Why give some races the ultimate hybrid treatment and leave other races in the mud

JohnOfMarkarth · January 2021

So now...

We will have stamina Atlmer... and Magicka Orcs.

What? Makes a lot of sense right?

And Nords and Redguards... Two of the three warrior races? Pah. These two will still be worse stam dps than an Altmer?

Seriously? A nord has been, in honestly *pinkbuniess* level of intelligence, relegated to ... tanking. With the ultigen, albeit unique, not saving its graces as a good DD whatsoever. Since it relies on taking damage that a DD is trying to... you know... avoid.
And now instead of giving them some... offensive semblance, alongside the well deserved removal of frost immunity and, honestly kinda earned (cus of pvp... again. eh) lowering of armor... they get nada?

All races can tank really. Theres not as much of this "min max" ing involved in tanking as is in DDing (its there but it involves less stats to focus on). But Nords cant DD. Not usefully compared to other races.

A magic focused elegance race... can now out-brute a brute race. And another different brute race can now... out-magic a magic race, mainly in pvp probably. Where having sprinting speed and some extra stamina makes orc... a "brb am changing my magic chars to orcs. Actually all my chars to orcs."
While some other races are stuck in a sandbox thinking "Am just here... playing in the sand now. Cus I now cant even lift my axe to fight anymore. And if i try... the rest of em will throw me under the bus"

And imperials? "Hey. Hey therey. I can cast spells and skills... effortlessly without spending any considerable stamina or magicka. I am... by all acounts. A god."

Anyron · January 2021

Argonians like mud.. We have been there in terms of racials almost whole existence of this game..

Kurat · January 2021

Anyron wrote: »

Argonians like mud.. We have been there in terms of racials almost whole existence of this game..

I agree. And they nerfed us again. 1k resources gone from drinking potions. And nothing useful was added to compensate, just 1k stam. Hows that gonna help me if im mag dps.

JohnOfMarkarth · January 2021

Anyron wrote: »

Argonians like mud.. We have been there in terms of racials almost whole existence of this game..

Bruh moment

Integral1900 · January 2021

Both of my hybrid builds are Nords and there’s no way in heck I’m buying a race change token. I like the race, the way it sounds, the way it looks. Let’s face it, a Nord is the only female character race in the game other than orc that looks like they can do with something with a sword other than drag it round behind them!

Yes I suck in terms of damage output but as a Tank it was never a problem. I could accept that my DPS Nords were stuck on normal content for the most part because no group in their right mind would let one into a veteran dungeon in that role

I’ve been moving away from the meta for a long time and quite frankly this patch is going to kill my interest in doing veteran content stone dead. With the extra magic damage in heavy armour I just can’t be bothered.

Guess my Nord veteran trials tank will be dismantled and join the ranks of my fluffy builds, i’m so sick of this constant rollercoaster of changes!

Sylas_Orin · January 2021

See, this is why I am for the idea of removing racial passives altogether, and instead having a specializations system.

Sure, there should be some racial differences. Dunmer should be resistant to fire. Argonians should swim faster. [Snip]

If you had a specialization system, on the other hand, you could play any of the races with relatively minor differences. You could take the passives of the Altmer on live in their current condition, give them some regen passives and call that a "Wizard" spec. Take the Orcish passives on live, give them some regen buffs and call that a "Warrior" spec. Take the Dunmer passives on live and call that a "Hybrid" spec.

Then make other variants for tanking, healing, etc etc

Not too hard, imo.

[Edited for inappropriate content]

JohnOfMarkarth · January 2021

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

See, this is why I am for the idea of removing racial passives altogether, and instead having a specializations system.

Sure, there should be some racial differences. Dunmer should be resistant to fire. Argonians should swim faster. [Snip].

If you had a specialization system, on the other hand, you could play any of the races with relatively minor differences. You could take the passives of the Altmer on live in their current condition, give them some regen passives and call that a "Wizard" spec. Take the Orcish passives on live, give them some regen buffs and call that a "Warrior" spec. Take the Dunmer passives on live and call that a "Hybrid" spec.

Then make other variants for tanking, healing, etc etc

Not too hard, imo.
[Edited for inappropriate content]

Fully agreed.

thedoodle_90 · January 2021

I think Racial skills would fit with the new CP system.

Instead of a passive on the skill tree just give them points in the CP system for free. So its nice, but eventually doesn't really matter.

For instance: High Elf can start with tier 2 Magicka already unlocked and tier 1 of the AOE oblivion damage skill unlocked.

make a stealth radius star and bonus picketpocket/force lock star for khajiit and woodelf and argonian

Give each race like idk 150 CP worth of stars for free in each constellation just different skills.

If you do it this way the higher CP you are the less your race choice matters until its basically cosmetic.

Stahlor · January 2021

Nobody will run an Orc magicka or an Altmer stamina. Darkelf will be still the hybrid race.

Nord will loose 2% mitigation (~4% down from 6%) but is still strong with the ulti regen.
Imperial buff was necessary.

JohnOfMarkarth · January 2021

Stahlor wrote: »

Nobody will run an Orc magicka or an Altmer stamina. Darkelf will be still the hybrid race

I dont think you have stepped outside the utmost top of the cake teams for some time if you think so.

Stahlor · January 2021

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

I dont think you have stepped outside the utmost top of the cake teams for some time if you think so.

As far as we are not talking about end-game, it doesn't matter what race you are playing anyway.

JohnOfMarkarth · January 2021

Mr @BlissfulDelusions has a good idea there.

StarOfElyon · January 2021

People really should see how the new CP helps them build their characters before they assume that ZOS is ruining their characters. The new CP really does look more helpful to creating a character that specializes in things rather than simply getting stronger.

Stahlor wrote: »

Nobody will run an Orc magicka or an Altmer stamina. Darkelf will be still the hybrid race.

Nord will loose 2% mitigation (~4% down from 6%) but is still strong with the ulti regen.
Imperial buff was necessary.

I've been playing a hybrid Altmer for a while now. Yeah, she's zipping around and smacking people with d-swing. If I made an Orc, I would definitely make a healer (already thinking about it). I want to see what the next class will be first.

AyaDark · January 2021

The even bigger problem is: Ok you swap to other race now and:
It will change next update.

First of all no one is save from this.

I do not want change race each update.

Can race passives become permament already? On 5+ years this game exist i think it will be good start !

The other thing is that skills are not balanced.

Some races easely outperform other races.

Even by set calculation boneses it is smaller than other race bonuses + to this the combination of bonuses are bad and useless.

Ks there any concept that game follows to discuss it ?

It is really bad, not logickal and not balanced changes in first place !

katorga · January 2021

AyaDark wrote: »

The even bigger problem is: Ok you swap to other race now and:
It will change next update.

My rule of thumb is that there are no upper limits to how high you want raise to max resource and max damage and they are immune to meta shift. Every race other than Dunmer, Altmer, Orc puts you at risk, and those three just got even more flexible in terms of accommodating swapping between mag and stam.

Every other race has passives that are niche, useless, situational, suffer diminishing returns, or reach some form of cap.

AyaDark · January 2021

It is like sorcs, nbs and others just for count.

The same for races now as well.

I even can not understand is there any concept other classes have ?

Sorc - mobyle fast mage.
NB - invisible assasin.

DK - something attack fire.
Templar - something attack light.
Warden - something ... with bear !?
Necr after update - ... something with skeletons but not as bad.

Lumenn · January 2021

I can definitely see orc ranking up there with solo races now. Health, stamina, max dmg both, free heal. Pump them with magicka. I'm tempted and I personally think orcs are hideous(i can never make one w/o picturing them drooling everywhere )

Marginis · January 2021

I don't mind seeing more orc shamans and altmer elite soldiers. Those are just two archetypes really hard to make good for endgame without hybridization of the racial passives, that are still really cool to see.

I say I'd love to see all races get the options of doing what they want in terms of magicka or stamina, so that players don't need to rely on making characters that fit stereotypes to fully realize their character's potential.

UntouchableHunter · January 2021

I like to see hybrid build working but ZOS must bring back the Nord

Wolfpaw · January 2021

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

So now...

We will have stamina Atlmer... and Magicka Orcs.

What? Makes a lot of sense right?

And Nords and Redguards... Two of the three warrior races? Pah. These two will still be worse stam dps than an Altmer?

Seriously? A nord has been, in honestly *pinkbuniess* level of intelligence, relegated to ... tanking. With the ultigen, albeit unique, not saving its graces as a good DD whatsoever. Since it relies on taking damage that a DD is trying to... you know... avoid.
And now instead of giving them some... offensive semblance, alongside the well deserved removal of frost immunity and, honestly kinda earned (cus of pvp... again. eh) lowering of armor... they get nada?

All races can tank really. Theres not as much of this "min max" ing involved in tanking as is in DDing (its there but it involves less stats to focus on). But Nords cant DD. Not usefully compared to other races.

A magic focused elegance race... can now out-brute a brute race. And another different brute race can now... out-magic a magic race, mainly in pvp probably. Where having sprinting speed and some extra stamina makes orc... a "brb am changing my magic chars to orcs. Actually all my chars to orcs."
While some other races are stuck in a sandbox thinking "Am just here... playing in the sand now. Cus I now cant even lift my axe to fight anymore. And if i try... the rest of em will throw me under the bus"

And imperials? "Hey. Hey therey. I can cast spells and skills... effortlessly without spending any considerable stamina or magicka. I am... by all acounts. A god."

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Imo make all combat related racials the same, & non combat related racials unique. Take combat balance out of the equation.

example

1000 Health, Stamina, Magicka
125 Health, Stamina, Magicka Recovery
250 Weapon & Spell Damage

Unique non-combat racials here

Lumenn · January 2021

Marginis wrote: »

I say I'd love to see all races get the options of doing what they want in terms of magicka or stamina, so that players don't need to rely on making characters that fit stereotypes to fully realize their character's potential.

Considering 7 of my 10 characters are argonian I'd agree 100%

JohnOfMarkarth · January 2021

Marginis wrote: »

I don't mind seeing more orc shamans and altmer elite soldiers. Those are just two archetypes really hard to make good for endgame without hybridization of the racial passives, that are still really cool to see.

I say I'd love to see all races get the options of doing what they want in terms of magicka or stamina, so that players don't need to rely on making characters that fit stereotypes to fully realize their character's potential.

yea... and i wish i could make a nord elite warrior...

How very ironic.