Class Balance without procs

Trayyacakes · February 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

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L_Nici wrote: »

If I take all my kills and deaths of my Stamsorc the last 3 days together, the classes are roughly divided as follows:

24.47% DKs; 14.55% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

21.45% Sorcs; 34.55% of my deaths, mainly against Magicka

18.55% Templar; 9.09% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

15.66% Nightblades; 14.55% of my deaths, even

12.76% Wardens; 18.18% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

6.45% Necros; 1.82% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

Total enemies killed: 810
Total deaths: 55
K/D: 14.73

As you can see there is a huge unbalance of 13.1% between the total number of Sorcs and their kills against me, which is the highest unbalance, positive or negative of all classes.
Which leads to the "conclusion", that Magsorcs are definitely the strongest class to play during those tests in CP campaigns as far as my Stamsorc is concerned, if you say that the number of players in percent should equal the kills in percent in a perfectly balanced game.

Sorcs have the highest % because of Endless Fury spammers. It's an "easy" class to play that has a pretty brainless mechanic for getting KBs. Easy = / = Too strong.

I agree but we can’t deny when ignoring proc sets, which I think you should when focusing on class balance(procs should definitely also be balanced), sorcs both mag and stam have an amazing kit. I wouldn’t say op or too strong just that they are one of the better put together classes... I don’t think every class should play the same way though, but I do believe some classes are lacking when compared to a class like sorc.

katorga · February 2021

Trayyacakes wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

If I take all my kills and deaths of my Stamsorc the last 3 days together, the classes are roughly divided as follows:

24.47% DKs; 14.55% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

21.45% Sorcs; 34.55% of my deaths, mainly against Magicka

18.55% Templar; 9.09% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

15.66% Nightblades; 14.55% of my deaths, even

12.76% Wardens; 18.18% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

6.45% Necros; 1.82% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

Total enemies killed: 810
Total deaths: 55
K/D: 14.73

As you can see there is a huge unbalance of 13.1% between the total number of Sorcs and their kills against me, which is the highest unbalance, positive or negative of all classes.
Which leads to the "conclusion", that Magsorcs are definitely the strongest class to play during those tests in CP campaigns as far as my Stamsorc is concerned, if you say that the number of players in percent should equal the kills in percent in a perfectly balanced game.

Sorcs have the highest % because of Endless Fury spammers. It's an "easy" class to play that has a pretty brainless mechanic for getting KBs. Easy = / = Too strong.

sorcs both mag and stam have an amazing kit.

It is not always the "best" in each area, but Sorc at least has all the pieces of class kit built in. A lot of classes don't.

In terms of the OP's kill/death numbers, there are more sorcs playing during the test, and that will skew the results far more than any balance issue. The absolute easiest class to set up for the no-proc test is sorc....it leverages max stat builds very well, either mag or stam.

Joy_Division · February 2021

Trayyacakes wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

If I take all my kills and deaths of my Stamsorc the last 3 days together, the classes are roughly divided as follows:

24.47% DKs; 14.55% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

21.45% Sorcs; 34.55% of my deaths, mainly against Magicka

18.55% Templar; 9.09% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

15.66% Nightblades; 14.55% of my deaths, even

12.76% Wardens; 18.18% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

6.45% Necros; 1.82% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

Total enemies killed: 810
Total deaths: 55
K/D: 14.73

As you can see there is a huge unbalance of 13.1% between the total number of Sorcs and their kills against me, which is the highest unbalance, positive or negative of all classes.
Which leads to the "conclusion", that Magsorcs are definitely the strongest class to play during those tests in CP campaigns as far as my Stamsorc is concerned, if you say that the number of players in percent should equal the kills in percent in a perfectly balanced game.

Sorcs have the highest % because of Endless Fury spammers. It's an "easy" class to play that has a pretty brainless mechanic for getting KBs. Easy = / = Too strong.

I agree but we can’t deny when ignoring proc sets, which I think you should when focusing on class balance(procs should definitely also be balanced), sorcs both mag and stam have an amazing kit. I wouldn’t say op or too strong just that they are one of the better put together classes... I don’t think every class should play the same way though, but I do believe some classes are lacking when compared to a class like sorc.

Well, as a Templar main I agree whole-heartedly

maxjapank · February 2021

I should edit that I have over 3600 spell dmg buffed, not 3300

Theignson · February 2021

So far in the proc test I have tested my stam NB and mag dk.

Both seemed to do well. Very few players right now have much dps, so survivability is high in Zerodil when I play PC/NA greyhost. I think I only died once on my NB (when I missed a jump in a tower, lol)

Sustain, damage, tankiness/resists, were all pretty good in these old sets.

On stam I used shacklebreaker (medium) plus spriggans. On Mag I used Crafty plus spinners.

Overall I think this restricted set test has enough play for everyone but it gets a little boring.

Trayyacakes · February 2021

maxjapank wrote: »

I should edit that I have over 3600 spell dmg buffed, not 3300

Is that with continuous?

maxjapank · February 2021

Trayyacakes wrote: »

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maxjapank wrote: »

I should edit that I have over 3600 spell dmg buffed, not 3300

Is that with continuous?

Yes
And minor and major sorcery

Dunning_Kruger · February 2021

All complainers didn’t respect the tech... smh

Sahidom · February 2021

colossalvoids wrote: »

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Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Short question: does malacath's ring work during this test?

Nope.

You can definitely notice the difference. You also notice the difference when proc sets are disabled.

You also notice class skill kit imbalance and how past decisions by ZOS moved to using proc sets to offset those imbalances. Hopefully, outside the test parameters they're taking notes on what they can do to balance and identify each class.

I could argue persuasively on all the merits when you balance combat mechanics around PVP.

Trayyacakes · February 2021

Sahidom wrote: »

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colossalvoids wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Short question: does malacath's ring work during this test?

Nope.

You can definitely notice the difference. You also notice the difference when proc sets are disabled.

You also notice class skill kit imbalance and how past decisions by ZOS moved to using proc sets to offset those imbalances. Hopefully, outside the test parameters they're taking notes on what they can do to balance and identify each class.

I could argue persuasively on all the merits when you balance combat mechanics around PVP.

In pve you can always adjust the mechanics and the mobs... pvp not so much.

Some classes have incomplete kits, some have an identity crisis, but some lack in damage in pvp and pve... balance is never truly attainable but at the moment it’s not really close.

jaws343 · February 2021

I think the biggest issue is, you can only balance classes without procs in mind if you intend to remove procs. There are classes that are already punishing with procs, if they are brought up at a base level they will be even more powerful with procs and the classes that don't do well with procs will be even worse.

Djinn_al_zahir · February 2021

Trayyacakes wrote: »

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exeeter702 wrote: »

Magblade sucks

What do they need? More reliable cloak? Reliable self burst heal? Ranged ultimate?

Yes.

Vetixio · February 2021

These tests have made Magicka classes slightly more viable but they're still outclassed by Stam classes damage, burst, healing and survivability. But it is nice to be slightly better in Cyro again even if it is just for 3 weeks. They need to buff Magicka classes to be on par with their Stam counterparts, buff Vamp and nerf Werewolf aka easy mode.

Emmagoldman · February 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

show previous quotes

L_Nici wrote: »

If I take all my kills and deaths of my Stamsorc the last 3 days together, the classes are roughly divided as follows:

24.47% DKs; 14.55% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

21.45% Sorcs; 34.55% of my deaths, mainly against Magicka

18.55% Templar; 9.09% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

15.66% Nightblades; 14.55% of my deaths, even

12.76% Wardens; 18.18% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

6.45% Necros; 1.82% of my deaths, mainly against Stamina

Total enemies killed: 810
Total deaths: 55
K/D: 14.73

As you can see there is a huge unbalance of 13.1% between the total number of Sorcs and their kills against me, which is the highest unbalance, positive or negative of all classes.
Which leads to the "conclusion", that Magsorcs are definitely the strongest class to play during those tests in CP campaigns as far as my Stamsorc is concerned, if you say that the number of players in percent should equal the kills in percent in a perfectly balanced game.

Sorcs have the highest % because of Endless Fury spammers. It's an "easy" class to play that has a pretty brainless mechanic for getting KBs. Easy = / = Too strong.

Yep, agree here. Even not in a coordinated group, just Zerg surfering along, i can position myself to wait for frag proc, HA, frag, execute where someone is getting focused. Same idea as a bow build.

Yet I feel WAY more useful on my magden, putting down huge major defile, heals, snares, chaining and buffing my group than the dmg I put out on sorc. Forever, "best class" gets narrowed down to the perspective of dmg dealing and people ignore how increadiably strong some classes are in group play.

Sahidom · February 2021

Vetixio wrote: »

These tests have made Magicka classes slightly more viable but they're still outclassed by Stam classes damage, burst, healing and survivability. But it is nice to be slightly better in Cyro again even if it is just for 3 weeks. They need to buff Magicka classes to be on par with their Stam counterparts, buff Vamp and nerf Werewolf aka easy mode.

Yeah. I was out dueling as a ranged character and the boundary limitation hurts without forfeiting. The d-swing onslaught meta is very brutal; once you go on defense, AND if you can't recover control, you are overwhelmed and dead with a magic class.