Trayyacakes wrote: »

I get why players would want compensation for all the hours played, but to be honest unlike any other MMO you already got rewarded by being able to progress past the cap. The cap is 810. Players were able to progress past that for when the cap got raised. No other game/MMO, that I'm aware of allows you to bank experience for the next level cap. Any other game would have set the cap and once you get there that's it no banking of xp... Here in this game you've been allowed to, for better or worse. To ask for more now because they are making changes is kind of silly... If you're going to quit because your over the cap already and it took you longer to earn those points than it will under the new system then weird flex but alright...

You make a really great point here. I don't know how many games i played at max level until they decided to raise it. In WoW you play about 20-22 months at cap before it gets raised again. All that XP that was wasted raiding and doing end game content and i started at the same place on the next set of levels as the person who just reached the cap a day before the cap was raised.

i dont like it...
they said for years after 810cp it was quadruple

so it should be something like

if CurrentCP > 810 then NewCP = 810 + (CurrentCP-810)*4

if their is a new cap after like 3600
they can again apply the quadruple cost
if NewCP > 3600 then NewCP = (NewCP - 3600) / 4 + 3600

and voila!

don't take 20 mins to code
and its fair for veteran players

ThorianB wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

No, there is no need to do this. Gifting players free CP when they already are above the current cap just for being above the current cap is unfair to everyone under cap, goes against the spirit of a lot of the changes happening this year, and reeks of entitlement.

There is no reason why high level players should be given anything just for being high level. We can work up to 3600 CP just like everyone else. The advantage is the huge head start many have. Having 1205 CP now is a much bigger headstart than having 205 CP but we should give the person that has 1205 CP 110 more CP just because they spent more time grinding out levels? Those levels were earned under the conditions of the old system. You got nothing for those levels, now you get to do something with them.

Also having 3600 CP isn't going to improve your character so much that it is going to make or break you. The new system is meant more about giving us meaningful choices rather than excessive amounts of power like the old system.

Despite a lot of casuals throwing the word entitled here in the thread, they act entitled themselves. why should they easily catch up to my cp level quicker than the amount of effort i put into playing the game over the years?

They aren't entitled, they still have to put in the work to gain the points. Being handed X CP just because i am CP Y is entitled though. The difference is one is gifted and the other other is earned. This thread speaks of the gifted and you are speaking of CP that is earned.

Will newer players level up to 810 faster than older players had to?

You don't have to answer cause the answer is going to be yes. Newer players and players sub 810 are being rewarded with an easier curve. 2k hours of gameplay for them will net them way more levels than 2k hours pre-CP2.0.

Sounds like a gift to me.

Im not happy in the slightest that i will need to grind to get back to a similar power that i currently am on live. Just like with the nerf to arena weapons, because they where too "op" throwing countless hours of hard grind in the bin, only to bring in perfected versions and give me the normal variant.... It is absolutely another kick in the teeth from ZOS showing no respect to veteran players.

This is all i will say about it because the ZOS censor squad will be in otherwise.

Kurat wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Ahh. Basically the richer (higher leveled CP) get richer. While the poor get the left overs. Excellent mentality.

They need to just increase the rate that you gain CP. Like how they have now but adjusted to the new cap.

How you figure that? It's the opposite. Current high cp players will get shafted and new players get easy ride due to adjusted curve below 1200. Someone who just picked up the game and started grinding, will be cp1200 in few months. I have been playing for 5 years (cp1400) and I'm then only 200cp ahead of noobs.

Firstly, my statement was towards the OP suggestion. Very easily you can see that he is asking for those who have played longer and have higher CP to be rewarded more CP.

Secondly, a lot of games have players slow down experience gain as you go higher in level. It's common practice. The purpose of the nnew CP system is so when you get to X CP value that you're power/strength is slightly marginal and that any other gain is horizontal progression. Whether it succeeds or not I don't know.

Just because you are CP1200 right now doesn't mean they should just give you more CP than someone that is CP300, 400, 800 or so on. Instead of going into the debate of players in one bracket deserve more than a player in another bracket just make as it is right now. The higher the CP you have the longer it takes for you to fill that XP bar to get more. It's already the current implementation. You might have forgotten Mr "I'm CP 1200". But it's a lot faster to gain CP at the start than what it is at a higher level.

Does it mean that it can't be capped at some point ? I.e., that there is no need to increase the bar and just have it a constant XP value for each CP point. Then no. It can be capped. That's fine. Just that it needs to be adjusted.

You are already in a position of entitlement for having played the game longer than a new player. So don't worry. You're not losing CP. Things are being adjusted around you to make the new system make sense with the new cap.

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It's incredible how many people don't understand that long time players are getting screwed with this change. With the new curve players will reach 810+ much faster than veteran players did. The time we've put into the game is not being respected. If the cap was never introduced and the current curve wasn't absolutely ridiculous a lot of us would be 2.5k+ already. This is the VMA perfected weapon fiasco all over again but much worse.

It doesnt matter to ZOS tho, the casual players are what make them their money. You dont need CP to RP and buy housing stuff from the crown store.

Player A:

• Grinds out CP to cap so they can "be competitive"
• Knows once they reach cap they will no longer get a return on CP gains but that they can still gain CP.
• Knows that the CP system is going to be replaced for more than a year but still gains CP because you can't turn it off
• Gets the new system and has a head start on leveling up to the new cap.
• Demands to be compensated for being high level and having a head start on the new cap even though no MMO in existence allows you to level pass cap and get a head start on the next cap increase but this one.
• Thinks this is a perfectly reasonable request.

Player B:

• Didn't grind CP to cap as they don't play to hurry up and get to the end.
• Slowly gains CP levels as the adventure and journey through the game.
• Knows the they wont get more benefits when they reach the cap but doesn't really care about "more power" anyway.
• Knows the system is going to be replaced, doesn't care and still continues to play the game the way they always have.
• Gets the new system and has multiples more levels to go now. Still doesn't care because its not about gaining power.
• Demands nothing.
• Doesn't say a word about the high CP levels( over 810) being allowed to get a big head start on new levels even though this is something that isn't done in other MMOs, in part to allow newer and more casual players to catch up.

Also i want to mention in other games its normal for older levels to be gained faster by newer players usually with some sort of XP buff so they can catch up faster to newer content. While the vet players in this game are asking for the "catch up bonus" it is actually a lot more common in the industry for the players under cap to be given catch up bonuses not the players that already reached the old cap and played at it for some time.

This system is actually important in games in order to keep new players coming into the game and letting them have a chance to catch up. I have answered so many questions on other public forums from players interested in this game if it was to late to start playing this game, catch up, or if the game was dying. Without a constant stream of new players this game will die and there will be no one to replace the vet players that move on to other games.

So vet players above cap shouldn't be getting extra levels. They should get nothing. The benefit they get is that they leveled past cap a long time ago but were able to bank all that extra XP. If anything new players below cap should get a fistful of XP scrolls to help them catch up. Speaking of XP scrolls i would think that vet players have fist full of XP scrolls banked. I know i have over 150 XP scrolls from the daily rewards alone and i am going to get another 9 this month. Then we have XP events regularly as well.

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

No, there is no need to do this. Gifting players free CP when they already are above the current cap just for being above the current cap is unfair to everyone under cap, goes against the spirit of a lot of the changes happening this year, and reeks of entitlement.

There is no reason why high level players should be given anything just for being high level. We can work up to 3600 CP just like everyone else. The advantage is the huge head start many have. Having 1205 CP now is a much bigger headstart than having 205 CP but we should give the person that has 1205 CP 110 more CP just because they spent more time grinding out levels? Those levels were earned under the conditions of the old system. You got nothing for those levels, now you get to do something with them.

Also having 3600 CP isn't going to improve your character so much that it is going to make or break you. The new system is meant more about giving us meaningful choices rather than excessive amounts of power like the old system.

Despite a lot of casuals throwing the word entitled here in the thread, they act entitled themselves. why should they easily catch up to my cp level quicker than the amount of effort i put into playing the game over the years?

They aren't entitled, they still have to put in the work to gain the points. Being handed X CP just because i am CP Y is entitled though. The difference is one is gifted and the other other is earned. This thread speaks of the gifted and you are speaking of CP that is earned.

Will newer players level up to 810 faster than older players had to?

You don't have to answer cause the answer is going to be yes. Newer players and players sub 810 are being rewarded with an easier curve. 2k hours of gameplay for them will net them way more levels than 2k hours pre-CP2.0.

Sounds like a gift to me.

No giving a players above 810 levels they didn't actually earn is a gift. If it takes less time for lower level players to go from level X to level Y( i would like to see the info on where the devs said they are going to do this if you have it) that is no different than giving them an XP scroll. They still have to earn those levels they can just earn it at a faster rate than we did which is completely normal in an MMO so i don't understand why some vet players are so upset about this. ZOS is giving us a way better deal than end game players normally get when the cap is raised.

They should just convert the current total XP of a player into the new level curve.
For some it would be a nice boost, a few cp for others, but no one could feel screwed because you dont lose any earned xp, aka timeinvest.

That´s the way it should be handled imo.

They could have entirely stopped CP gain beyond 810, and everyone with more than 810 would all be at 810. Maybe we already got our gift?

I do think they will adjust the formula with the new cap at 3600, and keep the 1.5X multiplier beyond cap of 3600 only.

(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) for those under 3600 CP @1200 CP = 172906 XP
(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 for those over 3600 CP
vs. old cap formula on live (((CP Level / (810 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 @1200 CP = 970157 XP

If this is the case we will gain CP almost 6 times faster at 1200 than we currently do on live.
3600 is what the cap will change to. It is hard to count in the new CP constellations, but I believe in the blue tree alone there are over 2000 CP points to be spent meaning you would need 6000 plus CP to unlock everything. So we are a long way from being able to do that which I believe is their intention to create meaningful choices.

I guess we will have to wait and see when it goes live exactly how they adjust CP XP gain, but I don't know why they wouldn't use the same formula as is on live with modifying the old cap to the new cap. It seemed to work just fine before they locked CP in at 810 max, and should work just as well moving forward. They obviously have not yet adjusted this on test, and it is still the same formula there with the cap still at 810. Hopefully they change that on test, and we see that this is in fact the direction they are going modifying the formula to use the new 3600 cap.

Thanks for sharing your opinions everyone
Hopefully, ZOS will explain more on their plans regarding the upcoming adjustment of the champion system experience curve in one of the next PTS incremental patches.

It will only be fair if they will grant veteran players additional champion points so their experience gained in Champion System 1.0 which required many thousands of hours of time spent won't be partly lost.
Imagine this, you spent over 5K hours and earned X number of experience points and 50% of it went to Oblivion...

No.
Why do i need to grind EXP after playing the game for 6 years?
It's not my fault they are way too late to release the new system.

ThorianB wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

It's incredible how many people don't understand that long time players are getting screwed with this change. With the new curve players will reach 810+ much faster than veteran players did. The time we've put into the game is not being respected. If the cap was never introduced and the current curve wasn't absolutely ridiculous a lot of us would be 2.5k+ already. This is the VMA perfected weapon fiasco all over again but much worse.

It doesnt matter to ZOS tho, the casual players are what make them their money. You dont need CP to RP and buy housing stuff from the crown store.

Player A:

• Grinds out CP to cap so they can "be competitive"
• Knows once they reach cap they will no longer get a return on CP gains but that they can still gain CP.
• Knows that the CP system is going to be replaced for more than a year but still gains CP because you can't turn it off
• Gets the new system and has a head start on leveling up to the new cap.
• Demands to be compensated for being high level and having a head start on the new cap even though no MMO in existence allows you to level pass cap and get a head start on the next cap increase but this one.
• Thinks this is a perfectly reasonable request.

Player B:

• Didn't grind CP to cap as they don't play to hurry up and get to the end.
• Slowly gains CP levels as the adventure and journey through the game.
• Knows the they wont get more benefits when they reach the cap but doesn't really care about "more power" anyway.
• Knows the system is going to be replaced, doesn't care and still continues to play the game the way they always have.
• Gets the new system and has multiples more levels to go now. Still doesn't care because its not about gaining power.
• Demands nothing.
• Doesn't say a word about the high CP levels( over 810) being allowed to get a big head start on new levels even though this is something that isn't done in other MMOs, in part to allow newer and more casual players to catch up.

Also i want to mention in other games its normal for older levels to be gained faster by newer players usually with some sort of XP buff so they can catch up faster to newer content. While the vet players in this game are asking for the "catch up bonus" it is actually a lot more common in the industry for the players under cap to be given catch up bonuses not the players that already reached the old cap and played at it for some time.

This system is actually important in games in order to keep new players coming into the game and letting them have a chance to catch up. I have answered so many questions on other public forums from players interested in this game if it was to late to start playing this game, catch up, or if the game was dying. Without a constant stream of new players this game will die and there will be no one to replace the vet players that move on to other games.

So vet players above cap shouldn't be getting extra levels. They should get nothing. The benefit they get is that they leveled past cap a long time ago but were able to bank all that extra XP. If anything new players below cap should get a fistful of XP scrolls to help them catch up. Speaking of XP scrolls i would think that vet players have fist full of XP scrolls banked. I know i have over 150 XP scrolls from the daily rewards alone and i am going to get another 9 this month. Then we have XP events regularly as well.

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

No, there is no need to do this. Gifting players free CP when they already are above the current cap just for being above the current cap is unfair to everyone under cap, goes against the spirit of a lot of the changes happening this year, and reeks of entitlement.

There is no reason why high level players should be given anything just for being high level. We can work up to 3600 CP just like everyone else. The advantage is the huge head start many have. Having 1205 CP now is a much bigger headstart than having 205 CP but we should give the person that has 1205 CP 110 more CP just because they spent more time grinding out levels? Those levels were earned under the conditions of the old system. You got nothing for those levels, now you get to do something with them.

Also having 3600 CP isn't going to improve your character so much that it is going to make or break you. The new system is meant more about giving us meaningful choices rather than excessive amounts of power like the old system.

Despite a lot of casuals throwing the word entitled here in the thread, they act entitled themselves. why should they easily catch up to my cp level quicker than the amount of effort i put into playing the game over the years?

They aren't entitled, they still have to put in the work to gain the points. Being handed X CP just because i am CP Y is entitled though. The difference is one is gifted and the other other is earned. This thread speaks of the gifted and you are speaking of CP that is earned.

Will newer players level up to 810 faster than older players had to?

You don't have to answer cause the answer is going to be yes. Newer players and players sub 810 are being rewarded with an easier curve. 2k hours of gameplay for them will net them way more levels than 2k hours pre-CP2.0.

Sounds like a gift to me.

No giving a players above 810 levels they didn't actually earn is a gift. If it takes less time for lower level players to go from level X to level Y( i would like to see the info on where the devs said they are going to do this if you have it) that is no different than giving them an XP scroll. They still have to earn those levels they can just earn it at a faster rate than we did which is completely normal in an MMO so i don't understand why some vet players are so upset about this. ZOS is giving us a way better deal than end game players normally get when the cap is raised.

It's been years since the CP was left at 810 so no one rushed.

Players over 810 earned all the exp after 810, at a significantly slower rate. If this crazy curve didn't exist then nothing would be a problem because we would have earned exp at the same rate as everyone else.

You honestly think it's going to take the same amount of time to reach 810 as it does now? That's an even worse case for your argument for newer players.

People are upset because we've had our progress stunted for literally years while the devs sat on their hands. If this was the plan going back two years now, the curve should have been adjusted and everyone should have been gaining exp at a reasonable rate. The way it is, basically no one has actually tried to level because ZOS never said anything about making the cap 3600 again.

You think this change will help new players but it's so far from the truth it's insane. As soon as a person hears 50 levels + 3600 more levels, they will uninstall lmao.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

They should just convert the current total XP of a player into the new level curve.
For some it would be a nice boost, a few cp for others, but no one could feel screwed because you dont lose any earned xp, aka timeinvest.

That´s the way it should be handled imo.

i am 100% with you if ZOS/ESO DEV'S would just do the right thing an go off XP gained and not CP gained all this your asking for something you did not earn go right out the door as WE all earned OUR XP and not 1 point of that should be wasted when an game adds in an NEW system

If you earned XP you either did it as a byproduct of playing the game as you would have anyway at max level, or you gained it for the purpose of gaining CP over that same cap.....you loose none of the CP if that was your goal, and if the goal was the former( that you just were playing to play) then you loose nothing there.

People are formulating their argument based on how it can be twisted to the new system, not based on the reality of what was the purpose of the past actions....ie playing the game/grinding.

You loose none of the cp you gained. You just gained it slower then you could have if you just would have been patient. It wasnt hard to guess that if a new cap was created, a version of "enlightenment" would exist.