Either ban the use of TTC/MM outside of guilds, or allow everyone to sell things on the traders.

S_Tanner · December 2020

@MerguezMan
People are convoluting the issue with nonsense on purpose to derail the issue because they cannot accept I am correct.

I'll make this really simple I will link each sentence together:

MM and TTC read guild trader data and prices (Regardless of what they are) that information can only be posted by guild members.

Until that information is posted by guild members, there is nothing being bought

Because there is nothing being bought, people saying prices are determined by low/high is impossible

it's impossible because it has to be posted for sale first.

Because guild members are the only ones that can post anything for sale, that means people who are not in a guild have no say in the price

Because people not in a guild have no say in the price, then TTC and MM is not getting that data on top of what the guild members do

If TTC and MM are only getting guild data, that means both it is impossible for TTC and MM to be accurate

And as such anyone not in a guild cannot have TTC and MM prices being applied to tehm because they had no say in the pricing, but also because they are not in a guild.

Basically TTC and MM right now are guild only pricing tools and as such they would only apply to people in guilds nowhere else.

In order for TTC and MM to be legitimate and valid outside of a guild, you have to allow all people to post things for sale on guild traders because both TTC and MM would be reading everyone's data not just what guild members do.

hafgood · December 2020

No one has ever said you can put stuff up for sale on a guild trader unless you are a member of that guild.

No one.

Not one of us.

However, anyone can join a guild and can then sell through that guild if it has a trader.

People sell stuff outside of the guild trader system all the time, and the seller snd purchaser agree on a price. The seller may want to seel more than that on guild traders, the buyer will want to buy for less. Eventually a price will be agreed on.

When new items are listed on guild traders the person is guessing the value. There is nothing stopping someone selling the same new item through zone chat. The prices may be similar, they may be mikes apart.

Oh and BTW there is no such thing in this game as a level 1 character. So that shows just how little you understand this game

VaranisArano · December 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

After reviewing all OP's comments I get it.

The story is most likely:
OP tried to scam new players, by trying to sell something in zone chat for extreme, by no means accurate, price. Someone quickly warned new players about his intent to scam by posting accurate price data. OP is salty for his scam ending in failure and forum is the most seeked asylum by salty players.

The kinder view is that he's new enough to the game to just have posted a discussion informing ZOS that people are trading in game gold for crowns.

If I'd been a newer player who tried selling or buying stuff at a, shall we say, uninformed price and got mistaken for a scammer, well, I'd probably have a negative opinion too.

My experience was the opposite. A guildie sent back my columbine and suggested I get MM because while it was selling for 400 gold each, I was selling it for 20 gold each...

Scardan · December 2020

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

This is the guy who didn't know you could buy Crowns with gold and made a post about it.

You cant buy crowns with a gold. You buy "item" that costs crowns with gold from other player.

VaranisArano · December 2020

Scardan wrote: »

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

This is the guy who didn't know you could buy Crowns with gold and made a post about it.

You cant buy crowns with a gold. You buy "item" that costs crowns with gold from other player.

Yeah, that's technically what you do. And its allowed. They thought it wasn't, or shouldn't be.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555905/attention-zos-staff

zvavi · December 2020

Recent wrote: »

I agree with you OP
We should not be forced to join trading guilds to sell our wares..we should have a better ststem, an ingame trading hiuse NOT run by humans. I'd rather pay eso gold than some scammy guild.

I loathe the eso guild system with a passion. Players getting rich off of unsuspecting people....it's exploitation and it's sad that the masses can't see it. I'm not surprised...it's exactly like the real world. You can't escape the real world even in a freaking fantasy game....

lol. the real scammers are the ones spamming zone chats for low prices and then sell high in guild stores. nothing stops you from selling in zone. i was doing that for a while before i had a guild with a trader. thing is, i had to sell for lower so it actually gets sold. mm and ttc are information. @op wants people to not spread information, to make gold of unsuspecting people, and you are agreeing to him, with the words that players should not get rich of unsuspecting people. :slow clap:

colossalvoids · December 2020

After reading all the discussion I can't tell if op is trolling or being actually that delusional, anyway all i gathered that this forum is 100% false arguments if you not agree with some nonsense, that's rich.

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

MerguezMan
People are convoluting the issue with nonsense on purpose to derail the issue because they cannot accept I am correct.

I'll make this really simple I will link each sentence together:

MM and TTC read guild trader data and prices (Regardless of what they are) that information can only be posted by guild members.

Until that information is posted by guild members, there is nothing being bought

Because there is nothing being bought, people saying prices are determined by low/high is impossible

it's impossible because it has to be posted for sale first.

Because guild members are the only ones that can post anything for sale, that means people who are not in a guild have no say in the price

Because people not in a guild have no say in the price, then TTC and MM is not getting that data on top of what the guild members do

If TTC and MM are only getting guild data, that means both it is impossible for TTC and MM to be accurate

And as such anyone not in a guild cannot have TTC and MM prices being applied to tehm because they had no say in the pricing, but also because they are not in a guild.

Basically TTC and MM right now are guild only pricing tools and as such they would only apply to people in guilds nowhere else.

In order for TTC and MM to be legitimate and valid outside of a guild, you have to allow all people to post things for sale on guild traders because both TTC and MM would be reading everyone's data not just what guild members do.

Not everyone sells from guild traders. Individuals in zone chat set their own individual prices.

Everyone can buy from guild traders.

So if you are the seller, MM/TTC data is relevant to the buyer so they can evaluate how much the item costs if they go look at buying from guild traders instead of buying from you.

If you are the buyer, then MM/TTC data is relevant to the seller, because again, they can figure out how much they would make selling in their guild store instead of selling to you.

Its information that informs buyers and sellers whether they'll get a better deal working with you vs checking out guild traders.

RodneyRegis · December 2020

Slightly off-topic, but probably some avid MM/ATT users here.

Why is my MM only picking up a fraction of my sales? Do I need it running on evey character? I end to just put it on my trader/farmer alt as I don't want it using up resources on PVP/trial characters. Maybe 1 in 20 sales is picked up.

S_Tanner · December 2020

OK I''ll make this very very simple because 99% of you failed on all ends to grasp a simple concept so here it is.

1. TTC and MM cannot be used in ZONE chat for any reason because both get their data from GUILD traders only which automatically makes them GUILD pricing tools, not zone chat pricing tools.

2. Zone chat isn't trader chat, it's zone chat, therefore anything guild related does not belong.

3. Anyone that isn't allowed to be involved in the pricing of an item when it first comes out by putting the item on the trader themselves does not get to have anything guild trader wise applied to them when they are not at a guild trader.

4. Someone not in a guild has to use guild chat to sell something, and usually anyone that tries that has A-holes using TTC and or MM to interfere with that by undermining that person's price with what guilds do, and that *** needs to stop

If non-guild members cannot post on guild traders, then stop using guild trader prices on them out in zone chat interfering their ability to sell things how they want (If people want guild prices, they will go to a guild trader) They don't need you bringing guild prices to them..Anyone that posts that *** needs to be suspended, and further violators need to be banned. NO one has any business linking anything TTC and MM related in zone chat to anyone who cannot post things on a guild trader.

zvavi · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

People are convoluting the issue with nonsense on purpose to derail the issue because they cannot accept I am correct.

I'll make this really simple I will link each sentence together:

MM and TTC read guild trader data and prices (Regardless of what they are) that information can only be posted by guild members.

wrong. mm reads guild sales, and ttc reads data of anyone posting on ttc. you can literally post in ttc, and people will mail you about the item you are selling.

S_Tanner wrote: »

Until that information is posted by guild members, there is nothing being bought

wrong, information is posted by sellers and buyers, anyone with an addon, most serious traders have these addons, and therefore make the information available for everyone. before mm and ttc people would go around searching for prices manually. i still do so when i cant find something for the price i want.

S_Tanner wrote: »

Because there is nothing being bought, people saying prices are determined by low/high is impossible

but things are being bought. daily. in high quantities. if prices are too high, things will not get bought (because everyone can buy!), and price will go down.

S_Tanner wrote: »

it's impossible because it has to be posted for sale first.

no... you can buy something without it being posted in mm or ttc.

S_Tanner wrote: »

Because guild members are the only ones that can post anything for sale, that means people who are not in a guild have no say in the price

they do. they are the buyers. if buyers dont buy, prices will go down, because sellers, over 20,000 people, want to make gold, not waste it on listings.

S_Tanner wrote: »

Because people not in a guild have no say in the price, then TTC and MM is not getting that data on top of what the guild members do

ignoring the fact that no guildies affect prices because they are the demand, therefore affecting price by not buying it if it is too pricey.

S_Tanner wrote: »

If TTC and MM are only getting guild data, that means both it is impossible for TTC and MM to be accurate

they dont need to be accurate, they need to give information about the price you can find the items in guild traders.

S_Tanner wrote: »

And as such anyone not in a guild cannot have TTC and MM prices being applied to tehm because they had no say in the pricing, but also because they are not in a guild.

you do have a say in the pricing. u can sell, higher, or lower/same trader price that people can find in guild traders. the former is called scamming. you have a say in the pricing. if people dont want to buy from zone for prices that are higher than trader prices, it is their choice, they are the customer, not you. if i want to sell a potato for 1 million, nobody will buy it. nobody. why? because the buyer doesnt want to buy it for that price.

S_Tanner wrote: »

Basically TTC and MM right now are guild only pricing tools and as such they would only apply to people in guilds nowhere else.

they are affecting all buyers. because all buyers can use guild stores. therefore it affects market price of sellers that sell in zone chat.

S_Tanner wrote: »

In order for TTC and MM to be legitimate and valid outside of a guild, you have to allow all people to post things for sale on guild traders because both TTC and MM would be reading everyone's data not just what guild members do.

as mentioned in many posts already, it is already possible to post in ttc, even without a guild trader.

Wolfkeks · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Again please be respectful of people's opinions.

Thank you!

S_Tanner wrote: »

See this is the backwards argument people in the game love to use and it's completely false.

S_Tanner wrote: »

Wrong!

S_Tanner wrote: »

Again that is 100% false. My argument is 100% correct, the problem here is that people keep ignoring key fundamental statements and words that are required to be in their replies to me in order for what they say to be accurate

S_Tanner wrote: »

That is 100% false.

S_Tanner wrote: »

People are convoluting the issue with nonsense on purpose to derail the issue because they cannot accept I am correct.

Pro-Tip, if you want to have a healthy discussion about any topic in general, do not belittle othes for thinking differently on the topic.

While I do not agree with banning MM/ATT, I would like to see an aution house where everyone had the chance to sell and buy their goods. I think that would also the issue you talked about in your first post.

S_Tanner · December 2020

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Pro-Tip, if you want to have a healthy discussion about any topic in general, do not belittle others for thinking differently on the topic.

Pro-tip, when citing something, do not remove context and things leading up to replies and making it look like someone is doing something they aren't

DarcyMardin · December 2020

Just curious — are there really a lot of players who are not in at least one guild? I’ve been mostly a solo player since the beginning of this game, but that hasn’t stopped me from joining guilds. At the very least, you need guilds with enough people online for free wayshrining around the landscape. Preferably one that’s big enough to have a guildhall with all the set crafting stations for doing master writs. Even if I don’t do much in the way of grouping up or Discord chatting, I’ll happily buy raffle tickets or pay a weekly fee just for the other perks of being in a guild.

Unless your guilds are tiny, they’ll have a guild store for selling to other members. Your stuff might take longer to sell than it would take if you had a trader in a prime location, and you might even price it lower because you’re selling only to guildies, but you *can* sell. And you can buy anywhere.

Personally, I’d prefer a system-wide auction house to the current network of guild traders, but that subject has been discussed to death over the years, and it’s pretty clear that nothing is going to change in that respect. Given that the system is what the system is, I’m glad we have the add-ons. I wouldn’t buy from some random seller in zone chat anyway — I’d be afraid of getting scammed.

Wolfkeks · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Pro-Tip, if you want to have a healthy discussion about any topic in general, do not belittle others for thinking differently on the topic.

Pro-tip, when citing something, do not remove context and things leading up to replies and making it look like someone is doing something they aren't

Pro-tip, when citing someone do not remove context just to bring your point across that everyone missunderstands you while the person you citing partially agress with you and even gives and idea how to fix your issue and just wishes to have a healthy conversation which is appently not possible.

S_Tanner · December 2020

Ok people still aren't getting ti so let me simplify it even further.

Until everyone is allowed to post on the guild trader then both, MM and TTC are not valid, and do not apply to anyone not in a guild, and when that person is not at a guild trader.

People can't use guild traders to sell, then no one gets to use TTC and MM on those players. Especially in Zone chat.

The problem isn't MM and TTC, the problem is people forcing TTC and MM onto people where and when it doesn't belong.

zvavi · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

OK I''ll make this very very simple because 99% of you failed on all ends to grasp a simple concept so here it is.

1. TTC and MM cannot be used in ZONE chat for any reason because both get their data from GUILD traders only which automatically makes them GUILD pricing tools, not zone chat pricing tools.

2. Zone chat isn't trader chat, it's zone chat, therefore anything guild related does not belong.

3. Anyone that isn't allowed to be involved in the pricing of an item when it first comes out by putting the item on the trader themselves does not get to have anything guild trader wise applied to them when they are not at a guild trader.

4. Someone not in a guild has to use guild chat to sell something, and usually anyone that tries that has A-holes using TTC and or MM to interfere with that by undermining that person's price with what guilds do, and that *** needs to stop

If non-guild members cannot post on guild traders, then stop using guild trader prices on them out in zone chat interfering their ability to sell things how they want (If people want guild prices, they will go to a guild trader) They don't need you bringing guild prices to them..Anyone that posts that *** needs to be suspended, and further violators need to be banned. NO one has any business linking anything TTC and MM related in zone chat to anyone who cannot post things on a guild trader.

i will put it real simple for you.
1. TTC and MM are information about guild store market, which affects all buyers which in return affects all sellers
2. if zone chat is not trader chat, dont post trades in it.
3. everyone are allowed to participate in pricings but dont expect people to buy it overpriced
4. you are literally admitting scamming unknowing players for higher prices in zone chat. if i try selling mother's sorrow inferno staff (that price fell cause of the new set system) for 80k, i am trying to scam people, because they can buy it from cheap (30k) easily in guild stores. so i am the scammer. i am the A-hole. and i should be called out on it because nobody should be scammed.

mm and ttc are information for buyers not sellers. because the prices affect all buyers. demanding to stop spreading that information to buyers so you can scam them for their ignorance is exactly creating a "mini monopoly" that you argued against (in previous posts). let the market be free. buyers are allowed to know what they can pay for the items sold.

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

OK I''ll make this very very simple because 99% of you failed on all ends to grasp a simple concept so here it is.

1. TTC and MM cannot be used in ZONE chat for any reason because both get their data from GUILD traders only which automatically makes them GUILD pricing tools, not zone chat pricing tools.

2. Zone chat isn't trader chat, it's zone chat, therefore anything guild related does not belong.

3. Anyone that isn't allowed to be involved in the pricing of an item when it first comes out by putting the item on the trader themselves does not get to have anything guild trader wise applied to them when they are not at a guild trader.

4. Someone not in a guild has to use guild chat to sell something, and usually anyone that tries that has A-holes using TTC and or MM to interfere with that by undermining that person's price with what guilds do, and that *** needs to stop

If non-guild members cannot post on guild traders, then stop using guild trader prices on them out in zone chat interfering their ability to sell things how they want (If people want guild prices, they will go to a guild trader) They don't need you bringing guild prices to them..Anyone that posts that *** needs to be suspended, and further violators need to be banned. NO one has any business linking anything TTC and MM related in zone chat because only guild members can post things for sale on the guild traders

1. Everyone buying stuff from zone chat can also buy stuff from guild traders. So posting the price they can expect when looking at guild traders is actually relevant.

2. There is no separate trade chat. So zone chat becomes a defacto trade chat, which includes debates over whether you'll get a better deal buying from a zone chat seller or from guild traders.

3. Everyone can buy from guild traders even without being a member or ever having sold that item. So the prices at a guild trader are always relevant as an option for players who are buying goods.

4. I understand the frustration. Its like a car salesman trying to sell a car for a certain price, and then someone else swans in with "yes, but have you seen the deal your competitor is offering on the exact same car?"

Everyone can buy from guild traders.

So when you sell in zone chat, you are still competing with the prices offered by guild traders.

So if I show up in zone chat going "WTS [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 100k" while guild traders are selling the [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 20k, then someone in zone chat may point out that all players can get a much better deal by checking out guild traders.

Because while I don't have to join a guild to sell, everyone can go to a guild trader to buy. No one has to buy from me, especially if I'm overcharging.

zvavi · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok people still aren't getting ti so let me simplify it even further.

Until everyone is allowed to post on the guild trader then both, MM and TTC are not valid, and do not apply to anyone not in a guild, and when that person is not at a guild trader.

People can't use guild traders to sell, then no one gets to use TTC and MM on those players. Especially in Zone chat.

The problem isn't MM and TTC, the problem is people forcing TTC and MM onto people where and when it doesn't belong.

no, you arent getting it. nobody is forcing ttc and mm prices on you. you can still ignore them and sell for higher. but buyers are allowed to know what they can pay for the items sold.

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok people still aren't getting ti so let me simplify it even further.

Until everyone is allowed to post on the guild trader then both, MM and TTC are not valid, and do not apply to anyone not in a guild, and when that person is not at a guild trader.

People can't use guild traders to sell, then no one gets to use TTC and MM on those players. Especially in Zone chat.

The problem isn't MM and TTC, the problem is people forcing TTC and MM onto people where and when it doesn't belong.

Let's simplify the counterpoint.

Everyone can buy from guild traders, regardless of guild membership or their personal input into MM/TTC data. Therefore, the guild trader prices are always relevant because its the other option for player buyers than buying from zone chat.

S_Tanner · December 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

1. Everyone buying stuff from zone chat can also buy stuff from guild traders. So posting the price they can expect when looking at guild traders is actually relevant

Buying is irrelevant unless everyone can SELL then your entire statement is invalid.

Someone choosing to be at the guild trader cannot be used to ignore people like you PUSHING TTC and MM onto people in zone chat that cannot put stuff on the trader for sale.

You don't get to push guild trader prices onto others that cannot post their own stuff on guild traders, especially in Zone chat where TTC and MM have no business being used at all.

You don't get to have a one sided statement of fact

Scardan · December 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

This is the guy who didn't know you could buy Crowns with gold and made a post about it.

You cant buy crowns with a gold. You buy "item" that costs crowns with gold from other player.

Yeah, that's technically what you do. And its allowed. They thought it wasn't, or shouldn't be.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555905/attention-zos-staff

I see. Thanks

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

1. Everyone buying stuff from zone chat can also buy stuff from guild traders. So posting the price they can expect when looking at guild traders is actually relevant

Buying is irrelevant unless everyone can SELL then your entire statement is invalid.

Someone choosing to be at the guild trader cannot be used to ignore people like you PUSHING TTC and MM onto people in zone chat that cannot put stuff on the trader for sale.

You don't get to push guild trader prices onto others that cannot post their own stuff on guild traders, especially in Zone chat where TTC and MM have no business being used at all.

You don't get to have a one sided statement of fact

There are guild traders all over. Everyone in game can travel to a major city and find five or six guild traders to buy from in a matter of seconds. It takes minutes to look for a bargain if you are picky about prices.

Therefore, the MM/TTC prices are always relevant. You don't get to make a one sided offer in zone chat, as though your buyers have no other options.

For example:

"WTS [Opal Fancy Helmet] for 100k!"

"Hey, if you go to a guild trader, you can buy [Opal Fancy Helmet] for around 20k!"

"That's a one sided statement of fact!"

"No, its an alternate option available to everyone."

S_Tanner · December 2020

As far as this goes I foudn this extremely interesting

VaranisArano wrote: »

So if I show up in zone chat going "WTS [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 100k" while guild traders are selling the [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 20k, then someone in zone chat may point out that all players can get a much better deal by checking out guild traders.

Except none of you apply that backwards, example if someone posted an item for 2k in zone chat that was 25k in guild trader...I find it very, very interesting how not one of you use MM and TTC to link the higher price.
Yet everyone is real quick to link MM and TTC, when someone post something for 100k that is listed in the guild trader for 50k.....now why is that?

You're all a bunch of hypocrites

Stay out of zone chat with TTC and MM.
[/quote]

S_Tanner · December 2020

Edit

Czekoludek · December 2020

Tryxus · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Please respect everyone's opinion and don't attack anyone.

S_Tanner wrote: »

You're all a bunch of hypocrites

Hämähäkki · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

You're all a bunch of hypocrites

Stay out of zone chat with TTC and MM.

Nairinhe · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

As far as this goes I foudn this extremely interesting

VaranisArano wrote: »

So if I show up in zone chat going "WTS [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 100k" while guild traders are selling the [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 20k, then someone in zone chat may point out that all players can get a much better deal by checking out guild traders.

Except none of you apply that backwards, example if someone posted an item for 2k in zone chat none of you use MM and TTC to link the higher price yet you you're real quick to link MM and TTC when someone post something higher.....now why is that?

You're all a bunch of hypocrites

Stay out of zone chat with TTC and MM.

That is 100% wrong

There were many stories about ppl buying underpriced items, sending seller the difference and informing them about the right prices. Even in this thread, I think, but someone reads only what they want to read.

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

As far as this goes I foudn this extremely interesting

VaranisArano wrote: »

So if I show up in zone chat going "WTS [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 100k" while guild traders are selling the [Opal page of the fancy helmet] for 20k, then someone in zone chat may point out that all players can get a much better deal by checking out guild traders.

Except none of you apply that backwards, example if someone posted an item for 2k in zone chat none of you use MM and TTC to link the higher price yet you you're real quick to link MM and TTC when someone post something higher.....now why is that?

You're all a bunch of hypocrites

Stay out of zone chat with TTC and MM.

I dunno. I gave you an earlier example where a guildmate of mine informed me that Columbine was worth 400g when I was selling it for 20 gold each. I try to pay it forward.

Sure, there are players who will take advantage of people underselling in zone chat. I won't deny it.

And I gotta admit, I tend to assume you did your research about the general price of what you are selling. When I assume you did your research, it makes "WtS [Opal fancy helmet] for 100k" look like a deliberate scam against players who don't know the price on guild traders, when its selling on guild traders for 20k. And it makes "WTS [Opal Fancy Helmet] for 2k look like the price set by someone who wants a really, really quick sale.

Personally, as someone who once bought a gold minotaur motif book for 50 gold and sent it back to my guildie to check their price, I'd at least double check that you knew the going price for your [Opal fancy helmet] before I bought it for 2k.