the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

That'd basically mean valuing it like a tri stat bonus, but like I said it's hard to do that very consistently.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

Counting it only once isn't fair either. And so is the comparison between Crafty Alfiq and Shacklebreaker, we can't sinply neglect the 2k stamina bonus as if it wasn't there. And the more you can make use of both stats, the more valuable the passive becomes.

I'd say the easiest calculation for Dunmer value would be:
- 5pc bonuses standardized to have value of 2,32
- Dunmer being 92,71% of Shacklebreaker

Therefore Dunmer having value of the passive at 2,15 instead of 3,48 (1,74+1,74).

I think that's possible, but it'd mean that you'd have to use similar logic for all races that aren't focused on a single stat and give them a similar penalty. It's really more DPS oriented than anything else to apply a penalty for mixed stats, so I think it's too specific.

We're already only counting spell+weapon damage as a single bonus, so none of this is new.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

That'd basically mean valuing it like a tri stat bonus, but like I said it's hard to do that very consistently.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

Counting it only once isn't fair either. And so is the comparison between Crafty Alfiq and Shacklebreaker, we can't sinply neglect the 2k stamina bonus as if it wasn't there. And the more you can make use of both stats, the more valuable the passive becomes.

I'd say the easiest calculation for Dunmer value would be:
- 5pc bonuses standardized to have value of 2,32
- Dunmer being 92,71% of Shacklebreaker

Therefore Dunmer having value of the passive at 2,15 instead of 3,48 (1,74+1,74).

I think that's possible, but it'd mean that you'd have to use similar logic for all races that aren't focused on a single stat and give them a similar penalty. It's really more DPS oriented than anything else to apply a penalty for mixed stats, so I think it's too specific.

We're already only counting spell+weapon damage as a single bonus, so none of this is new.

I'm not saying that you don't have a point, but stamina is useful for things other than strict dps, so assigning a value is slightly more complicated. I don't think the power level of High Elf and Dark Elf for just about any role in the game except maybe stamina dps is very far apart. Admittedly this isn't necessarily a good argument, but I still think something like 75 %-80 % is a better penalty to apply. Originally dark elves were intended to have around 3000 total resources, before ZOS decided to buff their bonuses during PTS to make them more viable as a hybrid race.
Maybe you could use food as a point of comparison? Single stat vs bi stat food?

Food bonuses are 61%, or basically the same as Shacklebreaker.

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

That'd basically mean valuing it like a tri stat bonus, but like I said it's hard to do that very consistently.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

Counting it only once isn't fair either. And so is the comparison between Crafty Alfiq and Shacklebreaker, we can't sinply neglect the 2k stamina bonus as if it wasn't there. And the more you can make use of both stats, the more valuable the passive becomes.

I'd say the easiest calculation for Dunmer value would be:
- 5pc bonuses standardized to have value of 2,32
- Dunmer being 92,71% of Shacklebreaker

Therefore Dunmer having value of the passive at 2,15 instead of 3,48 (1,74+1,74).

I think that's possible, but it'd mean that you'd have to use similar logic for all races that aren't focused on a single stat and give them a similar penalty. It's really more DPS oriented than anything else to apply a penalty for mixed stats, so I think it's too specific.

We're already only counting spell+weapon damage as a single bonus, so none of this is new.

I'm not saying that you don't have a point, but stamina is useful for things other than strict dps, so assigning a value is slightly more complicated. I don't think the power level of High Elf and Dark Elf for just about any role in the game except maybe stamina dps is very far apart. Admittedly this isn't necessarily a good argument, but I still think something like 75 %-80 % is a better penalty to apply. Originally dark elves were intended to have around 3000 total resources, before ZOS decided to buff their bonuses during PTS to make them more viable as a hybrid race.
Maybe you could use food as a point of comparison? Single stat vs bi stat food?

Food bonuses are 61%, or basically the same as Shacklebreaker.

Incorrect, it's about 81 %.

Kuratius wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

@the1andonlyskwex Does this look like a good compromise?

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

I'd say the easiest calculation for Dunmer value would be:
- 5pc bonuses standardized to have value of 2,32
- Dunmer being 92,71% of Shacklebreaker

Therefore Dunmer having value of the passive at 2,15 instead of 3,48 (1,74+1,74).

Yes, that's just using the Shacklebreaker standard, which I originally suggested as an option before you dismissed using 5 piece bonuses for comparisons.

You mistake me with someone. I was the one comparing High Elf damage reduction while casting to Light of Cyrodiil 5pc bonus, and Orc heal bonus to Beekeeper 5pc bonus from the very beggining.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

All this Is a little inacurrate because of different power budget of 5 pc bonuses. We should avoid 5 pc bonus comparison as much as we can.

You got me on that.

We should use what we can to solve each individual case. Also the WD/SD passive of orcs, dunmers and altmers. How much is it worth? Is it 2 thanks to Shacklebreaker standard bonus?

Personally I wouldn't go that far. Weapon/Spell damage are generally not useful on the same build, and many set bonuses give both in equal measure without taking penalties.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

That'd basically mean valuing it like a tri stat bonus, but like I said it's hard to do that very consistently.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Kuratius wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I think you're overvaluing the Dark Elf mag+stam bonuses. Compare Shacklebreaker to Crafty Alfiq, and look at the one piece bonus on Domihaus (or Swarm Mother). Unfortunately, even those two examples are inconsistent with each other, but it's certainly clear that mag+stam is worth less than the sum of it's parts.

You could probably look at domihaus, but I don't think simply halving the value is good. Probably just subtract a third or so? So similar to a 3 stat bonus with one stat lacking. Still, it might make it too complicated to apply this consistently to all races (and it's really more dps oriented than anything).

Based on Domihaus, the OP is outright double counting the Dark Elf mag+stam bonus. I'm not really sure that's fair though, since a comparison to Crafty Alfiq values Shacklebreaker's 5 piece as 2550/4130 or 0.62x as much as an equivalent single-stat bonus (instead of 0.5x).

Counting it only once isn't fair either. And so is the comparison between Crafty Alfiq and Shacklebreaker, we can't sinply neglect the 2k stamina bonus as if it wasn't there. And the more you can make use of both stats, the more valuable the passive becomes.

I'd say the easiest calculation for Dunmer value would be:
- 5pc bonuses standardized to have value of 2,32
- Dunmer being 92,71% of Shacklebreaker

Therefore Dunmer having value of the passive at 2,15 instead of 3,48 (1,74+1,74).

I think that's possible, but it'd mean that you'd have to use similar logic for all races that aren't focused on a single stat and give them a similar penalty. It's really more DPS oriented than anything else to apply a penalty for mixed stats, so I think it's too specific.

We're already only counting spell+weapon damage as a single bonus, so none of this is new.

I'm not saying that you don't have a point, but stamina is useful for things other than strict dps, so assigning a value is slightly more complicated. I don't think the power level of High Elf and Dark Elf for just about any role in the game except maybe stamina dps is very far apart. Admittedly this isn't necessarily a good argument, but I still think something like 75 %-80 % is a better penalty to apply. Originally dark elves were intended to have around 3000 total resources, before ZOS decided to buff their bonuses during PTS to make them more viable as a hybrid race.
Maybe you could use food as a point of comparison? Single stat vs bi stat food?

Food bonuses are 61%, or basically the same as Shacklebreaker.

Incorrect, it's about 81 %.

You're doing the math wrong. The "value" of the stats on bi stat food is 6048/(4936*2)=0.61=61%

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion this patch about racial balance following the changes to some races. Among this there has often been comparisons made of various race’s individual passives worth using the general set bonus values. However, these have often been incomplete or comparing a single passive. So I thought I would post this to try to give an overall picture of each races racial set bonus value for the updated passives.

The purpose of this isn’t to show if races are stronger or weaker, as there is definitely still some subjectivity in the set bonus values and their relative worth, but merely provide a complete basis for comparison when discussing or comparing the racial passives using set bonus values, as well as pointing out some of the weaknesses of this approach.

Establishing Equivalent Set Bonus Values – either because they exist as set bonuses, or from conversion from 5 piece bonuses, glyphs, jewelry traits, mundus stones or minor buffs(note, these don’t always line up, so where there was a discrepancy I used them in this order). In the case of resource restore I have applied a factor of 1.7 (assuming an average of +70% regen bonuses, which hopefully is about right given +40% from major buff, and then a couple of either the minor buff, armor passive and/or class passives). This gives the following values

Direct from Sets:
Health: 1206
Mag/Stam: 1096
Tri-Stat (total) : 1699 (*note there is a slight approximation here as tri stats from sets/glyphs are slightly weight towards health, but tri stats from races are even. But the error should be small)
Regen: 129
Damage: 129 of both
Pen: 1487
Armor: 1487
Healing Done: 4%

Using 5 piece set bonuses as reference (5 piece bonuses are worth 2.32 a set bonus)
Cost Reduction: 10/2.32=4.31 (Using Seducer as reference)
Tri Cost Reduction: 6/2.32=2.58 (Using Alteration Mastery as reference)
Snare Reduction: 50/2.32 = 21.55 (Using Ranger’s Gait)
Ult Gen: 6/5 /2.32 = 0.52 ult/s (from werewolf hide 6 ult every 1.5 sec)
Damage Reduction while casting: 15/2.32*0.9 = 5.82 (from Light of Cyrodiil, but apply a factor of 0.9 as this isn't the full effect of that sets five piece)

Using Jewelry glyphs as reference (glyphs are worth 1.31-1.35 a set bonus, using 1.33)
Tri-Regen (total): 129*1.5=193.5 (Prismatic recovery indicate tri regen totals 1.5x single recovery)
Resist Element** : 3520/1.33 = 2646.6

Using Jewellery Traits (jewelry traits are worth 0.8 of a set bonus)
Speed: 7/0.8 = 8.75 (using swift as reference)

Using Mundus (mundus is worth 1.85 of a set bonus)
Crit Damage: 11/1.85 = 5.96 (Using Shadow)

From minor buffs (in the last update ZOS has indicated that minor buffs are worth 2 set lines)


Using the conversion for regen to restore using a factor of 1.7 (assuming +70% regen bonuses are average)
Restore (per 2 sec) : 129*1.7 = 219.3
Tri Restore (total per 2 sec): 193.5*1.7 = 328.95

Note there are still some racial passives that it isn’t easy to establish a set value for as they don’t exist as bonuses from any of the above sources, which includes weapon cost reduction, damage reduction while casting, sprint speed and cost reduction, sneak radius reduction and detection radius increase. Generally in the case of these passives I am calculating the set worth without it or making an estimate of a suggested value.

Additionally, in the case of stamina resources restore , it should be noted that there is a slight use case advantage of this over regen, in that it will still work while blocking (or in the case of magicka restore when using magicka blocking). This potentially gives a slight advantage that is note shown in these numbers to races that have such resource restore (Argonian, High Elf, Redguard).

**Also, I think that this process is overvaluing elemental resistances – the equivalent set worth for an element resist is less than double the armor value, but only applies to 1/8 of the damage types (which seems a bit weak). I am still using this as I have no other basis for comparison, but it should be noted that any race with these (indicated by ** below) probably has a higher set worth value than it would if these resists were worth less.

[EDIT Following some discussion I have added an alternate method of including the elemental resistances, simply by getting calculating it based on what proportion of incoming damage is that damage type. I'll leave it up to you to decide how much incoming damage is of that type.]

On to the races:

Breton: 5.31 *
(*) because Breton’s spell resistance is variable, and there is also no basis for comparison for just spell resistance. It could be argued that spell resistance standard set line is double that of armour, and this is what was used in conjunction with the assumption of 10% uptime of the extra resistance. If its more Breton would have higher worth.

Mag: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Mag Regen: 130/129 = 1.01
Spell Resist: (2310 + 0.1*2310)/(1487*2) = 0.85
Mag Cost Red: 7/4.31 = 1.62
Total: 6.01

Redguard: 5.28 *
(*) I made an estimate here that weapon cost reductions standard set bonus would be double generic cost reduction, based on the assumption that weapon abilities make up half the abilities used. This is obviously a very general assumption, so if a lesser proportion weapon abilities is used, redguard gets proportionally weaker value wise.
This value also includes snare reduction, which really could have been ignored given some of the other non-conbat “flavor” passives that were ignored for other races. If so, Redguard is even worse set value than the number above.

Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam Restore: (1005/5*2)/219.3 = 1.83
Weapon Cost Red: 8/(4.31*2) = 0.93
Snare Reduction: 15/21.55 = 0.70
Total: 5.28

Orc: 8.97 * (4.12 without the heal passive) [edit: there has been some discussion on finding an good basis for comparison for the orc heal. Using the standard set regen bonus of 129 and scaling for recovery buffs (like is done for every other restore value) results in the 8.97. If the beekeeper 5 piece is used instead, this becomes 5.73, but it should be noted that this is a deviation from the standard set bonuses]
(*) Personally I think the heal is being way over valued here and is artificially inflating this value, as it makes up over half the value for the race. The heal is significantly higher than say, High Elf or Redguard restore, but the heal is probably less useful. Unfortunately I had no basis to factor this in, so just take the above value with a grain of salt.
Also I made an estimate that sprint speed and cost reduction is worth about 1/3 of general speed.

Health: 1000/1206 = 0.83
Stam: 1000/1096 = 0.91
Heal: (2125*2)/219.3 = 4.85 !! This looks overvalued, it doesn’t seem like it should be worth this much.
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Sprint Speed and Cost Reduction: 10/(8.75) *1/3 = 0.38
Total: 8.97

Nord: 6.66 ** ([edit] or 4.91 + 3.11*x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming frost damage. 5.3 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Health: 1000/1206 = 0.83
Stam: 1500/1096 = 1.37
Ult: 0.5/0.52 = 0.97
Armor: 2600/1487 = 1.75
Frost Resist: 4620/2646.6 = 1.75
Frost Resist Alternative: 4620/1487 * x = 3.11 x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming frost damage
Total: 6.66 (or 4.91 + 3.11*x)

Argonian: 6.27 ** ([edit] or 4.53 + 1.55*x + 1.55*y, where x and y are the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison and disease damage, respectively. 4.9 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Tri Stat (total): 3000/1699 = 1.77
Tri Restore (total ever 2 sec): = (3*3125/45*2)/328.95 = 1.27
Poison Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Poison Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * x = 1.55x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison damage
Disease Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Disease Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * y = 1.55y, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming disease damage
Healing: 6/4 = 1.5
Total: 6.27 (or 4.53 + 1.55*x + 1.55*y)

Dark Elf: 7.23 ** ([edit] or 5.49 + 3.11*x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming fire damage. 5.87 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Stam: 1910/1096 = 1.74
Mag: 1910/1096 = 1.74
Fire Resist: 4620/2646.6 = 1.74
Fire Resist Alternative: 4620/1487 * x = 3.11 x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming fire damage
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Total: 7.23 (or 5.49 + 3.11*x)

Khajiit: 5.02 * (+1?)
(*) because I have omitted the sneak radius reduction as I don’t have a proper basis for comparison. I guess I could look at sets like Darloc Brae that give a 2m reduction plus a cost reduction, which would indicate that Khajiit’s 3m reduction might be worth about 1?

Tri-Stat (total): 2745/1699 = 1.62
Tri- Regen (total): 270/193.5 = 1.40
Crit Damage and Healing: 12/5.96 = 2.01
Sneak radius reduction: 1?
Total: 5.02 (+1?)

Wood Elf: 6.78 * (+1?) ** ([edit] or 5.04 (+1?) + 1.55*x + 1.55*y, where x and y are the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison and disease damage, respectively. 5.42 (+1?) if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)
(*) Same issue as Khajiit but this time with detection. Again, could estimate it about 1?

Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam Regen: 258/129 = 2
Pen: 950/1487 = 0.64
Speed: 5/8.74 = 0.57
Poison Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Poison Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * x = 1.55x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison damage
Disease Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Disease Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * y = 1.55y, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming disease damage
Detection radius increase: 1?
Total: 6.78 (+1?) (or 5.04 (+1?) + 1.55*x + 1.55*y

High Elf: 5.82
(*) Have omitted damage reduction while casting, given no basis for comparison. Would add just a little, 0.5?

Mag: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam or Mag Restore: (625/5*2)/219.3 = 1.13
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Damage Reduction while casting: 5/5.82 = 0.86
Total: 4.96 (+0.5?)

Imperial 5.80

Health: 2000/1206 = 1.66
Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Tri Cost Reduction: 6/2.58 = 2.32
Total: 5.80

Possibly the biggest takeaway from all this is that at best, looking at the set bonus equivalence for the races is only part of the story, as it shows that some of the races we consider BiS actually have really low set bonus equivalent worth (ie: High Elf), and some of the races we consider weaker actually have quite high worth (ie: argonian). This is in part due to some bonuses in the set bonus equivalence being over-valued (see: elemental resitances) but also can be a problem if a race has passives that don’t synergize.

I myself have been probably been guilty of leaning on this sort of comparison a bit too much, (especially in some recent discussions regarding argonians). Its still useful, but not the whole picture.

Oh and I've probably made an omission or arithmetical error somewhere in all that, if you notice one let me know and I will update.

DragonBourneIdentity wrote: »

I think a fair way to balance Redguards 8% weapon cost vs Imperials 6% all cost (don't forget this includes ult) which is equal to a 5pc bonus (acrobat) is to give Redguards 8% block and bash cost reduction too.

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion this patch about racial balance following the changes to some races. Among this there has often been comparisons made of various race’s individual passives worth using the general set bonus values. However, these have often been incomplete or comparing a single passive. So I thought I would post this to try to give an overall picture of each races racial set bonus value for the updated passives.

The purpose of this isn’t to show if races are stronger or weaker, as there is definitely still some subjectivity in the set bonus values and their relative worth, but merely provide a complete basis for comparison when discussing or comparing the racial passives using set bonus values, as well as pointing out some of the weaknesses of this approach.

Establishing Equivalent Set Bonus Values – either because they exist as set bonuses, or from conversion from 5 piece bonuses, glyphs, jewelry traits, mundus stones or minor buffs(note, these don’t always line up, so where there was a discrepancy I used them in this order). In the case of resource restore I have applied a factor of 1.7 (assuming an average of +70% regen bonuses, which hopefully is about right given +40% from major buff, and then a couple of either the minor buff, armor passive and/or class passives). This gives the following values

Direct from Sets:
Health: 1206
Mag/Stam: 1096
Tri-Stat (total) : 1699 (*note there is a slight approximation here as tri stats from sets/glyphs are slightly weight towards health, but tri stats from races are even. But the error should be small)
Regen: 129
Damage: 129 of both
Pen: 1487
Armor: 1487
Healing Done: 4%

Using 5 piece set bonuses as reference (5 piece bonuses are worth 2.32 a set bonus)
Cost Reduction: 10/2.32=4.31 (Using Seducer as reference)
Tri Cost Reduction: 6/2.32=2.58 (Using Alteration Mastery as reference)
Snare Reduction: 50/2.32 = 21.55 (Using Ranger’s Gait)
Ult Gen: 6/5 /2.32 = 0.52 ult/s (from werewolf hide 6 ult every 1.5 sec)
Damage Reduction while casting: 15/2.32*0.9 = 5.82 (from Light of Cyrodiil, but apply a factor of 0.9 as this isn't the full effect of that sets five piece)

Using Jewelry glyphs as reference (glyphs are worth 1.31-1.35 a set bonus, using 1.33)
Tri-Regen (total): 129*1.5=193.5 (Prismatic recovery indicate tri regen totals 1.5x single recovery)
Resist Element** : 3520/1.33 = 2646.6

Using Jewellery Traits (jewelry traits are worth 0.8 of a set bonus)
Speed: 7/0.8 = 8.75 (using swift as reference)

Using Mundus (mundus is worth 1.85 of a set bonus)
Crit Damage: 11/1.85 = 5.96 (Using Shadow)

From minor buffs (in the last update ZOS has indicated that minor buffs are worth 2 set lines)


Using the conversion for regen to restore using a factor of 1.7 (assuming +70% regen bonuses are average)
Restore (per 2 sec) : 129*1.7 = 219.3
Tri Restore (total per 2 sec): 193.5*1.7 = 328.95

Note there are still some racial passives that it isn’t easy to establish a set value for as they don’t exist as bonuses from any of the above sources, which includes weapon cost reduction, damage reduction while casting, sprint speed and cost reduction, sneak radius reduction and detection radius increase. Generally in the case of these passives I am calculating the set worth without it or making an estimate of a suggested value.

Additionally, in the case of stamina resources restore , it should be noted that there is a slight use case advantage of this over regen, in that it will still work while blocking (or in the case of magicka restore when using magicka blocking). This potentially gives a slight advantage that is note shown in these numbers to races that have such resource restore (Argonian, High Elf, Redguard).

**Also, I think that this process is overvaluing elemental resistances – the equivalent set worth for an element resist is less than double the armor value, but only applies to 1/8 of the damage types (which seems a bit weak). I am still using this as I have no other basis for comparison, but it should be noted that any race with these (indicated by ** below) probably has a higher set worth value than it would if these resists were worth less.

[EDIT Following some discussion I have added an alternate method of including the elemental resistances, simply by getting calculating it based on what proportion of incoming damage is that damage type. I'll leave it up to you to decide how much incoming damage is of that type.]

On to the races:

Breton: 5.31 *
(*) because Breton’s spell resistance is variable, and there is also no basis for comparison for just spell resistance. It could be argued that spell resistance standard set line is double that of armour, and this is what was used in conjunction with the assumption of 10% uptime of the extra resistance. If its more Breton would have higher worth.

Mag: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Mag Regen: 130/129 = 1.01
Spell Resist: (2310 + 0.1*2310)/(1487*2) = 0.85
Mag Cost Red: 7/4.31 = 1.62
Total: 6.01

Redguard: 5.28 *
(*) I made an estimate here that weapon cost reductions standard set bonus would be double generic cost reduction, based on the assumption that weapon abilities make up half the abilities used. This is obviously a very general assumption, so if a lesser proportion weapon abilities is used, redguard gets proportionally weaker value wise.
This value also includes snare reduction, which really could have been ignored given some of the other non-conbat “flavor” passives that were ignored for other races. If so, Redguard is even worse set value than the number above.

Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam Restore: (1005/5*2)/219.3 = 1.83
Weapon Cost Red: 8/(4.31*2) = 0.93
Snare Reduction: 15/21.55 = 0.70
Total: 5.28

Orc: 8.97 * (4.12 without the heal passive) [edit: there has been some discussion on finding an good basis for comparison for the orc heal. Using the standard set regen bonus of 129 and scaling for recovery buffs (like is done for every other restore value) results in the 8.97. If the beekeeper 5 piece is used instead, this becomes 5.73, but it should be noted that this is a deviation from the standard set bonuses]
(*) Personally I think the heal is being way over valued here and is artificially inflating this value, as it makes up over half the value for the race. The heal is significantly higher than say, High Elf or Redguard restore, but the heal is probably less useful. Unfortunately I had no basis to factor this in, so just take the above value with a grain of salt.
Also I made an estimate that sprint speed and cost reduction is worth about 1/3 of general speed.

Health: 1000/1206 = 0.83
Stam: 1000/1096 = 0.91
Heal: (2125*2)/219.3 = 4.85 !! This looks overvalued, it doesn’t seem like it should be worth this much.
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Sprint Speed and Cost Reduction: 10/(8.75) *1/3 = 0.38
Total: 8.97

Nord: 6.66 ** ([edit] or 4.91 + 3.11*x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming frost damage. 5.3 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Health: 1000/1206 = 0.83
Stam: 1500/1096 = 1.37
Ult: 0.5/0.52 = 0.97
Armor: 2600/1487 = 1.75
Frost Resist: 4620/2646.6 = 1.75
Frost Resist Alternative: 4620/1487 * x = 3.11 x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming frost damage
Total: 6.66 (or 4.91 + 3.11*x)

Argonian: 6.27 ** ([edit] or 4.53 + 1.55*x + 1.55*y, where x and y are the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison and disease damage, respectively. 4.9 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Tri Stat (total): 3000/1699 = 1.77
Tri Restore (total ever 2 sec): = (3*3125/45*2)/328.95 = 1.27
Poison Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Poison Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * x = 1.55x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison damage
Disease Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Disease Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * y = 1.55y, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming disease damage
Healing: 6/4 = 1.5
Total: 6.27 (or 4.53 + 1.55*x + 1.55*y)

Dark Elf: 7.23 ** ([edit] or 5.49 + 3.11*x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming fire damage. 5.87 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Stam: 1910/1096 = 1.74
Mag: 1910/1096 = 1.74
Fire Resist: 4620/2646.6 = 1.74
Fire Resist Alternative: 4620/1487 * x = 3.11 x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming fire damage
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Total: 7.23 (or 5.49 + 3.11*x)

Khajiit: 5.02 * (+1?)
(*) because I have omitted the sneak radius reduction as I don’t have a proper basis for comparison. I guess I could look at sets like Darloc Brae that give a 2m reduction plus a cost reduction, which would indicate that Khajiit’s 3m reduction might be worth about 1?

Tri-Stat (total): 2745/1699 = 1.62
Tri- Regen (total): 270/193.5 = 1.40
Crit Damage and Healing: 12/5.96 = 2.01
Sneak radius reduction: 1?
Total: 5.02 (+1?)

Wood Elf: 6.78 * (+1?) ** ([edit] or 5.04 (+1?) + 1.55*x + 1.55*y, where x and y are the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison and disease damage, respectively. 5.42 (+1?) if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)
(*) Same issue as Khajiit but this time with detection. Again, could estimate it about 1?

Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam Regen: 258/129 = 2
Pen: 950/1487 = 0.64
Speed: 5/8.74 = 0.57
Poison Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Poison Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * x = 1.55x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison damage
Disease Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Disease Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * y = 1.55y, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming disease damage
Detection radius increase: 1?
Total: 6.78 (+1?) (or 5.04 (+1?) + 1.55*x + 1.55*y

High Elf: 5.82
(*) Have omitted damage reduction while casting, given no basis for comparison. Would add just a little, 0.5?

Mag: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam or Mag Restore: (625/5*2)/219.3 = 1.13
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Damage Reduction while casting: 5/5.82 = 0.86
Total: 4.96 (+0.5?)

Imperial 5.80

Health: 2000/1206 = 1.66
Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Tri Cost Reduction: 6/2.58 = 2.32
Total: 5.80

Possibly the biggest takeaway from all this is that at best, looking at the set bonus equivalence for the races is only part of the story, as it shows that some of the races we consider BiS actually have really low set bonus equivalent worth (ie: High Elf), and some of the races we consider weaker actually have quite high worth (ie: argonian). This is in part due to some bonuses in the set bonus equivalence being over-valued (see: elemental resitances) but also can be a problem if a race has passives that don’t synergize.

I myself have been probably been guilty of leaning on this sort of comparison a bit too much, (especially in some recent discussions regarding argonians). Its still useful, but not the whole picture.

Oh and I've probably made an omission or arithmetical error somewhere in all that, if you notice one let me know and I will update.

Awesome job compiling all this, I've wanted to do this for a while but never took the time to. One thing: bonuses to health in set bonuses, attribute points, glyphs, and food grant exactly 1.1x that of offensive stats (1206=1.1x 1096),and this can be used to find that Tristat glyphs and set bonuses provide exactly 1.5x the bonus to single offensive stats. This should help you in some of your calculations.

Yeah, the slight complexity here that I somewhat averaged out was the tri-stat glyphs and jewellery traits all follow this idea where health is 1.1x the others. But in the races its not like that, and the races have equal health stam and mag. So it doesn't compare exactly. I couldn't think of a good way to account for this slight discrepancy, so ended up just averaging it all out across the stats by using the total.

The other alternative Alternatives I considered but didn't use was to consider the racial tristats bonus the races get as made up of two components, one that follows the tri glyph ratio of 1.1/1/1 and then a second the is just a little bit of extra mag and stam to make up the difference. And then calculate worth from these components individually.

ie: Khajiit: 915/915/915
Consider this as one component that is 915/831.8/831.8 (to follow the tri glyph ratio).
Then another component that is the remaining 83.2 mag and stam.

The first part of 915/831.8/831.8 follows the exact ratio of a tri-glyph so can be directly compare via that to a single set tri stat bonus would be 603/548/548. So this component is worth 1.52
Then look at the second part which is just the extra bit of mag and stam as individual stats. These give 83.2/1096 = 0.076 each
So total would be 1.52+2*0.076 = 1.67 (which is slightly more than I get using the simple total method)

In the end I didn't do this method as the difference is small, thought it would add too much complexity and confusion and I couldn't be bothered and instead just used the simple method of totals with should be accurate to with ~5%

manny254 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion this patch about racial balance following the changes to some races. Among this there has often been comparisons made of various race’s individual passives worth using the general set bonus values. However, these have often been incomplete or comparing a single passive. So I thought I would post this to try to give an overall picture of each races racial set bonus value for the updated passives.

The purpose of this isn’t to show if races are stronger or weaker, as there is definitely still some subjectivity in the set bonus values and their relative worth, but merely provide a complete basis for comparison when discussing or comparing the racial passives using set bonus values, as well as pointing out some of the weaknesses of this approach.

Establishing Equivalent Set Bonus Values – either because they exist as set bonuses, or from conversion from 5 piece bonuses, glyphs, jewelry traits, mundus stones or minor buffs(note, these don’t always line up, so where there was a discrepancy I used them in this order). In the case of resource restore I have applied a factor of 1.7 (assuming an average of +70% regen bonuses, which hopefully is about right given +40% from major buff, and then a couple of either the minor buff, armor passive and/or class passives). This gives the following values

Direct from Sets:
Health: 1206
Mag/Stam: 1096
Tri-Stat (total) : 1699 (*note there is a slight approximation here as tri stats from sets/glyphs are slightly weight towards health, but tri stats from races are even. But the error should be small)
Regen: 129
Damage: 129 of both
Pen: 1487
Armor: 1487
Healing Done: 4%

Using 5 piece set bonuses as reference (5 piece bonuses are worth 2.32 a set bonus)
Cost Reduction: 10/2.32=4.31 (Using Seducer as reference)
Tri Cost Reduction: 6/2.32=2.58 (Using Alteration Mastery as reference)
Snare Reduction: 50/2.32 = 21.55 (Using Ranger’s Gait)
Ult Gen: 6/5 /2.32 = 0.52 ult/s (from werewolf hide 6 ult every 1.5 sec)
Damage Reduction while casting: 15/2.32*0.9 = 5.82 (from Light of Cyrodiil, but apply a factor of 0.9 as this isn't the full effect of that sets five piece)

Using Jewelry glyphs as reference (glyphs are worth 1.31-1.35 a set bonus, using 1.33)
Tri-Regen (total): 129*1.5=193.5 (Prismatic recovery indicate tri regen totals 1.5x single recovery)
Resist Element** : 3520/1.33 = 2646.6

Using Jewellery Traits (jewelry traits are worth 0.8 of a set bonus)
Speed: 7/0.8 = 8.75 (using swift as reference)

Using Mundus (mundus is worth 1.85 of a set bonus)
Crit Damage: 11/1.85 = 5.96 (Using Shadow)

From minor buffs (in the last update ZOS has indicated that minor buffs are worth 2 set lines)


Using the conversion for regen to restore using a factor of 1.7 (assuming +70% regen bonuses are average)
Restore (per 2 sec) : 129*1.7 = 219.3
Tri Restore (total per 2 sec): 193.5*1.7 = 328.95

Note there are still some racial passives that it isn’t easy to establish a set value for as they don’t exist as bonuses from any of the above sources, which includes weapon cost reduction, damage reduction while casting, sprint speed and cost reduction, sneak radius reduction and detection radius increase. Generally in the case of these passives I am calculating the set worth without it or making an estimate of a suggested value.

Additionally, in the case of stamina resources restore , it should be noted that there is a slight use case advantage of this over regen, in that it will still work while blocking (or in the case of magicka restore when using magicka blocking). This potentially gives a slight advantage that is note shown in these numbers to races that have such resource restore (Argonian, High Elf, Redguard).

**Also, I think that this process is overvaluing elemental resistances – the equivalent set worth for an element resist is less than double the armor value, but only applies to 1/8 of the damage types (which seems a bit weak). I am still using this as I have no other basis for comparison, but it should be noted that any race with these (indicated by ** below) probably has a higher set worth value than it would if these resists were worth less.

[EDIT Following some discussion I have added an alternate method of including the elemental resistances, simply by getting calculating it based on what proportion of incoming damage is that damage type. I'll leave it up to you to decide how much incoming damage is of that type.]

On to the races:

Breton: 5.31 *
(*) because Breton’s spell resistance is variable, and there is also no basis for comparison for just spell resistance. It could be argued that spell resistance standard set line is double that of armour, and this is what was used in conjunction with the assumption of 10% uptime of the extra resistance. If its more Breton would have higher worth.

Mag: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Mag Regen: 130/129 = 1.01
Spell Resist: (2310 + 0.1*2310)/(1487*2) = 0.85
Mag Cost Red: 7/4.31 = 1.62
Total: 6.01

Redguard: 5.28 *
(*) I made an estimate here that weapon cost reductions standard set bonus would be double generic cost reduction, based on the assumption that weapon abilities make up half the abilities used. This is obviously a very general assumption, so if a lesser proportion weapon abilities is used, redguard gets proportionally weaker value wise.
This value also includes snare reduction, which really could have been ignored given some of the other non-conbat “flavor” passives that were ignored for other races. If so, Redguard is even worse set value than the number above.

Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam Restore: (1005/5*2)/219.3 = 1.83
Weapon Cost Red: 8/(4.31*2) = 0.93
Snare Reduction: 15/21.55 = 0.70
Total: 5.28

Orc: 8.97 * (4.12 without the heal passive) [edit: there has been some discussion on finding an good basis for comparison for the orc heal. Using the standard set regen bonus of 129 and scaling for recovery buffs (like is done for every other restore value) results in the 8.97. If the beekeeper 5 piece is used instead, this becomes 5.73, but it should be noted that this is a deviation from the standard set bonuses]
(*) Personally I think the heal is being way over valued here and is artificially inflating this value, as it makes up over half the value for the race. The heal is significantly higher than say, High Elf or Redguard restore, but the heal is probably less useful. Unfortunately I had no basis to factor this in, so just take the above value with a grain of salt.
Also I made an estimate that sprint speed and cost reduction is worth about 1/3 of general speed.

Health: 1000/1206 = 0.83
Stam: 1000/1096 = 0.91
Heal: (2125*2)/219.3 = 4.85 !! This looks overvalued, it doesn’t seem like it should be worth this much.
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Sprint Speed and Cost Reduction: 10/(8.75) *1/3 = 0.38
Total: 8.97

Nord: 6.66 ** ([edit] or 4.91 + 3.11*x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming frost damage. 5.3 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Health: 1000/1206 = 0.83
Stam: 1500/1096 = 1.37
Ult: 0.5/0.52 = 0.97
Armor: 2600/1487 = 1.75
Frost Resist: 4620/2646.6 = 1.75
Frost Resist Alternative: 4620/1487 * x = 3.11 x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming frost damage
Total: 6.66 (or 4.91 + 3.11*x)

Argonian: 6.27 ** ([edit] or 4.53 + 1.55*x + 1.55*y, where x and y are the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison and disease damage, respectively. 4.9 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Tri Stat (total): 3000/1699 = 1.77
Tri Restore (total ever 2 sec): = (3*3125/45*2)/328.95 = 1.27
Poison Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Poison Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * x = 1.55x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison damage
Disease Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Disease Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * y = 1.55y, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming disease damage
Healing: 6/4 = 1.5
Total: 6.27 (or 4.53 + 1.55*x + 1.55*y)

Dark Elf: 7.23 ** ([edit] or 5.49 + 3.11*x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming fire damage. 5.87 if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)

Stam: 1910/1096 = 1.74
Mag: 1910/1096 = 1.74
Fire Resist: 4620/2646.6 = 1.74
Fire Resist Alternative: 4620/1487 * x = 3.11 x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming fire damage
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Total: 7.23 (or 5.49 + 3.11*x)

Khajiit: 5.02 * (+1?)
(*) because I have omitted the sneak radius reduction as I don’t have a proper basis for comparison. I guess I could look at sets like Darloc Brae that give a 2m reduction plus a cost reduction, which would indicate that Khajiit’s 3m reduction might be worth about 1?

Tri-Stat (total): 2745/1699 = 1.62
Tri- Regen (total): 270/193.5 = 1.40
Crit Damage and Healing: 12/5.96 = 2.01
Sneak radius reduction: 1?
Total: 5.02 (+1?)

Wood Elf: 6.78 * (+1?) ** ([edit] or 5.04 (+1?) + 1.55*x + 1.55*y, where x and y are the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison and disease damage, respectively. 5.42 (+1?) if incoming damage is an even distribution between the types)
(*) Same issue as Khajiit but this time with detection. Again, could estimate it about 1?

Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam Regen: 258/129 = 2
Pen: 950/1487 = 0.64
Speed: 5/8.74 = 0.57
Poison Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Poison Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * x = 1.55x, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming poison damage
Disease Resist: 2310/2646.6 = 0.87
Disease Resist Alternative: 2310/1487 * y = 1.55y, where x is the proportion (max 1) of incoming disease damage
Detection radius increase: 1?
Total: 6.78 (+1?) (or 5.04 (+1?) + 1.55*x + 1.55*y

High Elf: 5.82
(*) Have omitted damage reduction while casting, given no basis for comparison. Would add just a little, 0.5?

Mag: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Stam or Mag Restore: (625/5*2)/219.3 = 1.13
Damage: 258/129 = 2
Damage Reduction while casting: 5/5.82 = 0.86
Total: 4.96 (+0.5?)

Imperial 5.80

Health: 2000/1206 = 1.66
Stam: 2000/1096 = 1.82
Tri Cost Reduction: 6/2.58 = 2.32
Total: 5.80

Possibly the biggest takeaway from all this is that at best, looking at the set bonus equivalence for the races is only part of the story, as it shows that some of the races we consider BiS actually have really low set bonus equivalent worth (ie: High Elf), and some of the races we consider weaker actually have quite high worth (ie: argonian). This is in part due to some bonuses in the set bonus equivalence being over-valued (see: elemental resitances) but also can be a problem if a race has passives that don’t synergize.

I myself have been probably been guilty of leaning on this sort of comparison a bit too much, (especially in some recent discussions regarding argonians). Its still useful, but not the whole picture.

Oh and I've probably made an omission or arithmetical error somewhere in all that, if you notice one let me know and I will update.

Awesome job compiling all this, I've wanted to do this for a while but never took the time to. One thing: bonuses to health in set bonuses, attribute points, glyphs, and food grant exactly 1.1x that of offensive stats (1206=1.1x 1096),and this can be used to find that Tristat glyphs and set bonuses provide exactly 1.5x the bonus to single offensive stats. This should help you in some of your calculations.

Yeah, the slight complexity here that I somewhat averaged out was the tri-stat glyphs and jewellery traits all follow this idea where health is 1.1x the others. But in the races its not like that, and the races have equal health stam and mag. So it doesn't compare exactly. I couldn't think of a good way to account for this slight discrepancy, so ended up just averaging it all out across the stats by using the total.

The other alternative Alternatives I considered but didn't use was to consider the racial tristats bonus the races get as made up of two components, one that follows the tri glyph ratio of 1.1/1/1 and then a second the is just a little bit of extra mag and stam to make up the difference. And then calculate worth from these components individually.

ie: Khajiit: 915/915/915
Consider this as one component that is 915/831.8/831.8 (to follow the tri glyph ratio).
Then another component that is the remaining 83.2 mag and stam.

The first part of 915/831.8/831.8 follows the exact ratio of a tri-glyph so can be directly compare via that to a single set tri stat bonus would be 603/548/548. So this component is worth 1.52
Then look at the second part which is just the extra bit of mag and stam as individual stats. These give 83.2/1096 = 0.076 each
So total would be 1.52+2*0.076 = 1.67 (which is slightly more than I get using the simple total method)

In the end I didn't do this method as the difference is small, thought it would add too much complexity and confusion and I couldn't be bothered and instead just used the simple method of totals with should be accurate to with ~5%

Tbh I don't think it's on you, I think ZOS was just lazy/forgetful in the racial passives, and didn't account for health being 1.1x the value of offensive stats in all other parts of the game when designing these racial skills. It's just another flaw in their system.

That is not a fair thing to say at all. The previous racial passives did account for that, and it seems to have been a deliberate choice on their end. For example, Imperial previously have 10% max stam and 12% max health.