At this point, PTS potion passive is more or less a "flavour" passive with those Values...0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some changes are not that important to comment on, but some should be touched upon definitely.
Imperial finally getting an edge, would like more bold changes with khajiit also as it's still lacking imo.
But there are argonians, redguards and bosmer where I can only shake my head. Healing passive is still worse then any spell damage one, it should at least add spell/weapon damage to healing abilities to be more-less mirroring, also potion passive nerf when it needed a buff? K.
Sustain was never an issue with redguard, no need to add more when it's still as useless as before.
Bosmer back to the bin, don't even wanna comment on that. At least sustain is still here, but having no extra edge I have no use for it nor any enjoyment left, was good till it lasted.1 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As someone who mains an Argonian healer I know I compromised to the sake of lore appeal. With these changes it doesn’t seem to me that Argonians are even 4th best as healers. Strongly considering a race change. Which would you say are now the top healing races?
Healing isn't really that dependent on race (which is all the more reason a heal-focused race is nonsense - all DD races can heal, too). On live you overheal most of the time anyway, so a lot of spell damage isn't a must have (unless you want to off-DPS, which is quite likely in vet dungeons). Sustain is helpful but can be easily accomplished with other means outside of race bonuses. I'd say a large magicka pool is the most beneficial bonus you can get from racials.
As far as raw healing power goes, Altmer, Dunmer, Orc and Bretons will probably be best, with Bretons and Imperial being the best sustain options.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
Bodycounter✭✭✭✭There is so much to say about the racials. They should stop being focussed on every racials being an exact multiplicative of set bonusses. This will never balance them for real ingame purposes. Let's see:
Argonian:
- Increased healing by 6%: That's not enough and a very bad passive. Flat 258 spell damage will always be better than this.
- Increased Max Health, Stamina and Magicka by 1000: This is fine.
- Potion restore nerf: completely uncalled for.
Breton:
- Seems fine, best magicka sustain combined with solid Spell Resistance.
Dark Elf:
- Almost 2000 Max Stamina and Magicka: Really good.
- Flat 258 Spell and Weapon Damage: Really good.
- Incredibly strong hybrid choice now, imho too strong.
High Elf:
- Slightly better Magicka DPS than Dark Elf, so still number 1.
- Zero idea why they got Weapon Damage, makes absolutely no sense. Easier on the server?
- Restore passive is okay.. i guess?
Imperial:
- The 6% cost reduction is nice.
- Flat 2000 Max Health and Stamina is still nice but fills no real niche and has no flavor.
- Reduce their Max Health to 1000 and give them 2000 Max Magicka, so they are good hybrids?
Khajiit:
- Triple Max Stats to 915 is kinda nice, but still too low.
- Health recovery still feels completely out of place?
- 12% more Critical looks nice but Crit Chance will get nerfed... probably undertuned?
- Give them 129 Weapon and Spell Damage to compensate.
- Get rid of the reduced stealth detection radius instead, noone wants that anymore.
Nord:
- They should still be more than fine.
Orc:
- Needed to get nerfed, their racials have been too stacked for ages now
- Max Stamina reduce was fine
- The passive healing sounds stupidly good, though?
- Why the hell do they get Spell Damage? Their passive is still overloaded.
- Still number 1 Stamina DPS.
- 10% inspiration is still one of best gimmicky passives after Argonian.
Redguards:
- Please man, what the hell? They are so bad at this point.
Wood Elf:
- No strong opinion, but i liked the dodge roll theme.
- Change Stamina Recovery to Weapon Damage and they should be a nice option?
TLDR: Orc, High Elf and Dunmer still feel too strong in comparison because they get all the sought after stats and are pretty overloaded. Orcs are now viable Magicka DPS and High Elfs are now viable Stamina DPS?!
TLDR2: Argonian, Khajiit and Redguards get the short end of the stick. Argonians healing passive is undertuned. Redguards got too much sustain noone needs or wanted. Khajiit are meant to be a good hybrid race but falls completely short against Dunmer.
My suggestions for Khajiit:
1. Increases Max Health, Stamina and Magicka by 1000.
2. Increases Health, Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 65. Gain 129 Spell and Weapon Damage.
3. Increases Critical Strike Damage and Critical Healing by 10%.
My suggestions for Argonian:
1. Increases Healing done by 12% and Healing received by 6%.
2. Increases Max Health, Stamina and Magicka by 1000. Gain Disease and Poison Resistance.
3. When you drink a potion, you restore 4000 Health, Magicka and Stamina.Edited by Bodycounter on February 23, 2021 11:02AM3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess it is too late for any kind of feedback. It seems that this round of PTS is final...
Part of me hopes that it was not an actual "racial rebalance", but more like a something related more to CP rebalance, as we did not had any official feedback thread regarding racial changes. And of course, the non-official ones got ignored.
So maybe we will have another racial rebalance, hopefully sooner than 2+ years :'(
Anyway, I have noticed that whenever ZOS changes something that they know will cause some uproar, they do not make any feedback thread for it, presenting it as an "accomplished fact".0 -
Bodycounter✭✭✭✭Orc: The same logic as with altmer applies here. You have the stronges stamina race that is now better at magicka useage than other magicka races, i.e. Argonians, Bretons.
Sure they got 1k stam taken from them, but honestly? That will change very little.
I think Orc is the best example why ZoS' racial balance is completely off at this point. Orcs got 1000 Stamina taken away from them but got 258 Spell Damage and 2125 Healing every 4 seconds to compensate. They are now better healers than Argonians.
Orcs have increased Health and Stamina, increased Weapon and Spell Damage, increased Sprint Speed, decreased Sprint cost, heal themselves for 530 Health every second and get increased Inspiration. Their passive is so stacked with goodies!
Edited by Bodycounter on February 23, 2021 11:59AM4 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
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A real buff is really needed, I agree.(...)
Redguard: as it is the most cut and dry: They need a buff. They are in a really bad place and the change of racial passives would be a nice time to give them some love.
(...)
^ Will this be enough to bring any REAL n positive changes to the current real bad place Redguards are in?!ZOS on patch notes 6.3.0 wrote:Adrenaline Rush:
Increased the Stamina restored from this passive to 1005, up from 950.
This passive now procs on any damage done, rather than Direct Damage."Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
0 -
Bodycounter✭✭✭✭redlink1979 wrote: »Will this be enough to bring any REAL n positive changes to the current real bad place Redguards are in?!
No because Stamina sustain is currently not a problem and will most likely be even less of a problem with the next update.
Redguard:
1. Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.
2. Reduces the cost of your weapon abilities by 8%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
3. Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
4. When you deal damage, you restore 1005 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
1. This part of the passive is actually fine i think. The food duration is one of the better ones.
2. Weapon abilities are not used enough at this point. It should reduce the cost of all Stamina abilities by 7% like Bretons for Magicka.
3. Large chunk of Maximum Stamina is fine for this race. Snare reduce is fine.
4. This passive should reflect the Redguards proficiency for melee combat and weapons. Like "When you deal damage in melee range, you cause gaping wounds on the enemy, leeching 350 Health and 150 Stamina every second for 5 seconds." Giving them flat Weapon Damage would be kinda boring and redundant with other races.
If you want to mirror Bretons and Redguards you could give Redguards additional Phyiscal Resistance that doubles when bleeding or being poisoned/diseased. This could completely replace the current fourth passive but im not sure how useful this could be.
Edited by Bodycounter on February 23, 2021 12:54PM1 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭Anyone know how many free race changes we get?
Seeing as the only thing Bosmer was good for was PvP NB, now it's not even BiS for that. Much better off going Dunmer or Imperial
Orcs in PvE will all want to change to Dunmer as it has highest Stamina DPS now
Redguard is still the worst so if anyone has any left they may as well change now as they've got no love.
Rest are OK. Some people may want to change Nord to Imperial.Edited by ThePedge on February 23, 2021 12:56PM0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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I would argue that Argonians will probably be the worst race (passive wise) next patch. They were never bis at anything. They were decent tanks and ok-ish in PvP because of their sustain - but that is going to change drastically.Rest are OK.
Also, curently Argonian poison & disease resistance is bugged on PTS and is "tooltip only" and it does not apply to an actual resistances (it is not working).
Resourceful passive similarly is plagued with a bug that is causing it to be affected by Battle Spirit (or maybe it is Battle Spirit that is bugged). So in PvP it is only something like 1500 health restored when you drink a potion...
So if those 2 bugs are not going to be fixed by the time patch will hit live server (and sonething tells me it won't) - Argonians will be effectively missing one passive and once in Cyro, their other passive will be 20% weaker...
Anyway this racial rebalance was kinda nonsensical. I mean ZOS literally buffed strongest races and nerfed weakest ones that needed buffs the most .. WT#...
Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on February 23, 2021 1:27PM0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bodycounter wrote: »redlink1979 wrote: »Will this be enough to bring any REAL n positive changes to the current real bad place Redguards are in?!
No because Stamina sustain is currently not a problem and will most likely be even less of a problem with the next update.
Redguard:
1. Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.
2. Reduces the cost of your weapon abilities by 8%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
3. Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
4. When you deal damage, you restore 1005 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
1. This part of the passive is actually fine i think. The food duration is one of the better ones.
2. Weapon abilities are not used enough at this point. It should reduce the cost of all Stamina abilities by 7% like Bretons for Magicka.
3. Large chunk of Maximum Stamina is fine for this race. Snare reduce is fine.
4. This passive should reflect the Redguards proficiency for melee combat and weapons. Like "When you deal damage in melee range, you cause gaping wounds on the enemy, leeching 350 Health and 150 Stamina every second for 5 seconds." Giving them flat Weapon Damage would be kinda boring and redundant with other races.
If you want to mirror Bretons and Redguards you could give Redguards additional Phyiscal Resistance that doubles when bleeding or being poisoned/diseased. This could completely replace the current fourth passive but im not sure how useful this could be.
Id personally trade the snare reduce for practically anything especially anything damage related even if it means a nerf on sustain. It is useless at best especially when it does nothing against roots.
Additionally a bow and a staff are weapons too. Best to extend your suggested passive towards those too.Edited by JobooAGS on February 23, 2021 1:54PM0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dunmer and orc still do better than redguard even with green food (hearty corn chowder)
Here is some math
Dunmer:
Dunmer gets 258 wd 1910 stam and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 6485 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and only having major and minor brutality (keep in mind that you can get better numbers with adding more fighters guild abilites or being a class like templar or sorc that have weapon damage or even stam intergrated in their kit)
you would get 361 wd and 6874 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 658
which would get a total effective wd of 1019
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 6615 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 633
which would get a total effective wd of 1005 (Interesting)
Orc:
Orc gets 258 wd 1000 stam and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 5575 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 361 wd and 5910 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 566
which would get a total effective wd of 927
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 5687 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 544
which would get a total effective wd of 916 (Interesting)
Redguard:
Redguard gets 2000 stam and 6048 stam from hearty corn chowder
a total of 8048 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 8531 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 816
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 8209 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 785
We even can include a stam sorc for the best case sinerio (sorc gets 8% more stam)
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and otherwise the same buffs as above
you would get 9174 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 878
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 8853 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 847
Lets throw in Altmer for poops and giggles
Altmer:
Altmer gets 258 wd and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 4575 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 361 wd and 4850 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 464
which would get a total effective wd of 825
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 4667 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 447
which would get a total effective wd of 819
An Altmer sorc would also get 2% extra wd in addition to the 8% stam so we have to calculate that in if we were to compare.
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 366 wd and 5216 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 499
which would get a total effective wd of 865
redguard is only marginally better and this is only assuming that the only other source of wd is bound arraments, which means you are not including other skills like hurricane, beast trap, dbos and more) with other multipliers existing and bar set ups being of high variance depending on the build, we can still assume that altmer will come up on top.
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 377 wd and 5033 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 482
which would get a total effective wd of 859 (clearly better than redguard)
it is just sad that altmer is even legitamently comparable to redguard and worse still surpassing it imho.
TL;DR: Dunmer > Orc > Altmer > Redguard
Redguard needs some buffs if it wants to stay competitive. It can be a damage boost or even a twin blade and blunt style buff when involving weapons.
Someone smarter than me can calculate in how bosmer compares, but I do know that the 950 pen ignores 1.44% of the target's mitigation, a mace is now 1650 pen and a sword is 142 weapon damage an axe is 4% crit damage and a sharp weapon is about 1.6k penEdited by JobooAGS on February 27, 2021 11:09PM1 -
TheSpin✭✭✭I Agree that Redguard Needs a better Niche than pure stamina sustain, but I personally think it would be more appropriate to push them more towards tank versus purely tweaking damage potential.
New Redguard Racials:
1. Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.
2. Reduces the cost of your weapon abilities by 8%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
3. Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
4. When you deal damage, you restore 1005 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
My Reguard Suggestion:
1. Is fine and fits even better with tank flavor
2. Expand discount to include bash, dodge, and block... totally fits description of martial training
3. Throw enough health their way to make them tankier...say 1000 health... totally fits desciption of conditioning
4. No change
This would basically make them somewhat on par with Orcs but with a different flavor. Both Orc Health regen offsets Redguard Stam regen. Both Orc and Redguard would have mobility/combat buffs with orc sprint buff & damage boosts being in line with more bullish tactics vs. block/bash/dodge reduction fitting the grace of a sword master, and finally both would have more equal base stat buffs..
Just my thoughts.. I know dps is king, but you can't make every race the "best" dps race...0 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait, so Bosmer are still stuck with the stupid detection passive? Ugh, I had hoped that was being removed finally at least. I’m glad the bonus to penetration will no longer require dodge-roll, that is good! I’m baffled at not returning Bosmers’ rightful stealth bonus though. It’s like someone as ZOS is refuses to admit that they messed up. 4 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Wait, so Bosmer are still stuck with the stupid detection passive? Ugh, I had hoped that was being removed finally at least. I’m glad the bonus to penetration will no longer require dodge-roll, that is good! I’m baffled at not returning Bosmers’ rightful stealth bonus though. It’s like someone as ZOS is refuses to admit that they messed up.
That's exactly what it is: someone's precious vanity is worth more than 20+ years of world-building and lore. So Bosmer get stuck with a garbage passive that isn't worth anything outside of Cyrodiil.
Doesn't matter anymore what I may think. It's not like I'm a paying customer anymore.Edited by Cundu_Ertur on March 6, 2021 1:57AMTaking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.3 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Agree that Redguard Needs a better Niche than pure stamina sustain, but I personally think it would be more appropriate to push them more towards tank versus purely tweaking damage potential.
New Redguard Racials:
1. Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.
2. Reduces the cost of your weapon abilities by 8%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
3. Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
4. When you deal damage, you restore 1005 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
My Reguard Suggestion:
1. Is fine and fits even better with tank flavor
2. Expand discount to include bash, dodge, and block... totally fits description of martial training
3. Throw enough health their way to make them tankier...say 1000 health... totally fits desciption of conditioning
4. No change
This would basically make them somewhat on par with Orcs but with a different flavor. Both Orc Health regen offsets Redguard Stam regen. Both Orc and Redguard would have mobility/combat buffs with orc sprint buff & damage boosts being in line with more bullish tactics vs. block/bash/dodge reduction fitting the grace of a sword master, and finally both would have more equal base stat buffs..
Just my thoughts.. I know dps is king, but you can't make every race the "best" dps race...
The main issue I have with redguards migrating to a tank race is that being a tank (rank and file soldier) is more or less lore breaking. As previous inscriptions of other game state, redguards are 1. weapon masters (of all weapons) who tend to favor swords, 2. Scouts and skirmishers who are unmatched in guerrilla warfare and much less so rank and file soldiers0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dunmer and orc still do better than redguard even with green food (hearty corn chowder)
Here is some math
Dunmer:
Dunmer gets 258 wd 1910 stam and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 6485 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and only having major and minor brutality (keep in mind that you can get better numbers with adding more fighters guild abilites or being a class like templar or sorc that have weapon damage or even stam intergrated in their kit)
you would get 361 wd and 6874 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 658
which would get a total effective wd of 1019
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 6615 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 633
which would get a total effective wd of 1005 (Interesting)
Orc:
Orc gets 258 wd 1000 stam and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 5575 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 361 wd and 5910 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 566
which would get a total effective wd of 927
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 5687 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 544
which would get a total effective wd of 916 (Interesting)
Redguard:
Redguard gets 2000 stam and 6048 stam from hearty corn chowder
a total of 8048 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 8531 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 816
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 8209 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 785
We even can include a stam sorc for the best case sinerio (sorc gets 8% more stam)
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and otherwise the same buffs as above
you would get 9174 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 878
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 8853 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 847
Lets throw in Altmer for poops and giggles
Altmer:
Altmer gets 258 wd and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 4575 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 361 wd and 4850 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 464
which would get a total effective wd of 825
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 4667 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 447
which would get a total effective wd of 819
An Altmer sorc would also get 2% extra wd in addition to the 8% stam so we have to calculate that in if we were to compare.
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 366 wd and 5216 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 499
which would get a total effective wd of 865
redguard is only marginally better and this is only assuming that the only other source of wd is bound arraments, which means you are not including other skills like hurricane, beast trap, dbos and more) with other multipliers existing and bar set ups being of high variance depending on the build, we can still assume that altmer will come up on top.
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 377 wd and 5033 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 482
which would get a total effective wd of 859 (clearly better than redguard)
it is just sad that altmer is even legitamently comparable to redguard and worse still surpassing it imho.
TL;DR: Dunmer > Orc > Altmer > Redguard
Redguard needs some buffs if it wants to stay competitive. It can be a damage boost or even a twin blade and blunt style buff when involving weapons.
Someone smarter than me can calculate in how bosmer compares, but I do know that the 950 pen ignores 1.44% of the target's mitigation, a mace is now 1650 pen and a sword is 142 weapon damage an axe is 4% crit damage and a sharp weapon is about 1.6k pen
How much of a gap percentage-wise is it from the Dunmer to the Redgaurd?0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Dunmer and orc still do better than redguard even with green food (hearty corn chowder)
Here is some math
Dunmer:
Dunmer gets 258 wd 1910 stam and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 6485 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and only having major and minor brutality (keep in mind that you can get better numbers with adding more fighters guild abilites or being a class like templar or sorc that have weapon damage or even stam intergrated in their kit)
you would get 361 wd and 6874 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 658
which would get a total effective wd of 1019
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 6615 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 633
which would get a total effective wd of 1005 (Interesting)
Orc:
Orc gets 258 wd 1000 stam and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 5575 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 361 wd and 5910 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 566
which would get a total effective wd of 927
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 5687 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 544
which would get a total effective wd of 916 (Interesting)
Redguard:
Redguard gets 2000 stam and 6048 stam from hearty corn chowder
a total of 8048 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 8531 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 816
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 8209 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 785
We even can include a stam sorc for the best case sinerio (sorc gets 8% more stam)
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and otherwise the same buffs as above
you would get 9174 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 878
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 8853 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 847
Lets throw in Altmer for poops and giggles
Altmer:
Altmer gets 258 wd and 4575 stam from lava foot soup
a total of 258 wd and 4575 stam
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 361 wd and 4850 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 464
which would get a total effective wd of 825
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 372 wd and 4667 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 447
which would get a total effective wd of 819
An Altmer sorc would also get 2% extra wd in addition to the 8% stam so we have to calculate that in if we were to compare.
with multipliers assuming 5/1/1 and the same buffs as above
you would get 366 wd and 5216 stam
If we were to convert the stam to wd assuming a 10.45 stam to 1 wd ratio, you would get an effective wd of 499
which would get a total effective wd of 865
redguard is only marginally better and this is only assuming that the only other source of wd is bound arraments, which means you are not including other skills like hurricane, beast trap, dbos and more) with other multipliers existing and bar set ups being of high variance depending on the build, we can still assume that altmer will come up on top.
with 7 medium with the same buffs as above
you would get 377 wd and 5033 stam
we were to convert the stam to wd you would get an effective wd of 482
which would get a total effective wd of 859 (clearly better than redguard)
it is just sad that altmer is even legitamently comparable to redguard and worse still surpassing it imho.
TL;DR: Dunmer > Orc > Altmer > Redguard
Redguard needs some buffs if it wants to stay competitive. It can be a damage boost or even a twin blade and blunt style buff when involving weapons.
Someone smarter than me can calculate in how bosmer compares, but I do know that the 950 pen ignores 1.44% of the target's mitigation, a mace is now 1650 pen and a sword is 142 weapon damage an axe is 4% crit damage and a sharp weapon is about 1.6k pen
How much of a gap percentage-wise is it from the Dunmer to the Redgaurd?
Assuming these set ups (keep in mind the difference will be greater if you include other % modifiers as this will cause the wd bonus to increase or if you use similar foods ie arteaum food vs bi stat instead as there is a smaller gap between the max stam portions of the foods) there is about a 3% gap between the races0
