+810 CPs forgotten players?

NEMESIS_97 · December 2020

Rukia541 wrote: »

I say NO to vertical progression. 810 is already huge for a new player, let's not have another WoW cuz I would never play the game again. Its fine how it is and why a lot of ppl play it in the first place. If you think an RPG needs endless "growth" instead of actual cool stuff like new abilities and effects then go play WoW that mindless forever grind is there waiting for you. Personally I find the idea of never ending catchup to be extremely cancerous and why I cannot stand most MMOs, not all of them need to be the same bs.

That crap always comes down to mandatory carrot chasing and dailies which will ruin any potential fun to be had. As it is now I can choose to do my dailies or not.. no big deal. If you go play WoW you will give up your life for daily and weekly chores, by all means, just don't ever expect to actually do anything you WANT to do. You want ESO to be like that? gtfo bruh

Its ok to get best things after time...if everything good you can get very fast..that is boring...to get to cp810 is pretty fast if you play game...have 17th chars..cp1092...done main quest once..only cwc zone cleared...switching mains so often and still get cp fast..imagine if i would play with my 1st char and not leveling 16...would be zillion cp atm....sad that zos not increasing usable cp with every major update like before...its very nice vertical progression where you get stronger and stronger in time not that you just power level char in 3-5 days and you get max lvl...that is uber boring

Sheezabeast · December 2020

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As a 1500+ CP player...I'd be happy with a unique shield that displayed next to my name or something signifying my game loyalty/time invested.

How come that cp should reflect time invested what about the people who have been here from the get go, yet have not farmed all those cp

Because if we go that route, there's no true way of tracking time invested. I've played since beta. Would we use my first achievement? Like hitting level 10? Or Slaughterfished? See, that wouldn't work for all players. For example, many, many, many roleplayers do not level their characters. But have had them for a long time. How would their time get measured? CP seems to be the most accurate way of clocking in-game play time for a memorial to player dedication.

Iccotak · December 2020

I will wait and see what revisions are going through balancing and the champion point system.

However, I have said this before - ESO has a bad habit of putting Veteran content in a corner and leaving a skill gap.

the overland experience coddles the players too much and doesn't encourage the player to learn how to actually play the game. They'll often quest until they're CP 400 and try veteran dungeons only to be woefully underprepared. Many people here have already had experiences with these players.

More needs to be done to bridge this gap, to encourage the player to get better - step outside a comfort zone. It's only because I got into dungeons that I actually got good, and honestly I'm glad I did. Dungeons and Trials are some of the best content the game has to offer.

Also ZOS markets an ongoing story for long term players yet they don't really integrate the Story into veteran content, instead catering only to one play-style. New or Casual.
They made a push to include the dungeons more in the "Year Long Story" but what that has done is create very hard side bosses who are lead-ups to a very easy Main Boss at the end of the year. It is a wildly inconsistent story gameplay experience.

Which is really shame because the quests are really well written, they have good plots, characters, epic buildups: yes epic buildups which are then completely killed by a stupid, disappointing face-roll easy boss fight - which just kills the whole quest atmosphere.

AcadianPaladin · December 2020

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As a 1500+ CP player...I'd be happy with a unique shield that displayed next to my name or something signifying my game loyalty/time invested.

How come that cp should reflect time invested what about the people who have been here from the get go, yet have not farmed all those cp

We already have a means of identifying those who have been playing since beta. That ugly little orange beta monkey pet. Whenever I see of those, I know the player's been here since beta.

I'm glad I waited till Tamriel 1 to start ESO - that monkey is too ugly for me. Lol.

Daemons_Bane · December 2020

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As a 1500+ CP player...I'd be happy with a unique shield that displayed next to my name or something signifying my game loyalty/time invested.

How come that cp should reflect time invested what about the people who have been here from the get go, yet have not farmed all those cp

How would their time get measured? CP seems to be the most accurate way of clocking in-game play time for a memorial to player dedication.

How about, getting radical here, time played.? Nothing shows it better imo

Shadow_CH · December 2020

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As a 1500+ CP player...I'd be happy with a unique shield that displayed next to my name or something signifying my game loyalty/time invested.

How come that cp should reflect time invested what about the people who have been here from the get go, yet have not farmed all those cp

We already have a means of identifying those who have been playing since beta. That ugly little orange beta monkey pet. Whenever I see of those, I know the player's been here since beta.

I'm glad I waited till Tamriel 1 to start ESO - that monkey is too ugly for me. Lol.

"You've been here since beta? Show me your Imgakin!!!"

But it won't tell you if the person played the game all the time or took a long break (like me, I play since Beta put took a year long break after the release of TG)

Sheezabeast · December 2020

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As a 1500+ CP player...I'd be happy with a unique shield that displayed next to my name or something signifying my game loyalty/time invested.

How come that cp should reflect time invested what about the people who have been here from the get go, yet have not farmed all those cp

How would their time get measured? CP seems to be the most accurate way of clocking in-game play time for a memorial to player dedication.

How about, getting radical here, time played.? Nothing shows it better imo

That is only limited to the device being played on. It does not include other computers you have played ESO on. I have owned 3 different laptops and 2 desktops since 2014, my time played would be horribly inaccurate. Given you are indeed talking about the command you type.

JKorr · December 2020

Sgrug wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.

Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.

Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.

A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.

:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.

I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.

Iccotak · December 2020

JKorr wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.

Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.

Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.

A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.

:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.

I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.

Sure but at least the solo games had difficulty settings. There actually was challenge to be found while questing.

The only content with difficulty settings in ESO is for the Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials.

The only challenging over world content are the World Bosses and Dolmens that often require a group to tackle. But nothing that makes pure solo play have any challenge.

x48rph · December 2020

idk wrote: »

I do not know why people keep bringing up Microsoft as though they can make any decision about ESO when it is very clear, and reported by the news. that Microsft does not own Zenimax or any of its holdings and will not until later next year. Major corporations cannot just buy other corporations without going through government review processes and that does not happen overnight.

To the point of the game, Zos has put effort into veteran players. They created a brand new trial and a new single-player arena this year along with new vet DLC dungeons with an HM. Zos is also, likely, working on another new trial and other content.

Another investment Zos is making for veteran players is that they have started working on the CP revision but we can, and should hope, they will think through the revision or new system so it helps make the game easier to manage since the CP/No-CP aspects of the game do create some challenge as CP is increased.

Beyond that, I do not see the issue with finding a player that meets the level requirement being placed into a vet DLC dungeon. If anything, Zos invested in this area as well when they increased the level requirement for players to enter vet DLC dungeons. As such, Zos has separated players in the dungeons as OP seems to desire.

I don't really see the cp rework as an investment. In fact , I'd hazard a guess based on their previous track record that CP will be even less rewarding after the rework. They seem determined to make it as easy as possible for new/casual players to be on the same level as players who invested a ton of time at least as far as stats/abilities and stuff go. Obviously experience and knowledge is another matter.

JKorr · December 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.

Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.

Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.

A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.

:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.

I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.

Sure but at least the solo games had difficulty settings. There actually was challenge to be found while questing.

The only content with difficulty settings in ESO is for the Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials.

The only challenging over world content are the World Bosses and Dolmens that often require a group to tackle. But nothing that makes pure solo play have any challenge.

That is where there is a difference in opinion. For many reasons some of the players are perfectly content with playing normal content. There are older players who don't have the reflexes to deal with super hard content; players with health issues that restrict their responses, and players who simply want to have fun, and don't see the point in memorizing all the moves for 2nd boss from the end of the dungeon. Saying they should be able to do everything just because they have high cp isn't realistic.

Calm_Fury · December 2020

idk wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Whatever happens we need gradual character progression over time, the CP freeze and constant nerfs just make setting new records impossible. Really hurts the competitive trials scene.

I don’t want power spike gimmicks like Thrassian, prebuff sets, or Simmering Frenzy, just let DPS increase by like 1% every 3-6 months (as the original CP system was designed to do).

The issue is CP has not been the major culprit behind the power creep to begin with. Zos and changes outside of CP have been the main drivers. It does not take Thrassians for Zos to increase our damage and sometimes we specifically ask for the increase, in a roundabout manner. Take the vMA damage staff as an example. Players noted that the destruction staff was nothing special since the WoE was not that good to start with. Zos answered by buffing the skill which in the end added to the increase in our power.

As a result, we really need something to reset the stage, and that something is rebalancing content which has not happened for trials since 2016 when Zos reworked the three craglorn trials in the wake of adding MoL. Except now it needs to happen with overland, dungeons, and trials.

Yes, it would mean all existing scores would not be comparable to anything after the change but it would be worth as much has become very trivial.

I would love a One Tamriel 2.0 that rebalanced everything.

But that is just a dream. I bet it is more likely to get a new ESO 2 game than having ZOS going back and changing old content.

It would be awesome not only to have those things rebalanced with the current state of the game, but have the same achievements the newer dungeons/trials have, for consistency.

Everest_Lionheart · December 2020

I’m all for raising both the floor and the ceiling of this game. Let the less experienced progress faster and let the highly experienced progress more. The most challenging content is inaccessible to a majority of the player base even if they are at max CP already. It’s unforgiving and leaves zero room for error.

I can see the other side of the argument that some of the titles, skins and completes are a badge of honour, however I think the average player needs to be able to have a chance at earning them in a way that doesn’t involve getting carried by an experienced team. These things are more fun to earn when you play with your friends and not every group of friends has superstar Support or DPS to be able to complete the really hard stuff.

Allowing for a higher ceiling and higher floor can only encourage people to try the harder stuff. I don’t see this as a problem at all.

Iccotak · December 2020

JKorr wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.

Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.

Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.

A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.

:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.

I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.

Sure but at least the solo games had difficulty settings. There actually was challenge to be found while questing.

The only content with difficulty settings in ESO is for the Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials.

The only challenging over world content are the World Bosses and Dolmens that often require a group to tackle. But nothing that makes pure solo play have any challenge.

That is where there is a difference in opinion. For many reasons some of the players are perfectly content with playing normal content. There are older players who don't have the reflexes to deal with super hard content; players with health issues that restrict their responses, and players who simply want to have fun, and don't see the point in memorizing all the moves for 2nd boss from the end of the dungeon. Saying they should be able to do everything just because they have high cp isn't realistic.

I get that but I still don’t see why players don’t get to have optional difficulty for some of the questing content.

Not everyone is the minority who simply can’t do the end game content.
Have a system in place that encourages people to try it instead of relegating it to a corner

Daemons_Bane · December 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.

Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.

Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.

A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.

:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.

I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.

Sure but at least the solo games had difficulty settings. There actually was challenge to be found while questing.

The only content with difficulty settings in ESO is for the Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials.

The only challenging over world content are the World Bosses and Dolmens that often require a group to tackle. But nothing that makes pure solo play have any challenge.

That is where there is a difference in opinion. For many reasons some of the players are perfectly content with playing normal content. There are older players who don't have the reflexes to deal with super hard content; players with health issues that restrict their responses, and players who simply want to have fun, and don't see the point in memorizing all the moves for 2nd boss from the end of the dungeon. Saying they should be able to do everything just because they have high cp isn't realistic.

I get that but I still don’t see why players don’t get to have optional difficulty for some of the questing content.

Not everyone is the minority who simply can’t do the end game content.
Have a system in place that encourages people to try it instead of relegating it to a corner

I'd assume it's because it's very very likely that it is the vast majority who like it as is.. if so, it's not worth it for ZOS to invest in such a massive change

trackdemon5512 · December 2020

@ThePlayer CP has been an issue for some time. For one it did lead to a power creep and builds that could basically infinitely sustain. With the right knowledge of sets and CP players built such sustain builds and now PVP is rife with them. Those builds not only led to PVP becoming a sustain slogfest but also the issues of too many server calculations being done because players could just pump out ability after ability without consequence.

CP also has led to an elitism where those under max are looked down upon in terms of running with groups for endgame content. Often when these max CP individuals enter a trial/dlc dungeon with lower CP players they immediately assume the group to be handicapped. As such the lower CPs don’t band together as much with the higher CPs and the population gets fractured. That fracture doesn’t help with retaining individuals who get bored with the game.

The GOOD NEWS is a CP System rework has been developed for the last few years and looks to be implemented with the next chapter this summer. What exactly that entails only the developers and class reps with their NDAs reportedly know. But it has been in the works for some time and is needed.

Personally I would not be surprised if the CP cap was lowered like in WOW and trees were completely redone. As it is now most CP loads for players are basically the same across the board with little if any variation.

Jeremy · December 2020

ThePlayer wrote: »

I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.

Yeah, I agree with the basic thrust of your post. A lot is riding on the new CP system (which is supposedly in the works). If they do a good job with it I believe this game has a lot of life left. If they drop the ball though this game will continue to bleed Veteran players. You have to keep giving players ways to keep developing their characters. Otherwise they are eventually going to get bored and go somewhere else.

idk · December 2020

x48rph wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not know why people keep bringing up Microsoft as though they can make any decision about ESO when it is very clear, and reported by the news. that Microsft does not own Zenimax or any of its holdings and will not until later next year. Major corporations cannot just buy other corporations without going through government review processes and that does not happen overnight.

To the point of the game, Zos has put effort into veteran players. They created a brand new trial and a new single-player arena this year along with new vet DLC dungeons with an HM. Zos is also, likely, working on another new trial and other content.

Another investment Zos is making for veteran players is that they have started working on the CP revision but we can, and should hope, they will think through the revision or new system so it helps make the game easier to manage since the CP/No-CP aspects of the game do create some challenge as CP is increased.

Beyond that, I do not see the issue with finding a player that meets the level requirement being placed into a vet DLC dungeon. If anything, Zos invested in this area as well when they increased the level requirement for players to enter vet DLC dungeons. As such, Zos has separated players in the dungeons as OP seems to desire.

I don't really see the cp rework as an investment. In fact , I'd hazard a guess based on their previous track record that CP will be even less rewarding after the rework. They seem determined to make it as easy as possible for new/casual players to be on the same level as players who invested a ton of time at least as far as stats/abilities and stuff go. Obviously experience and knowledge is another matter.

I do not seem to understand how the "redesign" of CP would be less yet still make it easier for new and casual players. If it is less rewarding and makes our characters weaker it would also makes it more difficult for new players.

Personally, I am hoping for the entire game to be rebalanced to our current stage of power creep which in a sense would make our characters weaker. That would be a great investment for the long-term players. I assume that is something you would agree on.

idk · December 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

I am writing this post because it seems to me that currently ZOS/Microsoft (or who is running this game now) focuses a lot on new players and casual players and very little or nothing on veteran players, that is, all those players who are at +1200 CPs now.
So my question is, will there be any developments for veteran players on ZOS? A character development that focus on CPs? (anyway the purpose of each rpg/mmo is to develop the character).
Besides this there is nothing that divides the quests and daily between veteran players and new players, i mean I often find players without experience in vet dlc dungeons ... this way of mixing everything (to make money) and adding everything without there is a purpose in the whole game doesn't seem very smart to me.
P.S. I don't mean by that that I love Korean-style grinding (i hate it), but here at ZOS there is a total block of everything.

Gosh it must be nice to have been born knowing all the mechanics and rotations to clear vet dungeons. I mean many lesser mortals start off with no experience and have to learn. Usually that means going into dungeons with no experience at first.

Its too bad ZOS doesn't set up special uber leet only servers so the elite players don't have to mix with us lesser, learn by doing, mortals. (Insert /sarcasm, if you want) I'm one of the mortals. Been playing since beta, have +1200 co, and have never touched a vet dungeon. I'd have no idea about anything because I've never done one before. The posts I've seen aren't concerned with character development, more like rabid competitiveness, bis gear, best rotations, nine thousand billion dps at least to do dungeons. That is development for a mom, but not *character* development.

A bit harsh, Veteran players also deserve consideration in this game by the Devs. The game honestly is much more focused for casual and new players than veterans and most of the new stuff and changes are also usually focused on casual and new players.

:shrug: Harsh? Maybe. However, so is automatically assuming that +1200 cp means the player should have done all the "end game" content and be extremely competent at veteran level. If the player doesn't enjoy doing the content or has other reasons they've never touched veteran dungeons, they could have a million cp and they'd still not know what they're supposed to be doing.

I believe there is a marked difference between the "veteran/hardcore" type of player and the general demographic for Elder Scrolls games. Many of the players have come from the single-player games. Exploration, quests, lore, and stories are more important than super-fast got to be the top of the leaderboard speed run perfect no death trials and pvp for these players. Some of whom are definitely not competitive teens who need to brag about how good they are. Unfortunately, this group might be larger than the hardcore/veteran players.

Sure but at least the solo games had difficulty settings. There actually was challenge to be found while questing.

The only content with difficulty settings in ESO is for the Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials.

The only challenging over world content are the World Bosses and Dolmens that often require a group to tackle. But nothing that makes pure solo play have any challenge.

That is where there is a difference in opinion. For many reasons some of the players are perfectly content with playing normal content. There are older players who don't have the reflexes to deal with super hard content; players with health issues that restrict their responses, and players who simply want to have fun, and don't see the point in memorizing all the moves for 2nd boss from the end of the dungeon. Saying they should be able to do everything just because they have high cp isn't realistic.

I get that but I still don’t see why players don’t get to have optional difficulty for some of the questing content.

Not everyone is the minority who simply can’t do the end game content.
Have a system in place that encourages people to try it instead of relegating it to a corner

It seems it is the minority that can do the end game content. It tends to be a very small percentage of players that can clear the newest trial on the most challenging setting by now. After being released for six months some trials have had a small percentage that had cleared them in HM. Heck, I doubt we have a majority of the active players that have cleared even vMoL HM by now, let alone some of the newer ones on HM.

x48rph · December 2020

idk wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not know why people keep bringing up Microsoft as though they can make any decision about ESO when it is very clear, and reported by the news. that Microsft does not own Zenimax or any of its holdings and will not until later next year. Major corporations cannot just buy other corporations without going through government review processes and that does not happen overnight.

To the point of the game, Zos has put effort into veteran players. They created a brand new trial and a new single-player arena this year along with new vet DLC dungeons with an HM. Zos is also, likely, working on another new trial and other content.

Another investment Zos is making for veteran players is that they have started working on the CP revision but we can, and should hope, they will think through the revision or new system so it helps make the game easier to manage since the CP/No-CP aspects of the game do create some challenge as CP is increased.

Beyond that, I do not see the issue with finding a player that meets the level requirement being placed into a vet DLC dungeon. If anything, Zos invested in this area as well when they increased the level requirement for players to enter vet DLC dungeons. As such, Zos has separated players in the dungeons as OP seems to desire.

I don't really see the cp rework as an investment. In fact , I'd hazard a guess based on their previous track record that CP will be even less rewarding after the rework. They seem determined to make it as easy as possible for new/casual players to be on the same level as players who invested a ton of time at least as far as stats/abilities and stuff go. Obviously experience and knowledge is another matter.

I do not seem to understand how the "redesign" of CP would be less yet still make it easier for new and casual players. If it is less rewarding and makes our characters weaker it would also makes it more difficult for new players.

Personally, I am hoping for the entire game to be rebalanced to our current stage of power creep which in a sense would make our characters weaker. That would be a great investment for the long-term players. I assume that is something you would agree on.

Easier for them to be on the same level, by lessening the power gap between new and veteran players. Means they don't have to grind nearly as long or put in nearly as much time to be able to theoretically do the same content as veteran cp810+ players. It simply becomes a matter of learning the mechanics and grinding out the appropriate gear, challenges they already face now, as opposed to having to "put in your time" to level cp as well.

idk · December 2020

x48rph wrote: »

idk wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not know why people keep bringing up Microsoft as though they can make any decision about ESO when it is very clear, and reported by the news. that Microsft does not own Zenimax or any of its holdings and will not until later next year. Major corporations cannot just buy other corporations without going through government review processes and that does not happen overnight.

To the point of the game, Zos has put effort into veteran players. They created a brand new trial and a new single-player arena this year along with new vet DLC dungeons with an HM. Zos is also, likely, working on another new trial and other content.

Another investment Zos is making for veteran players is that they have started working on the CP revision but we can, and should hope, they will think through the revision or new system so it helps make the game easier to manage since the CP/No-CP aspects of the game do create some challenge as CP is increased.

Beyond that, I do not see the issue with finding a player that meets the level requirement being placed into a vet DLC dungeon. If anything, Zos invested in this area as well when they increased the level requirement for players to enter vet DLC dungeons. As such, Zos has separated players in the dungeons as OP seems to desire.

I don't really see the cp rework as an investment. In fact , I'd hazard a guess based on their previous track record that CP will be even less rewarding after the rework. They seem determined to make it as easy as possible for new/casual players to be on the same level as players who invested a ton of time at least as far as stats/abilities and stuff go. Obviously experience and knowledge is another matter.

I do not seem to understand how the "redesign" of CP would be less yet still make it easier for new and casual players. If it is less rewarding and makes our characters weaker it would also makes it more difficult for new players.

Personally, I am hoping for the entire game to be rebalanced to our current stage of power creep which in a sense would make our characters weaker. That would be a great investment for the long-term players. I assume that is something you would agree on.

Easier for them to be on the same level, by lessening the power gap between new and veteran players. Means they don't have to grind nearly as long or put in nearly as much time to be able to theoretically do the same content as veteran cp810+ players. It simply becomes a matter of learning the mechanics and grinding out the appropriate gear, challenges they already face now, as opposed to having to "put in your time" to level cp as well.

It is a huge assumption that Zos will be able to find a way to lessen the power gap. They have been trying for a few years and have succeeded only in widening it.

Further, CP has little to do with the enormous power gap we see at CP810. As such there is little Zos could do to diminish that power gap by revising CP. The combat system as a whole,d in addition to the emphasis on the LA vs any basic attack, is the core of the power gap.

One could put a top player in crafted gear and they would still out DPS an average player in BiS. Zos cannot change that by revising CP.

Kram8ion · December 2020

Nearly hitting 1500cp myself I don’t want my cp over 810 to mean nothing maybe using cp points to purchase exclusive mounts, sieges and the like
I don’t want it waisted on a silly titles either

JinMori · December 2020

Sgrug wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

As a max cp player well over 1000 cp+ (not sure exactly what my cp is) i think it would be better for the game as a whole to make max cp 160 but each cp point worth more so we dont lose any power, but more people can be competetive at an earlier stage.

Well, maybe all will be clear, when they finally, finally, FINALLY drop the CP rework on us

That makes no sense if max CP is 160 then how to you make each CP worth more after 160? Also a game with no more vertical progression is boring and worthless to me. I played since beta and was about walk away from this game because of CP. Literally the recent talks about a CP re-write are the only thing that kept me here paying for this game and that is true of many others I play with.

This game needs to start growing upwards again, it has become nothing more than a proc gear meta chaser. There is NO GROWTH and a game needs growth.

For all those saying they do not want to redo their gear well it does not matter whether it is from level advancement or some new proc gear introduced, everyone playing high end is still changing gear. IMO this whole proc gear thing is even worse than gear leveling.

I don't really understand why you said you like vertical progression, but not cp.

I like vertical progression, i find a game with only horizontal progression to be boring, but honestly, that rework to me at the moment only spells trouble seeing how they deal with things in this game.

What they need to do to make this actually enjoyable is to improve on what cp has build, and instead increase the difficulty of the content through a scaling mechanism like mythic +, so everyone gets to eat cake from the lowest common denominator to the best player in the game. That would also remove power creep, at least in pve content.

But honestly, i think they will just nerf cp and call it a day.

JinMori · December 2020

idk wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

idk wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not know why people keep bringing up Microsoft as though they can make any decision about ESO when it is very clear, and reported by the news. that Microsft does not own Zenimax or any of its holdings and will not until later next year. Major corporations cannot just buy other corporations without going through government review processes and that does not happen overnight.

To the point of the game, Zos has put effort into veteran players. They created a brand new trial and a new single-player arena this year along with new vet DLC dungeons with an HM. Zos is also, likely, working on another new trial and other content.

Another investment Zos is making for veteran players is that they have started working on the CP revision but we can, and should hope, they will think through the revision or new system so it helps make the game easier to manage since the CP/No-CP aspects of the game do create some challenge as CP is increased.

Beyond that, I do not see the issue with finding a player that meets the level requirement being placed into a vet DLC dungeon. If anything, Zos invested in this area as well when they increased the level requirement for players to enter vet DLC dungeons. As such, Zos has separated players in the dungeons as OP seems to desire.

I don't really see the cp rework as an investment. In fact , I'd hazard a guess based on their previous track record that CP will be even less rewarding after the rework. They seem determined to make it as easy as possible for new/casual players to be on the same level as players who invested a ton of time at least as far as stats/abilities and stuff go. Obviously experience and knowledge is another matter.

I do not seem to understand how the "redesign" of CP would be less yet still make it easier for new and casual players. If it is less rewarding and makes our characters weaker it would also makes it more difficult for new players.

Personally, I am hoping for the entire game to be rebalanced to our current stage of power creep which in a sense would make our characters weaker. That would be a great investment for the long-term players. I assume that is something you would agree on.

Easier for them to be on the same level, by lessening the power gap between new and veteran players. Means they don't have to grind nearly as long or put in nearly as much time to be able to theoretically do the same content as veteran cp810+ players. It simply becomes a matter of learning the mechanics and grinding out the appropriate gear, challenges they already face now, as opposed to having to "put in your time" to level cp as well.

It is a huge assumption that Zos will be able to find a way to lessen the power gap. They have been trying for a few years and have succeeded only in widening it.

Further, CP has little to do with the enormous power gap we see at CP810. As such there is little Zos could do to diminish that power gap by revising CP. The combat system as a whole,d in addition to the emphasis on the LA vs any basic attack, is the core of the power gap.

One could put a top player in crafted gear and they would still out DPS an average player in BiS. Zos cannot change that by revising CP.

Don't remove weaving, just shift the damage from light attacks to abilities. That would satisfy everyone, because end game players are not nerfed, and low end players are buffed.

They are not gonna remove animation cancelling anyway thankfully, but they can shift the damage

SupremeRissole · December 2020

As someone with over 1300 CP's, over the 6 ish years I've played the game I've spent thousands of dollars in the crown store. But there honestly isn't anything in there left for me to spend crowns on... apart from a cool costume if one comes around. Plus I don't spend nearly as much time on the gane as I used to.
So from a buisness standpoint, It makes more sense to invest in new players who have nothing from the store (e.g no cool mounts/alt characters yet) and have the addictive novelty of the game with so much content yet to complete.
It sucks for players like us, but I don't take it personally, the devs don't care about you or your opinion, they care about answering to investors and making sure the game stays afloat.
The sooner you realise it the happier you'll be.

JinMori · December 2020

SupremeRissole wrote: »

As someone with over 1300 CP's, over the 6 ish years I've played the game I've spent thousands of dollars in the crown store. But there honestly isn't anything in there left for me to spend crowns on... apart from a cool costume if one comes around. Plus I don't spend nearly as much time on the gane as I used to.
So from a buisness standpoint, It makes more sense to invest in new players who have nothing from the store (e.g no cool mounts/alt characters yet) and have the addictive novelty of the game with so much content yet to complete.
It sucks for players like us, but I don't take it personally, the devs don't care about you or your opinion, they care about answering to investors and making sure the game stays afloat.
The sooner you realise it the happier you'll be.

I don't think that's completely true at all.

Afterall if you don't manage to retain your players it's also a lot of trouble.

Bringing in new players should be as important as retaining your old players.

Anotherone773 · December 2020

JinMori wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

As a max cp player well over 1000 cp+ (not sure exactly what my cp is) i think it would be better for the game as a whole to make max cp 160 but each cp point worth more so we dont lose any power, but more people can be competetive at an earlier stage.

Well, maybe all will be clear, when they finally, finally, FINALLY drop the CP rework on us

That makes no sense if max CP is 160 then how to you make each CP worth more after 160? Also a game with no more vertical progression is boring and worthless to me. I played since beta and was about walk away from this game because of CP. Literally the recent talks about a CP re-write are the only thing that kept me here paying for this game and that is true of many others I play with.

This game needs to start growing upwards again, it has become nothing more than a proc gear meta chaser. There is NO GROWTH and a game needs growth.

For all those saying they do not want to redo their gear well it does not matter whether it is from level advancement or some new proc gear introduced, everyone playing high end is still changing gear. IMO this whole proc gear thing is even worse than gear leveling.

I don't really understand why you said you like vertical progression, but not cp.

I can understand what they mean. I don't consider CP to be vertical progression either. You hit CP 160 and you just kind of stagnate and fester. I would rather have 20-40 levels of meaningful level gain than 650 levels of barely doing anything leveling. Only game i have played where i would wait 10-20(CP) levels before doing anything with my points. Its like progression in snowdrift in a blizzard.

JinMori · December 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

As a max cp player well over 1000 cp+ (not sure exactly what my cp is) i think it would be better for the game as a whole to make max cp 160 but each cp point worth more so we dont lose any power, but more people can be competetive at an earlier stage.

Well, maybe all will be clear, when they finally, finally, FINALLY drop the CP rework on us

That makes no sense if max CP is 160 then how to you make each CP worth more after 160? Also a game with no more vertical progression is boring and worthless to me. I played since beta and was about walk away from this game because of CP. Literally the recent talks about a CP re-write are the only thing that kept me here paying for this game and that is true of many others I play with.

This game needs to start growing upwards again, it has become nothing more than a proc gear meta chaser. There is NO GROWTH and a game needs growth.

For all those saying they do not want to redo their gear well it does not matter whether it is from level advancement or some new proc gear introduced, everyone playing high end is still changing gear. IMO this whole proc gear thing is even worse than gear leveling.

I don't really understand why you said you like vertical progression, but not cp.

I can understand what they mean. I don't consider CP to be vertical progression either. You hit CP 160 and you just kind of stagnate and fester. I would rather have 20-40 levels of meaningful level gain than 650 levels of barely doing anything leveling. Only game i have played where i would wait 10-20(CP) levels before doing anything with my points. Its like progression in snowdrift in a blizzard.

But it is vertical progression, although it could be better.

Did you know that cp used to provide up to 60% more resources at 3600 cp? They removed that.

Also, the perks that you get from putting points into trees are usually quite boring, those could be improved by a lot, but the base % improvements are fine, they could and should improve everything else around it.

But let's be real here, they won't, they will just nerf it and call it a day.

Anotherone773 · December 2020

JinMori wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

As a max cp player well over 1000 cp+ (not sure exactly what my cp is) i think it would be better for the game as a whole to make max cp 160 but each cp point worth more so we dont lose any power, but more people can be competetive at an earlier stage.

Well, maybe all will be clear, when they finally, finally, FINALLY drop the CP rework on us

That makes no sense if max CP is 160 then how to you make each CP worth more after 160? Also a game with no more vertical progression is boring and worthless to me. I played since beta and was about walk away from this game because of CP. Literally the recent talks about a CP re-write are the only thing that kept me here paying for this game and that is true of many others I play with.

This game needs to start growing upwards again, it has become nothing more than a proc gear meta chaser. There is NO GROWTH and a game needs growth.

For all those saying they do not want to redo their gear well it does not matter whether it is from level advancement or some new proc gear introduced, everyone playing high end is still changing gear. IMO this whole proc gear thing is even worse than gear leveling.

I don't really understand why you said you like vertical progression, but not cp.

I can understand what they mean. I don't consider CP to be vertical progression either. You hit CP 160 and you just kind of stagnate and fester. I would rather have 20-40 levels of meaningful level gain than 650 levels of barely doing anything leveling. Only game i have played where i would wait 10-20(CP) levels before doing anything with my points. Its like progression in snowdrift in a blizzard.

But it is vertical progression, although it could be better.

Did you know that cp used to provide up to 60% more resources at 3600 cp? They removed that.

Also, the perks that you get from putting points into trees are usually quite boring, those could be improved by a lot, but the base % improvements are fine, they could and should improve everything else around it.

But let's be real here, they won't, they will just nerf it and call it a day.

ESO doesn't really have vertical progression. You only get marginally stronger and when you divide that by total levels( 850) its not even a gently sloping hill of progression. Its more like a Florida beach.

JinMori · December 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

As a max cp player well over 1000 cp+ (not sure exactly what my cp is) i think it would be better for the game as a whole to make max cp 160 but each cp point worth more so we dont lose any power, but more people can be competetive at an earlier stage.

Well, maybe all will be clear, when they finally, finally, FINALLY drop the CP rework on us

That makes no sense if max CP is 160 then how to you make each CP worth more after 160? Also a game with no more vertical progression is boring and worthless to me. I played since beta and was about walk away from this game because of CP. Literally the recent talks about a CP re-write are the only thing that kept me here paying for this game and that is true of many others I play with.

This game needs to start growing upwards again, it has become nothing more than a proc gear meta chaser. There is NO GROWTH and a game needs growth.

For all those saying they do not want to redo their gear well it does not matter whether it is from level advancement or some new proc gear introduced, everyone playing high end is still changing gear. IMO this whole proc gear thing is even worse than gear leveling.

I don't really understand why you said you like vertical progression, but not cp.

I can understand what they mean. I don't consider CP to be vertical progression either. You hit CP 160 and you just kind of stagnate and fester. I would rather have 20-40 levels of meaningful level gain than 650 levels of barely doing anything leveling. Only game i have played where i would wait 10-20(CP) levels before doing anything with my points. Its like progression in snowdrift in a blizzard.

But it is vertical progression, although it could be better.

Did you know that cp used to provide up to 60% more resources at 3600 cp? They removed that.

Also, the perks that you get from putting points into trees are usually quite boring, those could be improved by a lot, but the base % improvements are fine, they could and should improve everything else around it.

But let's be real here, they won't, they will just nerf it and call it a day.

ESO doesn't really have vertical progression. You only get marginally stronger and when you divide that by total levels( 850) its not even a gently sloping hill of progression. Its more like a Florida beach.

Small correction about something i said before, cp USED to be vertical progression.

Small correction but makes all the difference, since they locked cp to 810, there is no real progression, they usually try to keep sets to about the same power level, so at this point we are in a situation where we trade some power for other power. Hardly satisfying.

And honestly, the good thing about cp is that you get it from doing whatever, the core idea is really good, because you can do anything you want, and still increase you cp level, which means it's not necessarily a grind, because you get them just by playing the game normally, you can make it a grind, but it's not required,.