A system that will significantly make solo content easier is "optional"
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
It's more 'solo play' than it was when it first came out. *Context*
On the contrary. When the game first came out, there were no trials and no veteran dungeons. Those came after launch.
What you had was zone after zone of quests. They did focus more on groups when they added vet dungeons, trials and pledges. Along with the DLC zone world bosses that packed a punch.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
Where's the group focused content for Blackwood?
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
It's more 'solo play' than it was when it first came out. *Context*
On the contrary. When the game first came out, there were no trials and no veteran dungeons. Those came after launch.
What you had was zone after zone of quests. They did focus more on groups when they added vet dungeons, trials and pledges. Along with the DLC zone world bosses that packed a punch.
We did everything together from my experience. I remember some soloish players who would want to challenge themselves to content made for 4, but it was very rare as it was much harder back then as you say.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
Forced group content in zones never goes down well. A lesson Craglorn learned well...
I think the next big "MMO" advancement for the genre will be to make solo content truly solo, so you don't even run into random players on the map unless it's beneficial to you (ie, world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons). Seeing other players around you when you're questing or delving actively detracts from the experience since it necessitates MMO tropes like respawning mobs and simpler quest structures (can't have set pieces and big changes after quests in a shared world). It's not a thought many players want to face though - they'll defend seeing players everywhere and say "that's how an MMO works" as though MMOs have stayed the same and never evolved, and as though modern MMOs like Destiny and the Division aren't half way to this position already. But it's almost certainly going to happen, and I think that 95% chunk of players will love it for the increased quality in AI, level design, and quest structure as a result.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Shootsfoot wrote: »They sound optional to me, so...don't do it?
A system that will significantly make solo content easier is "optional"
Highly doubt that [snip]
[edited for baiting]
Thealteregoroman wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
Forced group content in zones never goes down well. A lesson Craglorn learned well...
I think the next big "MMO" advancement for the genre will be to make solo content truly solo, so you don't even run into random players on the map unless it's beneficial to you (ie, world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons). Seeing other players around you when you're questing or delving actively detracts from the experience since it necessitates MMO tropes like respawning mobs and simpler quest structures (can't have set pieces and big changes after quests in a shared world). It's not a thought many players want to face though - they'll defend seeing players everywhere and say "that's how an MMO works" as though MMOs have stayed the same and never evolved, and as though modern MMOs like Destiny and the Division aren't half way to this position already. But it's almost certainly going to happen, and I think that 95% chunk of players will love it for the increased quality in AI, level design, and quest structure as a result.
finally, someone gets it.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
It's more 'solo play' than it was when it first came out. *Context*
On the contrary. When the game first came out, there were no trials and no veteran dungeons. Those came after launch.
What you had was zone after zone of quests. They did focus more on groups when they added vet dungeons, trials and pledges. Along with the DLC zone world bosses that packed a punch.
We did everything together from my experience. I remember some soloish players who would want to challenge themselves to content made for 4, but it was very rare as it was much harder back then as you say.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
The problem with having content that is designed to be played by people together is that it's fine when it launches, but then the initial crowd moves on and anyone new coming along is stuck because there's no-one else about to make the content doable. That was ultimately the problem in Craglorn as originally designed.
A system that will significantly make solo content easier is "optional"
I am not a big fan of an army of NPCs either, but let's just wait and find out how big of an impact those companions are to the game. Frankly speaking: if a player is struggling with the current solo content (with the exception of the veteran arenas), he/she would probably not want to group anyways. At best it is a damage pet for tanks and healers who don't want to run a separate build for solo dps.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »A system that will significantly make solo content easier is "optional"
I am not a big fan of an army of NPCs either, but let's just wait and find out how big of an impact those companions are to the game. Frankly speaking: if a player is struggling with the current solo content (with the exception of the veteran arenas), he/she would probably not want to group anyways. At best it is a damage pet for tanks and healers who don't want to run a separate build for solo dps.
Another said thing is there will be a companion tier list so everyone will be running around with the exact same npc just flooding the world.
We see this in SWTOR.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
.
You can't get to certain ilevel or light level in destiny or WoW without other players so idk where you got this illusion that the west prefers single player content
You mention Craglorn but ignore craglorn want a bad zone but the timing was bad... it was for only veteran 10 players which was an absolutely minuscule amount of people by the time of its release.
Unless they changed something, you can certainly get to max level in WoW as a solo player.. ilvl is not something you need, if you don't want to.. so yes, it could be a sign that most people prefer a single player experience
ilevel is something you need because you can't solo layers in Torghast(maelstrom arena) without certain ilevels.JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
It's more 'solo play' than it was when it first came out. *Context*
On the contrary. When the game first came out, there were no trials and no veteran dungeons. Those came after launch.
What you had was zone after zone of quests. They did focus more on groups when they added vet dungeons, trials and pledges. Along with the DLC zone world bosses that packed a punch.
Veteran dungeons were there on launch.. also VR zones at launch were so difficult you needed to group for Craglorn and Cadwell's gold/ silver or you would take forever doing simple quest.. I remember being killed by VR mudcrabs
etchedpixels wrote: »A lot of people I know play the game as if it were Skyrim + group roleplay and want to play it as if it was Skyrim, or Skyrim + group role playing. Companions, romance and the like fit right into that so to me makes a lot of sense and are really just bringing more missing Skyrim elements into ESO.
The concern I have is more in the other direction - if all the elite folks start running super-optimized dungeon/trial teams with companions all slotting perfect gear and other setup to boost the group then they'll have to make the hard content even harder, and effectively you'll only be able to complete a vet trial with 12 companions precisely tuned - which will suck for those who don't want to do that.
So I'd really like to see companions excluded from group content, except for solo "walk in the door" dungeoneering - and then mostly because the badly conceived "anti-solo" mechanics in some dungeons like Direfrost need a spare muppet to stand somewhere to open a gate.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
.
You can't get to certain ilevel or light level in destiny or WoW without other players so idk where you got this illusion that the west prefers single player content
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Veteran dungeons were there on launch.. also VR zones at launch were so difficult you needed to group for Craglorn and Cadwell's gold/ silver or you would take forever doing simple quest.. I remember being killed by VR mudcrabs
Adventure Zones were a type of Veteran-only content area in which all the gameplay was geared towards groups of four high level players. [...]
The only Adventure Zone to see release was Craglorn, which was added in Update 1 and expanded in Update 4. However, the Adventure Zone model was scrapped in Update 12 in order to make Craglorn more accessible.
Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »Thealteregoroman wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
Forced group content in zones never goes down well. A lesson Craglorn learned well...
I think the next big "MMO" advancement for the genre will be to make solo content truly solo, so you don't even run into random players on the map unless it's beneficial to you (ie, world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons). Seeing other players around you when you're questing or delving actively detracts from the experience since it necessitates MMO tropes like respawning mobs and simpler quest structures (can't have set pieces and big changes after quests in a shared world). It's not a thought many players want to face though - they'll defend seeing players everywhere and say "that's how an MMO works" as though MMOs have stayed the same and never evolved, and as though modern MMOs like Destiny and the Division aren't half way to this position already. But it's almost certainly going to happen, and I think that 95% chunk of players will love it for the increased quality in AI, level design, and quest structure as a result.
finally, someone gets it.
SWTOR is already 90% like that; all story missions take place in personal phases (with the option to invite a friend, but they would be just a spectator) and other quest phases are group-instanced; no random people allowed in them. Most of their "dungeons" also have a Story mode that can be soloed (along with hardmode for those who want it) and you only really come across other players in rest areas and the few overland sections of the map which have diminished as the game evolved.
Personally I WISH ESO's story content took place in group-instanced areas (a group of 1 is still a group of course), there's nothing more anticlimactic than encountering a story boss only for some rando to kill it before I even got a look in.
Well it's going to make some folks mad, because they liked the fact that they could act jerkish to players and said player didn't have much choice if they wanted to see the ends of dungeons.
Gone are the days of screaming fake Tank
Gone are the days of Git GUUD Scrub.
A couple players now can take their companions and run anything but veteran trials and PVP, they can take their time and never hear GOGOGOOGOGOGO again.
And best off the parser crowd won't have to deal with the lowly player who isn't in it for world first and bragging rights.
Now if the will just make story mode instance versions of Delves and Public Dungeons the game will be perfect.
Mythreindeer wrote: »
We sure the companion system is going to be that intrusive?
Gone are the days of screaming fake Tank
Gone are the days of Git GUUD Scrub.