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40% DPS nerf ?
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Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Penetration from debuffs is bugged (Lover and Concentration work, Major/Minor Breach and Crusher don't).
I also heard that crit damage CPs (one basic and the second when flanking) don't work either.
These alone should fully contribute to 40% dps drop you are feeling.0 -
Maggusemm✭✭✭They introduced Hard-Mode bosses with 260 million life and now nerf the DPS. Is this a joke?13
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Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'll be interested to see what the numbers work out to be after the targets are 'fixed.'
Right now, I was seeing little difference in DPS if you were running full regen set vs full damage sets, tested on both the 3 mil and the Iron Atro.
If it really works out to be like that, the higher mitigation/regen sets will win by a landslide. Why wouldn't you want resources to be a non-issue if it has minimal effect on your final DPS.
Will give more feedback here after the patch. *Fingers crossed*
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every patch the "silver lining" crowd say wait and see, the patch hasn't dropped yet. Then it drops generally worse than expected. And they come here to shine rainbows 🌈 at the nerfs and keep on chugging along casually enjoying whatever they do.
Meanwhile if you actually want to do anything challenging, you realize these nerfs will hurt any kind of progression.10 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭jonathanb16_ESO wrote: »What i tested so far, we get around 15-20% dmg nerf.
I tested with my magcro on life and pts and adjusted for the missing pen.
@jonathanb16_ESO how much CP were you able to allocate? Its nice to see you could make up for the losses from the armor debuffs, but the biggest issue is that no one who is testing has enough CP to truly reach the maximum dps specifications. If you had the necessary 1400+ cp or whatever, calculated penetration debuffs, and still resulted in a 15-20% reduction, that could be a problem I want to know about for sure.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Every patch the "silver lining" crowd say wait and see, the patch hasn't dropped yet. Then it drops generally worse than expected. And they come here to shine rainbows 🌈 at the nerfs and keep on chugging along casually enjoying whatever they do.
Meanwhile if you actually want to do anything challenging, you realize these nerfs will hurt any kind of progression.
Sorry for having fun.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos6 -
Faded✭✭✭✭✭EVERY NERF is for pvp, proc sets, snipe... years long whining about sorcs, nbs etc.
I have never once seen an NPC Boss mob on here complaining about some skill that killed them and is therefore OP and needs to be nerfed.
But, anything that kills someone in pvp, results in a whining nerf request on these forms.
Oh ***. Magicka nightblade got rekt for PVE balance. Whoever is top DD in trials groups any given patch can expect the hammer for their class, and all the players whose endgame is PVP get it too. Nobody wants any healer but templar? Enjoy the next year of crappy PVP performance, stamplars.
Balance by sledghammer is how things are done around here, and PVE whining is at least as likely to get dev attention as PVP whining.2 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭EVERY NERF is for pvp, proc sets, snipe... years long whining about sorcs, nbs etc.
I have never once seen an NPC Boss mob on here complaining about some skill that killed them and is therefore OP and needs to be nerfed.
But, anything that kills someone in pvp, results in a whining nerf request on these forms.
it is a source of contention... yep cries of nerf from PVPers impacting PVE for years, with no major decision to balance ALL separately.
That said, the new CP nerf is also because "x" ran VMA naked with a mop handle
When we changed from the VET system to CP we said there would be POWER CREEP, and it was denied.
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Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well people cried for harder overland content for years. Something tells me they tried to tie it together lmao...4 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From my observation, damage will be largely the same.
Basically, crit damage on life is higher, because Elfborn goes beyond just 10% like the new crit damage star, unless you equip both crit damage stars.
Base (so non crit) damage will be a lot higher actually. The new CP provide a good amount of spell/weapon damage together with the base spell/weapon damage increase.
Everything I have tested compared thus far, looks rather delightful. I am in favor of the new system. I expected to become a lot weaker damage wise in pve, but it looks like I must end up being stronger or at least similar.Edited by Dracane on February 12, 2021 1:24AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos3 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭From my observation, damage will be largely the same.
Basically, crit damage on life is higher, because Elfborn goes beyond just 10% like the new crit damage star, unless you equip both crit damage stars.
Base (so non crit) damage will be a lot higher actually. The new CP provide a good amount of spell/weapon damage together with the base spell/weapon damage increase.
Everything I have tested compared thus far, looks rather delightful. I am in favor of the new system. I expected to become a lot weaker damage wise in pve, but it looks like I must end up being stronger or at least similar.
But with bonus health on top!
FWIW, I'm finding similar DPS results, though I'm not exactly doing rigorous or scientific testing. Just beating up the 3 & 6 mil skeles. I've also only been messing with my magicka setups so far.
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Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.10 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.
Wasn't that sort of the idea/goal, though? Lower the ceiling and raise the floor?
I can't refute what you say. I'm in the average dps category, I reckon -- 30ishK is where I'm hovering on standard skeletons, self-buffed only. But I'm not finding much in the way of huge losses or new difficulty in beating up a stationary target that doesn't fight back. Feels a lot like Live.
I do feel it more when I actually go to do content (vMA is sort of my go-to) on PTS, though. Splitting up my blue points for damage and defense kinda blows...1 -
Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭From a PVE perspective, when you're looking at bosses with 100+ mil health and 150K one-shots, a blanket nerf to DPS is just plain dumb.
If you get hit by a boss doing 150k damage then all the dps buffs in the world aren’t going to help. That’s a player error and nothing to do with dps.
I’ve ran the new dungeons and vVH and not seen a massive difference dps wise but maybe a small drop but it’s hard to tell and compare tomoive especially since dummies are useless.
I’m fine with that drop though since this new system can be progressed and added to to make us more powerful in future updates rather than the 2 years of no CP changes and just increasing player power by introducing more broken sets that ultimately get nerfed and constantly changing class and weapon skills to make the OP one min and useless the next i.e dot meta patch.
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selig_fay✭✭✭Firstly, I think that this nerf primarily concerns not only pvp, but also pve players with high dps. Low dps players won't feel this much. I think it is right.
Secondly, the pve is much easier to balance because you have two entities, mob stats and player stats. If you don't have enough dps to kill a mob, you can either increase the dps of the players or lower the defense of the mobs. (like hp or increase time to inrage form)
Third, the battle pet system has been announced, but I don't hear how it will work. If it becomes available in dungeons, the group will get additional dps anyway.Edited by selig_fay on February 12, 2021 7:46AM0 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since I'm on EU, I could try my own char, yesterday, on a 3 mil dummy. (of course, not the atronach, because of its "issue")
Since I parse the 3 mil without eledrain, I don't have any breach bug.
If I consider that- I'm "only" cp 880
- There's a crit chance cp star that doesn't seem to work (doesn't show any effect on my character sheet)
My damage is ... roughly the same as it was. A little bit lower sure, but with 10% more crits (as the star should give me, but don't seem too), I should be mostly even.
Levelling to cp 1200 should actually increase my damage a little (if all goes as planned)
This is the only way to test DPS, right now. Parse the 3/6 mil without breach/fracture on live and then on PTS, and compare.
Looks like the cp2 system is well balanced (and might even be a slight buff all around)Edited by preevious on February 12, 2021 8:56AM1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.
My calculations also brought me to around 16% dps nerf.
- Maximum magicka is roughly the same,
- Spell damage is significantly higher,
- Crit damage is 12% lower while crit chance being roughly the same (due to switch to Thief mundus which is mathematicaly superior to Shadow after crit changes) provided you equip both crit damage CPs (honestly, you should in like every trial except Sunspire),
- % damage modifiers are significantly lower: thaumaturge is going down to 10% from +-22%
master at arms which was previously around 20% to direct damage is replaced by new CP which increases single target damage by 10% (note that new CP affects also dots such as Engulfing Flames or Poison Injection),
Elemental Expert which was 13% overall dmg increase is gone,
Exploiter which equals to +-3,2% overall damage increase is gone.
All in all, you go from 31% overall dps increase from CPs (counting here with additive stacking of CPs, Berserk buffs and other modifiers from equip) to like 8%, depending on class and its proportions of single target damage.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 12, 2021 9:19AM7 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.
I also look at how hard my abilities hit. And when my crystal fragments hit for 48862 on live and 48248 on pts, I can conclude that at least the average damage potential remains similar.
And if you combine thaumaturge and the aoe star that applies to things like orb and wall of elements, you still come out with 20% for a lot of dots. Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge also still buff all on target dots.
You just have to make choices now when it comes to which attack type you want to buff. I favor single target abilities.
So the dps loss merely comes from you not being able to boost every type to its fullest. But the potential is there.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.
I also look at how hard my abilities hit. And when my crystal fragments hit for 48862 on live and 48248 on pts, I can conclude that at least the average damage potential remains similar.
And if you combine thaumaturge and the aoe star that applies to things like orb and wall of elements, you still come out with 20% for a lot of dots. Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge also still buff all on target dots.
You just have to make choices now when it comes to which attack type you want to buff. I favor single target abilities.
So the dps loss merely comes from you not being able to boost every type to its fullest. But the potential is there.
You must never look at single ability and make assumptions from that. Your dmg consists of more than just single target direct damage abilities such as Crystal Fragments. While Crystal Fragments tooltip might look only slightly lower, it is not the only ability in your rotation, you also do other things. And those are certainly nerfed more than Cfrags. Just look at tooltips of Monster sets and you'll see.
Just Light attacks which make 20% of your dps are nerfed severely (loss of Elemental Expert, Exploiter and Staff Expert). Even Master at Arms which gave LAs +20%, is being replaced by Deadly Aim which is only 10%.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 12, 2021 10:01AM9 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.
I also look at how hard my abilities hit. And when my crystal fragments hit for 48862 on live and 48248 on pts, I can conclude that at least the average damage potential remains similar.
And if you combine thaumaturge and the aoe star that applies to things like orb and wall of elements, you still come out with 20% for a lot of dots. Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge also still buff all on target dots.
You just have to make choices now when it comes to which attack type you want to buff. I favor single target abilities.
So the dps loss merely comes from you not being able to boost every type to its fullest. But the potential is there.
You must never look at single ability and make assumptions from that. Your dmg consists of more than just single target direct damage abilities such as Crystal Fragments. While Crystal Fragments tooltip might look only slightly lower, it is not the only ability in your rotation, you also do other things. And those are certainly nerfed more than Cfrags. Just look at tooltips of Monster sets and you'll see.
I know. I think this systems wants and might achieve, that people choose CP based on their damage composition. My damage mostly comes from single target abilities, so I will lay out my CP like this. Deadly Strikes and hopefully some spell damage.
While a Dragonknight would probably favor Thaumaturge and Deadly Strikes and Wardens rather Aoe damage.
In the end, there will probably be a standard meta setup that looks the same for everyone. It could also be, that classes will make different choices and that alone would be an upgrade to now.
I like it a alot so far. Even my pessimistic partner who normally hates everything and everyone, is kind of thrilled.Edited by Dracane on February 12, 2021 10:02AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.
I also look at how hard my abilities hit. And when my crystal fragments hit for 48862 on live and 48248 on pts, I can conclude that at least the average damage potential remains similar.
And if you combine thaumaturge and the aoe star that applies to things like orb and wall of elements, you still come out with 20% for a lot of dots. Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge also still buff all on target dots.
You just have to make choices now when it comes to which attack type you want to buff. I favor single target abilities.
So the dps loss merely comes from you not being able to boost every type to its fullest. But the potential is there.
You must never look at single ability and make assumptions from that. Your dmg consists of more than just single target direct damage abilities such as Crystal Fragments. While Crystal Fragments tooltip might look only slightly lower, it is not the only ability in your rotation, you also do other things. And those are certainly nerfed more than Cfrags. Just look at tooltips of Monster sets and you'll see.
I know. I think this systems wants and might achieve, that people choose CP based on their damage composition. My damage mostly comes from single target abilities, so I will lay out my CP like this. Deadly Strikes and hopefully some spell damage.
While a Dragonknight would probably favor Thaumaturge and Deadly Strikes and Wardens rather Aoe damage.
In the end, there will probably be a standard meta setup that looks the same for everyone. It could also be, that classes will make different choices and that alone would be an upgrade to now.
I like it a alot so far. Even my pessimistic partner who normally hates everything and everyone, is kind of thrilled.
I can't think of any class that would go with different active CP setup from: Crit damage CP, Crit damage CP while flanking, Single Target dmg, Dot damage. No class has AoEs strong enough to make more than 50% of their DPS (which is needed to be picked over Deadly Aim).
Actually, the AoE CP just became new prebuff ZoS is trying to combat against. The CP will be used only for trash packs and switched immediately on bosses via addons.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 12, 2021 10:10AM4 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Dps got nerfed about 15-20% (resistance debuffs not working taken into account). People who say that their dps is same or even increased are doing very low dps currently on live and its still low next patch.
I also look at how hard my abilities hit. And when my crystal fragments hit for 48862 on live and 48248 on pts, I can conclude that at least the average damage potential remains similar.
And if you combine thaumaturge and the aoe star that applies to things like orb and wall of elements, you still come out with 20% for a lot of dots. Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge also still buff all on target dots.
You just have to make choices now when it comes to which attack type you want to buff. I favor single target abilities.
So the dps loss merely comes from you not being able to boost every type to its fullest. But the potential is there.
You must never look at single ability and make assumptions from that. Your dmg consists of more than just single target direct damage abilities such as Crystal Fragments. While Crystal Fragments tooltip might look only slightly lower, it is not the only ability in your rotation, you also do other things. And those are certainly nerfed more than Cfrags. Just look at tooltips of Monster sets and you'll see.
I know. I think this systems wants and might achieve, that people choose CP based on their damage composition. My damage mostly comes from single target abilities, so I will lay out my CP like this. Deadly Strikes and hopefully some spell damage.
While a Dragonknight would probably favor Thaumaturge and Deadly Strikes and Wardens rather Aoe damage.
In the end, there will probably be a standard meta setup that looks the same for everyone. It could also be, that classes will make different choices and that alone would be an upgrade to now.
I like it a alot so far. Even my pessimistic partner who normally hates everything and everyone, is kind of thrilled.
I can't think of any class that would go with different active CP setup from: Crit damage CP, Crit damage CP while flanking, Single Target dmg, Dot damage. No class has AoEs strong enough to make more than 50% of their DPS (which is needed to be picked over Deadly Aim).
Actually, the AoE CP just became new prebuff ZoS is trying to combat against. The CP will be used only for trash packs and switched immediately on bosses via addons.
A shame.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭Greetings,
I am what many people would call a casual player. I play mainly for fun while still trying to do my best : I have 2*5pieces set + monster set, full stamina (as DPS) and I try to keep my DoTs and buffs up while weaving a light/heavy attack between each skill.
With the exact same gear/skills
On live, with 810 CP, I can get roughly to 20k DPS on skeleton dummy.
On PTS without CP, I can get to roughly 9k DPS on skeleton dummy
On PTS with 888CP, I can get to roughly 12k DPS on skeleton dummy
So this mean a 40% DPS nerf for me (and many other casual players I guess). This is huge[.
I really hope this DPS nerf won't go live. Not only will it be frustrating for me and my friend not being able to finish content we could finish before, but it would also be unfair because there are achievements that will be way harder to get than before like those that require you to clean a vet dungeon in less than X minutes.
I understand that you try to reduce the gap between casual and top players which is good imho. But why nerf casual's DPS to the ground in the process ?
dps needs a nerf because if u are good at it u will do atm 100k + which takes all the fun away
so its very good that they finaly nerf dmg
and btw u cant rly nerf only the good players cause everything they use does a casual to but likly not as fast etc so if u nerf good dps u nerf bad to
for u jsut try get some sets like relequen which will do 8k dps just by light atacking1 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭From a PVE perspective, when you're looking at bosses with 100+ mil health and 150K one-shots, a blanket nerf to DPS is just plain dumb.
yea but u ever asked why the new bosses have so much more live than olders ? cause the power creep is insane and hopfully will be stoped now
if u get more dps every patch u need increase the boss life
but if u do so the older trials get boring af
so i hope they nerf dmg rly hard and adjust the new trials to the balancing of the old ones2 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭It is the new version of content, make everything harder by nerfing players. So anything VET level can be more "fun" because dps is going to drop. But, at least pvp got the nerfs they wanted and RP got cool stuff to spend gold/crown on too.
Cycle of life in ZOS, spoon feed pvp/RP, punish PVE either by accident or intentionally, they don't care as long as the 1st 2 keep playing.
pvpers are preferred by ZOS?
now thats a first time hearing it3 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is the new version of content, make everything harder by nerfing players. So anything VET level can be more "fun" because dps is going to drop. But, at least pvp got the nerfs they wanted and RP got cool stuff to spend gold/crown on too.
Cycle of life in ZOS, spoon feed pvp/RP, punish PVE either by accident or intentionally, they don't care as long as the 1st 2 keep playing.
pvpers are preferred by ZOS?
now thats a first time hearing it
See nearly every nerf since beta, something made a pvp player cry, had to be nerfed.3 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Well in PVE a scripted boss can't really counter your strategy. In PVP other players certainly can and players don't have as much life. So if they balance for PVP and then adjust PVE content accordingly, they might find a middle ground.Just throwing a thought out.2 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭Welcome to ZOS, not much adjust after the fact happens around here. If you enjoy RP and house decorating then it really doesn't matter. Otherwise everything will get harder next patch, much like all the previous nerf patches, but now we get to grind CP to make up a fraction of the power lost by all the nerfs.0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
(emphasis mine)Well in PVE a scripted boss can't really counter your strategy. In PVP other players certainly can and players don't have as much life. So if they balance for PVP and then adjust PVE content accordingly, they might find a middle ground.Just throwing a thought out.
Hey, man! You didn't have to come at me like that! :'(
(just kidding, I knew what you meant. just trying to keep it light)0
