Maintenance for the week of September 29:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
Please let us disable DLC dungeons for ESO+ users
-
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭Maybe I'm a masochist, but I like random vet que these days as a DPS. It's a faster que, and dlc dungeons generally go well with a semi competent support. From my perspective, I'm often joining a competent 3- person group who's farming something, and sometimes I wind up with an unexpected trifecta achievement. The good runs outweigh the bad, and motif pages have been piling up.7 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »Make 2 queues, one random non-DLC, one DLC, give each one their own separate daily reward. It will increase people in the non-DLC queue from the people who now don't queue to avoid the DLC, will add reward chasers who queue specifically for DLC dungeons to fill the DLC queue, and reduce quitting from people who don't want one or the other, and those who want both can now do both and get extra rewards. All the valuable rewards from dungeons are bound anyway, so this doesn't impact the economy at all, win-win for everyone.
That in no way addresses the problem the OP is talking about. If I don't have a sub, I can join the better reward queue and, at worst, I get an IC dungeon. Add a sub and I get, on average, a harder dungeon than the person who doesn't sub.
We need to get rid of penalties for subbing.
Move the IC dungeons to Girion, since they are now technically base game anyway. Problem solved.The Moot Councillor0 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »Make 2 queues, one random non-DLC, one DLC, give each one their own separate daily reward. It will increase people in the non-DLC queue from the people who now don't queue to avoid the DLC, will add reward chasers who queue specifically for DLC dungeons to fill the DLC queue, and reduce quitting from people who don't want one or the other, and those who want both can now do both and get extra rewards. All the valuable rewards from dungeons are bound anyway, so this doesn't impact the economy at all, win-win for everyone.
That in no way addresses the problem the OP is talking about. If I don't have a sub, I can join the better reward queue and, at worst, I get an IC dungeon. Add a sub and I get, on average, a harder dungeon than the person who doesn't sub.
We need to get rid of penalties for subbing.
Move the IC dungeons to Girion, since they are now technically base game anyway. Problem solved.
They are not base game. You need to go into the Crown Store and buy the DLC for 0 crowns. Players who buy only the game and never visit the Crown Store do not have access to IC. A family member of mine joined the game last month and discovered he could not get to IC or its dungeons without purchasing the pack. It didn't cost him anything but time and a few clicks, but it was still technically a transaction. Same thing when Epic Games gives away games for free -- you still have to go through the purchase process and get a receipt, just like you would for something that cost money.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MudcrabAttack wrote: »Maybe I'm a masochist, but I like random vet que these days as a DPS. It's a faster que, and dlc dungeons generally go well with a semi competent support. From my perspective, I'm often joining a competent 3- person group who's farming something, and sometimes I wind up with an unexpected trifecta achievement. The good runs outweigh the bad, and motif pages have been piling up.
You sound like me. I've been doing pugging a lot more lately, and if I'm doing a vet DLC, I do typically run as a healer, but sometimes I'll take my tanks or DPS in as well, and it's been fun to rack up some of these new achievements and especially the motif pages, since that's the main thing I'm after anymore is motifs, skins, and mounts.
Aesthetics end-game ftw1 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm surprised this isn't an option already. Why are we forced into dlc content? If it were a couple dungeons we'd just have to be lucky. Now the odds are against us, most dungeons are dlc! What do you want us, to cancel eso+?Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr6 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »Please don't change it, it will stop 90% of the people to queue for random, and help when you are trying to grind a specific dungeon...
i remember trying to farm tzo from frostvault as a dps and wait 30-45 min between each... now if people can disable them... i will prolly wait 4 hours instead
possibly... that said, make the rewards worth the additional DLC dungeon hassle.
If they arent going to split the queue (no indication they will as this topic comes up A LOT), doubling the rewards if you draw a DLC would certainly go a long way to reduce the complaining (which is justified IMO).
HOOAH! make it so captain!
1 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't have problems with random DLC dungeons - on normal, of course.
I would never do random vet dungeon though, even if it was FG1
I only queue for specific vet dungeons (DLC or not), when I want certain achievement or monster helm.
It would be nice solution if we simply got double rewards (coffers, transmute stones, experience) for completing DLC random dungeon. This way, subscribers and people who purchased DLC dungeons would be extra rewarded, and non-subscribers or people who haven't purchased dungeon DLCs would be at some disadvantage.For non ESO + subscribers the DLC option is already unchecked with purple rewards.
Everyone assumes that if somebody is not subscriber, they can't have DLC dungeons permanently unlocked... There are people who actually buy dungeon DLCs even without subscribing.Zos: 'Paying customers are complaining about the length of DLC dungeons!'
Zos: 'Ok let's nerf them!'
Us : 'nooooo!'
Me: 'Yes! Nerfing difficult content is the only time I welcome nerfs'
Even beyond just NERFING, dungeons like CITY of ASH II could use some re-working.1 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People who find dlc dungeons too hard and long, have you thought about why that is? Maybe its because you have been avoiding them and only like to do FG1 and bail if anything else pops. Maybe if you tried to improve and learn the mechs you wouldn't find dlc ones hard anymore?5 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People who find dlc dungeons too hard and long, have you thought about why that is? Maybe its because you have been avoiding them and only like to do FG1 and bail if anything else pops. Maybe if you tried to improve and learn the mechs you wouldn't find dlc ones hard anymore?
Maybe?
And maybe harder/longer dungeons should have bigger/better rewards?8 -
Xen0rm✭✭I do hate longer dungeon if I just want a quick RND and I am a subber.
BUT this is why it is called random and has more rewards because you have more "risk" queuing for this kind of dungeon. And sometimes I do get a dungeon in RND for a chance to get my wanted set, especially now, with the collecting system, it doesn't matter what trait or color (maybe jewelry makes a bit difference) you get. And I don't feel a disadvantage as a subber cause I do get more stuff out of this. And if the group is a good or even ok group, we could clear DLC dungeon in relatively short time too.
So I am happy with what it now is.0 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »Imagine trying to do a random dungeon for the 10 crystals and getting Lair of Maarselok...
how bad/long is Lair of Maarselok?...ive never done it before. am curious
If you know the mechs it's smooth. A solid group that knows mechs can get vet done in 25-30 mins.
If you don't know mechs, it's impossible bc some LoM mechs can't simply be skipped by brute force. You must play the mechs to clear even in normal.
The mechs themselves aren't so difficult, but they do require more group coordination and communication than your average dungeon which can be harder than the actual dungeon in a pug.0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People who find dlc dungeons too hard and long, have you thought about why that is? Maybe its because you have been avoiding them and only like to do FG1 and bail if anything else pops. Maybe if you tried to improve and learn the mechs you wouldn't find dlc ones hard anymore?
The assumptions here are interesting.
There's little doubt that the design of the DLC dungeons is more difficult than most of the base game dungeons. Depending on one's capabilities as a player and the group one ends up with, DLC dungeons are a significant challenge even on normal. When most people have limited time to invest in recreational activities, having to deal with these longer, more difficult dungeons can be an issue. Some are simply not interested in running them most of the time, or perhaps even at all.5 -
PaddyVu✭✭✭✭In fact you are looking to disable DLCs dungeon to play short dungeon for crystal, why not asking enable FG1 only to spam over and over again haha3 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd prefer a 3rd queue.
1 - Easy Normals
2 - Tough Normals & Easy Veterans
3 - Tough Veterans
Then just redistribute rewards appropriately between the queues. Undaunted dailies should also have 1 quest for each queue w/ appropriate rewards as well. I'd suggest 5/10/15 transmutes for your random queue and 1/2/3 keys for your undaunted quest (remove the HM req altogether).
*There are also a handful of Vet DLC Dungeons that have no business in any queue. Just make DoM, LoM, MoS, etc premade only. If you have to PUG to find a group for these, you probably don't belong there anyway.
I've been banging the 3 queues drum for a while.
At least, I've been tapping it. I didn't really care about randoms until the recent changes making their rewards more significant.0 -
Flamebait✭✭✭So from what I am gathering here then, rather than make 2 queue's so people can do non-DLC or DLC as they choose, people think it is better to have people drop out of DLC dungeons once they spawn in instead. I am actually rather glad to see this thread so far as it has done absolutely nothing but reinforce the idea that I will do my best to avoid the queue so that I can avoid all the people in it. When I play I get chunks of time about 20-30 minutes, which means no chance to DLC dungeons, which also means that the majority of the queue itself. It honestly looks more like it will be beneficial to stop supporting the game rather than to continue since by ending ESO+ I get to lose the DLC's even though I will have to deal with holding a ton of mats on alts until the free weeks to drop them back in the crafting bag.3
-
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Then we can also extend the discussion and ask: Why do you get the same geode for a HM Fungal Grotto 1 and e.g. HM Stone Garden? That's just absolutely ridiculous.4
-
Stokowski✭✭✭How is the random queue currently resolved?
1. Party formed from random signups that create a Dps-Dps-Tank-Healer group, then random dungeon selected from what's available to those players.
2. Party starts with one player signing up for specific dungeon, then the group is filled out (DDTH) from random signups that have the selected dungeon available.
Because, if method #2 is ever employed by the game, then having the ability to "deselect" DLC dungeons from your random queue will make it that much harder for the individual players looking to run those dungeons to get a group.
Edited by Stokowski on March 3, 2021 3:15PM0 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because, if method #2 is ever employed by the game, then having the ability to "deselect" DLC dungeons from your random queue will make it that much harder for the individual players looking to run those dungeons to get a group.
Not really. What happens today is
- People queue for random
- They see its a harder DLC
- They either go to the first boss to see if the party is good enough (or can carry them) and quit if not, or they just quit immediately, or just idle in the hope of being kicked
that's worse if anything.
Yes a) random solo should be a thing and b) crystals ought to depend on difficulty (say 5 for normal, 10 for dlc or vet non dlc, 15 for vet dlc) but that's only half the problem.
In guilds nobody runs the DLC dungeons for random anyway because you take it in turn to bring a below level 45, and when your low level farmer hits 45 you delete it and make another one. 2 low level farming toons a person and four of you can do 80 crystals in 30 minutes or less.
Too many toons not enough time1 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭we already have the ability to select multiple dungeons when we que for a specific dungeon, so I'm not sure why we couldn't select all the dungeons we want in the mix for a random dungeon. IMO, most DLC dungeons are just not enjoyable with a pug group, even on normal, because they're more mechanics driven and it is just a pain trying to do them with random people.1 -
jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭A major catch is the fact that many DLC dungeons are harder, on "normal", than original-content dungeons on "veteran". You can be deliberately queuing "normal" because you know that this toon isn't up to "veteran" yet even though they're technically a high enough level, and then get thrown into something like MHK or MGF or SG or LOM... when frankly you might have a better chance of at least being carried through Veteran Wayrest 1 than through Normal DLC, even if you couldn't pull your weight.
You could even split the queue thematically, by the dungeon quest givers - "Random - Maj", "Random - Glirion", "Random - Urgalag"... although even then, some of Maj's "II" dungeons are harder than Glirion's, although the "I" dungeons are easier: but at least this would work thematically in-game.
XP rewards could also be greater or lesser depending on which random you wanted: like, if adjusted for character level, 100k for "random - Maj", 125k for "random - Glirion", 150k for "random - Urgalag", plus an extra 50k for veteran.2 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »
I assume you DPS. As a tank, you get sucked into a lot of failed groups. I stopped helping stuck groups on pledges after 3 straight queues brought me to groups stuck at bosses too far along for me to get credit for the pledge. Often it is because the tank saw the dps had no hope and cut bait.Completely agree.
People always try to argue that it is a random queue. But they miss the point that by not supporting the game with a subscription, the hardest dungeon you have to endure for a random is City of Ash 2. That is far from random when not providing money eliminates half the dungeons from consideration from the queue. It's nonsense. And it only gets worse every time dlc dungeons are added to the game.
But it is not a random queue, it is a LFG queue where the people who queue random are used to fill up the groups that queue for certain dungeons. And since most people apparently queue for DLC dungeons (because there are more of them, for the gear they drop or just because they really don't want to run that base game dungeon again), people who are queuing for random dungeon get a DLC dungeon more often.
The reason DLC dungeons pop a lot is because more people quit them or fail them requiring it to pull ESO+ subscribers in to fill groups.
The fact still remains that a paid subscriber to the game is forced into harder content if they chose to do a random when a non paying player gets easy dungeons all the time.
No, people rarely quit dungeons, be it base game or DLC.
...
I play all roles, but when I solo queue random it is mostly as DPS since bad DPS is the first thing that will make dungeon runs fail, though I got more trifecta's on tank. The thing is, if you are half competent it doesn't matter how bad the group in your random normal queue is since if you survive that is enough and since it is normal it won't take ages anyway.DaveMoeDee wrote: »
You also misrepresent the dungeon situation. A minority of people are queueing for specific dungeons for gear. The majority are doing daily randoms or pledges. The people doing daily randoms generally do not want to do a DLC dungeon, but the one person queued for it sucks them into the dungeon. I will go ahead with the DLC dungeon in general, but it is quite common to be running a DLC dungeon where only 1 of 4 people wants to be there and 3 would have preferred a quicker base game dungeon.Completely agree.
People always try to argue that it is a random queue. But they miss the point that by not supporting the game with a subscription, the hardest dungeon you have to endure for a random is City of Ash 2. That is far from random when not providing money eliminates half the dungeons from consideration from the queue. It's nonsense. And it only gets worse every time dlc dungeons are added to the game.
But it is not a random queue, it is a LFG queue where the people who queue random are used to fill up the groups that queue for certain dungeons. And since most people apparently queue for DLC dungeons (because there are more of them, for the gear they drop or just because they really don't want to run that base game dungeon again), people who are queuing for random dungeon get a DLC dungeon more often.
The reason DLC dungeons pop a lot is because more people quit them or fail them requiring it to pull ESO+ subscribers in to fill groups.
The fact still remains that a paid subscriber to the game is forced into harder content if they chose to do a random when a non paying player gets easy dungeons all the time.
No, people rarely quit dungeons, be it base game or DLC.
...
I don't misinterpret the dungeon situation. I never stated that the majority of the people are queuing for gear, I gave you three reasons why combined more people are queuing for DLC dungeons than for base game.
You misinterpret the reason of the random dungeon tool. It is NOT a random finder, it is a LFG tool to FILL UP spots for people that queue for certain dungeons. Reasons why more people queue for these dungeons is there are more DLC dungeons, if they are looking for gear it is usually from a DLC dungeon and most people can't be arsed anymore to run base game dungeons. I NEVER stated that the majority of the players queues for DLC dungeons because of gear.
The point was that outside of pledges, there are barely reasons to queue for base game dungeons but some exist for pledges, I hope that is more clear now.DaveMoeDee wrote: »
And none of that matters. What matters is that subbing should not penalize players. If someone subs, now they are subservient to the whims of other players wanting to grind gear in long-running dungeons?Completely agree.
People always try to argue that it is a random queue. But they miss the point that by not supporting the game with a subscription, the hardest dungeon you have to endure for a random is City of Ash 2. That is far from random when not providing money eliminates half the dungeons from consideration from the queue. It's nonsense. And it only gets worse every time dlc dungeons are added to the game.
But it is not a random queue, it is a LFG queue where the people who queue random are used to fill up the groups that queue for certain dungeons. And since most people apparently queue for DLC dungeons (because there are more of them, for the gear they drop or just because they really don't want to run that base game dungeon again), people who are queuing for random dungeon get a DLC dungeon more often.
The reason DLC dungeons pop a lot is because more people quit them or fail them requiring it to pull ESO+ subscribers in to fill groups.
The fact still remains that a paid subscriber to the game is forced into harder content if they chose to do a random when a non paying player gets easy dungeons all the time.
No, people rarely quit dungeons, be it base game or DLC.
...
I agree with you on that, subbing should not penalize players. But I think it is clear why I think the situation as sketched in this thread is a little bit exaggerated. If you are half competent a normal DLC dungeon is maximum a 15 minutes run. And if you are not competent enough, enjoy and try to learn 2 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭How is the random queue currently resolved?
1. Party formed from random signups that create a Dps-Dps-Tank-Healer group, then random dungeon selected from what's available to those players.
2. Party starts with one player signing up for specific dungeon, then the group is filled out (DDTH) from random signups that have the selected dungeon available.
Because, if method #2 is ever employed by the game, then having the ability to "deselect" DLC dungeons from your random queue will make it that much harder for the individual players looking to run those dungeons to get a group.
It is method 2, the dungeon finder is not a random finder but a LFG tool.
Edit: it will also never be option 1 since then as an ESO+ player you will be punished almost never getting DLC dungeons (the content you pay for), since you will almost always have a non ESO+ player in the group.Edited by caperb on March 3, 2021 4:01PM1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭etchedpixels wrote: »
Yes a) random solo should be a thing and b) crystals ought to depend on difficulty (say 5 for normal, 10 for dlc or vet non dlc, 15 for vet dlc) but that's only half the problem.
Random solo is never going to be a thing because the purpose of the "random" queue is to allow players who are queueing for specific dungeons to fill their groups.
In fact, they should probably disallow queueing for random with a full group.
But I agree that having tiered rewards (in Crystals, since that seems to be the main drive for these requests now) based on the dungeon you get would be good.
So you only get 1 crystal if you get FG1 in normal, but 20 if you do LoM in vet.The Moot Councillor1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭As I said before, it seems there are a whole lot of people in this game who actually hate playing the content.3 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭etchedpixels wrote: »
Yes a) random solo should be a thing and b) crystals ought to depend on difficulty (say 5 for normal, 10 for dlc or vet non dlc, 15 for vet dlc) but that's only half the problem.
Random solo is never going to be a thing because the purpose of the "random" queue is to allow players who are queueing for specific dungeons to fill their groups.
In fact, they should probably disallow queueing for random with a full group.
But I agree that having tiered rewards (in Crystals, since that seems to be the main drive for these requests now) based on the dungeon you get would be good.
So you only get 1 crystal if you get FG1 in normal, but 20 if you do LoM in vet.
Tiered rewards is probably a reasonable solution to more than just this issue as well. Right now the rewards make random normals the path of least resistance. Give incentive in the form of transmutes and XP in tiers based on the difficulty or who the quest giver is and a portion of the fake tank issues will go away as well, albeit it will not eliminate them.
XP could be more of an incentive after the patch than the crystals are.0 -
F22nickell✭✭✭etchedpixels wrote: »
Yes a) random solo should be a thing and b) crystals ought to depend on difficulty (say 5 for normal, 10 for dlc or vet non dlc, 15 for vet dlc) but that's only half the problem.
Random solo is never going to be a thing because the purpose of the "random" queue is to allow players who are queueing for specific dungeons to fill their groups.
In fact, they should probably disallow queueing for random with a full group.
But I agree that having tiered rewards (in Crystals, since that seems to be the main drive for these requests now) based on the dungeon you get would be good.
So you only get 1 crystal if you get FG1 in normal, but 20 if you do LoM in vet.
We would just find away around this as well ... Grouping with a sub lvl 45 and only 3 people for example.
I am one of those people who does not want to do DLC dungeons to get my transmute stones ... it's not the difficulty, its the time involved. If farming transmutes and I get a DLC, I immediately bail, grab another toon, and try again. In fact, I keep a rotating pool of sub lvl 45 healers for farming transmutes. I will team with guildies who have the same and between us, we can run 9-18 farming runs with at least one sub lvl 45 on the team.
Adding DLCs to the random queue to allow players who are queueing for specific dungeons to fill their queue for specific dungeons will not provide that ... People will continue to bail immediately. The dungeon may pop, but odds are 10 seconds in you will be down to 1 or 2 players to complete it. If that is preferable to a longer initial wait, so be it, but the outcome won't change.
Changing rewards MAY get more people to run DLCs, but it won't change anything to me (or similar) ... I simply do not like doing DLC dungeons, I won't do DLC dungeons, and will bail EVERY SINGLE TIME on a random PUG. Hell, I will bail City of Ash 2 every time as well.
I recognize this is annoying to other players and, given the choice, will group with other guild members to avoid forcing random people to deal with this. However, if no group is available, ultimately, I am farming transmutes for myself and will do what I need to do to maximize MY time online.
Fix Wrothgar Relic Hunter for Pete's Sake! ... Until then ... ZOS=POS3 -
F22nickell✭✭✭I am one of "them" ... People who hate doing DLCs on a random pug ... I CAN do the content easily enough, I just don't WANT to do it.
I will be honest here ... Random dungeons = Transmute stone farming ... nothing more, nothing less.
If I want to get specific equipment, do the undaunted pledge, or just get that extra skill point, I don't do randoms, I pick the specific dungeon
Everyone has their thing ... Some people hate PVP, some people hate PVE ... Me, I hate long winded battles with cheesy mechanics that take 30-50 minutes in a PUG to complete for 10 transmute stones.
So I just adapt ...
1) Reduce the number of available people pugging DLCs by only running sub lvl 45 toons through the random, or my max toons with friends who also have a few sub lvl 45 toons built for the same purpose. Between us, we can farm as many transmute stones as we want in a day and never need to see a DLC dungeon.
or ...
2) BAIL IMMEDIATELY if Max toon gets DLC ... oh wait, I stopped running randoms on max toons awhile back. So see #1 above.
Fix Wrothgar Relic Hunter for Pete's Sake! ... Until then ... ZOS=POS1 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I agree. Anyone who thinks this idea sucks can always leave the option on. Everyone wins. I'm back subbing since i moved to xbox, but this was the main reason I stopped subbing on PS4 for the last few months. Was sick fed up getting put into these dungeons that were either midway through upon my arrival or folk would bail. They're also the dungeons that you get the "failed to jump" message. Never got that message in a base game dungeon, so I'm assuming it's a dlc issue only?
I don't blame anyone that bails when they land in these dungeons. most are a ballache when you know others are getting the likes of City of Ash, DC, FG etc because they don't sub. That said, I don't mind the IC dungeons at all. In fact, those are great. Those were done correctly. They don't feel like a chore. The name of the dungeon escapes me as I have only ever done it once and hated it, but I just bail if i land in that werewolf hunting dungeon. I play games for enjoyment, not to push through unenjoyable experiences. As I said, others are free to leave the opinion.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on March 3, 2021 9:06PM3