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· [IN PROGRESS] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – October 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
+810 CPs forgotten players?
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Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭New players get a flash of light when they level up....I get a oh just another level. W
🟥When will level progression matter again!
P.S 1300 cp wanting progressionEdited by Starlight_Whisper on December 29, 2020 7:59PM0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.
Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.
Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.
A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.
:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.
I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.
Sure but at least the solo games had difficulty settings. There actually was challenge to be found while questing.
The only content with difficulty settings in ESO is for the Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials.
The only challenging over world content are the World Bosses and Dolmens that often require a group to tackle. But nothing that makes pure solo play have any challenge.
That is where there is a difference in opinion. For many reasons some of the players are perfectly content with playing normal content. There are older players who don't have the reflexes to deal with super hard content; players with health issues that restrict their responses, and players who simply want to have fun, and don't see the point in memorizing all the moves for 2nd boss from the end of the dungeon. Saying they should be able to do everything just because they have high cp isn't realistic.
I get that but I still don’t see why players don’t get to have optional difficulty for some of the questing content.
Not everyone is the minority who simply can’t do the end game content.
Have a system in place that encourages people to try it instead of relegating it to a corner
I'd assume it's because it's very very likely that it is the vast majority who like it as is.. if so, it's not worth it for ZOS to invest in such a massive change
It's not fair to ingore players who still play the game after years. We just want progression to show our characters have evolved for our efforts.0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.
Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.
Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.
A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.
:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.
I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.
Sure but at least the solo games had difficulty settings. There actually was challenge to be found while questing.
The only content with difficulty settings in ESO is for the Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials.
The only challenging over world content are the World Bosses and Dolmens that often require a group to tackle. But nothing that makes pure solo play have any challenge.
That is where there is a difference in opinion. For many reasons some of the players are perfectly content with playing normal content. There are older players who don't have the reflexes to deal with super hard content; players with health issues that restrict their responses, and players who simply want to have fun, and don't see the point in memorizing all the moves for 2nd boss from the end of the dungeon. Saying they should be able to do everything just because they have high cp isn't realistic.
I get that but I still don’t see why players don’t get to have optional difficulty for some of the questing content.
Not everyone is the minority who simply can’t do the end game content.
Have a system in place that encourages people to try it instead of relegating it to a corner
I'd assume it's because it's very very likely that it is the vast majority who like it as is.. if so, it's not worth it for ZOS to invest in such a massive change
It's not fair to ingore players who still play the game after years. We just want progression to show our characters have evolved for our efforts.
You are not ignored, you get dungeons, trials, new quests and areas, and all the other stuff1 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭am I the only one more than a little nervous to find out how they eventually change the champion point system...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
I can understand what they mean. I don't consider CP to be vertical progression either. You hit CP 160 and you just kind of stagnate and fester. I would rather have 20-40 levels of meaningful level gain than 650 levels of barely doing anything leveling. Only game i have played where i would wait 10-20(CP) levels before doing anything with my points. Its like progression in snowdrift in a blizzard.As a max cp player well over 1000 cp+ (not sure exactly what my cp is) i think it would be better for the game as a whole to make max cp 160 but each cp point worth more so we dont lose any power, but more people can be competetive at an earlier stage.
Well, maybe all will be clear, when they finally, finally, FINALLY drop the CP rework on us
That makes no sense if max CP is 160 then how to you make each CP worth more after 160? Also a game with no more vertical progression is boring and worthless to me. I played since beta and was about walk away from this game because of CP. Literally the recent talks about a CP re-write are the only thing that kept me here paying for this game and that is true of many others I play with.
This game needs to start growing upwards again, it has become nothing more than a proc gear meta chaser. There is NO GROWTH and a game needs growth.
For all those saying they do not want to redo their gear well it does not matter whether it is from level advancement or some new proc gear introduced, everyone playing high end is still changing gear. IMO this whole proc gear thing is even worse than gear leveling.
I don't really understand why you said you like vertical progression, but not cp.
But it is vertical progression, although it could be better.
Did you know that cp used to provide up to 60% more resources at 3600 cp? They removed that.
Also, the perks that you get from putting points into trees are usually quite boring, those could be improved by a lot, but the base % improvements are fine, they could and should improve everything else around it.
But let's be real here, they won't, they will just nerf it and call it a day.
ESO doesn't really have vertical progression. You only get marginally stronger and when you divide that by total levels( 850) its not even a gently sloping hill of progression. Its more like a Florida beach.
Small correction about something i said before, cp USED to be vertical progression.
I was talking about CP since it was introduced not recently. It is the worse leveling system i have encountered in a game. If they are going to do something like CP then make skills most like a true TES game where you level up( but much slower) as you use them. I find the skill rank system to be another half done feature of this game. Another "its kind of like TES games but its not". Both systems are absolute half baked garbage. They need to stop trying to be a centerist game and appease everyone and commit to something.
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Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭am I the only one more than a little nervous to find out how they eventually change the champion point system...
I am a little bit too, though I'm more keeping my expectations really, really low.
I'm pretty sure the rework will be just a very minor tweak in numbers that won't really change much if the past is any indication.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do not know why people keep bringing up Microsoft as though they can make any decision about ESO when it is very clear, and reported by the news. that Microsft does not own Zenimax or any of its holdings and will not until later next year. Major corporations cannot just buy other corporations without going through government review processes and that does not happen overnight.
To the point of the game, Zos has put effort into veteran players. They created a brand new trial and a new single-player arena this year along with new vet DLC dungeons with an HM. Zos is also, likely, working on another new trial and other content.
Another investment Zos is making for veteran players is that they have started working on the CP revision but we can, and should hope, they will think through the revision or new system so it helps make the game easier to manage since the CP/No-CP aspects of the game do create some challenge as CP is increased.
Beyond that, I do not see the issue with finding a player that meets the level requirement being placed into a vet DLC dungeon. If anything, Zos invested in this area as well when they increased the level requirement for players to enter vet DLC dungeons. As such, Zos has separated players in the dungeons as OP seems to desire.
I don't really see the cp rework as an investment. In fact , I'd hazard a guess based on their previous track record that CP will be even less rewarding after the rework. They seem determined to make it as easy as possible for new/casual players to be on the same level as players who invested a ton of time at least as far as stats/abilities and stuff go. Obviously experience and knowledge is another matter.
I do not seem to understand how the "redesign" of CP would be less yet still make it easier for new and casual players. If it is less rewarding and makes our characters weaker it would also makes it more difficult for new players.
Personally, I am hoping for the entire game to be rebalanced to our current stage of power creep which in a sense would make our characters weaker. That would be a great investment for the long-term players. I assume that is something you would agree on.
Easier for them to be on the same level, by lessening the power gap between new and veteran players. Means they don't have to grind nearly as long or put in nearly as much time to be able to theoretically do the same content as veteran cp810+ players. It simply becomes a matter of learning the mechanics and grinding out the appropriate gear, challenges they already face now, as opposed to having to "put in your time" to level cp as well.
It is a huge assumption that Zos will be able to find a way to lessen the power gap. They have been trying for a few years and have succeeded only in widening it.
Further, CP has little to do with the enormous power gap we see at CP810. As such there is little Zos could do to diminish that power gap by revising CP. The combat system as a whole,d in addition to the emphasis on the LA vs any basic attack, is the core of the power gap.
One could put a top player in crafted gear and they would still out DPS an average player in BiS. Zos cannot change that by revising CP.
Don't remove weaving, just shift the damage from light attacks to abilities. That would satisfy everyone, because end game players are not nerfed, and low end players are buffed.
They are not gonna remove animation cancelling anyway thankfully, but they can shift the damage
I am not sure why you are suggesting such a nerf to basic attacks as they have always been an important part of the game. Nowhere in my post did I suggest the weaving of basic attacks was an issue, only that Zos' change to emphasize the LA widened the game.
Weaving basic attacks is not the issue. I used to lead a group of very casual players that managed to regularly make the weekly trial leaderboards back in 2014. Many of them took the time to learn to weave. Though the more important factor is they improved as players because they were getting more out of the game and were running with a group of players that were not judgemental.
In case the history of the game's design is the element that is lacking, basic attacks used to increase damage based on the time spend activating them. As such there was a time that weaving a medium attack was a preferred choice and one that is easier to do for both a casual player and a player experiencing lag. Zos reversed this in the first, or one of the first, updates where they stated they were working to raise the floor and lower the ceiling. As such my point is their design failed to achieve the intended goals.1 -
SupremeRissole✭✭✭✭SupremeRissole wrote: »As someone with over 1300 CP's, over the 6 ish years I've played the game I've spent thousands of dollars in the crown store. But there honestly isn't anything in there left for me to spend crowns on... apart from a cool costume if one comes around. Plus I don't spend nearly as much time on the gane as I used to.
So from a buisness standpoint, It makes more sense to invest in new players who have nothing from the store (e.g no cool mounts/alt characters yet) and have the addictive novelty of the game with so much content yet to complete.
It sucks for players like us, but I don't take it personally, the devs don't care about you or your opinion, they care about answering to investors and making sure the game stays afloat.
The sooner you realise it the happier you'll be.
I don't think that's completely true at all.
Afterall if you don't manage to retain your players it's also a lot of trouble.
Bringing in new players should be as important as retaining your old players.
True, but the vets are the ones who complain the most about things the devs arent willing or arent able to fix e.g. the lag, the bugs in trials etc.
It's been clear for the past few years ZOS has invested less into keeping vets happy and more into recruiting new players, lowering the ceiling whilst raising the floor, imperfect weapons, the list goes on0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SupremeRissole wrote: »SupremeRissole wrote: »As someone with over 1300 CP's, over the 6 ish years I've played the game I've spent thousands of dollars in the crown store. But there honestly isn't anything in there left for me to spend crowns on... apart from a cool costume if one comes around. Plus I don't spend nearly as much time on the gane as I used to.
So from a buisness standpoint, It makes more sense to invest in new players who have nothing from the store (e.g no cool mounts/alt characters yet) and have the addictive novelty of the game with so much content yet to complete.
It sucks for players like us, but I don't take it personally, the devs don't care about you or your opinion, they care about answering to investors and making sure the game stays afloat.
The sooner you realise it the happier you'll be.
I don't think that's completely true at all.
Afterall if you don't manage to retain your players it's also a lot of trouble.
Bringing in new players should be as important as retaining your old players.
True, but the vets are the ones who complain the most about things the devs arent willing or arent able to fix e.g. the lag, the bugs in trials etc.
It's been clear for the past few years ZOS has invested less into keeping vets happy and more into recruiting new players, lowering the ceiling whilst raising the floor, imperfect weapons, the list goes on
Well, if they can't keep the player for a longer time then they are gonna develop a bad reputation, andif that is what zos is doing, then i say it's pretty short sighted.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do not know why people keep bringing up Microsoft as though they can make any decision about ESO when it is very clear, and reported by the news. that Microsft does not own Zenimax or any of its holdings and will not until later next year. Major corporations cannot just buy other corporations without going through government review processes and that does not happen overnight.
To the point of the game, Zos has put effort into veteran players. They created a brand new trial and a new single-player arena this year along with new vet DLC dungeons with an HM. Zos is also, likely, working on another new trial and other content.
Another investment Zos is making for veteran players is that they have started working on the CP revision but we can, and should hope, they will think through the revision or new system so it helps make the game easier to manage since the CP/No-CP aspects of the game do create some challenge as CP is increased.
Beyond that, I do not see the issue with finding a player that meets the level requirement being placed into a vet DLC dungeon. If anything, Zos invested in this area as well when they increased the level requirement for players to enter vet DLC dungeons. As such, Zos has separated players in the dungeons as OP seems to desire.
I don't really see the cp rework as an investment. In fact , I'd hazard a guess based on their previous track record that CP will be even less rewarding after the rework. They seem determined to make it as easy as possible for new/casual players to be on the same level as players who invested a ton of time at least as far as stats/abilities and stuff go. Obviously experience and knowledge is another matter.
I do not seem to understand how the "redesign" of CP would be less yet still make it easier for new and casual players. If it is less rewarding and makes our characters weaker it would also makes it more difficult for new players.
Personally, I am hoping for the entire game to be rebalanced to our current stage of power creep which in a sense would make our characters weaker. That would be a great investment for the long-term players. I assume that is something you would agree on.
Easier for them to be on the same level, by lessening the power gap between new and veteran players. Means they don't have to grind nearly as long or put in nearly as much time to be able to theoretically do the same content as veteran cp810+ players. It simply becomes a matter of learning the mechanics and grinding out the appropriate gear, challenges they already face now, as opposed to having to "put in your time" to level cp as well.
It is a huge assumption that Zos will be able to find a way to lessen the power gap. They have been trying for a few years and have succeeded only in widening it.
Further, CP has little to do with the enormous power gap we see at CP810. As such there is little Zos could do to diminish that power gap by revising CP. The combat system as a whole,d in addition to the emphasis on the LA vs any basic attack, is the core of the power gap.
One could put a top player in crafted gear and they would still out DPS an average player in BiS. Zos cannot change that by revising CP.
Don't remove weaving, just shift the damage from light attacks to abilities. That would satisfy everyone, because end game players are not nerfed, and low end players are buffed.
They are not gonna remove animation cancelling anyway thankfully, but they can shift the damage
I am not sure why you are suggesting such a nerf to basic attacks as they have always been an important part of the game. Nowhere in my post did I suggest the weaving of basic attacks was an issue, only that Zos' change to emphasize the LA widened the game.
Weaving basic attacks is not the issue. I used to lead a group of very casual players that managed to regularly make the weekly trial leaderboards back in 2014. Many of them took the time to learn to weave. Though the more important factor is they improved as players because they were getting more out of the game and were running with a group of players that were not judgemental.
In case the history of the game's design is the element that is lacking, basic attacks used to increase damage based on the time spend activating them. As such there was a time that weaving a medium attack was a preferred choice and one that is easier to do for both a casual player and a player experiencing lag. Zos reversed this in the first, or one of the first, updates where they stated they were working to raise the floor and lower the ceiling. As such my point is their design failed to achieve the intended goals.
It was just a suggestion on how to find a middle ground.
This way you would certainly reduce the importance of light attack weaving while still making it a important part of the game, if they were to shift the damage from light attacks to abilities.0