Maintenance for the week of January 12:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 12
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 12
Is it Time for Below 50 Dungeon Queues?
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No
But the suggestion would change a thing. It is not like Zos restricts the same players from running ahead if they are on a sub-50 toon. They will do what they want to regardless of the level of character they are on.spartaxoxo wrote: »People will naturally want to go through things as quickly and efficiently as possible because they have to do the random normals multiple times per day to get the transmute crystals they need for their gear.
If someone wants the group to slow down for their quest, they should communicate as such. Otherwise they should just learn how to sprint/roll dodge/heal/shield, two things they should be learning before entering dungeons anyway.
A lot of times when they encounter powerful high level characters they aren't mad, they are impressed. And sometimes will ask for build and game play advice so that their characters can get that strong. Others will just want to work out how to get that strong on their own and start researching guides.
I'm not buying this even the slighest. No one is impressed by toxic behavior, and you shouldn't be queuing into normals with the intention of 'impressing" other players.
If you want to show off, do it in vet. If anything, you if actually just wanted to get through the dungeon quickly, you should be happy to queue with players your own level and skill who are also looking to do that, and not low level characters who are there for completion and quests.
I do not think those that skip ahead are concerned about impression anyone. They have one interest, and only one interest, which is similar to most of us. They jsut want to clear their random dungeon or pledge dungeon and be done with it.
To that end, there is nothing that Zos can do to prevent this on the GF side of the equation. Players that skip ahead do not really care if they are on a max level toon or a sub-50 they are leveling. This is why the suggestion would only make queues take longer.1 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭Otherredspecter23 wrote: »RottingAlien wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »RottingAlien wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »ZOS needs to think harder about how to encourage experienced players to be good neighbours. FFXIV has a kudos system: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Player_Commendation
Gate mounts and transmutes behind that and you'd see a lot more mentoring.
Oh BTW. a friend of mine that didn't enjoy the low level dungeons because of all the elitism thats going in noob content is actually now playing FFXIV. so.. hu.. yeah, theres that
That system would actually be awesome.
Way better solution than "Newbs need to find themselves a group and not use queue" logic
If your friend found a good guild, they might still be playing ESO. You seem to have this idea that with enough rules and restrictions you can change human nature to suit your idea of queue perfection. Even if you did accomplish that, it would be perfect for you. You should have enough evidence already in this thread that your idea of what's right is not similar to what many other people want. Suggesting that because it's a change you want and everyone else should also want that is naive. People play the game differently. It would be impossible to design a queue system that allows for that sort of flexibility, however, when you form your own group, you remove the need for the system to design something you want. You have full control. Why expect a game system to be able to do that for you?
Tbh the poll shows that people clearly don't want below 50 queues. But that doesn't mean they are happy with the faking that's going on. Its a flawed poll and should have another option maybe.
The only thing i would expect is using the queue the way devs intended it to be used.
The queue clearly lets you know that you can't have 2 healers, or 2 tanks, or more than 2 DDs. everyone bypassing that is not doing it as it was intended.
If people used vote kick to deal with fake roles, then eventually, people would stop queueing as a fake role. I do my part and kick fake tanks even if I know we can win with them faking.
To be honest that only gives a reason for an Under 50 queue imo.
At no point in time do I want to queue and get a healer. But Under 50s do.
There are a very few bosses having a healing is useful for, and they are all in Veteran DLC dungeons, maybe even only Hard Modes of those.
Regarding healer ? That seems a solutions for you and maybe it´s better for you to have that "additional" dd with you - on my dd´s I don´t need that additional dd.
Leave healer´s alone and come to terms whith the fact, that even player´s over lvl 50 and max cp can do very well with a healer in their group and that is how it should be.
Playing together with a support or support roles. It eigther make you a worse or better player.
So ? What do you want ? All healers out of the game so you can speedrun norms ? In your answere it seems you want to be all over the place and support everything. Supporting the "vote kick" supporters don´t help any, because it don´t work that well. It works if you are three friends and you get a fake or a runner, but not if this fake or runner have a "friend" with them - we all know that. So why pull it up as a solution as it is working well, because it isn´t.
These fake and runners is having a real good laugh and can´t blame them
I'm not saying you can't do well with a healer, just that for a majority of dungeons having three "experienced" DDs just makes everything easier.
However this topic is also about the normal queue not vet. I would never fake queue on vet unless my initial group included a tank, and the other one of us went healer, so we got DDs.
On normal, anyone over 300 CP probably doesn't need a healer, maybe not a tank. So you can see why people do fake queue.
Does that mean a separate queue should be made? Maybe.
Would that negatively impact the system for both queues? More than likely.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Otherits not that I think its a bad idea... but rather that it will not help with the stated goal.
why you ask? leveling is pretty fast. leveling through dungeons - even faster. my characters, even without any xp boosts and even if queueing up for specific dungeons, tend to hit lvl 50 long before managing to get through all the dungeon quests.
not to mention - DLC dungeons are bad enough already, they can be REALLY bad with group of everyone under 50. speaking from experience.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Otherredspecter23 wrote: »RottingAlien wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »RottingAlien wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »ZOS needs to think harder about how to encourage experienced players to be good neighbours. FFXIV has a kudos system: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Player_Commendation
Gate mounts and transmutes behind that and you'd see a lot more mentoring.
Oh BTW. a friend of mine that didn't enjoy the low level dungeons because of all the elitism thats going in noob content is actually now playing FFXIV. so.. hu.. yeah, theres that
That system would actually be awesome.
Way better solution than "Newbs need to find themselves a group and not use queue" logic
If your friend found a good guild, they might still be playing ESO. You seem to have this idea that with enough rules and restrictions you can change human nature to suit your idea of queue perfection. Even if you did accomplish that, it would be perfect for you. You should have enough evidence already in this thread that your idea of what's right is not similar to what many other people want. Suggesting that because it's a change you want and everyone else should also want that is naive. People play the game differently. It would be impossible to design a queue system that allows for that sort of flexibility, however, when you form your own group, you remove the need for the system to design something you want. You have full control. Why expect a game system to be able to do that for you?
Tbh the poll shows that people clearly don't want below 50 queues. But that doesn't mean they are happy with the faking that's going on. Its a flawed poll and should have another option maybe.
The only thing i would expect is using the queue the way devs intended it to be used.
The queue clearly lets you know that you can't have 2 healers, or 2 tanks, or more than 2 DDs. everyone bypassing that is not doing it as it was intended.
If people used vote kick to deal with fake roles, then eventually, people would stop queueing as a fake role. I do my part and kick fake tanks even if I know we can win with them faking.
To be honest that only gives a reason for an Under 50 queue imo.
At no point in time do I want to queue and get a healer. But Under 50s do.
There are a very few bosses having a healing is useful for, and they are all in Veteran DLC dungeons, maybe even only Hard Modes of those.
Regarding healer ? That seems a solutions for you and maybe it´s better for you to have that "additional" dd with you - on my dd´s I don´t need that additional dd.
Leave healer´s alone and come to terms whith the fact, that even player´s over lvl 50 and max cp can do very well with a healer in their group and that is how it should be.
Playing together with a support or support roles. It eigther make you a worse or better player.
So ? What do you want ? All healers out of the game so you can speedrun norms ? In your answere it seems you want to be all over the place and support everything. Supporting the "vote kick" supporters don´t help any, because it don´t work that well. It works if you are three friends and you get a fake or a runner, but not if this fake or runner have a "friend" with them - we all know that. So why pull it up as a solution as it is working well, because it isn´t.
These fake and runners is having a real good laugh and can´t blame them
I'm not saying you can't do well with a healer, just that for a majority of dungeons having three "experienced" DDs just makes everything easier.
However this topic is also about the normal queue not vet. I would never fake queue on vet unless my initial group included a tank, and the other one of us went healer, so we got DDs.
On normal, anyone over 300 CP probably doesn't need a healer, maybe not a tank. So you can see why people do fake queue.
Does that mean a separate queue should be made? Maybe.
Would that negatively impact the system for both queues? More than likely.
probably. maybe. but from experience - not really. I've been in groups with higher CP people who most certainly and most definitely DID need a healer. mostly through their own overconfidence (and in couple of cases - realizing that they HAD a healer who could keep up - pulling more than they normally would because they could now)
but normal pugs do indeed need healers, even on normal. especially if its a DLC dungeon. but sometimes even in dungeons that even I can solo (slowly and carefully, but I can)dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Sheridan✭✭✭✭✭NoI miss the times before One Tamriel, when mobs had actual levels. And you could get the semblance of a story-mode by entering the dungeon with level 10 character.0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
The same fun in grinding sub 50 dungeons for CP point 723.
They just need a Story mode honestly.Edited by karekiz on December 30, 2020 12:00AM0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoNot every high-CP is all that good.
Not every good high-CP player is good on every one of their characters.
I agree there is a problem with more elite players abusing the system to walk right over people who actually need to do normals. I don't know what the solution is. But this isn't it.
(I do think that increasing the incentive to do random vets might help, though.)Edited by MasterSpatula on December 30, 2020 12:26AM"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle0 -
Faiza✭✭✭✭✭YesMasterSpatula wrote: »Not every high-CP is all that good.
Not every good high-CP player is good on every one of their characters.
I agree there is a problem with more elite players abusing the system to walk right over people who actually need to do normals. I don't know what the solution is. But this isn't it.
(I do think that increasing the incentive to do random vets might help, though.)
Why isn't it? There's below 50 Cyrodiil for the same reason. So low level players can do the content with other players at their same level.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoMasterSpatula wrote: »Not every high-CP is all that good.
Not every good high-CP player is good on every one of their characters.
I agree there is a problem with more elite players abusing the system to walk right over people who actually need to do normals. I don't know what the solution is. But this isn't it.
(I do think that increasing the incentive to do random vets might help, though.)
Why isn't it? There's below 50 Cyrodiil for the same reason. So low level players can do the content with other players at their same level.
The issue with below 50 Cyrodiil is the same issue that would occur in this proposed situation. It does create a separation, but not the desired separation. The desire is to split veteran zergers from slower casual players. Those same zergers can simply roll alts and twink them through Cyrodiil or dungeons.
There is some merit in the idea of creating a separation for new players, but that's where the focus needs to lie. Splitting it simply by level won't accomplish the required goal.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Noredspecter23 wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »Not every high-CP is all that good.
Not every good high-CP player is good on every one of their characters.
I agree there is a problem with more elite players abusing the system to walk right over people who actually need to do normals. I don't know what the solution is. But this isn't it.
(I do think that increasing the incentive to do random vets might help, though.)
Why isn't it? There's below 50 Cyrodiil for the same reason. So low level players can do the content with other players at their same level.
The issue with below 50 Cyrodiil is the same issue that would occur in this proposed situation. It does create a separation, but not the desired separation. The desire is to split veteran zergers from slower casual players. Those same zergers can simply roll alts and twink them through Cyrodiil or dungeons.
There is some merit in the idea of creating a separation for new players, but that's where the focus needs to lie. Splitting it simply by level won't accomplish the required goal.
Naturally. Is it that hard to understand that the idea will not bring the desired outcome, and only make queues longer? And if it won't make queues longer, than it will harm us somewhere else? (Looking at no modes choice in battlegrounds)Edited by zvavi on December 30, 2020 1:59AM2 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Noredspecter23 wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »Not every high-CP is all that good.
Not every good high-CP player is good on every one of their characters.
I agree there is a problem with more elite players abusing the system to walk right over people who actually need to do normals. I don't know what the solution is. But this isn't it.
(I do think that increasing the incentive to do random vets might help, though.)
Why isn't it? There's below 50 Cyrodiil for the same reason. So low level players can do the content with other players at their same level.
The issue with below 50 Cyrodiil is the same issue that would occur in this proposed situation. It does create a separation, but not the desired separation. The desire is to split veteran zergers from slower casual players. Those same zergers can simply roll alts and twink them through Cyrodiil or dungeons.
There is some merit in the idea of creating a separation for new players, but that's where the focus needs to lie. Splitting it simply by level won't accomplish the required goal.
Naturally. Is it that hard to understand that the idea will not being the desired outcome, and only make queues longer? And if it won't make queues longer, than it will harm us somewhere else? (Looking at no modes choice in battlegrounds)
That's a very good point. When we regained the ability to group queue in BG, it came at a cost in order to keep queue times minimal. I fully expect if any change is made to separate dungeon queues, it would come with some sort of similar penalty somewhere.0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherIt is a problem, but I don't think this is the correct solution, because save for alts, you might just get 4 people who might not know what they are doing, and I feel like that wouldn't be a good time either.
FFXIV has a mentor programme and that rarely goes well, too.
I think it is just the nature of an MMO to have some good people, some bad people. By and large, when I have gone PUG, it has been mostly fine. Being at CP963 helps me with that though, of that I have no doubt. I do take issue when they rush through if I have not done the quest though.
A story mode for dungeons would also not help people learn their roles very well if they had an NPC party if, for example, they wanted to group in the future. Again, FFXIV has the trust system for the more top level dungeons but not the lower ones.
It's a loaded question with no real solutions. Guilds can help if they are good guilds. Again, that is usually the exception and not the rule.
Maybe a starter/test dungeon for new players only that isn't any of the main dungeons? Like, a trial dungeon for new players to learn?Edited by JD2013 on December 30, 2020 1:07AMSweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
Kaartinen✭✭✭NoAll this will do is increase queue times.
If you do not know how to complete dungeons and need guidance, but are incapable or do not want to search a guide you can join a guild, use lfg, or make 3 friends.0 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtherVoted "Other"
I think we need a "Story mode" Dungeon for people who want to take it slow and chill.
Keep normal the rush infested mess it is today
Put in a DPS check to que for Vet - 20k on a dummy or you're not getting in.0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoYou just need to find like-minded players if you are interested in running the dungeons for storylines and to enjoy the quests. People who power through do so because they've run the dungeon a million times and there is no incentive to go through at a snails pace. It sucks for sure, but it is what happens when you que - you never know what you'll get. This is the reason why I never run new dungeons with randoms, I wait until my core group can get on so I can explore the dungeon and enjoy the storyline in peace.1 -
Dysprosium✭✭✭YesSo you would force low level players not to have mentors in dungeons?
I rarely see anyone mentoring in dungeons. Besides many people max CP+ are leveling new alts so they can still mentor them and are more likely to do the group content because they're after the skill point. They also won't be trying to speed run a pledge in that situation either.Edited by Dysprosium on December 30, 2020 3:22PM1