Why is there so much disagreement on what is "best," among the community?

Pencisl2 · February 2021

In other mmos, you usually have a unanimous consensus on what "works" and what does not. Even if the consensus is wrong, it is never questioned.

In here, you have alcast calling nightblade one of the strongest classes, hack calling them thoroughly mediocre, and lucky singularly focused on the ring of the pale order.

Even on the forums, nightblade is simultaneously the top dps in the game and the worst, as well as being both the best and worst at pvp, all depending on who is posting.

necro is somehow top dps but also a buggy, barely functional mess. warden is great at pvp but also one of the worst damage dealers in the game (right up until someone says they are some of the strongest).

templar is both the class most suited to healing, but also the worst healer in the game with nothing unique to add; except for the other classes who are also the worst class in the game for healing depending on who you ask.

ricochet skull is probably the strongest single target ability in the game according to lucky as it often cleaves, but feels terrible to use and apparently has garbage tracking according to reddit.

one bar builds are viable to the point of being able to solo vet dungeons, but skinny seems to have quota on bar swaps.

Can someone please make up their mind?

Pencisl2 · February 2021

Title should read:
what is "best," among the community

I accidentally laid my hand over the right hand side of my keyboard while I was proofreading and it just sent the post. Odd. Can't edit my initial post either.

Lumenn · February 2021

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Mostly though it boils down to play style in my opinion. I prefer "in your face" builds. I used to like magicka nightblade when sap tank was a thing, but if I got on one now and tried to solo say moongrave, even normal I'd die every time. Others would hop on nightblade and "click" they're awesome. Others would go more dps and just dodge more, or sneak more. Even in the same class different builds "click" better with some, while they "suck" to others. Do you prefer Apple, or android? Keyboard and mouse or controller? Vodka or brandy? ESO has so many combos that work for different people they will never all agree on anything(except argonians need help apparently. I've rarely seen the whole community come together like that lol

Pencisl2 · February 2021

Lumenn wrote: »

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Mostly though it boils down to play style in my opinion. I prefer "in your face" builds. I used to like magicka nightblade when sap tank was a thing, but if I got on one now and tried to solo say moongrave, even normal I'd die every time. Others would hop on nightblade and "click" they're awesome. Others would go more dps and just dodge more, or sneak more. Even in the same class different builds "click" better with some, while they "suck" to others. Do you prefer Apple, or android? Keyboard and mouse or controller? Vodka or brandy? ESO has so many combos that work for different people they will never all agree on anything(except argonians need help apparently. I've rarely seen the whole community come together like that lol

So magblades don't have the self-healing they used to? you're the first to claim they aren't the best in the game for that, even just going by things I have heard today.

How is it that they can be the fastest and best for clearing aoe grinds like skyreach, but are getting eaten on a normal?

But what REALLY is absurd is that the theorycrafters who go in depth into class set bonuses for builds, even they can't agree. I don't mean they disagree in the sense that it is down to preference, I mean the best class for doing content for one "influencer" is the worst for another.

Even bigger irony is all the community seems to agree with what builds are acceptable, as they all seem to use the same skills and set bonuses as each other, but they then disagree on the performance.

the1andonlyskwex · February 2021

There are a lot of factors, but just within the forums here I think a lot of it has to do with people either making bad faith arguments to benefit their preferred class/race/playstyle, or comparing their preferred class/race/playstyle to its past (generally overpowered) performance instead of to its current competition.

NinchiTV · February 2021

Its all matter of opinions. Fact is every class can be viable when you wear the right sets and fix your cp up. And people are biased so it skews perceptions.

Pencisl2 · February 2021

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

There are a lot of factors, but just within the forums here I think a lot of it has to do with people either making bad faith arguments to benefit their preferred class/race/playstyle, or comparing their preferred class/race/playstyle to its past (generally overpowered) performance instead of to its current competition.

Well that is fine for forums, expected even, but what of when guidemakers do it?

I always noted how alcast's builds seem so awkward to use, and now apparently he is widely known at making bad guides. Weirdly enough, tryhard-darling skinnycheeks guides are even more awkward. hack seems to be well-liked but even the comments on his videos range from "this build does not work in practice" to "I soloed a vet dungeon with this build and didn't even die once."

With me being newer to the game and wanting to prepare myself, this is just surreal.

I am a particular fan of the glut of "easy builds" that require sets that have absurdly low drop rates, or solo builds with full trial gear.

Lumenn · February 2021

Pencisl2 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lumenn wrote: »

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Mostly though it boils down to play style in my opinion. I prefer "in your face" builds. I used to like magicka nightblade when sap tank was a thing, but if I got on one now and tried to solo say moongrave, even normal I'd die every time. Others would hop on nightblade and "click" they're awesome. Others would go more dps and just dodge more, or sneak more. Even in the same class different builds "click" better with some, while they "suck" to others. Do you prefer Apple, or android? Keyboard and mouse or controller? Vodka or brandy? ESO has so many combos that work for different people they will never all agree on anything(except argonians need help apparently. I've rarely seen the whole community come together like that lol

So magblades don't have the self-healing they used to? you're the first to claim they aren't the best in the game for that, even just going by things I have heard today.

How is it that they can be the fastest and best for clearing aoe grinds like skyreach, but are getting eaten on a normal?

But what REALLY is absurd is that the theorycrafters who go in depth into class set bonuses for builds, even they can't agree. I don't mean they disagree in the sense that it is down to preference, I mean the best class for doing content for one "influencer" is the worst for another.

Even bigger irony is all the community seems to agree with what builds are acceptable, as they all seem to use the same skills and set bonuses as each other, but they then disagree on the performance.

Well, no class is as good as they were at some point in the last several years with everything getting nerfed. Nightblade still has potential, but (especially mageblade) a high learning curve on their rotation. But for ME it's not the best class. The next person that comments might think it's the ONLY class because they "get" it while they would struggle to clear FG1 on one of MY builds because they don't play the same way. Are there BIS skills just by the numbers? Yep. Do a lot of people work to hit them? Yep. Does the same build/class work for everyone? Not even close.

Pencisl2 · February 2021

Lumenn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Pencisl2 wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Mostly though it boils down to play style in my opinion. I prefer "in your face" builds. I used to like magicka nightblade when sap tank was a thing, but if I got on one now and tried to solo say moongrave, even normal I'd die every time. Others would hop on nightblade and "click" they're awesome. Others would go more dps and just dodge more, or sneak more. Even in the same class different builds "click" better with some, while they "suck" to others. Do you prefer Apple, or android? Keyboard and mouse or controller? Vodka or brandy? ESO has so many combos that work for different people they will never all agree on anything(except argonians need help apparently. I've rarely seen the whole community come together like that lol

So magblades don't have the self-healing they used to? you're the first to claim they aren't the best in the game for that, even just going by things I have heard today.

How is it that they can be the fastest and best for clearing aoe grinds like skyreach, but are getting eaten on a normal?

But what REALLY is absurd is that the theorycrafters who go in depth into class set bonuses for builds, even they can't agree. I don't mean they disagree in the sense that it is down to preference, I mean the best class for doing content for one "influencer" is the worst for another.

Even bigger irony is all the community seems to agree with what builds are acceptable, as they all seem to use the same skills and set bonuses as each other, but they then disagree on the performance.

Well, no class is as good as they were at some point in the last several years with everything getting nerfed. Nightblade still has potential, but (especially mageblade) a high learning curve on their rotation. But for ME it's not the best class. The next person that comments might think it's the ONLY class because they "get" it while they would struggle to clear FG1 on one of MY builds because they don't play the same way. Are there BIS skills just by the numbers? Yep. Do a lot of people work to hit them? Yep. Does the same build/class work for everyone? Not even close.

But I asked about the self-healing. you seem to imply that it isn't there, when nb is considered some of the best in sustain.

A conversation in guild chat today went something like this:
"why are magblades considered strong for aoe grinding"

some guildie names off some qualities they have.

"what abilities do they use to do that?"

and they name off 2 stamina based weapon skills and one alliance skill.

Fuzzybrick · February 2021

In my experience, this is normal. I've never seen one mmo that everyone agreed on everything on...

That being said, it's also the platform your playing on. On console you are at the mercy of a controller. Pc mouse keyboard and add-on and macros make life ezmode. Yeah imma little jelly.. but it's the nature of the beast.

So seeing as alcast is a pc player with add-ons and macros, rotation becomes a click of a button... While hack is on xbox, he doesn't have that luxury... That is unless he is running a modded controller, which I doubt.

Lumenn · February 2021

Pencisl2 wrote: »

show previous quotes

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

There are a lot of factors, but just within the forums here I think a lot of it has to do with people either making bad faith arguments to benefit their preferred class/race/playstyle, or comparing their preferred class/race/playstyle to its past (generally overpowered) performance instead of to its current competition.

Well that is fine for forums, expected even, but what of when guidemakers do it?

I always noted how alcast's builds seem so awkward to use, and now apparently he is widely known at making bad guides. Weirdly enough, tryhard-darling skinnycheeks guides are even more awkward. hack seems to be well-liked but even the comments on his videos range from "this build does not work in practice" to "I soloed a vet dungeon with this build and didn't even die once."

With me being newer to the game and wanting to prepare myself, this is just surreal.

I am a particular fan of the glut of "easy builds" that require sets that have absurdly low drop rates, or solo builds with full trial gear.

Alcast, even though he will make "beginner" builds has done this so often he assumes you have the basics (like block, shield, roll dodge) down to an involuntary reflex like he does. If you don't know every step of a dungeon and don't shield and block like you breathe, his builds will be harder for you because his builds are based on how he plays. Hack goes out of his way to make off meta builds that are hit or miss depending on your content. You should get ideas from these people to adjust them or theory craft for your play style, not copy exactly. And the only way to learn what works for YOU is to play and try different builds/classes. If you're new you have all of overland to muddle through, then cps before you really have to worry TOO much about your build. By then you'll have a much better idea of how to theory craft to your style. Best of luck to you(start crafting/horse training early!)

Lumenn · February 2021

Pencisl2 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lumenn wrote: »

Pencisl2 wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Mostly though it boils down to play style in my opinion. I prefer "in your face" builds. I used to like magicka nightblade when sap tank was a thing, but if I got on one now and tried to solo say moongrave, even normal I'd die every time. Others would hop on nightblade and "click" they're awesome. Others would go more dps and just dodge more, or sneak more. Even in the same class different builds "click" better with some, while they "suck" to others. Do you prefer Apple, or android? Keyboard and mouse or controller? Vodka or brandy? ESO has so many combos that work for different people they will never all agree on anything(except argonians need help apparently. I've rarely seen the whole community come together like that lol

So magblades don't have the self-healing they used to? you're the first to claim they aren't the best in the game for that, even just going by things I have heard today.

How is it that they can be the fastest and best for clearing aoe grinds like skyreach, but are getting eaten on a normal?

But what REALLY is absurd is that the theorycrafters who go in depth into class set bonuses for builds, even they can't agree. I don't mean they disagree in the sense that it is down to preference, I mean the best class for doing content for one "influencer" is the worst for another.

Even bigger irony is all the community seems to agree with what builds are acceptable, as they all seem to use the same skills and set bonuses as each other, but they then disagree on the performance.

Well, no class is as good as they were at some point in the last several years with everything getting nerfed. Nightblade still has potential, but (especially mageblade) a high learning curve on their rotation. But for ME it's not the best class. The next person that comments might think it's the ONLY class because they "get" it while they would struggle to clear FG1 on one of MY builds because they don't play the same way. Are there BIS skills just by the numbers? Yep. Do a lot of people work to hit them? Yep. Does the same build/class work for everyone? Not even close.

But I asked about the self-healing. you seem to imply that it isn't there, when nb is considered some of the best in sustain.

A conversation in guild chat today went something like this:
"why are magblades considered strong for aoe grinding"

some guildie names off some qualities they have.

"what abilities do they use to do that?"

and they name off 2 stamina based weapon skills and one alliance skill.

Self healing. Much like Templars they heal as they damage, which is awesome, and they can do it at range. Do I think it's as good as it used to be? None of the original classes are in my opinion. If a magicka nightblade is your thing then go for it. You may intuitively "get" the rotation to keep everything up. Many think necromancer is clunky but I have no issues with it. Just know mageblades have long been considered as having a higher learning curve for many.

Maybe I missed what you're actually asking? Can mageblades do well? Absolutely. Are they the best? Depends on you and what content you run. Are you soloing? Dps? Healing? Tanking? PvP? Pve? Campaigns or BG? Progress score runs? Trials? Just vet dungeons? There are no end all be all for all content.

bmnoble · February 2021

People have these things called opinions, if people did not have differing views there would be little point in having a forum to discuss stuff.

Everyone has different things they expect from the game, what a solo quester, a PVP player or an end game PVE player like varies due to the way they enjoy the game and their personal biases.

sarahthes · February 2021

Last patch (Stonethorn) Magblade was the strongest PvE class but also the hardest to play well. This class, magsorc and magcro tend to perform the best in PvE group content due to their class specific ultimates. Magsorc is also light years easier to learn to play than magblade. Magcro isn't as buggy as it used to be, but if you aren't right up the boss' butt, blastbones can take more than 2 gcds to go off which dramatically reduces damage.

In PvP, all 3 of these classes are very difficult to play effectively or competitively with. That's not to say it can't be done, but it's hard.

barney2525 · February 2021

Pencisl2 wrote: »

In other mmos, you usually have a unanimous consensus on what "works" and what does not. Even if the consensus is wrong, it is never questioned.

In here, you have alcast calling nightblade one of the strongest classes, hack calling them thoroughly mediocre, and lucky singularly focused on the ring of the pale order.

Even on the forums, nightblade is simultaneously the top dps in the game and the worst, as well as being both the best and worst at pvp, all depending on who is posting.

necro is somehow top dps but also a buggy, barely functional mess. warden is great at pvp but also one of the worst damage dealers in the game (right up until someone says they are some of the strongest).

templar is both the class most suited to healing, but also the worst healer in the game with nothing unique to add; except for the other classes who are also the worst class in the game for healing depending on who you ask.

ricochet skull is probably the strongest single target ability in the game according to lucky as it often cleaves, but feels terrible to use and apparently has garbage tracking according to reddit.

one bar builds are viable to the point of being able to solo vet dungeons, but skinny seems to have quota on bar swaps.

Can someone please make up their mind?

wait til you get to the pro-AH vs anti-AH situation

Minyassa · February 2021

I think it's a "your mileage may vary" thing. Different play styles means different strengths and different ways that builds can excel or fall short for different people. Someone like Alcast who can run around in tiny circles dodging everything without having to dodge roll, and can talk and probably chew gum at the same time he's fighting a boss, of course he's going to do everything super efficiently and his builds reflect that. Someone who is not as deft or quick can't make the most out of Alcast's builds might have another strength that someone else's build might work better for, and so they think that one is the best. I personally love one-bar builds because I am physically disabled and they are easier on my flesh vehicle but they might frustrated others by not having enough versatility or output. It really just depends on the players.

barney2525 · February 2021

I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People figure out what works for them. So that's what they use.

I do primarily ( 99% ) PvE. My main is a Magplar. I run crafted sets designed specifically for My tastes. Its a high crit focus character, I use Julianos x4, Stuhn's x4 and Assassins Guile x4. Not what you are going to see in many videos.

But it works. Reflective light morphed to hit 3 targets adds 4 seconds of major prophecy, followed by jabs, which has its own crit bonus passive and heals the character at the same time. It just works for me. I can solo dungeons and group dungeons (until they require 2 characters to stand on different pressure plates at the same time )

Because of the Balance this game has between classes and skills, and the different ways you can focus a character both offensively and defensively, there will Always be multiple possibilities to create OP characters. So, every different one you see in a video that says 'This is the best '... is True ... from a certain point of view (thank you Obi Wan Kenobi )

Massacre_Wurm · February 2021

Pencisl2 wrote: »

In other mmos, you usually have a unanimous consensus on what "works" and what does not. Even if the consensus is wrong, it is never questioned.

In here, you have alcast calling nightblade one of the strongest classes, hack calling them thoroughly mediocre, and lucky singularly focused on the ring of the pale order.

Even on the forums, nightblade is simultaneously the top dps in the game and the worst, as well as being both the best and worst at pvp, all depending on who is posting.

necro is somehow top dps but also a buggy, barely functional mess. warden is great at pvp but also one of the worst damage dealers in the game (right up until someone says they are some of the strongest).

templar is both the class most suited to healing, but also the worst healer in the game with nothing unique to add; except for the other classes who are also the worst class in the game for healing depending on who you ask.

ricochet skull is probably the strongest single target ability in the game according to lucky as it often cleaves, but feels terrible to use and apparently has garbage tracking according to reddit.

one bar builds are viable to the point of being able to solo vet dungeons, but skinny seems to have quota on bar swaps.

Can someone please make up their mind?

Many of these things can be true at the same time.

Magcro is a great mag dd and solo class but buggy mess with worst toolkit for solo OV pvp.
Stam warden is a god in pvp but a magden is not so great as solo class ( relativelty ) and dd.
Skull is good spammable for pve but not so great in pvp.
Templar has the best RAW healing power ( and very convenient because of BOL autotarget ) but utility is not that great.

And so on and so on.

But yes, you are right - usually on forum each class is a best and worst at the same time )

AyaDark · February 2021

Pencisl2 wrote: »

In other mmos, you usually have a unanimous consensus on what "works" and what does not. Even if the consensus is wrong, it is never questioned.

In here, you have alcast calling nightblade one of the strongest classes, hack calling them thoroughly mediocre, and lucky singularly focused on the ring of the pale order.

Even on the forums, nightblade is simultaneously the top dps in the game and the worst, as well as being both the best and worst at pvp, all depending on who is posting.

necro is somehow top dps but also a buggy, barely functional mess. warden is great at pvp but also one of the worst damage dealers in the game (right up until someone says they are some of the strongest).

templar is both the class most suited to healing, but also the worst healer in the game with nothing unique to add; except for the other classes who are also the worst class in the game for healing depending on who you ask.

ricochet skull is probably the strongest single target ability in the game according to lucky as it often cleaves, but feels terrible to use and apparently has garbage tracking according to reddit.

one bar builds are viable to the point of being able to solo vet dungeons, but skinny seems to have quota on bar swaps.

Can someone please make up their mind?

This game is MMO with story background.

So people who play it are players who like LOR or just players like me.

For those who like LOR - it is important, i do not care but LOR is good, because it protects from bad changes like classes rework each update and i can understand it.

For not lor players only power of there class is important, so they want all other classes be much weaker.

As example and it is not even a secret some classes are overpowere, as example Sorc, NB ... .

Some like DK are underperforming.

A lot of good thingth was removed, a lot of our skills was buged. But not to much people who play DK, so ZOS - did not care.

And we just adapted.

So NB can jump on casrle walls, SORC can streak.

But for melee class as DK, thay say it is to powerfull to have ability to jump on walls with ultimate. Or wings were to good, so just nerf.

And there are good classes and not giod classes , people with lower skills can easely win.

That is all it is about.

Those who play bad needs enemy they can easy win.

So they do not care about balance, all they need is NERF you.

zaria · February 2021

Lumenn wrote: »

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Mostly though it boils down to play style in my opinion. I prefer "in your face" builds. I used to like magicka nightblade when sap tank was a thing, but if I got on one now and tried to solo say moongrave, even normal I'd die every time. Others would hop on nightblade and "click" they're awesome. Others would go more dps and just dodge more, or sneak more. Even in the same class different builds "click" better with some, while they "suck" to others. Do you prefer Apple, or android? Keyboard and mouse or controller? Vodka or brandy? ESO has so many combos that work for different people they will never all agree on anything(except argonians need help apparently. I've rarely seen the whole community come together like that lol

Yes, some like templars because their rotation other find it boring

Just as an excample.

Mastery404 · February 2021

"Why is there so much disagreement on what is among the community?"

Let me quote someone wiser than me:

“Words bend our thinking to infinite paths of self-delusion, and the fact that we spend most of our mental lives in brain mansions built of words means that we lack the objectivity necessary to see the terrible distortion of reality which language brings.”
― Dan Simmons, Hyperion

Chaos2088 · February 2021

Any class/role is op if you know how to play it properly to max out full potential. Simples

Lumenn · February 2021

Vanya wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lumenn wrote: »

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Mostly though it boils down to play style in my opinion. I prefer "in your face" builds. I used to like magicka nightblade when sap tank was a thing, but if I got on one now and tried to solo say moongrave, even normal I'd die every time. Others would hop on nightblade and "click" they're awesome. Others would go more dps and just dodge more, or sneak more. Even in the same class different builds "click" better with some, while they "suck" to others. Do you prefer Apple, or android? Keyboard and mouse or controller? Vodka or brandy? ESO has so many combos that work for different people they will never all agree on anything(except argonians need help apparently. I've rarely seen the whole community come together like that lol

That is the issue ,Your attempt to solo a Group-Dungeon, Very illogical and yet you spoke about "whole community getting together" When community complains for instance for inability to solo something that is designed for 4 players is when everything starts falling apart. For other part it makes more sense, The Elder scrolls online offers wide variety of and diverse builds which adds more freedom and choices,but adds more complications of balance and players will find a way how to increase their overpowerness level as well.

What? What has my preference of soloing have anything to do with me saying the community never agrees on anything? If you don't like people that solo great but that is not this thread and there are other threads for you to take your opinion and a personal attack to(calling me illogical because I don't play the way you think I should? I'm surprised you didn't say stoopid butt face meanie person. Really?) We don't have to play your way so deal with it.

colossalvoids · February 2021

There is a consensus on lots of things, but also bias exists and arrogance etc. Like with comparing hack with alcast, it's totally different levels of play and different fields.

Also it's same old "my main class is weak, others are op, nerf" mentality with some people, claiming that their class is truly in need of a buff when in reality it might not be true at all or strictly situational.

It doesn't matter much thought, if you're able to play to classes full potential it doesn't matter. Same with ability to use sets and skills situationally and so on and so forth, that's the player that matters.

Danikat · February 2021

I'm more surprised to learn that there are games where the whole community agrees on builds and tactics.

About 20 years ago it sometimes seemed that way because each game would maybe have 1 decent fansite (and a few terrible ones) so that became 'the site' and that persons opinions therefore became the most widely known, but even then it didn't mean everyone in the game would agree or even know about it.

These days when it's much easier to make a decent website, or to contribute to someone else's, or to put videos on Youtube or whatever pretty much anyone can share their ideas and differences of opinion are easier to see.

Pauwer · February 2021

Lumenn wrote: »

There are a number of reasons for the discrepancies. Some people remember playing a class WHEN it WAS awesome and don't play anymore, but still give advice. Some play up/down classes to get them buffed/nerfed.

Yes, well, this is the case for me regarding the nb. I only played mag and stam nb, before it was butchered. Overnight, i could not play those chars anymore. My thousand+ hours playtime, worthless. They just destroyed my playstyle on those chars. Then i had to work my little butt off to make those chars half decent. I don't play em anymore, because i remember how good they were and it makes me sad i cant be good on them anymore. Yes i see lower ranking nbs in cyro, who i guess play them well now as the nb is atm and have fun. I just cant enjoy it anymore tbh. Therefore i now main a stam warden and would recommend it over stam nb anyday.

redlink1979 · February 2021

Pencisl2 wrote: »

Title should read: what is "best," among the community (...)

@Pencisl2 take a look at this: How to edit your thread title

JKorr · February 2021

Personal preference. Personal playstyle. PVP. PVE. Competitive. Cooperative. "Best" is relative, actually. What is "best" in my opinion for how and why I play the game would be the ultimate worst ever in the history of history for a competitive pvp player. The reverse would be true of course; not that I'd ever manage to get the gear they would use because I simply don't play that way.

DUTCH_REAPER · February 2021

ZOS is going to see this thread and nerf NBs again. /tear

Faded · February 2021

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

ZOS is going to see this thread and nerf NBs again. /tear

I'm sure magblades will still be excellent at standing on one spot and assassinating fully-debuffed test dummies, the true measure of how good a class and spec really is.

Ermiq · February 2021

I think this phenomenon is called 'balance'.
Honestly, ESO actually has a pretty good balance, imho, and all those contradictory opinions prove that.
Sure, there're some issues, but in general, when there's no one single BiS Meta opinion that everyone could agree with, than the game is actually doing fine balance-wise.