PvP mode/flagged as available option!

hafgood

I PvP, I enjoy PvP. I have been Emperor and have helped any other Emp pushes.

Do I want openworld PvP - no.

I have no interest in slaughtering innocents that haven't turned the setting off, in fact most PvPers aren't, there is no fun in it.

Yes trolls, griefers amd gankers enjoy that kind of thing - and they come from the PvE world as much as the PvP world.

But my opinions to one side.

Let's look at this objectively.

1. How much would this cost to implement? I think we can all agree its not going to be cheap, it it basically a.rewrite of a lot of code and with additional safe mode mechanisms added in for those that want to flag as PvE, so its not as simple as just extending the existing code from Cyrodiil and applying to the rest of the game.
2. Who is going to pay for this work? Zos has a limited budget, they will look to spend their budget for game improvements on things that will benefit the most players such as the sticker book. This does not fall into that category as I think we are all agreed it doesn't benefit most players.
3. So where does the money come from? Would people really play 30,000 crowns to have openworld PvP? Yes the crowns figure is high but they have to recoup the costs somehow
4. Is this guaranteed to be glitch free? No, no game is glitch free, we all know thays the case so why pretend otherwise.
5. Do Zos need the publicity of it all going horribly wrong due to a glitch or a problem with an old routine in the coding getting called with catastrophic results? No, they want to encourage new players not put them off.
6. If you haven't done so yet Google 'Falador Massacre' for what can go wrong, yes that was years ago but happened due to lag, which is a common complaint with this game.

So will it happen in ESO? No. There is.no chance of it happening in ESO no matter how much a few people.shout for it, there is no money in it, there would be a lot of unhappy players and in the end we all know that most players would flag it off thus making it pointless as the few players with it chase around the world trying to find someone else with the flag set to on. Why would they bother when we have PvP zones set up already?

Just think about it

Ryath_Waylander

redspecter23 wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling that the players that want this sort of thing wouldn't be searching out good fights, but instead be constantly looking for some poor noob who flagged himself, thinking it might be fun so they can blast him off the face of the world only to have him turn the flag off asap so it won't happen again.

Adding an incentive won't make it better. It would just encourage the gankers to flock to the areas that are known grind spots to grief players to the point they just turn the flags off and the gankers just fight eachother out of boredom.

The sheer amount of times I am forcibly reminded to turn autodecline duel on, on a new alt, tells me this just won't work. I am constantly bombarded with duel requests around starter wayshrines and home town crafting/turn in areas, if I don't. This makes me suspect that this kind of request is largely motivated by people who can't find enough noobs to mow down in Cyrodiil. Are you finding less of them after the healer/12 group changes then?

Lysette

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

So let me get this right, most of you who are against this option are just against seeing too many skill effects around you?

[Edit to remove bait]

No. I'm against this option because people would find ways to abuse it and interfere with others who just want to play in peace. Personal example of this behavior:

I just got off the game; I was in Riften. I have autodecline turned on. I opened my inventory to pull items to sell. A wonderfully "mature" individual started throwing mudballs, running in circles, and spamming one of the shiny sparkly aoes, throwing in some lightning for fun. I was still in my inventory, pulling items, and watching my character do the "omg, I'm covered in mud" animation of shaking arms and wiping down. When I exited the menu, I immediately got a duel request, which I declined. I started towards the bank, and was hit by a mudball every step of the way. This sterling example of why I loathe pvp tried again when I headed to the crafting stations, multiple mudballs so the animation kicked in, and another duel request.

I mean... what your describing is an item from a PVE event. You can’t assume all PvP players are bad and annoying because isolated experiences. If so, PVE community would be considered a lot more toxic than PvP from my experiences.

Well, they are already annoying by just wanting to bring their pvp in pve zones - to begin with. Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before. Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away - this is basically unavoidable and therefore those play styles shouldn't be mixed in the same region. It is already bad enough that there is PvE in PvP zones - we really don't need the reverse of it.

Qbiken

I´m all for more "instance" based PvP, seeing how Cyrodiil is a lost cause, but idk if this is the way.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

eso_lags

Lysette wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

So let me get this right, most of you who are against this option are just against seeing too many skill effects around you?

[Edit to remove bait]

No. I'm against this option because people would find ways to abuse it and interfere with others who just want to play in peace. Personal example of this behavior:

I just got off the game; I was in Riften. I have autodecline turned on. I opened my inventory to pull items to sell. A wonderfully "mature" individual started throwing mudballs, running in circles, and spamming one of the shiny sparkly aoes, throwing in some lightning for fun. I was still in my inventory, pulling items, and watching my character do the "omg, I'm covered in mud" animation of shaking arms and wiping down. When I exited the menu, I immediately got a duel request, which I declined. I started towards the bank, and was hit by a mudball every step of the way. This sterling example of why I loathe pvp tried again when I headed to the crafting stations, multiple mudballs so the animation kicked in, and another duel request.

I mean... what your describing is an item from a PVE event. You can’t assume all PvP players are bad and annoying because isolated experiences. If so, PVE community would be considered a lot more toxic than PvP from my experiences.

Well, they are already annoying by just wanting to bring their pvp in pve zones - to begin with. Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before. Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away - this is basically unavoidable and therefore those play styles shouldn't be mixed in the same region. It is already bad enough that there is PvE in PvP zones - we really don't need the reverse of it.

Comments like this make me laugh. Let me put this mildly so nothing gets removed. Because someone has to.

Once again, you didnt read the original post.

Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away

Clearly you didnt read it. Because if you did you wouldnt be making assumptions about players who would be in favor of something like this considering the proposed system was OPT IN. Clearly. Opt in as in you dont participate unless you want to.

Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before

🤣🤣 Who was it rejected by? Player rejections are meaningless. You are not the developer of this game, and they have the say of what will and will not end up in the game. And even the developer, probably, wouldnt try to stop people from posting about something they wish they would see in the game. What makes you think your opinion is worth more than someone else's? And what makes you think that it matters to anyone that you're annoyed by someone wishing something was in the game? Its not hurting anyone.

What ever happened to "if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything" ? If you're so annoyed by it why do you come onto these threads and post about it?

Daemons_Bane

eso_lags wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

So let me get this right, most of you who are against this option are just against seeing too many skill effects around you?

[Edit to remove bait]

No. I'm against this option because people would find ways to abuse it and interfere with others who just want to play in peace. Personal example of this behavior:

I just got off the game; I was in Riften. I have autodecline turned on. I opened my inventory to pull items to sell. A wonderfully "mature" individual started throwing mudballs, running in circles, and spamming one of the shiny sparkly aoes, throwing in some lightning for fun. I was still in my inventory, pulling items, and watching my character do the "omg, I'm covered in mud" animation of shaking arms and wiping down. When I exited the menu, I immediately got a duel request, which I declined. I started towards the bank, and was hit by a mudball every step of the way. This sterling example of why I loathe pvp tried again when I headed to the crafting stations, multiple mudballs so the animation kicked in, and another duel request.

I mean... what your describing is an item from a PVE event. You can’t assume all PvP players are bad and annoying because isolated experiences. If so, PVE community would be considered a lot more toxic than PvP from my experiences.

Well, they are already annoying by just wanting to bring their pvp in pve zones - to begin with. Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before. Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away - this is basically unavoidable and therefore those play styles shouldn't be mixed in the same region. It is already bad enough that there is PvE in PvP zones - we really don't need the reverse of it.

Comments like this make me laugh. Let me put this mildly so nothing gets removed. Because someone has to.

Once again, you didnt read the original post.

Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away

Clearly you didnt read it. Because if you did you wouldnt be making assumptions about players who would be in favor of something like this considering the proposed system was OPT IN. Clearly. Opt in as in you dont participate unless you want to.

Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before

🤣🤣 Who was it rejected by? Player rejections are meaningless. You are not the developer of this game, and they have the say of what will and will not end up in the game.

We can make assumptions about the other players, based on our experience.. you do it yourself too
And you ask who it was rejected by? Well it was rejected by ZOS/Bethesda, aka the highest authority in this game

Cirantille

Imagine a vSS group and a vAS group fighting at the undaunted enclove

Lysette

eso_lags wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

So let me get this right, most of you who are against this option are just against seeing too many skill effects around you?

[Edit to remove bait]

No. I'm against this option because people would find ways to abuse it and interfere with others who just want to play in peace. Personal example of this behavior:

I just got off the game; I was in Riften. I have autodecline turned on. I opened my inventory to pull items to sell. A wonderfully "mature" individual started throwing mudballs, running in circles, and spamming one of the shiny sparkly aoes, throwing in some lightning for fun. I was still in my inventory, pulling items, and watching my character do the "omg, I'm covered in mud" animation of shaking arms and wiping down. When I exited the menu, I immediately got a duel request, which I declined. I started towards the bank, and was hit by a mudball every step of the way. This sterling example of why I loathe pvp tried again when I headed to the crafting stations, multiple mudballs so the animation kicked in, and another duel request.

I mean... what your describing is an item from a PVE event. You can’t assume all PvP players are bad and annoying because isolated experiences. If so, PVE community would be considered a lot more toxic than PvP from my experiences.

Well, they are already annoying by just wanting to bring their pvp in pve zones - to begin with. Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before. Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away - this is basically unavoidable and therefore those play styles shouldn't be mixed in the same region. It is already bad enough that there is PvE in PvP zones - we really don't need the reverse of it.

Comments like this make me laugh. Let me put this mildly so nothing gets removed. Because someone has to.

Once again, you didnt read the original post.

Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away

Clearly you didnt read it. Because if you did you wouldnt be making assumptions about players who would be in favor of something like this considering the proposed system was OPT IN. Clearly. Opt in as in you dont participate unless you want to.

Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before

🤣🤣 Who was it rejected by? Player rejections are meaningless. You are not the developer of this game, and they have the say of what will and will not end up in the game. And even the developer, probably, wouldnt try to stop people from posting about something they wish they would see in the game. What makes you think your opinion is worth more than someone else's? And what makes you think that it matters to anyone that you're annoyed by someone wishing something was in the game? Its not hurting anyone.

What ever happened to "if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything" ? If you're so annoyed by it why do you come onto these threads and post about it?

Ok, I read it very carefully -but you don't see that already the repeated request for a feature, which was discussed in length before and rejected is annoying in itself. And if you think that Opt in would help, it doesn't - because I would still see those players fighting in places, which are already a lag fest - like it is with the dueling system - it is incredibly annoying - opt in, but incredibly annoying.

And as far as my mention of the killer/griefer type is concerned, I used a typology of Richard Bartle, who was involved in the creation of MUDs in the 70s-90s (text-based multi-user RPGs) and studied player characteristics and types and their interdependence in these kind of games (which were basically smaller low tech versions of MMOs). The killer/griefer type is one of those 4 basic player types and common in games with PvP (around 30%), with the griefer variant to be very likely in games, where PvP is opt-in - so this is nothing I just pull out of thin air - this has been studied since decades and it just changed for the worse in those years - we really don't need to make the same mistake all over again.

Well, and if you want to know more about it being rejected - search for the justice system and discussions about it - it was intended once but then rejected by developers of course - they are the only ones, who can effectively reject it - look it up, if you want to know more, I won't do the work for you.

And why do I post about it?- Because I can, and are entitled to my opinion, it doesn't have to match yours in order to be allowed in this thread. And like I said above, already the pure mention of it as a new thread in this forum is annoying - and could as well be seen as baiting.

renne

Cirantille wrote: »

Imagine a vSS group and a vAS group fighting at the undaunted enclove

My money is on the vSS group unless the vAS group is secretly a vAS+2 group and then they'll wipe the floor with them. UNLESS the vSS group is secretly a vSSHM group and then I realise I've thought about this way too much.

Goregrinder

Sylvermynx wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this topic, I'm seeing some responses that make me question if some of the people replying have ever played an open PVP game before.

In almost all of these games you cant just be "bullied" or "ganked" unless you have flagged yourself as wanting to PVP or you have attached another player. And I've never seen or heard of an open PVP game where you can kill in town. Games like WOW, AION ,Lineage 2 have safe zones like towns that prevent this behavior. Again, I'm not saying ESO needs this I just want to clarify what having this would likely imply.

Griefing was rampant in WoW and RIFT when I played them. It was very easy for someone to be flagged, and get between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged, for instance. There were many ways - that's just one I remember offhand.

Yeah but you consented to PVP by joining a PVP server.

renne

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this topic, I'm seeing some responses that make me question if some of the people replying have ever played an open PVP game before.

In almost all of these games you cant just be "bullied" or "ganked" unless you have flagged yourself as wanting to PVP or you have attached another player. And I've never seen or heard of an open PVP game where you can kill in town. Games like WOW, AION ,Lineage 2 have safe zones like towns that prevent this behavior. Again, I'm not saying ESO needs this I just want to clarify what having this would likely imply.

Griefing was rampant in WoW and RIFT when I played them. It was very easy for someone to be flagged, and get between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged, for instance. There were many ways - that's just one I remember offhand.

Yeah but you consented to PVP by joining a PVP server.

Consenting to PVP is not consenting to being griefed.

Sylvermynx

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this topic, I'm seeing some responses that make me question if some of the people replying have ever played an open PVP game before.

In almost all of these games you cant just be "bullied" or "ganked" unless you have flagged yourself as wanting to PVP or you have attached another player. And I've never seen or heard of an open PVP game where you can kill in town. Games like WOW, AION ,Lineage 2 have safe zones like towns that prevent this behavior. Again, I'm not saying ESO needs this I just want to clarify what having this would likely imply.

Griefing was rampant in WoW and RIFT when I played them. It was very easy for someone to be flagged, and get between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged, for instance. There were many ways - that's just one I remember offhand.

Yeah but you consented to PVP by joining a PVP server.

Actually that was on the normal servers I played on, Shadowsong and Icecrown. When I was on the friend's pvp server, of course I was flagged when in the world instead of home city.

Goregrinder

renne wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this topic, I'm seeing some responses that make me question if some of the people replying have ever played an open PVP game before.

In almost all of these games you cant just be "bullied" or "ganked" unless you have flagged yourself as wanting to PVP or you have attached another player. And I've never seen or heard of an open PVP game where you can kill in town. Games like WOW, AION ,Lineage 2 have safe zones like towns that prevent this behavior. Again, I'm not saying ESO needs this I just want to clarify what having this would likely imply.

Griefing was rampant in WoW and RIFT when I played them. It was very easy for someone to be flagged, and get between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged, for instance. There were many ways - that's just one I remember offhand.

Yeah but you consented to PVP by joining a PVP server.

Consenting to PVP is not consenting to being griefed.

How do you define "greifing"? A skilled player killing a less skilled player? A powerful player killing a less powerful player? Logging onto a character on a PVP server, farming mats, minding your own business, then suddenly getting ganked?

Sylvermynx

Griefing back when I played the other games was a lot of things done by those "opt-in flagged"; as I said, the only one I remember offhand now is the case of the griefer getting between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged and then get instantly dead.

I understand WoW is now different, but that's how it was when I played beginning in 2006.

renne

Goregrinder wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this topic, I'm seeing some responses that make me question if some of the people replying have ever played an open PVP game before.

In almost all of these games you cant just be "bullied" or "ganked" unless you have flagged yourself as wanting to PVP or you have attached another player. And I've never seen or heard of an open PVP game where you can kill in town. Games like WOW, AION ,Lineage 2 have safe zones like towns that prevent this behavior. Again, I'm not saying ESO needs this I just want to clarify what having this would likely imply.

Griefing was rampant in WoW and RIFT when I played them. It was very easy for someone to be flagged, and get between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged, for instance. There were many ways - that's just one I remember offhand.

Yeah but you consented to PVP by joining a PVP server.

Consenting to PVP is not consenting to being griefed.

How do you define "greifing"? A skilled player killing a less skilled player? A powerful player killing a less powerful player? Logging onto a character on a PVP server, farming mats, minding your own business, then suddenly getting ganked?

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=griefing+gaming

Akisohida

Goregrinder wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this topic, I'm seeing some responses that make me question if some of the people replying have ever played an open PVP game before.

In almost all of these games you cant just be "bullied" or "ganked" unless you have flagged yourself as wanting to PVP or you have attached another player. And I've never seen or heard of an open PVP game where you can kill in town. Games like WOW, AION ,Lineage 2 have safe zones like towns that prevent this behavior. Again, I'm not saying ESO needs this I just want to clarify what having this would likely imply.

Griefing was rampant in WoW and RIFT when I played them. It was very easy for someone to be flagged, and get between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged, for instance. There were many ways - that's just one I remember offhand.

Yeah but you consented to PVP by joining a PVP server.

Consenting to PVP is not consenting to being griefed.

How do you define "greifing"? A skilled player killing a less skilled player? A powerful player killing a less powerful player? Logging onto a character on a PVP server, farming mats, minding your own business, then suddenly getting ganked?

Greifing is taking any action with the express reason to ruin someone else's fun.

Killing someone low level in PvP is not greifing, even if they were too weak to fight back.
Killing someone low level repeatedly BECAUSE they cannot do anything to fight back IS GREIFING.

eso_lags

Lysette wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

So let me get this right, most of you who are against this option are just against seeing too many skill effects around you?

[Edit to remove bait]

No. I'm against this option because people would find ways to abuse it and interfere with others who just want to play in peace. Personal example of this behavior:

I just got off the game; I was in Riften. I have autodecline turned on. I opened my inventory to pull items to sell. A wonderfully "mature" individual started throwing mudballs, running in circles, and spamming one of the shiny sparkly aoes, throwing in some lightning for fun. I was still in my inventory, pulling items, and watching my character do the "omg, I'm covered in mud" animation of shaking arms and wiping down. When I exited the menu, I immediately got a duel request, which I declined. I started towards the bank, and was hit by a mudball every step of the way. This sterling example of why I loathe pvp tried again when I headed to the crafting stations, multiple mudballs so the animation kicked in, and another duel request.

I mean... what your describing is an item from a PVE event. You can’t assume all PvP players are bad and annoying because isolated experiences. If so, PVE community would be considered a lot more toxic than PvP from my experiences.

Well, they are already annoying by just wanting to bring their pvp in pve zones - to begin with. Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before. Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away - this is basically unavoidable and therefore those play styles shouldn't be mixed in the same region. It is already bad enough that there is PvE in PvP zones - we really don't need the reverse of it.

Comments like this make me laugh. Let me put this mildly so nothing gets removed. Because someone has to.

Once again, you didnt read the original post.

Are those players bad?- Depends, a good amount of those wanting it will be of the killer/griefer type (Bartle's typology), and those will cause issues, annoy people and will drive some people away

Clearly you didnt read it. Because if you did you wouldnt be making assumptions about players who would be in favor of something like this considering the proposed system was OPT IN. Clearly. Opt in as in you dont participate unless you want to.

Already this is quite annoying, especially because this was discussed in length and rejected many times before

🤣🤣 Who was it rejected by? Player rejections are meaningless. You are not the developer of this game, and they have the say of what will and will not end up in the game. And even the developer, probably, wouldnt try to stop people from posting about something they wish they would see in the game. What makes you think your opinion is worth more than someone else's? And what makes you think that it matters to anyone that you're annoyed by someone wishing something was in the game? Its not hurting anyone.

What ever happened to "if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything" ? If you're so annoyed by it why do you come onto these threads and post about it?

Ok, I read it very carefully -but you don't see that already the repeated request for a feature, which was discussed in length before and rejected is annoying in itself. And if you think that Opt in would help, it doesn't - because I would still see those players fighting in places, which are already a lag fest - like it is with the dueling system - it is incredibly annoying - opt in, but incredibly annoying.

And as far as my mention of the killer/griefer type is concerned, I used a typology of Richard Bartle, who was involved in the creation of MUDs in the 70s-90s (text-based multi-user RPGs) and studied player characteristics and types and their interdependence in these kind of games (which were basically smaller low tech versions of MMOs). The killer/griefer type is one of those 4 basic player types and common in games with PvP (around 30%), with the griefer variant to be very likely in games, where PvP is opt-in - so this is nothing I just pull out of thin air - this has been studied since decades and it just changed for the worse in those years - we really don't need to make the same mistake all over again.

Well, and if you want to know more about it being rejected - search for the justice system and discussions about it - it was intended once but then rejected by developers of course - they are the only ones, who can effectively reject it - look it up, if you want to know more, I won't do the work for you.

And why do I post about it?- Because I can, and are entitled to my opinion, it doesn't have to match yours in order to be allowed in this thread. And like I said above, already the pure mention of it as a new thread in this forum is annoying - and could as well be seen as baiting.

Thats a somewhat fair answer. Except for a few things. The justice system was not what this person posted, and ive never seen zos rejecting an opt in or flagging pvp system. Like ive said many times, they'll never do it because there is no incentive for them to do it, but I havent seen them reject it. And if you want to call repeat threads baiting i would say thats pretty damn authoritarian, out of touch, and some other things that I wont say so I dont get banned. Seriously calling something that you dont agree with baiting really makes me wonder 🙄. Plus it happens so many times every day.

And i asked why you would bother reading and posting about it if you found it so annoying that you would come in here and complain about it. You sure do have the right to post your opinion, and i have the right to ask why you would bother if you find it so annoying.

As far as richard bartle is concerned. I just dont care what someone from 30-50 years ago has to say about gaming in 2021. I dont. But from what you say it sounds like richard bartle would consider any person that enjoys pvp a "griefer". Which would also lead me to belive that he wasnt using greifer in the same way we use griefer today. its not the same as someone who just enjoys pvp. Griefing can be many things but fair pvp is not one of them. At least in the way that most people use the term today.

The answer with an opt in system is pretty plain and simple, if you dont want to be griefed or pvp then just dont flag on. Its so simple. But maybe you can explain to me how griefing would happen there.

If you consider people having fun where you have fun (therefore ruining your fun for some extremely strange reason) griefing, then idk what to tell you. I would just call that self centered and entitled. Like I said before, its the same thing I see from RPers not wanting people to duel in places where they RP. You dont own the game, sorry.

Sylvermynx

Griefing happens because unflagged people don't have any idea about the lengths to which griefers will go. The only way griefng will not happen is if the devs can enforce "no way to grief".

Personally.... I don't see the devs in this game being able to manage that. This game is.... riddled with stuff the devs can't fix already (almost all of which doesn't affect me at all, but you only have to read the forum to see what endgame pvp and pve are dealing with). I'm not sanguine about them being able to implement "opt in only" pvp in open world without a HUGE amount of.... bugs. Which will allow griefing of people who don't have any intention of pvp'ing in open world zones.

Goregrinder

Akisohida wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this topic, I'm seeing some responses that make me question if some of the people replying have ever played an open PVP game before.

In almost all of these games you cant just be "bullied" or "ganked" unless you have flagged yourself as wanting to PVP or you have attached another player. And I've never seen or heard of an open PVP game where you can kill in town. Games like WOW, AION ,Lineage 2 have safe zones like towns that prevent this behavior. Again, I'm not saying ESO needs this I just want to clarify what having this would likely imply.

Griefing was rampant in WoW and RIFT when I played them. It was very easy for someone to be flagged, and get between a person healing someone unflagged, thereby causing the healer to get flagged, for instance. There were many ways - that's just one I remember offhand.

Yeah but you consented to PVP by joining a PVP server.

Consenting to PVP is not consenting to being griefed.

How do you define "greifing"? A skilled player killing a less skilled player? A powerful player killing a less powerful player? Logging onto a character on a PVP server, farming mats, minding your own business, then suddenly getting ganked?

Greifing is taking any action with the express reason to ruin someone else's fun.

Killing someone low level in PvP is not greifing, even if they were too weak to fight back.
Killing someone low level repeatedly BECAUSE they cannot do anything to fight back IS GREIFING.

What if (hypothetically) my fun is to kill low levels repeatedly...by your definition if you were to ruin my fun, you would be greifing me.

eso_lags

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Griefing happens because unflagged people don't have any idea about the lengths to which griefers will go. The only way griefng will not happen is if the devs can enforce "no way to grief".

Personally.... I don't see the devs in this game being able to manage that. This game is.... riddled with stuff the devs can't fix already (almost all of which doesn't affect me at all, but you only have to read the forum to see what endgame pvp and pve are dealing with). I'm not sanguine about them being able to implement "opt in only" pvp in open world without a HUGE amount of.... bugs. Which will allow griefing of people who don't have any intention of pvp'ing in open world zones.

Idk, I just view things differently than a lot of you. If somethings in the game and you fail to understand how it works, thats on you. You cant blame other people for using it to their advantage.

But I dont think it really applies here. The only thing i can think of was when you could heal people in duels shortly after duels came to eso. It literally did nothing, and i think it was one or 2 skills. The only bad thing was it was basically cheating in a fair 1v1, and it was fixed a long time ago. So if it was the same system I cant imagine how it would be griefed.

I've played other mmos with griefing. Archeage, wow, classic wow, osrs. Corpse camping, skull tricking, killing people for nodes, killing people for spawns, killing people at dungeons, killing people at raids, finding ways to knock people off the cargo ship, that you couldnt be killed on, so they could be killed and you could take their trade packs.

Some of these games encourage this stuff, some of these games are pvp games, some of these games are pvp and pve games. Im not really sure when griefing isnt griefing if the game encourages it though. Point is that eso has nothing like this. I cant imagine what would be griefing in eso. Maybe following someone around and ganking them and bagging them countless times every day? but im not sure how you would do that unless they were streaming.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

We've had to edit or remove several posts for Baiting and non-constructive back and forth. If you think a post is baiting you do not engage with it and report it to the moderators to review. Additionally keep in mind, If this thread is prone to creating arguments it may be closed.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

cyclonus11

I think we could have a PVP mode for all zones similar to the Priest of Discord in EverQuest - just flag yourself PVP and you can go all in, anywhere.

Would be cool to also put keeps and stuff in the base overland zones for those who wish to participate.

(Would be weird to have to deal with aggro Covenant NPCs in Stonefalls, etc. if you're of that faction - maybe make them "yellow" non-aggro and make the player unable to accept faction quests in the zones while flagged?)

Bumped because this was locked and redirected here, which I take as permission to necro the thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/565316/pvp-for-overworld-maps#latest

JMadFour

No.

You want PVP, go to Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds and fight against people whose characters are built for PVP.

Stop begging ZOS to allow you to grief Carebears who have no interest in PVP and whose characters are not built for it.

There is absolutely no reason for Open World PVP in this game, there is an abundance of PVP Areas for you to engage with.