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Please make targeted heals unable to target players wearing "Ring of the Pale Order"
TheDarkRuler
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Since healers are the character type i play the most in dungeons I came to notice an annoyance recently that was brought into the game with the mythic "Ring of the Pale Order". When going into a Random Dungeon or even in 12-people-trials some DPS-maniacs tend to slot the ring to provide self-heal by themselves. Theoretically its ok if their heal is ok but what bothers me that a few heal spells (Regeneration, Strife, Rushed Ceremony, Lotus Flower and Spirit Mender will try to heal a wounded player even if being requipped with Pale Order Ring.
You might think "Ok, so what?". The issue i see with this is that some spells only have a limited amount of targets per cast and if you "waste" one target on an ally that cannnot be healed anyways the heal potencial goes down. In the worst case scenario i spam my heals but the beams all go to the wounded by unhealable Pale Order player while another wounded player doest receive my heals and dies.
My suggestion would be to exclude all players that wear this ring are unable to even receive the heals!
What do you think?
You might think "Ok, so what?". The issue i see with this is that some spells only have a limited amount of targets per cast and if you "waste" one target on an ally that cannnot be healed anyways the heal potencial goes down. In the worst case scenario i spam my heals but the beams all go to the wounded by unhealable Pale Order player while another wounded player doest receive my heals and dies.
My suggestion would be to exclude all players that wear this ring are unable to even receive the heals!
What do you think?
22
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stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭That ring is another nail in the coffin for the healer role. I'm all for flexibility and innovation, I even use that ring on a solo build, but I think it was a mistake to make it work when you are in a group. An evil way of discouraging its use would be to make active heals from a group member hurt you if you are wearing it. (No, I'm not saying I would want that. Just venting.)11 -
Aaxc✭✭✭Well, when going DLC dungeons with groupfinder, the chance of getting a really bad healer are really high.
Personally I had multiple ocasions where I had to swap to Pale just to be able to finish the dungeon.
So yeah, in 4man content (with a few exceptions) healers are fully absolete2 -
MKintr✭✭✭Don't dramatize everything. Healers have often the lowest incentives to create a good build. That ring helps to compensate this. Also it only gives healing for damage dealing. When you can't/don't deal damage for a moment, there are no heals.
But primarly that ring is a pay-to-win item needed to solo Vateshran hollows.0 -
soulferin✭✭✭I just want to ask here and I know we get used to it but why we need roles in mom? Distinction on heal/tank/dps is very old and it doesn't have to work this way. Just let it go if it's possible
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PaddyVu✭✭✭✭I'm a fake tank vet dlc dungeon all the times ( dps with a taunt ), i cant expect on healer because they all die and i have to use pale ring to heal myself.2 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭Don't dramatize everything. Healers have often the lowest incentives to create a good build. That ring helps to compensate this. Also it only gives healing for damage dealing. When you can't/don't deal damage for a moment, there are no heals.
But primarly that ring is a pay-to-win item needed to solo Vateshran hollows.
you dont get the point of OP. he is complaining about not beeing able to heal the wearer of said ring. Its literally even worse when there is no possibility for dmg output of the wearer, since he will drop, but OP cant heal him.5 -
MajorDavood✭✭✭I'm a healer too and that darn ring is frustrating. I agree with you, OP. If group members want to wear that ring, all of our heals should exclude them automatically. Nothing worse than wasting mag on someone who is self-healing with this ring.
Some of them won't even mention they are wearing that ring! I only discover the fact AFTER throwing buckets of heals at them with no impact while in combat. So great, now I have to exclude them while keeping the rest of the group upright.
I'm not for banning the ring. If someone wants to use it, more power to 'em. But healers shouldn't be penalized in wasted mag and heals as a result.
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TheDarkRuler✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is funny how the majority of the thread here tries to turn-around the argument by saying that healers are bad and the ring is needed to compensate bad healers.I'm a fake tank vet dlc dungeon all the times ( dps with a taunt ), i cant expect on healer because they all die and i have to use pale ring to heal myself.
Everytime i see a fake-role in vet content i report that player for false-flagging. Normal, ok even if not ok, but vet is a no-go.stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »That ring is another nail in the coffin for the healer role. I'm all for flexibility and innovation, I even use that ring on a solo build, but I think it was a mistake to make it work when you are in a group. An evil way of discouraging its use would be to make active heals from a group member hurt you if you are wearing it. (No, I'm not saying I would want that. Just venting.)
Was an idea of mine too but i think thats too harsh. Some dungeons might even benefit from having great solo-heals if you need to split (Aetherian Archive etc.)MajorDavood wrote: »I'm a healer too and that darn ring is frustrating. I agree with you, OP. If group members want to wear that ring, all of our heals should exclude them automatically. Nothing worse than wasting mag on someone who is self-healing with this ring.
Some of them won't even mention they are wearing that ring! I only discover the fact AFTER throwing buckets of heals at them with no impact while in combat. So great, now I have to exclude them while keeping the rest of the group upright.
I'm not for banning the ring. If someone wants to use it, more power to 'em. But healers shouldn't be penalized in wasted mag and heals as a result.
Perhaps a red light or some visual effect to show that the heal was returned should show up? What do you think?8 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I use AOE heals so it's not really affecting my healing build, but I can understand the frustration. That being said, The Ring of Pale order was a poorly thought out idea for the game. I can not fathom how the idea made it past the brainstorming stage of development without any pushback.
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Mythreindeer✭✭✭✭✭Ring of the Pale Order is one of those hugely op items that games always add later in the lifecycle to give players something to achieve and feel good about getting and using but in reality only makes for unmitigated power creep that only hastens the demise.6 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yikes, most the posts in this thread are missing the point. It's as if most people didn't even bother to read the post.
The problem isn't the Pale Order ring, but rather that heals don't take the Pale Order ring into account when selecting a target. If you cast Breath of Life, for example, you don't get to choose who gets the heal. The game chooses for you. And it's not taking into account whether or not someone has PO, so it might give that heal to someone who can't use it rather than someone who actually needs it.
Nonsensical targeting of heals is not a new problem, though. For example, if someone is affected by Trauma (aka, heal absorption, e.g., Soul Tear from Nahviintaas or Ghastly Wound from Grundwulf), heals like BoL don't take that effect into account, and people with the Trauma might not get the heals necessary to break through the effect.Edited by code65536 on January 18, 2021 12:05PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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TheDarkRuler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yikes, most the posts in this thread are missing the point. It's as if most people didn't even bother to read the post.
The problem isn't the Pale Order ring, but rather that heals don't take the Pale Order ring into account when selecting a target. If you cast Breath of Life, for example, you don't get to choose who gets the heal. The game chooses for you. And it's not taking into account whether or not someone has PO, so it might give that heal to someone who can't use it rather than someone who actually needs it.
Nonsensical targeting of heals is not a new problem, though. For example, if someone is affected by Trauma (aka, heal absorption, e.g., Soul Tear from Nahviintaas or Ghastly Wound from Grundwulf), heals like BoL don't take that effect into account, and people with the Trauma might not get the heals necessary to break through the effect.
Thanks for clarifying the issue. I wasnt 100% sure about how i wrote my post as english isnt my native language.5 -
NEMESIS_97✭✭✭I'm a fake tank vet dlc dungeon all the times ( dps with a taunt ), i cant expect on healer because they all die and i have to use pale ring to heal myself.
If you wear meta tank gear and keep uptimes of buffs/debuffs and chain..stack and cc ads for faster kill and do rest of tank must have things and add dps on top of that..fine..if no...kick/report and gfy...do your solo things and dont *** other runs0 -
NEMESIS_97✭✭✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »Since healers are the character type i play the most in dungeons I came to notice an annoyance recently that was brought into the game with the mythic "Ring of the Pale Order". When going into a Random Dungeon or even in 12-people-trials some DPS-maniacs tend to slot the ring to provide self-heal by themselves. Theoretically its ok if their heal is ok but what bothers me that a few heal spells (Regeneration, Strife, Rushed Ceremony, Lotus Flower and Spirit Mender will try to heal a wounded player even if being requipped with Pale Order Ring.
You might think "Ok, so what?". The issue i see with this is that some spells only have a limited amount of targets per cast and if you "waste" one target on an ally that cannnot be healed anyways the heal potencial goes down. In the worst case scenario i spam my heals but the beams all go to the wounded by unhealable Pale Order player while another wounded player doest receive my heals and dies.
My suggestion would be to exclude all players that wear this ring are unable to even receive the heals!
What do you think?
Or just insta kill ring users in group content...2 -
Shootsfoot✭✭✭Well, when going DLC dungeons with groupfinder, the chance of getting a really bad healer are really high.
Personally I had multiple ocasions where I had to swap to Pale just to be able to finish the dungeon.
So yeah, in 4man content (with a few exceptions) healers are fully absolete
So, just to be clear, healers in DLC are fully obsolete, yet you can't clear the DLC with a bad healer.
LOL...it's always the healer.Edited by Shootsfoot on January 18, 2021 1:17PM8 -
NEMESIS_97✭✭✭Where this game goes???proc sets to help noobs in pvp..ring of pale order to help again noobs in solo content..what next?boots of immunity?charged insta kill daggers?with every update this game becomes noob paradise0
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NEMESIS_97✭✭✭I use AOE heals so it's not really affecting my healing build, but I can understand the frustration. That being said, The Ring of Pale order was a poorly thought out idea for the game. I can not fathom how the idea made it past the brainstorming stage of development without any pushback.
Money let it trough...0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do people wear it in group content, anyway? I mean when there is a healer. It requires you to drop one of your 5 pc sets or a monster set, it's simply not practical.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
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NEMESIS_97✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Why do people wear it in group content, anyway? I mean when there is a healer. It requires you to drop one of your 5 pc sets or a monster set, it's simply not practical.
Potatos3 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Why do people wear it in group content, anyway? I mean when there is a healer. It requires you to drop one of your 5 pc sets or a monster set, it's simply not practical.
i had a noob-ish dd in vMGF the other day. while the heal with us was not very experienced and the other dd was a heavy attack build, the self proclaimed good dd kept dying. at some point i flipped on him telling him "Dont Touch the orb, i will do it myself" (tank), after seeing him die over and over again. lemme quote whisper conversation after dungeon.
him: "heal was stupid"
me: "u were wearing ring of pale order
"
me: "wait you removed it later"
me: "only last fight"
him: "with healer like ours it can be useful"
me: "i have cmx, i can see who i healed, u had pale order..."
me: "i healed the other dd 44k on gragoil boss, heal 96k"
me: "so"
me: "shrug"
me: "u died with pale order, while using orb... nobody could save u man"
him: "birds can, i forgot it" (he was sorc btw. yes. the class that can survive just fine with surge and without the ring. lol.)
me: "pale order can too"
me: "if you keep dots on the boss"
me: "but u didn't"
after this he conveniently run away from conversation. (i guess he tried to whisper me to prove he was a "good" player...)
what i was trying to say is. there are 2 types of players in dungeons. those that understand dungeons are group effort, and those that dont. those that dont, will run pale order. will never orb or drain even if asked. will do nothing other than taunting the boss. will rage at other players when *** goes wrong (that dd was a rager, he was raging about the other heavy attack dd from the beginning).
example:
me (dd): "heal can i request orbs and drain?"
heal: "you didnt die didnt you?"
me looking at the cmx of the over 2 minutes fight where he healed me for a total of 8k:
for those that do, it goes something like this:
me: "hey stamplar, i am staff staff brittle tank, can you use PoTL for minor breach?"
stamplar: "sure, give me a moment."
so to your question about why would people wear pale order? the answer is simple. cause they go in group content without expecting to act like a group.Edited by zvavi on January 18, 2021 2:10PM6 -
DT-ARR✭✭✭✭Pale order should have been vampire only given that half the kit blocks them from healing anyway.3
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pale order should have been vampire only given that half the kit blocks them from healing anyway.
Agreed, also smart healing should take into account vampires using Mistform, Blood Frenzy, and Blood for Blood since those 3 things stop all healing.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK3 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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Well said!what i was trying to say is. there are 2 types of players in dungeons. those that understand dungeons are group effort, and those that dont. those that dont, will run pale order. will never orb or drain even if asked. will do nothing other than taunting the boss. will rage at other players when *** goes wrong (that dd was a rager, he was raging about the other heavy attack dd from the beginning).
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be ideal if heals wouldn’t target those wearing the ring or stage 4 vampires and if the health bar was also grayed out or dimmed or something.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »It would be ideal if heals wouldn’t target those wearing the ring or stage 4 vampires and if the health bar was also grayed out or dimmed or something.
You can be healed while a stage 4 vampire. You can't be healed as a vampire 5 seconds after using Blood for Blood or while channeling Blood Frenzy and Mistform.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »It would be ideal if heals wouldn’t target those wearing the ring or stage 4 vampires and if the health bar was also grayed out or dimmed or something.
You can be healed while a stage 4 vampire. You can't be healed as a vampire 5 seconds after using Blood for Blood or while channeling Blood Frenzy and Mistform.
Good to know. Such a visual indicator would be helpful for such states, especially as one of them seems to make one liable to dropping low in health (or at least I’ve seen this happen) and so I try to burst heal. I’m not familiar with the specifics as I never play vampires, but when I asked someone I couldn’t heal in a dungeon whether they were wearing RotPO, they replied that they were a stage 4 vampire so I had in my mind that this meant impervious to heals.Edited by Araneae6537 on January 18, 2021 5:02PM0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Why do people wear it in group content, anyway? I mean when there is a healer. It requires you to drop one of your 5 pc sets or a monster set, it's simply not practical.
I'll give a perfect example of why people use this in group content. On Saturday I was pugging Vet Lair of Maarselok. We got to the tree boss and the healer literally couldn't even heal themselves. They couldn't stay alive. Now that is a fight that requires a fair amount of healing throughout. So as DPS, we had to either heal ourselves or keep picking up the healer repeatedly. And doing the latter still meant we were mostly healing ourselves. So, equipping Pale Order literally made up for a terrible healer who couldn't even manage to keep themselves alive.
And queuing for a new healer in a vet dlc dungeon takes a long time to wait for.
And as to it not being practical. Dying in a dungeon is not practical for DPS. If dropping a monster set means you won't die, you are doing more dps than you are dying because a terrible healer is unable to keep you or themselves alive.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should have added a condition check to to the targeting code for healing abilities that would ignore targets (other than self) that had the ring equipped. I don't know why they didn't. It's a glaring oversight that needs to be corrected as soon as possible.Edited by Jeremy on January 18, 2021 7:06PM2
