Mag Sorc in new CP system

Jsmalls · February 2021

Just curious how MagSorc feels in this update, specifically a few situations (I'm on console so I don't get a PTS).

Damage shield viability:
There was a red star to replace bastion but i read that the increase capped at 15% and the increased damage against went up to 40%. Was this accurate information, has this been changed since?
How do damage shields feel with the base spell damage increase?
Spell damage will increase abilities that heal, but damage shields are strictly calculated via max magicka. So this of itself is actually a nerf to damage shields. People do more damage, people heal for more, but damage shields don't give us any extra protection.
Burst damage:
So a MagSorc generally uses burst damage, ideally to pop their execute to finish a kill. Wondering how that burst feels in this update with increased base damage.
Light armor changes:
As a MagSorc that uses destro/sword and board and blocks a lot on and off the increased block cost has me worried. As well as the increased martial damage. Really feel like light armor recieved a nerf that really wasn't needed.

Any new ideas?
I saw a CP star that decreased roll dodge cost significantly while you have a shield up. I have mixed feels about it because by dodging the damage you're not using the damage shield for defense and since it's going to expire in 6 seconds regardless dodging is just increasing the chance that you don't actually use the damage shield and wasted the magicka to cast it then used another active defense to bypass damage. (If that rambling makes sense).

I'd really appreciate if someone could mimic my build on PTS and let me know how stats look next update, but I'll only go further if I get a volunteer!

Thanks for any info!

wastelandexplorer1 · February 2021

Jsmalls wrote: »

Just curious how MagSorc feels in this update, specifically a few situations (I'm on console so I don't get a PTS).

Damage shield viability:
There was a red star to replace bastion but i read that the increase capped at 15% and the increased damage against went up to 40%. Was this accurate information, has this been changed since?
How do damage shields feel with the base spell damage increase?
Spell damage will increase abilities that heal, but damage shields are strictly calculated via max magicka. So this of itself is actually a nerf to damage shields. People do more damage, people heal for more, but damage shields don't give us any extra protection.
Burst damage:
So a MagSorc generally uses burst damage, ideally to pop their execute to finish a kill. Wondering how that burst feels in this update with increased base damage.
Light armor changes:
As a MagSorc that uses destro/sword and board and blocks a lot on and off the increased block cost has me worried. As well as the increased martial damage. Really feel like light armor recieved a nerf that really wasn't needed.

Any new ideas?
I saw a CP star that decreased roll dodge cost significantly while you have a shield up. I have mixed feels about it because by dodging the damage you're not using the damage shield for defense and since it's going to expire in 6 seconds regardless dodging is just increasing the chance that you don't actually use the damage shield and wasted the magicka to cast it then used another active defense to bypass damage. (If that rambling makes sense).

I'd really appreciate if someone could mimic my build on PTS and let me know how stats look next update, but I'll only go further if I get a volunteer!

Thanks for any info!

if u post your build i can hop on pts tomorrow i have to do some sorc testing anyway its my main

Dracane · February 2021

I can confirm that Bastion was updated. It's now 15% shield strength and 15% shield damage done.
Shields are definately weaker now, because they do not scale as much as heals do and damage taken in proportion to shield strength gained from the increased base magicka, is very high. So yes, you will feel more fragile, especially against physical damage. I have tested it a lot against my partner and the glass is real.

Damage wise, I would say it feels similar. Damage stats are higher, but damage mitigation is too, especially in heavy armor and base health has went up. Against heavy, I feel like damage has went down. It has increased instances where I can try to burst heavy armor users by refraining from stunning. But when they get their CC damage mitigation, it becomes pretty lame. Against everything else, it feels about the same.

Trayyacakes · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

I can confirm that Bastion was updated. It's now 15% shield strength and 15% shield damage done.
Shields are definately weaker now, because they do not scale as much as heals do and damage taken in proportion to shield strength gained from the increased base magicka, is very high. So yes, you will feel more fragile, especially against physical damage. I have tested it a lot against my partner and the glass is real.

Damage wise, I would say it feels similar. Damage stats are higher, but damage mitigation is too, especially in heavy armor and base health has went up. Against heavy, I feel like damage has went down. It has increased instances where I can try to burst heavy armor users by refraining from stunning. But when they get their CC damage mitigation, it becomes pretty lame. Against everything else, it feels about the same.

As someone who pvps in heavy armor I actually think the CC immunity damage mitigation should only apply to physical damage, be toned down all together, or actually just be while you're cc'd... Making it a mistake to cc someone is a bad move...

Jsmalls · February 2021

@wastelandexplorer1
Much appreciated!
Its 5 pc crafty alfiq body, domihaus helmet heavy, medium trainee shoulders, 1x trainee ring, 1x ancient grace ring, 1x torc of Tonal, all spell damage arcane.
Front bar destro ancient grace sharpened
Back bar sword and board ancient grace
Clockwork citrus food
Mage mundus

@Dracane
Yeah that's what I feared, really didn't think about the cc immune damage mitigation, but thats definitely going to be a real concern. Crazy that they have heavy armor even more damage mitigation when it's meta already... Sigh.

Septimus_Magna · February 2021

The extra mitigation during CC immunity is a pretty strong buff for heavy builds, I dont understand where that change is coming from. In heavy armor you get more mitigation after a CC break than the new major protection which is weird. I dont understand the whole rock-paper-scissors argument either. If light should be able to beat heavy why would you nerf the damage passives of light armor? The extra magic damage taken for heavy armor will definitely not be enough to put heavy at an disadvantage against light. Builds with high mitigation benefit more from extra health so this is indirectly a nerf to light armor as well.

Maybe light armor should deal extra damage against blocking targets or have increased penetration against blocking targets, with the changes on the PTS I see the balance sliding towards heavy even more.

Jsmalls · February 2021

@Septimus_Magna

I really dislike the whole rock paper scissors mentality and I know it's the direction they are choosing to go, but I want to win because I outplayed an even fight, not win because the ball was already in my court. And to that same extent losing to someone that has an advantage over myself based on the weight of gear they are wearing (even though it already seems that way with the heavy meta).

I think they really need to look back into each light/medium/heavys passives again and reconsider their values. I'll take Mag Sorc for example since that's my main.

Firstly I'm forced into 5 light pieces for the armor skill (I understand twilight is actually a pretty solid heal but 2 bar slots and a killable heal is too risky and asking for me. Plus my two ward setup with power surge and dark deal as a heal I feel is competitive and a fun playstyle.

Then I'm forced into one medium and one heavy. The 4% stat boost far outweighs the extra penetration and recovery. The 4% gives me larger wards, more damage, a larger pool to help sustain, larger bonus from synergies for sustain, etc. The penetration just gives a bit more damage (and really not much at that).
Edit: I checked the numbers again an extra 2 pieces of light gives an extra 2% spell crit and 1860 penetration. So I would have to recieve less than 2k magicka from the 4% buff for the penetration to do more damage which I believe for my setup isn't the case (disregarding the 2% crit). And it also reminded me how irritating losing 5% crit (and 200 penetration) is going to be. Once again a nerf light and medium armor both didn't need in a heavy armor meta.

So you create this new weight system to then force my hand into the same I've been using since the release of the game on console.

If wearing 7 light meant doing exceptional damage at the cost of being squishy when caught I'd explore that option. But it doesn't it offers no extra damage for the drawbacks it still has....

Missed opportunity.

katorga · February 2021

Mitigation on CC immunity is strange, especially in light of the other CC related CP, and should come with some curse like double Break Free cost.

As for the armor skills, I think they should be heavily buffed, and require 7 pieces.

Light was nerfed too heavily in relation to the negatives.

Medium is meh.

It is going to be a feedback loop leading to everyone in heavy and everyone using malacath.

Dracane · February 2021

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Septimus_Magna

I really dislike the whole rock paper scissors mentality and I know it's the direction they are choosing to go, but I want to win because I outplayed an even fight, not win because the ball was already in my court. And to that same extent losing to someone that has an advantage over myself based on the weight of gear they are wearing (even though it already seems that way with the heavy meta).

I think they really need to look back into each light/medium/heavys passives again and reconsider their values. I'll take Mag Sorc for example since that's my main.

Firstly I'm forced into 5 light pieces for the armor skill (I understand twilight is actually a pretty solid heal but 2 bar slots and a killable heal is too risky and asking for me. Plus my two ward setup with power surge and dark deal as a heal I feel is competitive and a fun playstyle.

Then I'm forced into one medium and one heavy. The 4% stat boost far outweighs the extra penetration and recovery. The 4% gives me larger wards, more damage, a larger pool to help sustain, larger bonus from synergies for sustain, etc. The penetration just gives a bit more damage (and really not much at that).
Edit: I checked the numbers again an extra 2 pieces of light gives an extra 2% spell crit and 1860 penetration. So I would have to recieve less than 2k magicka from the 4% buff for the penetration to do more damage which I believe for my setup isn't the case (disregarding the 2% crit). And it also reminded me how irritating losing 5% crit (and 200 penetration) is going to be. Once again a nerf light and medium armor both didn't need in a heavy armor meta.

So you create this new weight system to then force my hand into the same I've been using since the release of the game on console.

If wearing 7 light meant doing exceptional damage at the cost of being squishy when caught I'd explore that option. But it doesn't it offers no extra damage for the drawbacks it still has....

Missed opportunity.

Finally someone else who points out the problem with Undaunted Mettle. Makes 7 light redundant, because the magicka you lose negates the penetration you gain.

I say it once more.

Make undauned mettle grant 6% ressources at all times instead of 2% per different armor type worn, or people will never be unbiased in their armor composition. We should pick armor pieces based on the armor and passives and downsides they give, not by an external passive that makes it quite hard to go with something other than 5 1 1.

Jsmalls · February 2021

@Dracane

Mostly true but not entirely. I think this is one of those damage shield dependence dilemmas.

On other classes that don't depend on large stat pools for defense they do get some diversity. 2% of a 30k pool is 600, mostly insignificant versus the extra protection or sustain of 5h 2l or 5h 2m, or opposite 5l 2h or 5m 2h.

Dracane · February 2021

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Dracane

Mostly true but not entirely. I think this is one of those damage shield dependence dilemmas.

On other classes that don't depend on large stat pools for defense they do get some diversity. 2% of a 30k pool is 600, mostly insignificant versus the extra protection or sustain of 5h 2l or 5h 2m, or opposite 5l 2h or 5m 2h.

Ah yes, reminds me that I hate being forced into magicka stacking; the weakest offensive stat of all.
I have long switched from mage and alfiq to lover and spinners and my damage is so much better. It's over 4k more damage with my basic combo. But my shield suffers of course.

I am waiting for shields to scale with spell damage.

Jsmalls · February 2021

@Dracane

What are your tooltips with major sorcery up? I did a setup with war maiden replacing alfiq for the front bar (I use imbue weapons as a spammable), and it hit harder but not to a significant degree over the setup I listed above, like not 4k in a combo harder sort of thing.

I mean I guess tooltips won't tell me much since it's a lot of penetration. Just curious. What are your shields looking like with that setup as well.

With this next update I'd be very willing to drop shield strength in lieu of increased roll dodging. The CP system and armor weight changes seem to be influencing it.

Galarthor · February 2021

Max magicka is lower, shields are weaker, we still have to stack the weakest offensive stat, heavy armor proc builds got buffed ... what's there not to love as a mag sorc.

And let's not forget, shields only got 50% strength in Cyrodiil, while heals got 60% (0.5 *1.2 = 0.6) thanks to the Combat Medic passive.

And that ingenious idea of having burst heals scaling off of max health has not be reverted either.
That idea is as sh*tty as having shields scale off of max health like so many people have demanded for years. Nobody wants to fight someone that has a large HP pool, takes very little damage, and then even easier heals to full than you do in your squishier build.

And that whole rock-paper-scissors is boring af .. @Jsmalls basically said it all!
There are already plenty of situations where you just walk away b/c of the class build. Why make that even worse, but making it a general thing?!

Dracane · February 2021

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Dracane

What are your tooltips with major sorcery up? I did a setup with war maiden replacing alfiq for the front bar (I use imbue weapons as a spammable), and it hit harder but not to a significant degree over the setup I listed above, like not 4k in a combo harder sort of thing.

I mean I guess tooltips won't tell me much since it's a lot of penetration. Just curious. What are your shields looking like with that setup as well.

With this next update I'd be very willing to drop shield strength in lieu of increased roll dodging. The CP system and armor weight changes seem to be influencing it.

Since I run a penetration setup, tooltips show me nothing good.
I tested it all against a player in pvp in no cp, where I play. I guess that is uninteresting for you, since most Magsorcs do not play in no cp. Which I understand; it's nearly unplayable at times.

I only use hardened ward at the moment. It's 10,6k with a penetration setup and 12,2k with a more magicka oriented one. So Alfiq and mage mundus. The damage difference between the 2 is dramatic though. My fragments alone deal a bit over 1k more on player damage with a penetration setup. Add to that overload, elemental weapons and curse, and you have a several k damage difference.

That is way too much for me to tolerate, so I just accept being fragile. I always loved magicka stacking, though recently I have come to see it as a curse that I want to see lifted.

jaws343 · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Dracane

What are your tooltips with major sorcery up? I did a setup with war maiden replacing alfiq for the front bar (I use imbue weapons as a spammable), and it hit harder but not to a significant degree over the setup I listed above, like not 4k in a combo harder sort of thing.

I mean I guess tooltips won't tell me much since it's a lot of penetration. Just curious. What are your shields looking like with that setup as well.

With this next update I'd be very willing to drop shield strength in lieu of increased roll dodging. The CP system and armor weight changes seem to be influencing it.

Since I run a penetration setup, tooltips show me nothing good.
I tested it all against a player in pvp in no cp, where I play. I guess that is uninteresting for you, since most Magsorcs do not play in no cp. Which I understand; it's nearly unplayable at times.

I only use hardened ward at the moment. It's 10,6k with a penetration setup and 12,2k with a more magicka oriented one. So Alfiq and mage mundus. The damage difference between the 2 is dramatic though. My fragments alone deal a bit over 1k more on player damage with a penetration setup. Add to that overload, elemental weapons and curse, and you have a several k damage difference.

That is way too much for me to tolerate, so I just accept being fragile. I always loved magicka stacking, though recently I have come to see it as a curse that I want to see lifted.

I actually ended up splitting the difference with pen and max mag. Running Alfiq and Spinners. With Atronach and Engine Guardian for sustain. And back bar potentates restro staff for added defense on back bar.

It may be the most well rounded build I've put together. 47k mag, 27k health, 14k stam, 2k mag recovery and 1500 health recovery with tri-recovery glyphs and food.

It doesn't have the same killing power of a build with Caluurians. Or one with max offense. But it keeps you in a fight.

Jsmalls · February 2021

@Dracane

I actually avidly enjoy noCp but it's usually pretty dead on console, that's where my group and I spent the entirety of midyear mayhem, idk how it went for PC but no CP was flawless on console, huge fights smooth as butter (another reason I prefer noCP).

I actually think my setup is in a great spot in NoCp, I pretty much have 100% into stacking magicka with clockwork citrus and tonal being my only source of sustain (which let's be serious coupled with bretons sustainability, dark deal, and overload its really all you need).

I'll have to try the penetration setup, already have all those pieces golded anyways.

I've been away for awhile and I came back to the changes to OL and I love it, that and tonal let's me go all in on damage which is something I was struggling with when I left. Feels so much better, and really gives me back that bursty feeling that felt gone when I left. Setting up a curse, imbue, OL light, frag, into streak feels very satisfying and I think it's balanced in the complexity of setting it up.

@jaws343

Have you tried Torc of Tonal and dark deal, they were pretty much made for each other? Vast majority of fights I have no problem sustaining, and the synergy it provides to kite groups with streak is unmatched. Sustain is strong when everything starts activating too something gross like 2k stamina recovery and 2500 magicka recovery with majors up.

jaws343 · February 2021

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Dracane

I actually avidly enjoy noCp but it's usually pretty dead on console, that's where my group and I spent the entirety of midyear mayhem, idk how it went for PC but no CP was flawless on console, huge fights smooth as butter (another reason I prefer noCP).

I actually think my setup is in a great spot in NoCp, I pretty much have 100% into stacking magicka with clockwork citrus and tonal being my only source of sustain (which let's be serious coupled with bretons sustainability, dark deal, and overload its really all you need).

I'll have to try the penetration setup, already have all those pieces golded anyways.

I've been away for awhile and I came back to the changes to OL and I love it, that and tonal let's me go all in on damage which is something I was struggling with when I left. Feels so much better, and really gives me back that bursty feeling that felt gone when I left. Setting up a curse, imbue, OL light, frag, into streak feels very satisfying and I think it's balanced in the complexity of setting it up.

@jaws343

Have you tried Torc of Tonal and dark deal, they were pretty much made for each other? Vast majority of fights I have no problem sustaining, and the synergy it provides to kite groups with streak is unmatched. Sustain is strong when everything starts activating too something gross like 2k stamina recovery and 2500 magicka recovery with majors up.

I've tried out torc and definitely run Dark Deal. What I like about the higher base recovery is I don't have to worry about off stat resource levels to make sure I have enough recovery. Plus, the health proc of Engine Guardian is a great window to go pure offensive on someone.

Dracane · February 2021

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Dracane

I actually avidly enjoy noCp but it's usually pretty dead on console, that's where my group and I spent the entirety of midyear mayhem, idk how it went for PC but no CP was flawless on console, huge fights smooth as butter (another reason I prefer noCP).

I actually think my setup is in a great spot in NoCp, I pretty much have 100% into stacking magicka with clockwork citrus and tonal being my only source of sustain (which let's be serious coupled with bretons sustainability, dark deal, and overload its really all you need).

I'll have to try the penetration setup, already have all those pieces golded anyways.

I've been away for awhile and I came back to the changes to OL and I love it, that and tonal let's me go all in on damage which is something I was struggling with when I left. Feels so much better, and really gives me back that bursty feeling that felt gone when I left. Setting up a curse, imbue, OL light, frag, into streak feels very satisfying and I think it's balanced in the complexity of setting it up.

@jaws343

Have you tried Torc of Tonal and dark deal, they were pretty much made for each other? Vast majority of fights I have no problem sustaining, and the synergy it provides to kite groups with streak is unmatched. Sustain is strong when everything starts activating too something gross like 2k stamina recovery and 2500 magicka recovery with majors up.

I use power overload instead of energy. Losing 10% damage on my most important attack is a no go for me and energy overload essentially has no heavy attacks with a pitiful area of only 4x6. Power Overload expands this area and I think its heavy attacks are my most important attack against better opponents. It's my execute so to say.

I also like having 37 meter light attacks.

That's far out of the range of all other attacks we have, but elemental weapons works well with it. Good for chasing someone.

Jsmalls · February 2021

@Dracane

Wow I completely forgot another morph existed to be honest, I'll have to look into that. Its been energy overload for OLD trials and vMA runs where it was part of sustain. Glad you mentioned it here haha.

Same I used the AoE to finish off those perma rollers etc literally never even occurred in my mind to check the other morph because it's been like that for years.

McGordon · February 2021

Mag Sorc will always find it's way. We have always found and we will be fine 😉

Jsmalls · February 2021

@McGordon

Agreed, but I was pretty happy with where we were as a class right now... Sigh.

Dracane · February 2021

Jsmalls wrote: »

@McGordon

Agreed, but I was pretty happy with where we were as a class right now... Sigh.

Sorcerer suffers because of proc mayhem, very high health builds and worsening shield scaling.
Against targets who do neither, I still perform alright. My main problem with Sorc is, that it feels very fragile, especially if you want to have enough damage to be competent at killing those high health targets. Which for me means forfeiting magicka and choosing penetration and using only one shield to have space for all the offense.

This of course makes you highly susceptible. But I have grown to enjoy that ganker/assassin kind of playstyle.
I am afraid, this may no longer work so well next patch, with us becoming a lot more squishy. Might become impossible to run anything other than magicka and shield stacking.

Galarthor · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

This of course makes you highly susceptible. But I have grown to enjoy that ganker/assassin kind of playstyle.
I am afraid, this may no longer work so well next patch, with us becoming a lot more squishy. Might become impossible to run anything other than magicka and shield stacking.

Agreed. ZOS might try to push us towards the proctard meta too. After all, if everybody is wearing the same, it makes balancing sets and builds so much less time and money consuming.

katorga · February 2021

Galarthor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

This of course makes you highly susceptible. But I have grown to enjoy that ganker/assassin kind of playstyle.
I am afraid, this may no longer work so well next patch, with us becoming a lot more squishy. Might become impossible to run anything other than magicka and shield stacking.

Agreed. ZOS might try to push us towards the proctard meta too. After all, if everybody is wearing the same, it makes balancing sets and builds so much less time and money consuming.

Sorc is actually a pretty good class for the proc meta. So there's that.

olsborg · February 2021

Light armor passives need a bonus that sais:

"For every piece of light armor you have equipped it increases damage shield strenght by 1%

Dracane · February 2021

You can allegedly enjoy Magsorc for a few weeks during the non proc test.
Might try myself since my middle name Eden.