Removing non-combat perks from players is a disaster that will cause a lot of rage quitting

ApoAlaia · February 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

Its not a little grind though is it?
Do the math an average person is literally looking at an essentially endless level grind.
I mean I used to play wow years ago each expansion upped the level and gear cap while providing new zones and dungeons and raids set for the new level cap.
Now the more casual people I played with would hit the level cap in a month or 2 while those who grinded could hit it in a week or less.
Then they could start on gear etc whatever they desired.
This isn't a typical grind however...
If you gave your entire life to eso you might be able to get max in 6 months.
Now if people are needing around 1700 to do what they want you may just be looking at 6 years of casual play to get there...
That is more than any grind I have ever encountered anywhere in any game, period.

it is a little grind -- considering they are modifying XP gains, they may even shift the XP table on launch so people gain levels initially.

You don't need 3600 CP's to be effective, people keep focusing on that. It's 1200-1400 depending on how you want to build out your toon...

So 1500 CP (my projected CP for when the patch hits) would allow me to have the QoL perks I currently have (Master Gatherer, Treasure Hunter) along with all the combat related ones maxed out active at the same time?

MrZeDark · February 2021

ApoAlaia wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

Its not a little grind though is it?
Do the math an average person is literally looking at an essentially endless level grind.
I mean I used to play wow years ago each expansion upped the level and gear cap while providing new zones and dungeons and raids set for the new level cap.
Now the more casual people I played with would hit the level cap in a month or 2 while those who grinded could hit it in a week or less.
Then they could start on gear etc whatever they desired.
This isn't a typical grind however...
If you gave your entire life to eso you might be able to get max in 6 months.
Now if people are needing around 1700 to do what they want you may just be looking at 6 years of casual play to get there...
That is more than any grind I have ever encountered anywhere in any game, period.

it is a little grind -- considering they are modifying XP gains, they may even shift the XP table on launch so people gain levels initially.

You don't need 3600 CP's to be effective, people keep focusing on that. It's 1200-1400 depending on how you want to build out your toon...

So 1500 CP (my projected CP for when the patch hits) would allow me to have the QoL perks I currently have (Master Gatherer, Treasure Hunter) along with all the combat related ones maxed out active at the same time?

Yes.

1500 cp is 500 per tree.

MrZeDark · February 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

Its not a little grind though is it?
Do the math an average person is literally looking at an essentially endless level grind.
I mean I used to play wow years ago each expansion upped the level and gear cap while providing new zones and dungeons and raids set for the new level cap.
Now the more casual people I played with would hit the level cap in a month or 2 while those who grinded could hit it in a week or less.
Then they could start on gear etc whatever they desired.
This isn't a typical grind however...
If you gave your entire life to eso you might be able to get max in 6 months.
Now if people are needing around 1700 to do what they want you may just be looking at 6 years of casual play to get there...
That is more than any grind I have ever encountered anywhere in any game, period.

it is a little grind -- considering they are modifying XP gains, they may even shift the XP table on launch so people gain levels initially.

You don't need 3600 CP's to be effective, people keep focusing on that. It's 1200-1400 depending on how you want to build out your toon...

So 1500 CP (my projected CP for when the patch hits) would allow me to have the QoL perks I currently have (Master Gatherer, Treasure Hunter) along with all the combat related ones maxed out active at the same time?

Yes.

1500 cp is 500 per tree.

at my 1167 on PTS -- I completed my Combat Perks, and al my green Farming perks.

ApoAlaia · February 2021

MrZeDark wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

Its not a little grind though is it?
Do the math an average person is literally looking at an essentially endless level grind.
I mean I used to play wow years ago each expansion upped the level and gear cap while providing new zones and dungeons and raids set for the new level cap.
Now the more casual people I played with would hit the level cap in a month or 2 while those who grinded could hit it in a week or less.
Then they could start on gear etc whatever they desired.
This isn't a typical grind however...
If you gave your entire life to eso you might be able to get max in 6 months.
Now if people are needing around 1700 to do what they want you may just be looking at 6 years of casual play to get there...
That is more than any grind I have ever encountered anywhere in any game, period.

it is a little grind -- considering they are modifying XP gains, they may even shift the XP table on launch so people gain levels initially.

You don't need 3600 CP's to be effective, people keep focusing on that. It's 1200-1400 depending on how you want to build out your toon...

So 1500 CP (my projected CP for when the patch hits) would allow me to have the QoL perks I currently have (Master Gatherer, Treasure Hunter) along with all the combat related ones maxed out active at the same time?

Yes.

1500 cp is 500 per tree.

Must have misunderstood something along the way then, foibles of not actually playing the PTS, I was under the impression that you needed 900CP on the tree where the 'QoL' perks are (so 2700 CP in total) to unlock them and then it was an either/or thing as in 'you have to choose between slotting QoL or combat, cannot have both'.

Either way thank you for clarifying. I spend a lot of time farming, often in between other activities, so I'm quite fond of my QoL perks.

Rittings · February 2021

My wife is a housing fanatic... oddly, she has the exact opposite reaction to the one suggested. She's super pumped about having a cp portion of the tree that she can assign to more RPG based content instead of it being 100% combat related.

You might need to re-look at what ZoS are doing with CP rather than complaining blindly about it. I'm one of the biggest critics of ZoS normally - but even I see the massive value in this change to ALL players!!

MrZeDark · February 2021

Rittings wrote: »

My wife is a housing fanatic... oddly, she has the exact opposite reaction to the one suggested. She's super pumped about having a cp portion of the tree that she can assign to more RPG based content instead of it being 100% combat related.

You might need to re-look at what ZoS are doing with CP rather than complaining blindly about it. I'm one of the biggest critics of ZoS normally - but even I see the massive value in this change to ALL players!!

tmbrinks · February 2021

mobicera wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

I know a lot of these players to describe -

Most of them explore open world to farm resources, to build, to loot chests for chances at new furnishing plans, or to farm gold to buy crowns.

All of those above mentioned changes include getting experience, even if experience wasn't the point. These CP's do not restrict players from continuing to put points into Passives/Actives that continue their explorative and house building desires.

It is easy to get enough CP's to get 2x resources, to get treasure chest improvements, and merchant gold increases -- the rest of the way is adding some new passives and actives, that never even existed and may excite some players to casual get in time.

If these players, that supposedly don't 'play' content for XP - only did Housing, how did they get to CP level to begin with? If they got so far, to utilize certain CP's for their desires - it won't hurt them to continue progressing, though there won't be some need to 'grind'. As you keep forgetting there is an XP curve changing, to accelerate leveling - and still discussion to level shift.

If people want to grind, they can grind.
If people don't want to grind, and continue casually - they can.

In no way does this change how the game has and or will be played, by the individual - it's still the same. Grind if you want to, but don't do it if you don't want to.

But what if a person just wants to just pvp?
How will that 900cp person really fare against a 1700cp person?

Now what if 2 people apply to join a trials team.
Both are hitting the required dps.
Neither are known so the "friend" get me in doesn't apply.
1 has 810 cp
1 has 1600 co

Which person has the passives to be more beneficial to them in the trial, to survival?
Which would be the person really taken here?
this Cp change is absolutely huge and impacts quite a bit.
No one should be expected to grind for more than a year just to play on equal footing.
I can't even understand wanting to

if they're at the same DPS, I take the 810 over the 1600... as the 810 has more room to improve due to CP. Thus, they're the better player

I said required not same, but lol good point still the passive defense the 1600 has will most likely exceed that of the 810 probably leading to greater survivability, which was more to my point.

IMO, the extra base health we get and reduced damage is going to outweigh any gains we get from CP. I haven't explicitly tested it, but with the reduced importance on CP, it's not going to be drastic.

There are only going to be a few situations where a player would survive a situation with the mitigation over one who doesn't have it. It's not like players get down to 1-2k health often in organized group content.

honey_badger82 · February 2021

As much as I didnt like some aspects of the initial changes they posed I was ok with it and actually looking forward to it. Then they nerfed some of the already small bonuses now recieved by CP and that is what changed my opinion. The only just change they made was lowering the HP gain for hanging onto ultimate. What I am not excited about since the beginning is the armor changes and and some of the racial changes.

With the new CP system yes lower end players are getting some good things like 1000 extra damage however we are losing big CP boosts we have now to damage. With master at arms I had a 22% increase to direct damage done not including the 12% physical damage done and 15% to melee weapon damage. With self and group buffs those percentages together far outweigh 1000 extra plus all the few perks I can slot in the new system. It's even more meaningless when our penetration is being reduced by about 3k yet dungeon, arena and trial enemies are not losing a proportionate amount of armor. We however are losing armor, they even reduced the heavy armor passive (Resolve) for no good reason. A 10% built in dmg reduction plus all the litte 4% ones we can slot now means we will take more damage and deal less ourselves. These 2 things essentially cancel each other out leading to no performance improvement for the lower end players it was meant to help it only hurts everyone else.

tmbrinks · February 2021

honey_badger82 wrote: »

As much as I didnt like some aspects of the initial changes they posed I was ok with it and actually looking forward to it. Then they nerfed some of the already small bonuses now recieved by CP and that is what changed my opinion. The only just change they made was lowering the HP gain for hanging onto ultimate. What I am not excited about since the beginning is the armor changes and and some of the racial changes.

With the new CP system yes lower end players are getting some good things like 1000 extra damage however we are losing big CP boosts we have now to damage. With master at arms I had a 22% increase to direct damage done not including the 12% physical damage done and 15% to melee weapon damage. With self and group buffs those percentages together far outweigh 1000 extra plus all the few perks I can slot in the new system. It's even more meaningless when our penetration is being reduced by about 3k yet dungeon, arena and trial enemies are not losing a proportionate amount of armor. We however are losing armor, they even reduced the heavy armor passive (Resolve) for no good reason. A 10% built in dmg reduction plus all the litte 4% ones we can slot now means we will take more damage and deal less ourselves. These 2 things essentially cancel each other out leading to no performance improvement for the lower end players it was meant to help it only hurts everyone else.

I hope you understand that that is one of the points of these changes. The CP system allowed for too much DPS increase, and was causing issues in content. So they reduce the importance of CP in that equation. Made it so lower CP players had a increase in dps (or at least a smaller decrease, but it's most likely an increase), and that CP was a smaller slope in the amount of power it gave.

Virtually all content would still be accomplishable with a 20-25% (and was in the past) loss in DPS (and it's likely to only be 5-10% with these changes), the only exception being vSS Godslayer type stuff.

honey_badger82 · February 2021

Sure... virtually all content can be completed... tell that to the tanks trying to hang on in a vet DLC dungeon final boss while taking 15% more damage and having significantly higher roll dodge costs. Meanwhile the DPS are doing 10% less damage further extending the time the tank needs to survive and healers need to keep everyone alive before running out of RSS.
I have had boss heavy attacks eat through a 15k damage shield and 1/3+ of my health while blocking when I didnt have enough stamina to roll dodge. Now that 1/3 will be more like 50%.

I did vet banished cells 2 hard mode and held off 7 daedroth with my templar tank self sustaining while healer focused on DPS 75% of the fight. I was roll dodging like heck to do it, now I highly doubt it would even be close to possible even with a big boost to HP and stamina as they will both be drained at a faster rate.