Dear Traders, you don't get your listing fee back.
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Onigar✭✭✭Easily_Lost wrote: »Item does NOT sell: You DO NOT get the Listing Fee refunded.
Item does sell: Your Listing Fee is refunded.
This is the clearest and most correct statement here.
Also. When an item of mine sells in a store I always get my listing fee back.0 -
You really don't. You need to pay more attention to when you're listing an item. As has already been mentioned numerous times here, the listing fee is taken from your characters pocket at the time of you listing the item. For that to be refunded you'd have to receive 94% of the listing price of the item when it sells. You don't. You receive 93%.Edited by jammymacsterb16_ESO on January 26, 2021 1:43PM7 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Easily_Lost wrote: »Item does NOT sell: You DO NOT get the Listing Fee refunded.
Item does sell: Your Listing Fee is refunded.
This is the clearest and most correct statement here.
Also. When an item of mine sells in a store I always get my listing fee back.
This is simply incorrect as many posters have explained.
The only way in which you get your listing fee "back" is when you either double count it, or ignore the upfront payment altogether.
In the end, I upfront pay 1% of an items list price, I will get back 93% if it sells, for a net income of 92%of list price. If it doesn't sell, I am out the upfront only. In neither case does it really make sense to say that I get the 1% back.5 -
belial5221_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The list fee is completely separate from the sale price.You pay total upfront 1000 +10 = 1010.You make sale it removes 7% you get 930 from listed price of 1000,and no 10 back from upfront list fee.1
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robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »Actually this is very concerning, as I also assumed from everything I have read that my fee was returned. On high value low profit items like potions, this could mean losing tons of gold when you thought you were making a profit.
If you've been increasing your net worth via selling the potions, every time you sell them, then no. A simple test would simply be to subtract 8% from your list price, A, and compare the result to what you spent making the potions, B. If A is greater than B, then you're still turning a profit.
I will need to adjust the spreadsheet I use for this to take into account the additional 1% loss. But generally, I do not post items in markets myself when the profit margin has become that slim. That said, a lot of people seem to post final products for considerably less profit than simply selling the mats would have made, and sold a lot quicker to boot.
For me, it would be all profit. I gather my own mats, so there's no overhead.
@robertthebard
That's untrue because you still have an opportunity cost. In this case, the opportunity cost is the coin you would have earned if you had sold the materials directly. If the amount you make from selling potions is lower than the opportunity cost, you're operating at a loss because your materials were more valuable than your potion.
So for example less say you were trying to sell the fictional Potion of Proving.
And the potion of proving requires the following materials, and let's also give them prices you can make at the guild trader.
1 flower of courage = 100 coins
1 bag of salt = 100 coins
Total amount you can make selling the materials directly= 200 coins
You'd need to sell your Potion of Proving at a minimum of 201 coins to make a profit. 200 coins is even, and anything less is at a loss.
If one isn't going to sell the mats anyway, there's no lost money. So for me, no lost money if I were to sell potions. The mats for your example potion don't just spawn into the Trader, so, they come from somewhere. If I'm going to worry about this potion, I would get the mats from the source. I have purchased materials at the Trader one time, in 4 years, just last night, because I needed some mats to finish a daily, and didn't feel like grinding them out. Other than that, I haven't purchased them at all. So not, it's not "untrue". In my case, I gather my own mats, I have no intention, and currently no means, since I'm not in any guild, let alone a trade guild, to sell them unless I sell to a vendor, not going to happen, and so, no lost opportunity.
If you're selling a potion, you can sell the mats. If you weren't selling anything you'd have a point. But you are selling them, you're just turning them into a potion first. Which means you should factor in the price of ingredients.
Even if you're just vendoring them it's worth checking the price to vendor the mats vs the potions.
I addressed this in the post you quoted here, I'm not going to be selling them to a vendor either. Exception: When my alchemist does her daily, and I make multiples of something I'm not going to use, but the turn in is only one potion. Since I can't make just one potion in that scenario, the rest are either clutter, or vendor fodder.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »Actually this is very concerning, as I also assumed from everything I have read that my fee was returned. On high value low profit items like potions, this could mean losing tons of gold when you thought you were making a profit.
If you've been increasing your net worth via selling the potions, every time you sell them, then no. A simple test would simply be to subtract 8% from your list price, A, and compare the result to what you spent making the potions, B. If A is greater than B, then you're still turning a profit.
I will need to adjust the spreadsheet I use for this to take into account the additional 1% loss. But generally, I do not post items in markets myself when the profit margin has become that slim. That said, a lot of people seem to post final products for considerably less profit than simply selling the mats would have made, and sold a lot quicker to boot.
For me, it would be all profit. I gather my own mats, so there's no overhead.
@robertthebard
That's untrue because you still have an opportunity cost. In this case, the opportunity cost is the coin you would have earned if you had sold the materials directly. If the amount you make from selling potions is lower than the opportunity cost, you're operating at a loss because your materials were more valuable than your potion.
So for example less say you were trying to sell the fictional Potion of Proving.
And the potion of proving requires the following materials, and let's also give them prices you can make at the guild trader.
1 flower of courage = 100 coins
1 bag of salt = 100 coins
Total amount you can make selling the materials directly= 200 coins
You'd need to sell your Potion of Proving at a minimum of 201 coins to make a profit. 200 coins is even, and anything less is at a loss.
If one isn't going to sell the mats anyway, there's no lost money. So for me, no lost money if I were to sell potions. The mats for your example potion don't just spawn into the Trader, so, they come from somewhere. If I'm going to worry about this potion, I would get the mats from the source. I have purchased materials at the Trader one time, in 4 years, just last night, because I needed some mats to finish a daily, and didn't feel like grinding them out. Other than that, I haven't purchased them at all. So not, it's not "untrue". In my case, I gather my own mats, I have no intention, and currently no means, since I'm not in any guild, let alone a trade guild, to sell them unless I sell to a vendor, not going to happen, and so, no lost opportunity.
If you're selling a potion, you can sell the mats. If you weren't selling anything you'd have a point. But you are selling them, you're just turning them into a potion first. Which means you should factor in the price of ingredients.
Even if you're just vendoring them it's worth checking the price to vendor the mats vs the potions.
I addressed this in the post you quoted here, I'm not going to be selling them to a vendor either. Exception: When my alchemist does her daily, and I make multiples of something I'm not going to use, but the turn in is only one potion. Since I can't make just one potion in that scenario, the rest are either clutter, or vendor fodder.
You are selling them whether your choose to acknowledge your opportunity cost or not. By turning them into a potion and selling that potion, no matter the method you choose to sell the potion, you have sold your mats. They are not in your inventory anymore. They have been turned into a potion and sold. They are gone. There is an opportunity cost to that. Just, factually.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 27, 2021 2:01AM0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »robertthebard wrote: »Actually this is very concerning, as I also assumed from everything I have read that my fee was returned. On high value low profit items like potions, this could mean losing tons of gold when you thought you were making a profit.
If you've been increasing your net worth via selling the potions, every time you sell them, then no. A simple test would simply be to subtract 8% from your list price, A, and compare the result to what you spent making the potions, B. If A is greater than B, then you're still turning a profit.
I will need to adjust the spreadsheet I use for this to take into account the additional 1% loss. But generally, I do not post items in markets myself when the profit margin has become that slim. That said, a lot of people seem to post final products for considerably less profit than simply selling the mats would have made, and sold a lot quicker to boot.
For me, it would be all profit. I gather my own mats, so there's no overhead.
@robertthebard
That's untrue because you still have an opportunity cost. In this case, the opportunity cost is the coin you would have earned if you had sold the materials directly. If the amount you make from selling potions is lower than the opportunity cost, you're operating at a loss because your materials were more valuable than your potion.
So for example less say you were trying to sell the fictional Potion of Proving.
And the potion of proving requires the following materials, and let's also give them prices you can make at the guild trader.
1 flower of courage = 100 coins
1 bag of salt = 100 coins
Total amount you can make selling the materials directly= 200 coins
You'd need to sell your Potion of Proving at a minimum of 201 coins to make a profit. 200 coins is even, and anything less is at a loss.
If one isn't going to sell the mats anyway, there's no lost money. So for me, no lost money if I were to sell potions. The mats for your example potion don't just spawn into the Trader, so, they come from somewhere. If I'm going to worry about this potion, I would get the mats from the source. I have purchased materials at the Trader one time, in 4 years, just last night, because I needed some mats to finish a daily, and didn't feel like grinding them out. Other than that, I haven't purchased them at all. So not, it's not "untrue". In my case, I gather my own mats, I have no intention, and currently no means, since I'm not in any guild, let alone a trade guild, to sell them unless I sell to a vendor, not going to happen, and so, no lost opportunity.
If you're selling a potion, you can sell the mats. If you weren't selling anything you'd have a point. But you are selling them, you're just turning them into a potion first. Which means you should factor in the price of ingredients.
Even if you're just vendoring them it's worth checking the price to vendor the mats vs the potions.
I addressed this in the post you quoted here, I'm not going to be selling them to a vendor either. Exception: When my alchemist does her daily, and I make multiples of something I'm not going to use, but the turn in is only one potion. Since I can't make just one potion in that scenario, the rest are either clutter, or vendor fodder.
You are selling them whether your choose to acknowledge your opportunity cost or not. By turning them into a potion and selling that potion, no matter the method you choose to sell the potion, you have sold your mats. They are not in your inventory anymore. They have been turned into a potion and sold. They are gone. There is an opportunity cost to that. Just, factually.
No? I did my daily writ, which calls for one potion, but makes 4. So, by your logic, doing your daily writs is lost opportunity. My little stable is Stam based, if the potion of the day is a Magicka potion, my choices are to abandon the writ, or, make the potions, and sell the leftovers, since I'm not going to use them. I then get the rewards for the turn in, which may include Surveys. No losses here.0 -
EirgarthEldjarns✭✭✭You are leaving gold on the table if you make 4 and sell/vendor the 3 you don't need... when doing daily crafting writs, you don't have to make it on the spot... common practice is to store stacks of potions and food (for dailies) and just withdraw when you need...
Also, for dailies, only pre-req is that your account has to craft it, so another common practice is to have your main crafter just pump out stacks of food/potions and have your other chars just withdraw as well... only suggestion, for sanity and vault space, either cap out provisioning and alch or leave them at 1, so the pool of results is minimal.
Not sure which platform you are on, but if you use LazyWrit, it'll withdraw the appropriate item from the bank for you.
Eir2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EirgarthEldjarns wrote: »You are leaving gold on the table if you make 4 and sell/vendor the 3 you don't need... when doing daily crafting writs, you don't have to make it on the spot... common practice is to store stacks of potions and food (for dailies) and just withdraw when you need...
Or just leave them in your inventory. If you're completing writs at multiple tiers to build up your reserves of specific alchemy solutions/bases, or recipes, it's easier to just figure you've got about 15 dead inventory slots on a character.4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EirgarthEldjarns wrote: »Well no, those recipes will sell for 8mil, so that isn't it...
I am talking about more mundane items that folks will list for insane prices, trying to hose certain AddOns listing ranges...
For those who still doubt (I did this just to make sure)... deposit all your gold into the bank, minus 10 gold (to keep with the theme of the OPs post)..
Now post something for 1000 gold
You should have NO gold in your inventory now...
Have someone in your guild buy the item...
Look at the amount of gold in the mail, you will not see that initial 10 gold mailed back to you.
Eir
A lot of the "super mundane item with a super exorbitant price" listings are gold selling.0 -
EirgarthEldjarns✭✭✭Yea, I hinted towards that in another post, just didn't want to say it outloud...EirgarthEldjarns wrote: »Well no, to list something for 1000000 gold, you have to pay 10k up front (non refunded)... so that means they lose the 10k just to be an arse... there is another nefarious reason, but rather not mention here.
Eir0 -
Stanx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Started reading this like "well duh everyone knows that" and have subsequently had my brain blown4 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭EirgarthEldjarns wrote: »You are leaving gold on the table if you make 4 and sell/vendor the 3 you don't need... when doing daily crafting writs, you don't have to make it on the spot... common practice is to store stacks of potions and food (for dailies) and just withdraw when you need...
Also, for dailies, only pre-req is that your account has to craft it, so another common practice is to have your main crafter just pump out stacks of food/potions and have your other chars just withdraw as well... only suggestion, for sanity and vault space, either cap out provisioning and alch or leave them at 1, so the pool of results is minimal.
Not sure which platform you are on, but if you use LazyWrit, it'll withdraw the appropriate item from the bank for you.
Eir
So by this logic, you're still losing money by making all those potions, because, as was stated, you could just sell the mats. You see, saying "just craft a whole bunch of them to store for later" doesn't eliminate the need to produce them in the first place. As you say, "they must be made by your account". It doesn't matter if I produce them in advance, or as needed, I'm still using the mats. Even if I opted to store the leftovers in the bank, I'm still using the mats.0 -
EirgarthEldjarns✭✭✭Um yea, but not as many mats... there was a comment about selling the leftovers... I was just offering some advice on how you can not use as many mats... you are storing for future use, vendoring and the like, it is wasted... *shrugs* Take or leave the advice, it is up to you... but the way I see it, I take 1 corn flower and make 4 potions, storing 3 for future use for the daily...
With that logic, you just used 4 corn flowers for the same purpose. Who is going to make more gold overall? I can turn around and sell the 3 flowers I didn't use and make a profit (if I choose to).
Serves me right trying to inform folks who may not have known... cheers
Eir3 -
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Classic forum discussion: a vigorous debate about a 1% difference, citing add-ons.0 -
volkeswagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think most people are aware you don't get it back. I am sure it even says that in the game0 -
Blencathra✭✭✭I think the reason people think you do (and I did too) is the amount you get in the mail is higher than that listed in the addon (Master Merchant) by the listing fee amount. But now I realise that this is because the add-on deletes the listing fee from the amount sent, so it shows the true profitEdited by Blencathra on June 19, 2025 2:37PM0
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preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Arise, my pretty thread !
I do know we are in full worm cult season, but that's no reason to necro like that !1 -
LootAllTheStuff✭✭✭✭Well, at least the UESP wiki got updated with the correct information - including the reduced listing time. So there's that
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ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings,
We have closed this topic as it was originally created in 2021. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.0
This discussion has been closed.