Selfish people skip the line you say. But do you realize that the line would be much longer for YOU if people didn't queue as fake roles.

renne wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

But most people get hung up in outdated Trinity roles here and seem to think all a tank does is poke and block.

I pugged into a random vet that turned out to be vMHK (I don't know why I thought it was a good idea and didn't quit on starting, but anyway). I'd gotten Alpha Predator like a week before with my own group, so I was entirely likely feeling over confident even with a bunch of randos.

In the garden, I'm running around trying to get all the interrupts on the spriggans and stranglers because no one else is, calling out for interrupts in chat when I'm chained into skeever form and I realise this was a terrible idea. Then we get to the Lurcher boss and wipe a couple of times. Other dps quite rightly drops group and the tank, who literally just spent the whole time holding block, not bothering to get interrupts on anyone at all or doing literally anything other than poking and blocking, gets on voice and goes off accusing me of buying my Alpha title despite the fact that I was working my butt off trying to make it work for the rest of the group. That was my cue to leave. I saw that exact tank in the next dungeon I queued for. I left that one too and went to bed.

Sometimes tanks think all they do is poke and block, too.

Right, but they're not "fake"... they're just bad. And a jerk, by the sound of it. Not really the same.

renne wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

But most people get hung up in outdated Trinity roles here and seem to think all a tank does is poke and block.

I pugged into a random vet that turned out to be vMHK (I don't know why I thought it was a good idea and didn't quit on starting, but anyway). I'd gotten Alpha Predator like a week before with my own group, so I was entirely likely feeling over confident even with a bunch of randos.

In the garden, I'm running around trying to get all the interrupts on the spriggans and stranglers because no one else is, calling out for interrupts in chat when I'm chained into skeever form and I realise this was a terrible idea. Then we get to the Lurcher boss and wipe a couple of times. Other dps quite rightly drops group and the tank, who literally just spent the whole time holding block, not bothering to get interrupts on anyone at all or doing literally anything other than poking and blocking, gets on voice and goes off accusing me of buying my Alpha title despite the fact that I was working my butt off trying to make it work for the rest of the group. That was my cue to leave. I saw that exact tank in the next dungeon I queued for. I left that one too and went to bed.

Sometimes tanks think all they do is poke and block, too.

And that may be why it's considered boring, because they really aren't tanking as they can in eso they are just being a meat shield barely doing the minimum then.
I mean that was kinda part of my point...

But you learned a valuable lesson, don't bother pugging, lmfao.

Neiska wrote: »

So, noobish question here, but it is semi-related to the topic.

Lets say we have a CP whatever-sorc, with DPS enough to tear the skies asunder, and is self sufficent defensively. For context, lets say they remove a skill from their bar and slot inner rage, that ranged taunt, and then cues for the tank role. Would something like that still count as a "fake tank"? I have never played a sorc to that level (yet), but I have read/watched things about them being suprisingly durable while still having good dps.

So in theory, they could just aoe burn trash down, and use their one inner rage taunt ability for bosses, right? And I am not suggesting doing this for like, trial runs or the advanced dungeons. (Im not to that level yet, my highest character is only level 40.)

Mostly I am just trying to understand where the "line" is, between a fake vs real tank in stats/skills. Is "any" build with a taunt a "tank"? And if so for what activies? From what I gather that would be plenty in normal dungeons and so on, but what about the harder dungeons/trials etc? I assume things like hitpoints and resistances would come into play here, but like I said, I havent gotten to that point myself yet and I am still learning the "boundries" of the "play your way" philisophy here in ESO.

@mobicera summed it up real well above, and I generally agree with what they said. But just to add a few personal thoughts on it, in regards to your question @Neiska :

It's largely about intention. If you're a damage dealer and you queue up as a tank, well... you're technically now a "fake" tank. BUT if you slot a taunt, try to hold the bosses still (where possible, obviously), and you can stay alive (without support from the healer... or "healer") then you're now a lot closer to a real tank! (As in, you're not who this thread is about; you're fine, imo.) Most fakers don't have the courtesy to do that much. It's the selfish ****s who queue up as tank but don't even slot a taunt -- as in, they purposely let the boss chase and murder whoever it wants until they are the last player standing -- that need to be fired out of a catapult. People like you describe -- who can taunt, survive, & dps all at the same time -- are a welcome addition to most any group... save for the ones who have an especially large stick up their butt about this "fake tank" issue. The more damage a tank can do while staying alive and doing "their job" the better, I say! Makes dungeons go faster, and often smoother.

Tanks can serve other important (or at least useful) functions too, though. Taunting bosses is kind of essential unless everyone (or at least whoever's being focused on) knows to hold them still and ideally facing away from the other group members. But there's also pulling together & CC'ing adds, debuffing enemies to make them easier to defeat and/or less dangerous to fight, buffing or protecting allies to be more resilient to danger in the first place (in ways the healer doesn't cover), and just generally controlling the flow of fights. None of this other stuff is really needed in most dungeons, but for good groups it sure can make things go smoother! Best I can think of is a weird bowling metaphor (sorry); a really good tank can take a dungeon from the default scattered bowling pins that are all over the lane & kinda far apart & pretty hard to make a strike with, and then turn that into a Jenga tower of precariously stacked pins which require laughably little effort to almost accidentally blow over entirely. Tanks that can set you up for the easy "strikes" at every add pull, and make every boss quicker & easier than you've ever experienced before or since are truly a pleasure to be grouped with! Most groups can't make good use of said tanks, though; since they can't do enough DPS to intimidate Delve bosses, and are generally clueless how mechanics & whatnot work, and may not even be looking at or fighting what the tank's setting up for them in the first place. So for those groups, yeah... being a "tank" (emphasis on the quotes) that can more or less solo the Dungeon makes a LOT more sense; "ethics" or whatever be damned. It's just the practical thing to do if/when your group mates are so thoroughly unreliable; trouble is you don't know who you get until after you're already in the Dungeon. You kinda gotta gauge and decide for yourself what's appropriate at the time.

It's pretty easy to slide yourself up or down the scale as needed, if you're prepared and experienced with it. You can change armor and slotted skills in about 30 seconds by hand, or near-instantly if you're on PC and use a handy addon or two for it. Even on my damage dealers that I feel comfortable tanking on, I'll keep an armor set or two that are more conducive for "real" tanking -- or at least something kind of in-between. If I find myself in a group that's really kicking ***, I'll usually shift gears a little and set them up for the "easy strikes". If I find myself grouped with potatoes that keep getting killed by pony farts & butterfly breezes and can't seem to kill mudcrabs holding butter knives... well, then I'll just go full DPS mode and try to kill things before too many problems can drag on f o r e v e r. Point is, don't feel locked into one kind of tanking (or "tanking", as the case may be); you can adjust on-the-fly when you're not in combat. "The line" you referenced is probably "can you survive?" for being a real tank or not. If you taunt and you live, you're as real as anyone should need you to be. All the other stuff on top of that is just icing and whatnot.

Do what you think is best for the group you find yourself in. We all want to get it done and get on with our lives, so if you can carry a group that needs it, do it. (Good) fake tanks are awesome for this. But if your group is full of damage potential & badassery, you might be better off serving up the dungeon on a silver platter for them to demolish (as in, let the tank be a tank and let the damage dealers deal damage), ya know?

Sorry for all the words : P

Hope that helps

Sidonius wrote: »

What about those damn DDs who fake tank/heal and clear every mf in the dungeon and your job is to just keep up..
Do we do the standard "thank you for group" or is "thanks for the carry" more appropriate lol

Love those guys

I hate those. I log into the game to actually play it, not watch some selfish DPS play it because he has to "l33t pwn" with 90k dps in a normal dungeon.

I dislike this as well if as a DPS others have to wait in que so should all dps and it's taking spots that could be taken by people who actually use these roles plus I like to keep in practice as working as a group properly for when I do the harder content. Plus most fake tanks and fake healers I've come across are usually pretty bad dps.