CP Enabled Group Deathmatch Battlegrounds

sabresandiego_ESO · January 2021

Deathmatch players often completely ignore objectives every game because they are forced into game modes they don't want to play. It's understandable that there should only be two ques in order to not split the player base. I have a solution that makes most players happy:

Leave nocp solo random Bg's as is for the general population so they can do their dailies and play some fun objectives without running into premades

AND

Give the deathmatch players a place to form groups, use the new cp system, and actually play team deathmatch (by far the most popular game type). Also, why go through all the work to create a new CP system if its going to be disabled for one of the main forms of PVP in the game? Leave nocp random solo for casual players and allow the group que to be CP enabled deathmatch. This would keep the BG ques as only two choices and satisfy most of the player base.

AyeshaBelladonna · January 2021

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice if exclusive battleground players got to enjoy the new CP system

100% Agree. I played BG's before the grouping changes during the relatively short time CP was enabled. I stopped playing BG's when they took it away because I don't want to waste a character slot to build one strictly around no-CP content. I would love to actually get to enjoy all the new BG's they added. especially now that the quest allows for solos and premades to mostly avoid each other lol.

I would think, the way the new system will be, that it would be a great addition. OR give us cp and no cp like cyrodiil.

Grimlok_S · January 2021

I remember CP enabled battle grounds.

It's not uncommon to see less than 10 kills shared across entire teams when 3 optimized groups are going at it.

It is way easier to stalemate in CP. I don't think we want CP back in BGs.

Olupajmibanan · January 2021

Grimlok_S wrote: »

I remember CP enabled battle grounds.

It's not uncommon to see less than 10 kills shared across entire teams when 3 optimized groups are going at it.

It is way easier to stalemate in CP. I don't think we want CP back in BGs.

100% agree with this. I remember it as well, it was full of blocktards Guarding each other and flag flipping or chaos ball flipping didn't happen at all. BGs were absolute block fest with 0 kills. Never again!

OlumoGarbag · January 2021

also cp and non-cp will be as close together as ever. So you basically dont have to make another build for bgs.

Grimlok_S · January 2021

Per the stat bonuses and % mitigation removed from CP and deposited directly onto character I expect we are going to see folks in non-CP become a lot tankier by default.

Stalemates may be back in season!

AyeshaBelladonna · January 2021

the reason they stalemated before had a lot to do with pre-mades. cp will not be a 30% power gap anymore universally and if cp and non cp will be 'so close' why not just give us both then? shouldn't be a problem.

propertyOfUndefined · January 2021

I think this might make sense with the new "slottable" stars. I feel like it might close the gap a bit between the low CP players and the higher ones.

OlumoGarbag · January 2021

AyeshaBelladonna wrote: »

the reason they stalemated before had a lot to do with pre-mades. cp will not be a 30% power gap anymore universally and if cp and non cp will be 'so close' why not just give us both then? shouldn't be a problem.

bc we already have 2 ques and we are not allowed to choose the gamemode anymore if you would make that cp and non-cp they would have to remove solo or group que again.

sabresandiego_ESO · January 2021

With this new balanced cp system, they should just remove nocp from the game completely.

Elo106 · January 2021

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

With this new balanced cp system, they should just remove nocp from the game completely.

THIS +1
Getting rid of one more build on a character would be good imo, Pve Build, CP PvP, No CP PvP

Solariken · January 2021

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

With this new balanced cp system, they should just remove nocp from the game completely.

Agreed, it seems like they can finally consolidate into one PvP experience across the board

Canned_Apples · January 2021

This game doesn’t require you to do anything other than swap your gear for 10 proc sets when entering no cp. you don’t even have to gold them. It’s literally only one click with an add on.

sabresandiego_ESO · January 2021

BGs are unfortunately still NOCP! Why create this new system then disable it for a premier form of PVP?

Skoomah · January 2021

In no cp, premade vs premade already get 2-4 kills total per game. Cp enabled would bring it down to 1 kill total per game

sabresandiego_ESO · January 2021

Skoomah wrote: »

In no cp, premade vs premade already get 9-4 kills total per game. Cp enabled would bring it down to 1 kill total per game

That definitely should not be the case. They should rebalance battle spirit and pvp around the new cp system so that people actually die even with tanks/healers present and games arent such low scoring bore fests that go to max time.

techyeshic · January 2021

I mean I thought the entire point was to make CP more about choices rather than have everything causing the stalemates.

No CP does have it's place though; for newer players to not be at a disadvantage

sabresandiego_ESO · January 2021

Please remove nocp from the game after balancing cp correctly for pvp. Low cp players are already sorted correctly on teams by the mmr system.

Urvoth · January 2021

Skoomah wrote: »

In no cp, premade vs premade already get 2-4 kills total per game. Cp enabled would bring it down to 1 kill total per game

Ehhhh I think that’s the extreme example. Most premade vs premade games are like 10-20 kills for the winning team.

sabresandiego_ESO · January 2021

Urvoth wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

In no cp, premade vs premade already get 2-4 kills total per game. Cp enabled would bring it down to 1 kill total per game

Ehhhh I think that’s the extreme example. Most premade vs premade games are like 10-20 kills for the winning team.

Thats only 150-300 points per deathmatch. That means time runs out. Its too slow paced, and not fun. We need high kill games back. These slow paced tank/heal games just aren't fun.

katorga · January 2021

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

With this new balanced cp system, they should just remove nocp from the game completely.

This new "balanced" system.

Urvoth · January 2021

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

In no cp, premade vs premade already get 2-4 kills total per game. Cp enabled would bring it down to 1 kill total per game

Ehhhh I think that’s the extreme example. Most premade vs premade games are like 10-20 kills for the winning team.

Thats only 150-300 points per deathmatch. That means time runs out. Its too slow paced, and not fun. We need high kill games back. These slow paced tank/heal games just aren't fun.

It’s inevitable that premade games will be slower and have less deaths, though. Similarly skilled teams will always play somewhat cautiously in a 3-team BG, and properly structured teams will be setup to die as little as possible while still maximizing kill potential.

It really doesn’t even matter what the meta is, premade vs premade games will always have less kills than pug games.

wheem_ESO · January 2021

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

In no cp, premade vs premade already get 2-4 kills total per game. Cp enabled would bring it down to 1 kill total per game

Ehhhh I think that’s the extreme example. Most premade vs premade games are like 10-20 kills for the winning team.

Thats only 150-300 points per deathmatch. That means time runs out. Its too slow paced, and not fun. We need high kill games back. These slow paced tank/heal games just aren't fun.

If that's going to be the case, some classes (read: everything that's Magicka and not a Sorcerer) will need substantially improved mobility and damage avoidance options. Some builds basically have to be able to tank/heal some damage in order to be viable against decent opposition.

CP-Enabled PvP is also inherently unbalanced and biased in favor of people that have simply invested more time into the game. I know I'm not the only person that has seen someone with <= 400 CP that was actually a pretty solid player, and I don't like the idea of them potentially having significant handicaps in PvP, simply because they didn't do enough horrendously boring PvE grinding before daring to play PvP.

One thing that I've suggested in the past was for there to be a "template" for CP, where everyone who enters a PvP area or duel is treated as though they have max-CP, which is allocated to a template that they design and is only active while PvP'ing. Other games have had somewhat similar mechanics, and I think it's extremely important for PvP to be as balanced as possible. It will never be perfect, of course, but essentially saying, "Sorry, you haven't done enough unenjoyable grinding in order to be competitive in the one part of the game that you actually like" is, IMO, unacceptable.

Somewhere · January 2021

Sabre, I think it's probably best for ZOS to take a "wait and see" approach on this one. I haven't tested it myself but it seems from the patch notes that a lot of stats given to us from the current CP system were simply baked into our characters now. Before we jump into completely removing no-CP I think it's worth seeing how having these additional stats plays out first. It might be worth leaving it as it is, after all, looking through the constellations it does look like you can still gain stats from the CP system, even if it's less extreme than before.

Everyone just gained what, about 7200 health, 5000 resources, 15% damage mitigation, and 1000 spell/weapon damage?

Ragnaroek93 · January 2021

No, BGs is the only (more or less) somehow competitive pvp environment in the game and therefore people should be equal and it should be skill based. It shouldn't reward people who grind skyreach 24/7.

Skoomah · January 2021

The only reason why we might get low kill games now is the healing factor.

People die left and right all the time on the live servers right now if a team doesn’t have a healer. The moment you introduce a healer on any team... the games become a grind fest and it’s super hard to get a kill.

It can either be from full blown healers or even people who bring off heals like echoing vigor or wardens ice tree heal.

If we lower healing power in general, then kills would go way up.

All sources of healing should go down. Self heals, group heals, potions, poisons. Just adjust it in battle spirit. Reduce all healing by 75% in PVP.

Emma_Overload · January 2021

Just let us have both No-CP and CP versions of BGs, like I've been asking for YEARS.

Let the players make the choice for ourselves. Personally, I don't see the point of "fixing" the CP system, if they're not going to let us use it!

sabresandiego_ESO · January 2021

Skoomah wrote: »

The only reason why we might get low kill games now is the healing factor.

People die left and right all the time on the live servers right now if a team doesn’t have a healer. The moment you introduce a healer on any team... the games become a grind fest and it’s super hard to get a kill.

It can either be from full blown healers or even people who bring off heals like echoing vigor or wardens ice tree heal.

If we lower healing power in general, then kills would go way up.

All sources of healing should go down. Self heals, group heals, potions, poisons. Just adjust it in battle spirit. Reduce all healing by 75% in PVP.

They had it right when battle spirit reduced heals by 60%. Dots were strong, people died. Then they buffed healing by 12.5% by reducing the battle spirit debuff from 60% to 55% (taking heals from 40% power to 45% power is 12.5% increase for those bad at math) = and thats why we have the really slow heal/tank meta we have in bgs now.

sabresandiego_ESO · February 2021

Bring back deathmatch and enable CP for it

Pepegrillos · February 2021

I think adding a cp-bg environment for those who like that kind of playstyle would be alright.

But removing no-cp pvp bgs or no-cp pvp entirely would be a terrible idea. It would work directly against one of the main aims of any mmo, which is to lure more players in. Who would join when they realize there is a softcap that takes months to reach before things even out slightly in pvp?

Considering how small the pvp population is in this game already (particularly the bg population), I think it would be crazy to do so.

sabresandiego_ESO · February 2021

Pepegrillos wrote: »

I think adding a cp-bg environment for those who like that kind of playstyle would be alright.

But removing no-cp pvp bgs or no-cp pvp entirely would be a terrible idea. It would work directly against one of the main aims of any mmo, which is to lure more players in. Who would join when they realize there is a softcap that takes months to reach before things even out slightly in pvp?

Considering how small the pvp population is in this game already (particularly the bg population), I think it would be crazy to do so.

That’s why they should leave only two options for bgs:

Nocp solo random
Cp group death match