PvP mode/flagged as available option!

The_Old_Goat · January 2021

If you do a search for this particular topic in the forums, you will see that the responses are by a majority, wildly unfavorable. No amount of logic, or rehashing the subject is going to change that. For the most part, those of us that are playing this game, like the pvp and the pve separated just as it is and I play a fair amount of both.

Faiza · January 2021

I'd just rather not have ball groups running circles in Rimmen tbh

drunkendx · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Not that I don't get your annoyance.. but you say you have auto decline ON, and still got duel requests??

With autodecline on you still get notification about declined duel.

Can be quite tiresome when someone decided to spam challenge you.

Sylvermynx · January 2021

drunkendx wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Not that I don't get your annoyance.. but you say you have auto decline ON, and still got duel requests??

With autodecline on you still get notification about declined duel.

Can be quite tiresome when someone decided to spam challenge you.

No kidding.

Agalloch · January 2021

This was intended:

https://elderscrollsonline.info/justice-system

But because many of the original ESO team left, the system was abandoned.

Lysette · January 2021

It is never a good idea to mix the pvp and pve crowd in the same regions - it will always lead to a lot of grief and complains about grief - both play styles are basically incompatible and should therefore be separated from each other. That is basically why the justice system was rejected in the end. That there are duels in pve zones is already bad enough, but still tolerable.

eso_lags · January 2021

Raideen wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

So, much toxicity towards PVP and PVPers on these forums.

This is not to say you have to like the idea but this community has really built a toxic behavior towards any mention of PVP no matter the context. Can’t we all just get along?

That's not really fair, this thread being a classic example of PvEers simply responding defensively/critically to yet another attempt by PvPers to import PvP into the PvE zones, just as with so many threads in the past relating to the Justice System as well as open world PvP generally. I think if PvPers were content to leave PvP in the PvP zones then perhaps there would be greater harmony between the different playstyles - especially if skill changes required for one playstyle or the other were restricted to that playstyle. It seems, however, that from time to time some PvPers are determined to import PvP into PvE zones while they are, of course, always opposed to any suggestion of a PvE instance for Cyrodiil or IC. ZOS announced a long time ago that PvE and PvP would be kept separate, and I think that was one of their best decisions.

But that is not what is happening. The OP clearly stated it would be an OPT in system where only flagged players who wanted to engage in PVP would do so. This would not affect PVE players in any way, shape, or form. So @UGotBenched91 statement is not only fair, its spot on.

[snip] And then some people make absurd excuses like oh the games to glitchy, what if the system glitched out because i healed someone who was flagged for pvp and i died😲?

Please. The pve mains on the forums dont realize how they light a fire under posts like this. Why not just ignore it til its gone? [snip] You know its not going to happen. I know its not going to happen. But why not let people dream instead of arguing with people for the 100th time about the same thing?

[snip]

The fact is this is not a bad idea. Zos will never do it because they have no incentive to, but its not something that would impact anyone badly who didnt want to participate. And it would solve the problem of zos only have 2 small pvp zones.

Wow works just fine like this. I play wow currently, and in the past, so let me clarify. Turn on war mode, get transferred to another layer, get more benefits from the game as you play with the risk of participating in pvp. In classic wow its different, either play on a pvp server and risk pvp in 90% of the game, or play on a pve server. Of course I play on a pvp server.

Eso isnt wow, we dont have pvp and pve servers, and layering in this way would not work here due to player participation, but something like this would be cool. Zero harm to anyone that chooses to not flag up, and fun for those who want to do it.

Its actually even more simple than that, it would be like dueling but on a bigger scale. Think of it like this, its like everyone is participating in a large duel. You cant heal those people, or interact with them, and they're doing their own thing, while you do yours. Its just like going to belkarth or wayrest, you see people dueling all around the cities, but in this case there would be no boundaries to the dueling area.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Daemons_Bane · January 2021

eso_lags wrote: »

[snip] And then some people make absurd excuses like oh the games to glitchy, what if the system glitched out because i healed someone who was flagged for pvp and i died😲?

Please. The pve mains on the forums dont realize how they light a fire under posts like this. Why not just ignore it til its gone? [snip] You know its not going to happen. I know its not going to happen. But why not let people dream instead of arguing with people for the 100th time about the same thing?

[snip]

The fact is this is not a bad idea. Zos will never do it because they have no incentive to, but its not something that would impact anyone badly who didnt want to participate. And it would solve the problem of zos only have 2 small pvp zones.

Wow works just fine like this. I play wow currently, and in the past, so let me clarify. Turn on war mode, get transferred to another layer, get more benefits from the game as you play with the risk of participating in pvp. In classic wow its different, either play on a pvp server and risk pvp in 90% of the game, or play on a pve server. Of course I play on a pvp server.

Eso isnt wow, we dont have pvp and pve servers, and layering in this way would not work here due to player participation, but something like this would be cool. Zero harm to anyone that chooses to not flag up, and fun for those who want to do it.

Its actually even more simple than that, it would be like dueling but on a bigger scale. Think of it like this, its like everyone is participating in a large duel. You cant heal those people, or interact with them, and they're doing their own thing, while you do yours. Its just like going to belkarth or wayrest, you see people dueling all around the cities, but in this case there would be no boundaries to the dueling area.

[snip]

The concerns of the PvE mains are as legit as those who play PvP as their main game.. I don't see any "wrong, misleading, arguments" either, I just see players who are concerned about how their game will end up.. No matter how much we love ESO, we can't ignore the fact that it has some stability issues from time to time, and that most of those seems to be centered around Cyrodiil..
Whether or not opt-in PvP is a bad idea or not, depends on the person.. To some it will be a good idea, to some it will be horrible..
Who are you to say that

its not something that would impact anyone badly who didnt want to participate

? You don't get to decide how other players feel

Lets say I stand in a small town, like Kvatch, trying to do a little RP'ing or just enjoying the story.. Now here comes along 50 players battling over who gets to have imaginary control over the town.. My cozy afternoon now gets filled with battle, ability sound effects, the chat goes nuts, the connection might even get unstable due to the stress this can inflict on the server.. I would call that a pretty bad impact on my game experience..
So no, to some players it is not cool in any way, to some people dueling is annoying enough, but at least that is on a very small scale.. There is nothing fun or relaxing about having a load of people fighting all around you, when all you are doing is trying to have some nice and quiet game time
You don't understand the hostility, you don't understand why we keep speaking out against it? Well, if at this point you don't, 6 years or so in, you probably won't get it.. But some players will keep speaking out against it, because it's a nightmare if it would happen

c4sster · January 2021

Also about pvp system, most people see only wow ideas, but there where even better system, for example in very old game Metin 2.

Also we add a option to toggle ours stance:

- aggresive, we are able to attack other players.
- peaceful, we are not able to attack other players.
- and stance that allow us attack only players with negative ranks.
-
There are ranks how is your behavior, positive behavior have few ranks and benefits, negative too, for example;

Positive:

- 1 rank, add 1% to experience gain from all resources.
- 2 rank, add 3% to experience gain from all resources.
- 3 rank, add 5% to experience gain from all resources.

Negative:

-1 rank, add 3% chance to drop one of your dressed armor piece on death from other player, 2% movement speed increase.
-2 rank, add 6% chance to drop one of your dressed armor piece on death from other player, 4% movement speed increase.
-3 rank, add 9% chance to drop one of your dressed armor piece on death from other player. 6% movement speed increase.

Player with positive rank, who killed other peaceful players have 1% chance to drop iteam, but only during 15 min after kill.

Also perma lock from log out 15 min. after attack( if not killed, we can just shorter time to 1 min) or kill somebody, if someone log out, character stay in game till this time ends. Attack by guards during this time, and can be killed by everyone without penalties even if he has positive rank.
Killers when are out from perma lock, and are attacked by others, can kill them without penalties, they need some option to fight back when are hunted by others.
We can use here nickname color change, to see who we can kill even if he has possitive rank during 15 min. lock.
We can use titles to se with rank players has, for example: 1 rank- friendly, 2 good ect.
Ofcourse negative players can be hunt non stop outside town without penalties.

Possitive ranks will grow slowly up with time played, when we kill attackers or killers, ammout depends on thier ranks.
Negative ofcourse with killing other players with every positive or neutral rank. When killer kill killer, he will get small positive ammout of points, this will motivate killers to hunt other killers;), if they ofcourse want walk safe in overland.

This is correct motivation to not kill people, but in same time let us do it. Killer will fell fear when they leave towns, they will be easy targets to hunt for everyone.

This will add complete new experience in game, guilds who are specialized in hunting killers.
Ofcourse, there will be to guild who are specialized in killing, but thier lives will be very hard and unrewarding.

But honestly, im in game just 3 weeks now, and ours game population is lazzy than what I ever saw in my life.

Most of us just want to run around, without any need of thinking or take some effort, just from one map marker to other held by the developers hand, and complaing about everything what they cant do at first try.

And from second had, people complaing that developers don't make changes what should be done already years ago.

So i doubt that there will be any changes.

Sorry for my English.

hafgood · January 2021

Just no.

PvP is Cyrodiil, Imperial City, battlegrounds and dueling. Let's leave it like that thank you.

No matter what people who may want it may say there is a history of glitches in this game, as there are in every game. And when glitches happen with the PvP flag and a lot of players get killed because they had it flagged as off can you imagine the outcry on the forums, Facebook and twitter? I can assure you Zos can and they don't want the grief it would bring and who can blame them?

And, when push comes to shove, the number of players with the flag set to on would be few and far between thus making it worthless. Why? Because your true PvPers would be where the fight is, in the PvP part of the game, its the griefers and the gankers that want this, the same ones that enjoy killing PvErs in Midyear Mayhem, the ones who are as despised equally by PvPers and PvErs.

c4sster · January 2021

I think some peope dont unterstand whye someone want open world pvp, they just nooo. Even if most who want pvp, want optional pvp.
By the way, optional pvp whithout any real penalties, fraction sides, will be complete fail, this will be never ending war everyere without any sense. But implement fraction sides like for example wow has, its imposible now, becouse of "One Tamriel".
So i think most of us here, just dont get a point how this should work. There is definitely to many people around.

To understand whye someone want overland pvp, we need to understand that they are quite different things.

Most of them want to fell some danger when traveling, want unexpected fight for chest, resources, suprises, emotions and how its fell in ES game.You need to think what u are doing, watch where you are going, avoid large groups of others players with bad reputation. Pvp in overland is many times more satisfying, especially if we are fighting for something, not just blind runing around and fight.

This is complete different experience like just go to battleground, or Cyrodiil and play hourse riding simulator. I like sieges and Cyrodiil, but this is complete something different.

Also i personally am a rather weak player, definitely i will lose most encounters, but i love some unexpected adrenaline rush, and easy can trade this 1 min. riding back where i was killed for this.

After thinking a bit, in my opinion, optional system together with this system what i posted will be the best solution for how should pvp work in eso, Just second stance will remove player complete from pvp options.

But that just my opinion.

Daemons_Bane · January 2021

c4sster wrote: »

I think some peope dont unterstand whye someone want open world pvp, they just nooo. Even if most who want pvp, want optional pvp.
By the way, optional pvp whithout any real penalties, fraction sides, will be complete fail, this will be never ending war everyere without any sense. But implement fraction sides like for example wow has, its imposible now, becouse of "One Tamriel".
So i think most of us here, just dont get a point how this should work. There is definitely to many people around.

To understand whye someone want overland pvp, we need to understand that they are quite different things.

Most of them want to fell some danger when traveling, want unexpected fight for chest, resources, suprises, emotions and how its fell in ES game.You need to think what u are doing, watch where you are going, avoid large groups of others players with bad reputation. Pvp in overland is many times more satisfying, especially if we are fighting for something, not just blind runing around and fight.

This is complete different experience like just go to battleground, or Cyrodiil and play hourse riding simulator. I like sieges and Cyrodiil, but this is complete something different.

Also i personally am a rather weak player, definitely i will lose most encounters, but i love some unexpected adrenaline rush, and easy can trade this 1 min. riding back where i was killed for this.

After thinking a bit, in my opinion, optional system together with this system what i posted will be the best solution for how should pvp work in eso, Just second stance will remove player complete from pvp options.

But that just my opinion.

After considering all you said, my vote is still against it

Akisohida · January 2021

Eh. I'm against this. But mostly for reasons I'll get into below. Sit back and get comfy; it's story time.

Back in WoW, when Cata came out, all my friends played was PvP servers. So I had to be on it to play with them, and I play MMOs to be social. So PvP server it was!
I was Horde, in X-Roads, as a Hunter. I decided to plonk down a Frost Trap because I had just hit..level 20, I believe it was, back then? Well, unknownst to me, an Alliance Rogue, max level, was ganking lowbies.
Basically, he had killed a few people in Xroads & stealthed. When lowbie Priests saw the dead people, they would rez them, which flagged them PvP to do. Then the Rogue would gank THEM.

So I drop a Frost Trap, just to see how it works, looks like, etc. Because it's a shiny, new skill. The Rogue steps on it. The MAX LEVEL Rogue.
The stars align, and it freezes him. Just in time for a Gank Squad to show up, out for his blood, and turn him into paste.
The Rogue saw me place it. He knew my character name. So his entire guild followed me south to 1k Needles, which was now Contested, thanks to Cata..Or maybe it always was? I can't fully remember.
They ganked me, and then placed lookouts at every Flight Master and every Spirit Healer from 1k Needles to X-Roads. Plus my corpse, of course. If I rezzed, I died.

I spent around four hours either staying dead, or dying when I rezzed, before a GM got to my ticket. These people got nothing for killing me, other than a dopamine rush for ganking a lowbie.
The entire guild was banned from WoW. I only know this because the GM said 'It will be taken care of' or other GM speak for 'We will handle it, but not tell you how'.
But when I went on the forums later, some people were asking where that guild went. It was gone.
Wish I could remember the name.

Story 2:

Again; Cata. I was playing a Night Elf, and went south of Auberdine. The level 15-20 area your quests send you. Only Blizzard, being idiots, made that lowby area contested now. it used to be Alliance.

So I get to the town, and notice every NPC is dead. I see a max level Warrior gank a fellow NElf & I promptly Shadowmeld in a bush.

The Warrior then spent SEVEN HOURS patrolling the town, keeping the Flight Master dead (So no one could escape), and ganking lowbies who arrived via the quest chain. Even chasing them down if they tries to rez & run.

No gank squad came this time, because no one could leave the area to ask for help in a different area.

A GM finally answered me after, as I said, seven hours (of which I stayed hidden in that bush & watched TV). His reply?
'That's PvP. If you don't like it, don't play.'

That's the day I turned off the game, uninstalled, and cancelled my account. In the 'Tell us why you're leaving' questionaire, I quoted the GM and provided a link to the screenshot of them telling me such.

I have never played WoW since, and I've always hated PvP. It's too easy to abuse it to ruin the fun of others, and, while meaning no offense, it often times looks like the people who want it so badly are the kind who would rather bully lowbies instead of want a fair fight.

UGotBenched91 · January 2021

JKorr wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

So let me get this right, most of you who are against this option are just against seeing too many skill effects around you?

[Edit to remove bait]

No. I'm against this option because people would find ways to abuse it and interfere with others who just want to play in peace. Personal example of this behavior:

I just got off the game; I was in Riften. I have autodecline turned on. I opened my inventory to pull items to sell. A wonderfully "mature" individual started throwing mudballs, running in circles, and spamming one of the shiny sparkly aoes, throwing in some lightning for fun. I was still in my inventory, pulling items, and watching my character do the "omg, I'm covered in mud" animation of shaking arms and wiping down. When I exited the menu, I immediately got a duel request, which I declined. I started towards the bank, and was hit by a mudball every step of the way. This sterling example of why I loathe pvp tried again when I headed to the crafting stations, multiple mudballs so the animation kicked in, and another duel request.

I mean... what your describing is an item from a PVE event. You can’t assume all PvP players are bad and annoying because isolated experiences. If so, PVE community would be considered a lot more toxic than PvP from my experiences.

Gythral · January 2021

Like most openworld PvP optional
I'll vote with my money (against the gankers)...

zvavi · January 2021

They can't even make cyro work properly, and you want every zone to be optional PvP zone? More server calculations?

Other than the realistic issues with it, in a game without enough PvP crowd, it will be either a dead feature (if optional) or a way to abuse people (if forced).

Akisohida · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

c4sster wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

Amen!

I don't care if there's more PvP zones. I just won't visit them, myself.

But I don't want people trying to trick me into PvP by trying to make me click on them. Or trying to attack me nonstop. Or people battling each other around world bosses or Geysers or Harrowstorms.

Leave the PvP in PvP zones.

c4sster · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

https://ibb.co/CJtzQ3X

It speaks for itself, so unfortunately you are wrong.

Ofcourse there can be fight betwen heroes in games like this, There are fight bethen them already, just half of them are npc.
Every massive multiplayer game have some story;).

Daemons_Bane · January 2021

c4sster wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

https://ibb.co/CJtzQ3X

It speaks for itself, so unfortunately you are wrong.

Ofcourse there can be fight betwen heroes in games like this, There are fight bethen them already, just half of them are npc.
Every massive multiplayer game have some story;).

From your point of view, I might be wrong.. luckily for me though, it seems the majority and the devs agree with me

Tandor · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

c4sster wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

Well said. I agree with all of that, wholeheartedly, including supporting more PvP options being made available in PvP zones..

c4sster · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

From your point of view, I might be wrong.. luckily for me though, it seems the majority and the devs agree with me

Not from my point of view, this is just fact;).

But, yes luckily for you the majority are same like you.

Devs unfortunetly not, if majority some day will want overland pvp, they will get it;)

Daemons_Bane · January 2021

c4sster wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

From your point of view, I might be wrong.. luckily for me though, it seems the majority and the devs agree with me

Not from my point of view, this is just fact;).

But, yes luckily for you the majority are same like you.

Devs unfortunetly not, if majority some day will want overland pvp, they will get it;)

You have gotten open world PvP as the promised you, so they kept their word.. let's just hope that one day you might get some new zones to play in

@Tandor, hearing a "Well said" from you, I'll take as high praise indeed

Tandor · January 2021

c4sster wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

From your point of view, I might be wrong.. luckily for me though, it seems the majority and the devs agree with me

Not from my point of view, this is just fact;).

But, yes luckily for you the majority are same like you.

Devs unfortunetly not, if majority some day will want overland pvp, they will get it;)

Seeing that players who focus primarily on PvP probably only account for about 10% of the playerbase, and even some of them don't support open world PvP, while the majority of those who enjoy both PvP and PvE will almost certainly favour keeping them separate, I don't see that day coming any time soon.

phantasmalD · January 2021

I don't see anyone benefitting from such an option but gankers. You'd have to be a masochist or something to want to give the initiative to someone else OR be a gankblade yourself.

c4sster wrote: »

Most of them want to fell some danger when traveling, want unexpected fight for chest, resources, suprises, emotions and how its fell in ES game

Two PvP guys duking it out for a chest (containing 21 gold, one Adamantine and a green weapon) while a PvE guy comes along, being literally untouchable, and just takes the chest for themself. Free frustration for everyone!

If you want to feel in danger while doing PvE then you can got to Cyrodiil or IC where you can experience such wonderful events like getting ganked as you are talking to a questgiver or permastunned while picking up a flower.

c4sster · January 2021

phantasmalD wrote: »

I don't see anyone benefitting from such an option but gankers. You'd have to be a masochist or something to want to give the initiative to someone else OR be a gankblade yourself.

What is so hard in die and run with hourse max 1 min. back? For me its nothing, but if i manage to survive or even win, no other pvp competition will replace this. This is just immersion. If you read my post above, you understand already.

But i will tell something more. Today everyone is in a hurry everywhere, even i a game, after all, this game will not escape you. I want my time spent with the game to have the impression of a dangerous world.
It gives me pleasure and satisfaction, and not the fastest, hassle-free run through the game.

This also applies to the level of difficulty pve, just as I read in tasks about a powerful enemy, which I later spread like a pawn, immersion automatically drops to 0. But I can still accept this because of the majority.

phantasmalD wrote: »

If you want to feel in danger while doing PvE then you can got to Cyrodiil or IC where you can experience such wonderful events like getting ganked as you are talking to a questgiver or permastunned while picking up a flower.

And i will but, how long you can stay in 1 single zone? How long the tasks last?

I will be very fast bored just wandering, for that i can play skyrim.

Tommy_The_Gun · January 2021

I don't think that is good idea... quite the opposite - I think it is a terrible idea... No need to explain why... plenty of reasons... If you played PvP Cyro or IC then you know at least a couple of them...

c4sster · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Well, how will you react if I suggested that PvE players should be allowed to walk around Cyrodiil with PvP turned off.?

Also next expansion Zos can rebuild Cyrodiil, can do after war expansion;).

And i like your idea, so long as long you will accept optional pvp system everywere.

Ofcourse joking, this will never happend.

But from other hand, how would you do if the only pve arena was Cyrodiil?
You will have solo instances and such things, sounds right for you?
Or maybe its not the same experience?

Daemons_Bane · January 2021

c4sster wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Well, how will you react if I suggested that PvE players should be allowed to walk around Cyrodiil with PvP turned off.?

Also next expansion Zos can rebuild Cyrodiil, can do after war expansion;).

And i like your idea, so long as long you will accept optional pvp system everywere.

Ofcourse joking, this will never happend.

But from other hand, how would you do if the only pve arena was Cyrodiil?
You will have solo instances and such things, sounds right for you?
Or maybe its not the same experience?

Yes we get more than you do.. unfair.? Maybe, but TES is a game with more focus on PvE and story.. that's just how it is.. I'm sure they are working in getting more content out to you at some point.. It would be nice to see soon, but they are keeping the info to themselves

kargen27 · January 2021

Saw a few posts concerned about large groups of PvP interrupting their PvE experience. You would only have to worry about this for maybe two weeks. Cyrodiil has chokepoints and objectives that cause players to concentrate in areas for large battles. Other zones are not designed for that. Might be a few guild on guild battles for a while but those wouldn't last long. First problem would be scheduling between the guilds wanting to participate. 2nd and bigger problem would be all the grief PvE'rs would give them. We all know as soon as a decent sized battle breaks out trolls on the PvE side will flock to the area casting every skill they can for the visuals and run around trying to get in the way of the fight. They will try to justify the behavior pointing at PvP'rs camping quest sights in PvP during those events we all know and love.

Anyway eventually the large planned battles will not last long. Then you are left with a huge zone and a few players doing PvP hoping they run into each other somewhere in all that open space. Maybe gankers will camp wayshrines for a while waiting for the unlucky sap that forgot to toggle off PvP.

THe biggest problem though is there isn't a big enough PvP community to support the idea. The population is already thin at peak hours. So much so that it is common advice to players that only want to PvE in Cyrodiil to join one of the empty campaigns. That strategy often works. This plays into other posts I have seen saying PvE has lots of zones and PvP only two. Adding another PvP only zone is going to spread an already thin population even thinner. PvP needs to be kept fresh and dynamic not by adding new content but through providing different things in the content already provided.

The main reason not to make all zones PvP optional is it isn't worth the effort. over the long term very few players would take advantage.

I think it would be fun to see maybe once a month or so an instance created for the week-end where one town is a free for all. Players not wanting to PvP would see the town as normal. Players that wanted to PvP would be in an instance where it is kill or be killed. Doing it once a month or so wouldn't take away much from the normal PvP community.

Jeremy · January 2021

DeHei wrote: »

TESO changed since release and not everything is going wrong. I wanted to discuss a optional active PvP mode or beeing flagged for PvP on open world would be a great improvement of the game. For beeing flagged the rewards like XP, Gold ect. could be increased like 25% for everything i do while i am flagged. With killing a PvP flagged guy from other alliances i get alliance points AND no penalty like "this is a criminal act".
For me this would be a great fun and would make open world maps also more interesting again.

What do you think?

Why not just go to Cyrodil? Or Imperial City?