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How to make ESO feel more like an Elder Scrolls game?
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
AD regions has lots of this, not so common in others, I say AD has better quests than the other factions.The biggest thing is "resolution" of a quest's goals and issues, for me. For example, if I kill the bad guys from a town, the town would no longer be on fire and filled with bad guys from that point on. It's weird to completely save an area, only to gallop past weeks later and it's still flaming and full of corpses, enemies, etc. Some MMOs do this. So since I've finished the quest for XYZ village, it looks repaired and good to me. You, who haven't yet finished the quest, see mayhem and carnage in XYZ village.
You actually have that in some areas like Velyn Harbor (Malabal Tor), where the town is under attack when you arrive, but after the quest is finished, it's a normal city with merchants and all that. Not sure why they haven't done that in every case.
It take extra work to do and after the town is liberated its pretty useless outside of stealing, Velyn Harbor is kind of an mini hub and nice however.
It had a purpose when you still had to deliver your goods for crafting writs to a specific town.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1) Make the race passives based on lore, few if any of the current races have passives reflective of the single player games.
2) Ice staves should not be a tanking weapon.4 -
russelmmendoza✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is not a suggestion. This is a prompt for discussion.
And before we start let me preface that I know this is not a single player Elder Scrolls game. I know this is not Skyrim or Oblivion. I get that in some ways it’s like comparing apples to oranges. But I would counter that a big reason many people play is because of the single player games and are looking for a similar experience in ESO - so it’s not that outlandish for people to ask for things to make the game feel more like the single player games but with multiplayer.
TL;DR - with how far ESO has come since development and their launch back in 2014, and now with the inclusion of the classic TES feature of having an NPC adventuring companion, what are other things you’d like to see to make ESO feel more like it’s an extension of the Elder Scrolls franchise?
Whether it’s gameplay features, dialogue, factions, writing, combat, environment, Ui design, Camera, models, animation, etc. You name it.
Long Version
Couple of fun facts about ESO’s history. The game was in development for about seven years before launch in 2014.
Why so long? Because after Skyrim’s Cultural Phenomenon level of success people had a certain idea of what an Elder Scrolls game is. An expectation.
This was evident when the first images of the game came out and what we saw basically looked like WoW.
Extremely exaggerated caricature art style, huge shoulders, tab target combat, etc. everything about it was not the Elder Scrolls franchise people had become familiar with in TES III-V.
As you can imagine people were not happy with what they saw which resulted in the developers having to basically remake everything. They even had to implement first person camera because they didn’t realize just how much of the player base wanted that.
They couldn’t just do it all from scratch in the creation engine, they were in the late stages of development so they made do with what they had.
The change in art direction alone is extremely noticeable between the base game and the DLCs. Going from very exaggerated to grounded and more in line with the single player games.
Point being that ESO has come a long way since those days. Besides the quality of life features they’ve added, ZOS has been working on making ESO feel like the single player games - and they’ve done a lot.
With how far ESO has come since development and their launch back in 2014, and now with the inclusion of the classic TES feature of having an NPC adventuring companion, what are other things you’d like to see to make ESO feel more like it’s an extension of the Elder Scrolls franchise?
Whether it’s gameplay features, dialogue, factions, writing, combat, environment, Ui design, Camera, models, animation, etc. You name it.
——————————————————————————————————————
EDIT: Pictures to get a better idea and to appreciate how far the game has come since development
You can find more here
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Screenshots
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/9azq17/eso_daggerfall_alpha_vs_now/
Its already a elder scrolls game, see " the elder scrolls online" titte. It literally says elder scrolls in the title.
Maybe you just dont like the online or multiplayer part.
It is already the biggest elder scrolls game ever.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭russelmmendoza wrote: »This is not a suggestion. This is a prompt for discussion.
And before we start let me preface that I know this is not a single player Elder Scrolls game. I know this is not Skyrim or Oblivion. I get that in some ways it’s like comparing apples to oranges. But I would counter that a big reason many people play is because of the single player games and are looking for a similar experience in ESO - so it’s not that outlandish for people to ask for things to make the game feel more like the single player games but with multiplayer.
TL;DR - with how far ESO has come since development and their launch back in 2014, and now with the inclusion of the classic TES feature of having an NPC adventuring companion, what are other things you’d like to see to make ESO feel more like it’s an extension of the Elder Scrolls franchise?
Whether it’s gameplay features, dialogue, factions, writing, combat, environment, Ui design, Camera, models, animation, etc. You name it.
Long Version
Couple of fun facts about ESO’s history. The game was in development for about seven years before launch in 2014.
Why so long? Because after Skyrim’s Cultural Phenomenon level of success people had a certain idea of what an Elder Scrolls game is. An expectation.
This was evident when the first images of the game came out and what we saw basically looked like WoW.
Extremely exaggerated caricature art style, huge shoulders, tab target combat, etc. everything about it was not the Elder Scrolls franchise people had become familiar with in TES III-V.
As you can imagine people were not happy with what they saw which resulted in the developers having to basically remake everything. They even had to implement first person camera because they didn’t realize just how much of the player base wanted that.
They couldn’t just do it all from scratch in the creation engine, they were in the late stages of development so they made do with what they had.
The change in art direction alone is extremely noticeable between the base game and the DLCs. Going from very exaggerated to grounded and more in line with the single player games.
Point being that ESO has come a long way since those days. Besides the quality of life features they’ve added, ZOS has been working on making ESO feel like the single player games - and they’ve done a lot.
With how far ESO has come since development and their launch back in 2014, and now with the inclusion of the classic TES feature of having an NPC adventuring companion, what are other things you’d like to see to make ESO feel more like it’s an extension of the Elder Scrolls franchise?
Whether it’s gameplay features, dialogue, factions, writing, combat, environment, Ui design, Camera, models, animation, etc. You name it.
——————————————————————————————————————
EDIT: Pictures to get a better idea and to appreciate how far the game has come since development
You can find more here
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Screenshots
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/9azq17/eso_daggerfall_alpha_vs_now/
Its already a elder scrolls game, see " the elder scrolls online" titte. It literally says elder scrolls in the title.
Maybe you just dont like the online or multiplayer part.
It is already the biggest elder scrolls game ever.
How about not making assumptions or putting words in my mouth? That’d be great
I put my ideas in the thread around page 2
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561077/how-to-make-eso-feel-more-like-an-elder-scrolls-game/p21 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing I've noticed from the very beginning is that in the TES single player games, you actually venture out into the wilderness. There's a clear sense of exploration when leaving civilization behind to go into a dungeon or an unknown part of the map.
In ESO, I never had that feeling. For one, wherever you go, there's already someone there. That just comes with multiplayer, I guess. But the maps are also so dense, that every place feels civilized through and through. Traveling across the whole continent also is done with the click of a button that there is never any tension when going somewhere far out. The deepest dungeons feel just as far away from your door as your mailbox.
I'm not entirely sure how to approach a solution to this. I think what I'd like to see is something like an actual adventure zone that disables fast travel. No wayshrines. The further you go, the more dangerous things should become - yes, the lacking difficulty in overland zones contributes to this problem. A daedric realm might be a good place for something like this.
Oh, and spellcrafting. Especially for non-combat spells like waterwalking.
I was going to make one of these points.
It took a long time for me to get used to being in a city and seeing all the chaos of lots of people dueling or just jumping around and doing stupid things. It is so distracting and non-immersive. I often wish there was an option to be able to not see other players if you are just doing solo stuff.
I can mostly tune it out now, but there are so many attention starved people that really ruin it for everyone.
One thing that would help would be the option to turn off zone text chat but leave guild text chat open. I sometimes find zone chat entertaining but it can be unbelievably offensive and crude.
I don’t have a problem with fast travel, though. Skyrim had it and if I remember correctly you could pull up your map and travel to a wayshrine or whatever from anywhere, so it was actually much better.
Edited by katanagirl1 on February 10, 2021 5:31AMKhajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Necromancer
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA1 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭katanagirl1 wrote: »One thing that would help would be the option to turn off zone text chat but leave guild text chat open. I sometimes find zone chat entertaining but it can be unbelievably offensive and crude.
If you click the upper right symbol in the chat window, you can choose which types of chat you want to display. I know you can deactivate all guild chats seperately. Maybe you can also deselect the zone chat there.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
Jeffrey530✭✭✭✭There is one other thing that can be done.
when you open a book have it auto-read to you while you go about your business with a computer generated voice.
most dont have patience to read the books but converting them to audiobooks so you can listen to them while continuing your adventure would be neat. Computer generated voices are pretty decent these days so having a narrator for these things in multiple voices is likely not a big project.
Sounds like a great idea. How do you do that tho? Sorry idk how these things work0 -
Josira✭✭✭✭Voice actors that actually put emotion into their voice, with synced animations and expressions.
Actual rewards for quests,artefacts and the like.
...better writing.
I mean tes writing in single player games was at its lowest point in Skyrim
,to the point of it being an absolute atrocity that even an amateur-to outright bad writer like myself could do better,yet it was still better then eso somehow.
Somehow. And that’s pretty damn dire of a situation.
"BlooD FReNZy TicKS aLL thE BoXes of WhaT iT mEanS tO bE a VaMpiRe"3 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jeffrey530 wrote: »There is one other thing that can be done.
when you open a book have it auto-read to you while you go about your business with a computer generated voice.
most dont have patience to read the books but converting them to audiobooks so you can listen to them while continuing your adventure would be neat. Computer generated voices are pretty decent these days so having a narrator for these things in multiple voices is likely not a big project.
Sounds like a great idea. How do you do that tho? Sorry idk how these things work
its just technology. Depending on the platform its easy to find computer generated book readers. Its not perfect but its come a long way. I use it all the time for pdf's/ebooks. I imagine its the future of games like this so its a good investment for zos.
i imagine zos has to buy the appropriate program module and integrate it into the game through the books and other text. While its not quite as good as voice actors and not meant to replace them, but rather augment it in areas where voice actors are not feasable. Theres all kinds of text reading software around these days.
only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If they include some computer-generated voice for ingame books some day, please give us the ability to disable it. If I'm interested in a text, I want to read it myself in my own pace. I don't want someone disturbing me with their blathering while I'm reading. Some people might like it, for others it would be a complete nuisance.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
cmetzger93✭✭✭✭✭Delete wayshrines from the game. They have never been in an elder scrolls game before. Allow us to fast travel to specific destinations on the map (towns, crafting stations) with a variable/nominal cost depending on how far away you are from the location you’re teleporting to. Disable fast travel while in interiors similar to Skyrim1 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭they could also refocus on the npc guilds which are a staple of elder scrolls games. The ones in the game now are pretty weak and havent been touched in years.only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard2 -
LtClungeX✭✭✭Yes there is a problem, while it is a TES game with TES lore the immersion or magic feeling just isn't there like with single player TES games.
When I first played the game, I thought yeah, I can enjoy this game while leveling and as a bonus there's muliplayer I like competitive games also it was a win win. it was my first MMO,
but having others smash the mobs and kill the boss before you just killed it for me.
The fact that there's no challenge in the overworld doesn't. It Needs to scale!! however grinding would be impossible.
The original main quest was mostly solo instances and to be fair it was quite immersive.
They should implement more of this!!
The overworld fetch quest are mundane, delves should at least be solo instances.
There is a solution but they wont ever do it because people will abuse it and use it to cheat.
They would need an offline mode but people would cheat for exp
or solo instance mode where mobs stayed dead Indefinitely or for a longer time and after completing saving a city etc, the city's get rebuilt based on your progression for that character and the bad guys are removed
I would imagine they cant do this as the sever stress would be terrible or just plain impossible.
or
They could make cities the only place where you see other players, they would be like social hubs but outside the borders they are solo instances.
again I'd imagine this would be impossible to implement, also grinding alts etc with a friend wouldn't be possible.
There are some cool places in this game that are just infested with bad guys, like the city in the north of Auridon where you have to do an oblivion gate to save it. If that became a re-inhabited place after that would help for immersion.
I love that it's voice acted but I don't like the way the text is at the side for some reason this also killed my immersion I'd prefer it to behave like subtitles.
1 -
mickeyx✭✭✭✭If this game still doesn't feel like elder scrolls to players then nothing will. For me it's closest to Skyrim right now and I am happy with it.1 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭To me the theme park style of questing and exploration is the main thing that keeps eso from having full blown TES vibes. Otherwise I think it's great and very well done.
Every now and then I do a quest where it feels much more organic and I can really get in the mood and feel I'm in my characters shoes. But mostly it's just ok here's an awkward quest chain with no opportunity for decision making just lots of stuff to click through, ok go over to the patch of mobs and farm them to finish the quest... done.
To feel fully like a TES game encounters need to feel more organic and not like some dev has set up a generic hamster wheel for you to run on.... Honestly cyrodiil and IC are often the best places to get those vibes. It's the only time your environment holds genuine mystery, danger, and unpredictability.Edited by worrallj on February 10, 2021 8:37PM2 -
LtClungeX✭✭✭I'm starting to have ideas now.
They should re texture the base game, it looks dated in comparison to dlc
They should slowly add more solo instanced quests to the base game (and dlc areas) and as they do, remove the pointless fetch quests as they're off putting,
these should offer unique named overland sets, a series of 5 quests that are linked should earn you a 5 peice set, that look unique compared to the standard overworld sets, I'm talking decent side stories here.
Delves should be solo instanced! They're too easy as it is, let alone with a maxp cp person skyshard hunting blowing everything up.
Delves should have a good story to them and expanded or just more new ones added to each area that offer a vet mode for a challenge like mini maelstroms level of difficulty or maybe a little less difficult. being scared of content does add to immersion, trolls were scary in skyrim.
Drops from Vet delves could have a 5% chance to drop golden Overworld sets to encourage a vet player to play them, it would give a reason to farm these and keep them relevant.
There should be normal and vet solo dungeons with tones of lore and decision making based on the lore, that trigger overworld npc (like dungeons do) to remark on your endevors be it good or bad.
I'm thinking like skyrim dwemer ruin sizes where you could spend an hour in there and get lost, you could choose to betray someone in them for power or help them like a true TES game.
I think the way to boost immersion, is decision making in a solo instanced environment to allow the story writers to be more creative. not just hard content to smash though to get endgame gear. if you play a bad charater add may be apprehensive to solicit your help, before succumbing to you intimidation or charm.
The good or bad decisions could effect your rewards appearance. a bit like Azura's black star, you could give it back or use it as a black soul gem.
The trick would be to give the player the same items for completion regardless but change the appearances of the item based on their decision, to keep the fairness. but encourage them to listen to the story to get the desired weapon or item skin.0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm starting to have ideas now.
They should re texture the base game, it looks dated in comparison to dlc
They should slowly add more solo instanced quests to the base game (and dlc areas) and as they do, remove the pointless fetch quests as they're off putting,
these should offer unique named overland sets, a series of 5 quests that are linked should earn you a 5 peice set, that look unique compared to the standard overworld sets, I'm talking decent side stories here.
Delves should be solo instanced! They're too easy as it is, let alone with a maxp cp person skyshard hunting blowing everything up.
Delves should have a good story to them and expanded or just more new ones added to each area that offer a vet mode for a challenge like mini maelstroms level of difficulty or maybe a little less difficult. being scared of content does add to immersion, trolls were scary in skyrim.
Drops from Vet delves could have a 5% chance to drop golden Overworld sets to encourage a vet player to play them, it would give a reason to farm these and keep them relevant.
There should be normal and vet solo dungeons with tones of lore and decision making based on the lore, that trigger overworld npc (like dungeons do) to remark on your endevors be it good or bad.
I'm thinking like skyrim dwemer ruin sizes where you could spend an hour in there and get lost, you could choose to betray someone in them for power or help them like a true TES game.
I think the way to boost immersion, is decision making in a solo instanced environment to allow the story writers to be more creative. not just hard content to smash though to get endgame gear. if you play a bad charater add may be apprehensive to solicit your help, before succumbing to you intimidation or charm.
The good or bad decisions could effect your rewards appearance. a bit like Azura's black star, you could give it back or use it as a black soul gem.
The trick would be to give the player the same items for completion regardless but change the appearances of the item based on their decision, to keep the fairness. but encourage them to listen to the story to get the desired weapon or item skin.
this is interesting to me...
I have often wondered if the servers could handle (no, they can't sadly) a selection for a "private" instance? Say if I was an ESo+ member, I could select "private" instance for most interior content at least? Overland would be nice... or even if the population was just reduced a bit.0 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭I'm starting to have ideas now.
They should re texture the base game, it looks dated in comparison to dlc
They should slowly add more solo instanced quests to the base game (and dlc areas) and as they do, remove the pointless fetch quests as they're off putting,
these should offer unique named overland sets, a series of 5 quests that are linked should earn you a 5 peice set, that look unique compared to the standard overworld sets, I'm talking decent side stories here.
Delves should be solo instanced! They're too easy as it is, let alone with a maxp cp person skyshard hunting blowing everything up.
Delves should have a good story to them and expanded or just more new ones added to each area that offer a vet mode for a challenge like mini maelstroms level of difficulty or maybe a little less difficult. being scared of content does add to immersion, trolls were scary in skyrim.
Drops from Vet delves could have a 5% chance to drop golden Overworld sets to encourage a vet player to play them, it would give a reason to farm these and keep them relevant.
There should be normal and vet solo dungeons with tones of lore and decision making based on the lore, that trigger overworld npc (like dungeons do) to remark on your endevors be it good or bad.
I'm thinking like skyrim dwemer ruin sizes where you could spend an hour in there and get lost, you could choose to betray someone in them for power or help them like a true TES game.
I think the way to boost immersion, is decision making in a solo instanced environment to allow the story writers to be more creative. not just hard content to smash though to get endgame gear. if you play a bad charater add may be apprehensive to solicit your help, before succumbing to you intimidation or charm.
The good or bad decisions could effect your rewards appearance. a bit like Azura's black star, you could give it back or use it as a black soul gem.
The trick would be to give the player the same items for completion regardless but change the appearances of the item based on their decision, to keep the fairness. but encourage them to listen to the story to get the desired weapon or item skin.
Texture whole base game: no way it's still great graphics and they got enough on their plates. Besides that has nothing to do with making it feel like a TES game. Played morrowind recently?
Instance delves: they already are a little bit, each delve will only hold a handful of players before it starts a new instance. They could lower that number a little but I don't think we'd want them to be solo. It's an mmo after all and you've already got main story quests.
Some solo instancing is fine but really should not be the norm in an mmo that defeats the point.
As far as delves dropping gold items... No I think that would be kinda nuts gold items are supposed to be hard to get. But along a similar vein of what your saying, I think there's an opportunity for what your talking about with solo arenas. Maybe slightly more content like that and give them better stories? Seems like a missed opportunity to have those solo arenas everyone loves but not have some cooler stories in them.
I am with you on quests having more interaction and being less "chase the quest marker" though. Right now the quests are basically audio books that prompt you to click on something from time to time, which let's them tell some nice stories but as a game can feel disengaging. I understand they have a continuity challenge the more freedom they give the player, but theme parks can feel pretty stale sometimes.Edited by worrallj on February 10, 2021 9:06PM3 -
LtClungeX✭✭✭In the mentioned solo dungeons thereI'm starting to have ideas now.
They should re texture the base game, it looks dated in comparison to dlc
They should slowly add more solo instanced quests to the base game (and dlc areas) and as they do, remove the pointless fetch quests as they're off putting,
these should offer unique named overland sets, a series of 5 quests that are linked should earn you a 5 peice set, that look unique compared to the standard overworld sets, I'm talking decent side stories here.
Delves should be solo instanced! They're too easy as it is, let alone with a max cp person skyshard hunting blowing everything up.
Delves should have a good story to them and expanded or just more new ones added to each area that offer a vet mode for a challenge like mini maelstroms level of difficulty or maybe a little less difficult. being scared of content does add to immersion, trolls were scary in skyrim.
Drops from Vet delves could have a 5% chance to drop golden Overworld sets to encourage a vet player to play them, it would give a reason to farm these and keep them relevant.
There should be normal and vet solo dungeons with tones of lore and decision making based on the lore, that trigger overworld npc (like dungeons do) to remark on your endevors be it good or bad.
I'm thinking like skyrim dwemer ruin sizes where you could spend an hour in there and get lost, you could choose to betray someone in them for power or help them like a true TES game.
I think the way to boost immersion, is decision making in a solo instanced environment to allow the story writers to be more creative. not just hard content to smash though to get endgame gear. if you play a bad charater add may be apprehensive to solicit your help, before succumbing to you intimidation or charm.
The good or bad decisions could effect your rewards appearance. a bit like Azura's black star, you could give it back or use it as a black soul gem.
The trick would be to give the player the same items for completion regardless but change the appearances of the item based on their decision, to keep the fairness. but encourage them to listen to the story to get the desired weapon or item skin.
In the mentioned solo Dungeons they could have deadric influences that if you side with the deadric price you get a cool weapon in their style or you could get an aderic weapon if you help the person in distress who will be a priest of stendar etc0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1) Close the chat window.
(oh, and some wonky physics. I haven't seen nearly enough rubber-band corpses wiggling across the sky for a Bethesda game.
) 3 -
Kadraeus✭✭✭✭Voice actors that actually put emotion into their voice, with synced animations and expressions.
Actual rewards for quests,artefacts and the like.
...better writing.
I mean tes writing in single player games was at its lowest point in Skyrim
,to the point of it being an absolute atrocity that even an amateur-to outright bad writer like myself could do better,yet it was still better then eso somehow.
Somehow. And that’s pretty damn dire of a situation.
I completely disagree. My first Elder Scrolls game was Skyrim, and while I love the game I prefer the writing and characters in ESO. The main thing I think ESO does better is that I actually found myself liking the characters way more so far (at least in Dragonhold, the main quest, and the Balmora side of Morrowind. I started out of order.). In Skyrim, I only really liked Serana, Partysnax, and Hadvar. In ESO so far, I found Za'ji, Kaska, Aeliah, Naryu, Veya, Abnur Tharn, the Prophet, Khamira, Sai Sahan, and Lyris way more interesting because they don't feel nearly as wooden as the characters in Skyrim. As far as writing, I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it but I haven't really done most of the DLC so far. Even then, I prefer ESO's main quest, despite its flaws, to Skyrim's. By the end, I actually felt kind of sad about the outcome, whereas Skyrim really just made me think, "That's it?"
I can't compare ESO to the older games, though, because I haven't really played them yet. One thing I wish the Elder Scrolls would really change though, is making the stories more personal and less about saving the world for the 100th time. The smaller scale quests in Skyrim and ESO were always the better ones, in my opinion, because I can more easily relate to the characters. One of my favorite moments in Skyrim was meeting Hadvar again after joining the Imperials. There's a very brief interaction with him where he basically asks how you've been and seems clearly stressed and traumatized from the war. I wish they'd do more stuff like this where characters have personal conversations with the player instead of only talking about the mission all the time.5 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Meaningful exploration. ESO is attempting to tackle a franchise known for its appeal to explore. But the Points of Interest are lame and feel like they do nothing but fuel achievement grind. Oh look, this diary says "I hope I don't get shot in the head with an arrow!" and wow, there's a skeleton with an arrow in its skull. Fascinating.
These places should have a story to tell, but give us something to sink our teeth into, not just some lame, punny crap no one is going to care about. Or give us an breathtaking vista, or some secret piece of lore or alternate view on some subject.
Connect the world! We accept that zones need to be a thing, but you're frequently making the zones feel like isolated worldspaces because they don't feel like they fit in with the framework of the sorrounding provinces. Places where worldspaces connect offer such a rich opportunity for exploration, dynamic storytelling, and tying your world together that its bewildering how frequently they're just retconned or ignored. Especially in light of the fact that travelling Tarmriel is one of your biggest promises and greatest player-demanded mandates. Sometimes its there - Northern Elsweyr made a big deal about putting a gate to Valenwood in the southwest. That was amazing. Its a point of interest, and it felt rewarding to go and explore that, it made the world make sense. But then they completely ignored the existence of the Eastern Elsweyr gate just above Rimmen. Its not there, and Cyrodiil's gate connects to nothing. There's no story element, no explanation, no exploration of the idea of an Aldmeri base just looming to the north. Look at The Reach - you had all this stuff about Reachmen in Bangkorai and Orsinium, right on top of its western border, yet The Reach feels completely disjunct from them. There is no connection to either zone, in terms of story, points of interest, connection or apparent geography. Same again with Craglorn. Dragonstar is meant to be this nexus run by a big trading syndicate on the crossroads connecting it to High Rock and Skyrim, but its almost completely isolated. There's a road running west that might connect to Ephesus in Bangkorai, but it just ends nowhere. So these merchants would have to travel leagues out of their way south through desert wasteland, then double back just to get anywhere in High Rock, and the nord miners who settled the town must have taken the lame cart from Bangkorai because there's no other way in.
Broader space, with room to let the world breathe. In the single player titles, the world - and the architecture tell you much of the story. Even if you don't read anything at all, paying attention to the landscapes in morrowind, you can get the sense that there are different architectural styles in different regions. Now go to North East Bangkorai for example, and the whole place is a chaotic jumble of different architectures - Lakewatch Tower sprawls into Viridian Watch, which sprawls into Arlimahera's Sanctum, which sprawls into the Bangkorai Garison, whilst Evermore in Mournoth is squashed up against St Pelin's Graveyard in the next subzone, and Troll's toothpick, Fang Lair and Jackdaw Cove are all mished in - what little space between them is jam-packed with rapidly-spawning hoards of mobs. So even if there was anything to explore or read of the landscape, your efforts are frustrated.
To further that point, I think more diversity in architecture is needed. This again tells story. In Skyrim, each city has a story to tell in its architecture - Windhelm with its cold, foreboding, merethic-era stone buildings constrasts with the warm, ostentatiously-displayed animal interlace adorning the bright wooden buildings of Whiterun. And again, with Solitude, a distinctly nordic take on a cosmopolitan, high-society, connected city composed of high-culture, townhouses, colleges and palace. These all give character to the world, and have a story to tell, and to be explored.
Contrast this with High Rock, where its the same architecture from east to west. A read of the lore gives many hooks - with nede populations enslaved by an elven caste, nord colonists founding Daggerfall and Camlorn in one era and fully realised breton merchant elites founding Wayrest in the next, with provincial, distant Evermore in The Western Reach amongst the ruins of Direnni watchtowers. All of these cues were completely ignored for a boring similarity. There's no story to tell, nothing to explore, its copy-pasted, all the same. Arguably, they've gotten better with later content - Vvardenfell did some really cool stuff and that can't be overstated - its really amazing. But then look at Summerset; again, every city is exactly the same in architectural style, across all time, and all space. Its a big order, but then, when you're taking on an IP that celebrates this kind of exploration storytelling, you've taken on that mandate.
Quality control in the Crownstore! - I'm not against the model, tbh - the single player titles do microtransactions where they can, and if they can find ways to make making new content viable, I will be happy. Content that's making no more money is no longer being supported, that's just the way it is. But honestly, the quality of the stuff (in terms of IP identity) is really, really low. Endless reskins that make no sense in the Elder Scrolls universe, wedding dresses and jester suits to appeal to the MMO memebrain, costumes and pets that have random lorenames lazily slapped on them - honestly, it feels like the people making this stuff are just basic whatever MMO guys making random MMO crap without any feel for the soul of the game, and throwing it at the loreguy whose job description is pretty much "doesn't matter, make it work". It feels like being in a position where you pretty much just have to say yes to any sort of hairbrained MMO *** does not select for a loreguy who cares too much. It should be the other way round. Start with the lore. There's sooooo much rich depth and history to the series that they could mine, or take inspiration from to make stuff that would enrichen the TES experience. Not start with random crap that doesn't have anything to do with anything and mine the lore for a random name and awkwardly force it to make it work.
The class system! I mean how arrogant do you have to be to take a franchise that people have loved for years, look at its class-building system, as entrenched in the franshise's lore as it is, throw it all in the trash and say: "nah, people dont want to play traditional warriors and knights, our system is better!" I think they were on the right track with the concept of the weapons, but the hard-baked class system has to be completely ignored if you want to play in a more traditional way, and the weapon system is nowhere near robsut enough to fulfill any archetype and remain viable. As the game developed, and the meta-people started dominating all discourse on how this elder scrolls game must be engaged, browbeating players in dungeons, teabagging them in pvp and spamming all forums with their extraordinary anger at anyone not committing to maximising team dps (regardless of role) ZOS ran with those directions and started developing more for making the fringe metabuild viability. They were able to come up with great gameplay concepts in answer to the demand for stamina sorcerers, stamina dragonknigts, firemages, ice/magicka tanking - but completely brainfarted when it came to making these concepts mesh with the mythology. When they bother to give explanations, they are utterly contrived at best, and make no sense at worst. Stamina sorcerers and stamdks presumably power their hurricanes or acid breath with the power of their stamina (which has been essentially relegated to green magicka), while wardens run around shooting pterodactyls at their enemies and mushrooms at their allies while a blue jellyfish bobbles merrily behind pissing blue whatever at the back of their heads. In short, they backed themselves into a terribly restrictive creative corner with the class system no one ever asked for and has no business in an elder scrolls game.
Personally, I think they were a bit schizophrenic with it, and it might have been better to commit to what they seem to have been flirting with - classlessness, and roles and abilities fulfilled with weapons and guilds. Even having a class system that committed to the archetypes that the TES single-player games provided would have been a hell of a lot better. Conceptually, the weapon/class/guild framework from the franchise they wanted to take on should have been robust enough to handle a holy-trinity-role based MMO, easily handling concepts like magicka tank/controller (illusion, warding, enchantment), traditional mage concepts such as firemage, icemage, sneaky nightblades, and martial/mundane/melee styles.
Gear system - again, as the needs of the game has developed, the gear system has been changed, largely for the demands of horizontal character advancement, but also with the costume system, for player freedom and creativity. But now we have a system where the gear sets themselves don't actually mean anything. The fact that they're just tacking random names on stuff is highlighted by the observation that Syrabane was the Eponymous Warlock of the Warlock's ring, amulet, etc, so the same item, which was always treated as really special in the TES games, is applied to two sets with completely different attributes, hashed out for every slot just like every other set in game, and is completely irrelevant anyway because its all hidden by a wedding dress or sexy "dunmer" one-piece. How does that make sense? You can earn this awesome telvanni spell hood, but you're actually wearing a chef's hat like every other fat naked orc.
There are other things I agree with people have written too, more non-combat stuff would be great. There's lots of opportunity for it, and i don't think it necessarily even needs to have huge system support - treasure maps that actually gave loot anyone actually ever gave a *** about would be prety cool. They're supposed to be freaking exciting, and you have to work for them, but the reward is so mediocre and underwhelming that no one does them unless they have a chance to contain some meta gear. With little work, treasure chest hunting could actually be fun. More skills or abilities that benefit exploration or other non-combat stuff would be great. Being able to avoid enemies - spells to deaggro the tedious spawns that make exploration or hunting an annoying grind. A mark and recall spell to make getting around a bit more convenient. Spell scrolls would be cool - working more or less like potions, but with spells you might not otherwise have access to. If craftable, could add to the economy, too.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on February 11, 2021 4:35AM2 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Character Choice Matters
There could be more instances where my alliance, race, class, and skills affect dialogue and choices.
....
Example #2: Implement more instances in future zones where my alliance choice matters outside of PvP.
Honestly, even if it was just more different dialogue based on our choice of alliance I'd be happy.
For instance, throughout the Greymoor questline, the vestige will be referred to as an "emissary of Jorunn", which is fine... if you're EP.
But on my DC main, it kept breaking my ability to immerse myself in the quest.
Why? Because it didn't acknowledge the choices that I had made for my character. It wouldn't even been too much for ZOS to have just changed any instance of supposed allegiance to Jorunn on non-EP characters to simply being "friend of Lyris" or something similar. Something that respected the fact that my character was a member of the Covenant and allied to High King Emeric. Even a bit of dialogue at the end with Svana encouraging opening up conversations with the Covenant for at least trade purposes would have been nice. Again, something that referenced the choices made when creating my character.
Just those small things that recognizes player choice would go a long way in enhancing the "Elder Scrolls"-iness of ESO.
Strongly agree. I feel like they gave up on bothering with any sense of continuity about the same time they decided you could do Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but weren't willing or capable of putting the effort in to making that make any sense at all beyond some half-arsed handwave that's quickly shoved under the rug and never been touched on since. The MMO crowd had demands and expectations, and it was imperative to make it happen mechanically, even if they lacked the imagination or the understanding of the franchise to make it feel convincing. This has been their MO ever since: abstract mechanics first, loreguy, make this *** lore-y somehow. They've been hopeless at meshing mechanics with lore and continuity. Its easy to see why people think lore and continuity aren't super important to ZOS.
Remember that even the EP emissary loyal to Jorunn probably stole power from him and took the ruby throne if they've spent much time in Cyrodiil. He's OK with that though I guess. Though if he's now best friends with Western Skyrim and even the hated Reachmen, why would he be bothered by a little usurpation?Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on February 11, 2021 6:25AM2 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »Character Choice Matters
There could be more instances where my alliance, race, class, and skills affect dialogue and choices.
....
Example #2: Implement more instances in future zones where my alliance choice matters outside of PvP.
Honestly, even if it was just more different dialogue based on our choice of alliance I'd be happy.
For instance, throughout the Greymoor questline, the vestige will be referred to as an "emissary of Jorunn", which is fine... if you're EP.
But on my DC main, it kept breaking my ability to immerse myself in the quest.
Why? Because it didn't acknowledge the choices that I had made for my character. It wouldn't even been too much for ZOS to have just changed any instance of supposed allegiance to Jorunn on non-EP characters to simply being "friend of Lyris" or something similar. Something that respected the fact that my character was a member of the Covenant and allied to High King Emeric. Even a bit of dialogue at the end with Svana encouraging opening up conversations with the Covenant for at least trade purposes would have been nice. Again, something that referenced the choices made when creating my character.
Just those small things that recognizes player choice would go a long way in enhancing the "Elder Scrolls"-iness of ESO.
Strongly agree. I feel like they gave up on bothering with any sense of continuity about the same time they decided you could do Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but weren't willing or capable of putting the effort in to making that make any sense at all beyond some half-arsed handwave that's quickly shoved under the rug and never been touched on since. The MMO crowd had demands and expectations, and it was imperative to make it happen mechanically, even if they lacked the imagination or the understanding of the franchise to make it feel convincing. This has been their MO ever since: abstract mechanics first, loreguy, make this *** lore-y somehow. They've been hopeless at meshing mechanics with lore and continuity. Its easy to see why people think lore and continuity aren't super important to ZOS.
Remember that even the EP emissary loyal to Jorunn probably stole power from him and took the ruby throne if they've spent much time in Cyrodiil. He's OK with that though I guess. Though if he's now best friends with Western Skyrim and even the hated Reachmen, why would he be bothered by a little usurpation?
There’s also the confusion caused by lack of a clear defined storyline. It’s noticeable that after Orsinium, references to the Alliance War and the Alliances themselves sharply drop off. The Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr, and even Greymoor chapters have very little to do or hardly even mention the Alliances or other members. In Greymoor, it’s noticeable that one acts as an agent of Jorunn, not of the Pact.
It could very well be (and my personal headcanon), that in the years following the end of the planemeld, the Alliances just sort of retreated. Some might remain as political entities, but with fewer members. Others might have dissolved completely. High Rock and Hammerfell might be united in marriage still, but Orsinium might be out. The First Aldmeri Dominion might be seeing retracting borders, as they don’t seem to have much influence in Rimmen. And the Pact may have disbanded all together, with the reclusive races all withdrawing back to themselves. All the fighting in Cyrodiil could be a perpetual Battle of New Orleans in the War of 1812: a battle for flags that are no longer fighting and for causes and reasons that are no more.
But ZOS doesn’t update the timeline in favor of letting players start where they want. Honestly. They should just announce the war has been over for some time and revamp Cyrodiil with new factions competing for the Ruby Throne. Sure it means new players would miss out on the old alliance war, but that war has been ignored for years. Perhaps it is time it was formally retired.1 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »Character Choice Matters
There could be more instances where my alliance, race, class, and skills affect dialogue and choices.
....
Example #2: Implement more instances in future zones where my alliance choice matters outside of PvP.
Honestly, even if it was just more different dialogue based on our choice of alliance I'd be happy.
For instance, throughout the Greymoor questline, the vestige will be referred to as an "emissary of Jorunn", which is fine... if you're EP.
But on my DC main, it kept breaking my ability to immerse myself in the quest.
Why? Because it didn't acknowledge the choices that I had made for my character. It wouldn't even been too much for ZOS to have just changed any instance of supposed allegiance to Jorunn on non-EP characters to simply being "friend of Lyris" or something similar. Something that respected the fact that my character was a member of the Covenant and allied to High King Emeric. Even a bit of dialogue at the end with Svana encouraging opening up conversations with the Covenant for at least trade purposes would have been nice. Again, something that referenced the choices made when creating my character.
Just those small things that recognizes player choice would go a long way in enhancing the "Elder Scrolls"-iness of ESO.
Strongly agree. I feel like they gave up on bothering with any sense of continuity about the same time they decided you could do Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but weren't willing or capable of putting the effort in to making that make any sense at all beyond some half-arsed handwave that's quickly shoved under the rug and never been touched on since. The MMO crowd had demands and expectations, and it was imperative to make it happen mechanically, even if they lacked the imagination or the understanding of the franchise to make it feel convincing. This has been their MO ever since: abstract mechanics first, loreguy, make this *** lore-y somehow. They've been hopeless at meshing mechanics with lore and continuity. Its easy to see why people think lore and continuity aren't super important to ZOS.
Remember that even the EP emissary loyal to Jorunn probably stole power from him and took the ruby throne if they've spent much time in Cyrodiil. He's OK with that though I guess. Though if he's now best friends with Western Skyrim and even the hated Reachmen, why would he be bothered by a little usurpation?
There’s also the confusion caused by lack of a clear defined storyline. It’s noticeable that after Orsinium, references to the Alliance War and the Alliances themselves sharply drop off. The Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr, and even Greymoor chapters have very little to do or hardly even mention the Alliances or other members. In Greymoor, it’s noticeable that one acts as an agent of Jorunn, not of the Pact.
It could very well be (and my personal headcanon), that in the years following the end of the planemeld, the Alliances just sort of retreated. Some might remain as political entities, but with fewer members. Others might have dissolved completely. High Rock and Hammerfell might be united in marriage still, but Orsinium might be out. The First Aldmeri Dominion might be seeing retracting borders, as they don’t seem to have much influence in Rimmen. And the Pact may have disbanded all together, with the reclusive races all withdrawing back to themselves. All the fighting in Cyrodiil could be a perpetual Battle of New Orleans in the War of 1812: a battle for flags that are no longer fighting and for causes and reasons that are no more.
But ZOS doesn’t update the timeline in favor of letting players start where they want. Honestly. They should just announce the war has been over for some time and revamp Cyrodiil with new factions competing for the Ruby Throne. Sure it means new players would miss out on the old alliance war, but that war has been ignored for years. Perhaps it is time it was formally retired.
Again, strongly agree, and those interpretations make a lot of sense. It could be that something like that is the writing assumption, but ZOS itself wont do anything to outwardly confirm that because they don't want to overtly commit to acknowledging the passing of time. I get why they committed to eternal 582, but its a very unsatisfying solution and its only going to become increasingly untenable as they continue to develop content. Its almost like they have a pattern of poor continuity decisions that force them into awkward, forced decisions they just refuse to make or handwave away...
I would love it if they advanced the story of Cyrodiil in a direction reflecting what the lore says of the Interregnum - a period characterised by rapidly shifting alliances. People complain a lot that PvP gets no love, and something like that could contribute to breathing life into it. Probably wishful thinking.
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mickeyx✭✭✭✭Have you guys even played Oblivion or skyrim? I am actually lol at most of the suggestions here wanting to make ESO more hardcore. There is a reason why Skyrim is the highest selling TES title.1
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Scardan✭✭✭✭✭You can not. I play casually Skyrim (legendary difficulty, which is bad in design, but at least I can fear dragons there) and the feeling is completely different. The core mechanics of gameplay are too different.Edited by Scardan on February 11, 2021 10:15AMLet's be extremely precise in our use of terms.0
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LtClungeX✭✭✭I'm starting to have ideas now.
They should re texture the base game, it looks dated in comparison to dlc
They should slowly add more solo instanced quests to the base game (and dlc areas) and as they do, remove the pointless fetch quests as they're off putting,
these should offer unique named overland sets, a series of 5 quests that are linked should earn you a 5 peice set, that look unique compared to the standard overworld sets, I'm talking decent side stories here.
Delves should be solo instanced! They're too easy as it is, let alone with a maxp cp person skyshard hunting blowing everything up.
Delves should have a good story to them and expanded or just more new ones added to each area that offer a vet mode for a challenge like mini maelstroms level of difficulty or maybe a little less difficult. being scared of content does add to immersion, trolls were scary in skyrim.
Drops from Vet delves could have a 5% chance to drop golden Overworld sets to encourage a vet player to play them, it would give a reason to farm these and keep them relevant.
There should be normal and vet solo dungeons with tones of lore and decision making based on the lore, that trigger overworld npc (like dungeons do) to remark on your endevors be it good or bad.
I'm thinking like skyrim dwemer ruin sizes where you could spend an hour in there and get lost, you could choose to betray someone in them for power or help them like a true TES game.
I think the way to boost immersion, is decision making in a solo instanced environment to allow the story writers to be more creative. not just hard content to smash though to get endgame gear. if you play a bad charater add may be apprehensive to solicit your help, before succumbing to you intimidation or charm.
The good or bad decisions could effect your rewards appearance. a bit like Azura's black star, you could give it back or use it as a black soul gem.
The trick would be to give the player the same items for completion regardless but change the appearances of the item based on their decision, to keep the fairness. but encourage them to listen to the story to get the desired weapon or item skin.
Texture whole base game: no way it's still great graphics and they got enough on their plates. Besides that has nothing to do with making it feel like a TES game. Played morrowind recently?
Instance delves: they already are a little bit, each delve will only hold a handful of players before it starts a new instance. They could lower that number a little but I don't think we'd want them to be solo. It's an mmo after all and you've already got main story quests.
Some solo instancing is fine but really should not be the norm in an mmo that defeats the point.
As far as delves dropping gold items... No I think that would be kinda nuts gold items are supposed to be hard to get. But along a similar vein of what your saying, I think there's an opportunity for what your talking about with solo arenas. Maybe slightly more content like that and give them better stories? Seems like a missed opportunity to have those solo arenas everyone loves but not have some cooler stories in them.
I am with you on quests having more interaction and being less "chase the quest marker" though. Right now the quests are basically audio books that prompt you to click on something from time to time, which let's them tell some nice stories but as a game can feel disengaging. I understand they have a continuity challenge the more freedom they give the player, but theme parks can feel pretty stale sometimes.
Yes the DLC areas from Orsinum upward look way better than the base game, the base game has a certain flatness to it in comparison. I understand re texturing would take alot of time.
I think for a TES player first and foremost, vet players blasting the adds in delves and even the main quests, where its not a solo instance kills immersion.
Delves are easy so having them solo wouldn't take away from the MMO factor but it does take away from immersion.
I know its an MMO but it doesn't have to be like other MMOs,
If in future expansions, they had more solo instanced stuff where you could take your time and immerse yourself and get actually lost and explore the story without other players there and make meaningful decisions that impacted outcomes, (there is some of this) it would make the game so much better!!
We have undaunted, pvp, trials and the overworld, for the MMO aspect.
You could make delves where you can do them with a grouped friend.
But honestly they don't need it to be where 5 players are there having to wait to kill the boss its totally immersion killing and easy!
Instead of reworking delves they could add new Solo dungeons to each zone that have long story's and decisions to make for solo players. Normal and Vet ones. The problem with current dungeons is you cant listen to the story, as people just smash it as soon as they're there I think banished cells 1 is the Only Dungeon where I know what actually happened as we were all noobs then and we listened to the dialog.
In regard to gold drops in delves I'm talking hard Delves, like mini solo maelstrom difficulty delves with boss mechanics.
I liked the lady luraunt missions and the dark elf duo that delved in to dangerous places to make a name for them selves,
I loved tellenger the artificer taking on mephala, a funny crazy wizard!! I want more of him!!
but doing that without the nuisance of other players just tearing though it, would add to the immersion of the story.
Having an overworld that separated in some area where its a solo questing area, could be nice idea in the future where there is just 1 wayshrine and loads of land mass.Edited by LtClungeX on February 11, 2021 12:02PM1 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've only read the headline as the rest means nothing to me.
Yes, nothing.
I have never played any of the other elder scrolls games, never, not once.
I have no interest in doing so.
As I scrolled down I saw something about first person and playing the game like that. I CANNOT play first person games. It's not a will not or I could give them a go its a CANNOT. Why? Motion sickness, yup first person games make me want to puke, and I mean that literally not figuratively.
As for the rest. This is a different game to the other Elder Scrolls games, why does it have to feel the same?0